Primal Optimist Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 Where are we now? ~ Just an opener for a discussion The general feeling I have from Canucks Fans online and live in person carries the same tone as this lovely David Bowie tune. Where exactly are we now, in a Post Sedin Canuckscape? I don't believe its a sad song of longing so much as a song of hope and renewal and yes my "...fingers are crossed just in case...." Cap space, and draft picks and youth, Oh mY! When it comes to hope for the future the Canucks have absolutely lined the bunker with supplies and fresh water, which tells me that management for a few years now was prepping like the hairiest southern swamp gal the Outdoor Life Network could talk into appearing on film. At least six young guys will be pushing to enter the room for the start of next season, (Motte, Demko, Dahlen, Lind, Goldobin, Juolevi, Pettersson) and 17 players returning under contract and just 52 million of the cap spent for next year, the Cap Runneth Over for Trevor Linden and Jim Benning, begging the questions about free agency that are sure to pop up. Will we come out swinging for some top FA Talent this Canada Day or stay to the path of young, economical, system grown, players? The Canucks have an envious pick in each of the first three rounds as well, and in fact own all of theiir own draft picks for the coming years with the exception of this summer's fourth rounder. A great place to be at when a team has also got a flush thick wallet available and most of its HR fleshed out. Cap Space, Draft Picks and Youth are almost new territory for this club. Having been a fan from the late 70's through to this very moment and, with continued good health, for many years to come. I witnessed the tumultuous early years, the high highs and low lows that brought us '82 and '94 runs and not much other success right through to the end of the horrible Mark Messier captaincy era and into the Golden Years of Marcus Naslund and fellow Swedes and co-heirs to his fiefdom, Henrik and Daniel. Here today, I suspect, we see for the first time in the teams history a young talented team with lots of upside and the ability to quickly insert top end talent via the draft and FA and again at the deadline. The thing the twins did for us best was manage our expectations and land the plane, so to speak, without any of us along for the ride realizing there was a very real chance that catastrophe would happen mid flight. The rebuild that was never admitted to is almost three quarters finished and this club is poised to complete its rebrand/rebuild by the time February rolls around this coming season. Cap: with 17 players under contract, the Canucks have committed almost 52 million so far for next season and are in the top six for available cap space heading into the off season. I haven't much to say here except that with a full slate of draft picks and our cupboards stocked up with young talent, see the two paragraphs below, our cap situation is superb. FA and the deadline will be exciting times for Canucks Fans and if the team is close, and I believe it is, to being a competent suitor for playoff glory, I bet we will see one or two top calibre editions to round out the edges. Draft: Drafting 7th, 37th and 68th overall this year means someone special is about to enter the system and then right after that guy, two more highly capable young players. If the club is finally confident in its drafting, and there is no reason yet to question the last several years worth of Canucks Draft Picks, then it makes sense to keep your picks and draft draft draft to fill the funnel that leads to Rogers Arena. I am more confident now in our scouting than at any point in the history of the team. Now your going to say 1999 ... but that was an all or nothing gamble that thankfully paid off. Just one double cross in the first overall team picking slightly differently and 19 years of club history never happened. Suffice to say we have some incredible players coming up and we have some incredible picks coming to us. The Talent and youthful aspect this will infuse into the club pretty much right away, or a year away, will be game changing. Youth: The average age of the forwards on the roster already for next year is 25.89 years old. That is without a Pettersson, age 19...without a Goldobin, age 22, and without Lind, age 19. On Defense, we enjoy a core that aside from 32 year old Edler on his final year of a deal is currently sub 30 and average a mere 28 years of age with several younger guys coming in, Juolevi among them. I am not saying every young gun in the system will play on the ice next year, but in the next 18 months it is within reason that these and perhaps the top 7 selection in this coming draft will be Canucks and that is very close to rebuilt very soon after the Twins retirement. The heavy lifting was done before most fans realized we moved. Our current netminding situation while not incredible and superstar in nature, is also far more valuable than the net cost, no pun intended. for about 6m we have acapable, 28 year old tandem between the pipes and young Thatcher Demko in the wings. I am not concerned about our netminding and frankly it is refreshing not to have 6 million or more sittiing on one temperamental goalie, star or not. Well superfans, It is early on a Saturday Morning and I need a second cup of coffee. This isn't my best work, but in my defense I have been distracted for over half a decade with Fantasy Hockey over in another section of CDC. It has opened my eyes a fair bit to the sport we all love and widened my perspective beyond that of a mere Canucks Homer. The important part of this thread is yet to come, the important part is YOUR thoughts on just where are we now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Money Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 Where are we now? I'll let Bowie answer his own question... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris12345 Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 Great question. Hard to answer as there can be many variables in play very quickly. This won't be popular but I think the Canucks are being set up nicely to be a pretender for the next decade and do a lot of nothing for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primal Optimist Posted May 19, 2018 Author Share Posted May 19, 2018 I never want to come down too hard on the leaders on the ice from any era, except Mark Messier, what a Mess, but I feel the five long years has been the last five, and we have been really patient as a fanbase. 2011 was awesome and in the dying minutes of that run an eye opener, almost every moment since then I have felt the team needed to move on in a polite and appreciative way from the makeup of that 2011 team. A team, one may argue, that was built to be runner up. I am not here to debate that though. I am just responding mostly to Chris12345 above here, when I say I think we were collectively pretending from the start of the 11-12 season that we could get there again and have a better result with our top guys from the 2011 run. For me, as much as I love Hank and Dank and they are absolute allstars and Hall Ready, for me the pretending is about to come to an end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 Cheers P.O. I don't really think a franchise has much flexibility unless/until it has that push of young talent from within, and enough of it, to give a management group the volume of ELCs and RFAs to boster their qualty Iideally young) depth that really enables them to build competitively. Some teams are at stages where they don't necessarily need that push, but teams on the build, or however you want to put it. like this one, need that rethinged prospect pool. That's not to say they need a cookie cutter volumes of picks approach - but they need to scout, trade, draft and develop well enough to be sustainable. That said, I think the Canucks are rapidly approaching the point where they have the volume of youth to deal from somewhat of a position of strength where it matters. And I think they have the devlopment and coaching to ground those assets, so I'm optimistic. I'm not sure even the tankers, tear-downs or w.h.y. necessarily achieve that - real organization depth (whichi is what actually wins in playoff runs) somewhat gets lost in the haze of lottery picks in some instances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, oldnews said: Cheers P.O. I don't really think a franchise has much flexibility unless/until it has that push of young talent from within, and enough of it, to give a management group the volume of ELCs and RFAs to boster their qualty Iideally young) depth that really enables them to build competitively. Some teams are at stages where they don't necessarily need that push, but teams on the build, or however you want to put it. like this one, need that rethinged prospect pool. That's not to say they need a cookie cutter volumes of picks approach - but they need to scout, trade, draft and develop well enough to be sustainable. That said, I think the Canucks are rapidly approaching the point where they have the volume of youth to deal from somewhat of a position of strength where it matters. And I think they have the devlopment and coaching to ground those assets, so I'm optimistic. I'm not sure even the tankers, tear-downs or w.h.y. necessarily achieve that - real organization depth (whichi is what actually wins in playoff runs) somewhat gets lost in the haze of lottery picks in some instances. And a super hot goalie at playoff time. I agree we are looking really good for the next decade. We have two goalies who will fight for that number one job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 Not sure about the Canucks for in regards to Alf, he's on a: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Industrious1 Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 4 hours ago, Primal Optimist said: I never want to come down too hard on the leaders on the ice from any era, except Mark Messier, what a Mess, but I feel the five long years has been the last five, and we have been really patient as a fanbase. 2011 was awesome and in the dying minutes of that run an eye opener, almost every moment since then I have felt the team needed to move on in a polite and appreciative way from the makeup of that 2011 team. A team, one may argue, that was built to be runner up. I am not here to debate that though. I am just responding mostly to Chris12345 above here, when I say I think we were collectively pretending from the start of the 11-12 season that we could get there again and have a better result with our top guys from the 2011 run. For me, as much as I love Hank and Dank and they are absolute allstars and Hall Ready, for me the pretending is about to come to an end. Agree with you on pretty much all of your points. My only quibble is that there was a vocal minority of fans that knew after 2011 that the club wasn't built to get the job done....whenever they posted about it they were shouted done by an even more vocal majority of fans that believed otherwise. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but in this day and age of unpopular opinions being witch hunted and laughed at...I just wish we could all be more accepting of ideas in general. I better watch out, i'm starting to sound like Kanye and people will think i'm crazy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrago Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 Personally I think we need 3 more drafts after this one with high picks for us to win the Cup. What I think is going to happen however is we are going to get better too quickly lose in the first or maybe the second round for 3-5 years then start this all over again. This group of young talent I fear will have to be the veterans on the team with the next wave of high picks coming in on ELC's to push us to the top. We are probably looking at 2025-30 as our next Cup window. We really needed to start clearing House in a big way after the 2012 season then we could have taken advantage of still having the Sedin's. Instead we went on life support and wasted our opportunity. But that's just my opinion. Better late then never I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primal Optimist Posted May 20, 2018 Author Share Posted May 20, 2018 6 hours ago, Industrious1 said: Agree with you on pretty much all of your points. My only quibble is that there was a vocal minority of fans that knew after 2011 that the club wasn't built to get the job done....whenever they posted about it they were shouted done by an even more vocal majority of fans that believed otherwise. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but in this day and age of unpopular opinions being witch hunted and laughed at...I just wish we could all be more accepting of ideas in general. I better watch out, i'm starting to sound like Kanye and people will think i'm crazy I think you could say, i moved over to Fantasy Hockey and that section of the boards and branched my fandom out to other teams as well as the Canucks after 2011 and so there is some correlation there for sure. I know what your talking about. It wasn't a conscious decision which I think underscores it for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glug Datt Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 9 hours ago, Primal Optimist said: I think you could say, i moved over to Fantasy Hockey and that section of the boards and branched my fandom out to other teams as well as the Canucks after 2011 and so there is some correlation there for sure. I know what your talking about. It wasn't a conscious decision which I think underscores it for me. this is where I'm at.. I had an XL hangover in '95 and '12.. and yah the canucks will always be my team, but I love good hockey, no matter where I find it. as far as where we're at? my eyes are wide open.. sure we've got some excitement up front, but demko is likely a ways from a leading role in the big dance, and we have very little in defensive help.. but I'm ok with that, since I can always find good hockey in other sources in the meantime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primal Optimist Posted May 20, 2018 Author Share Posted May 20, 2018 You don't think free agency and a boat load of cap space will attract a top 3 Dman or top six forward or both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 16 hours ago, Industrious1 said: Agree with you on pretty much all of your points. My only quibble is that there was a vocal minority of fans that knew after 2011 that the club wasn't built to get the job done....whenever they posted about it they were shouted done by an even more vocal majority of fans that believed otherwise. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but in this day and age of unpopular opinions being witch hunted and laughed at...I just wish we could all be more accepting of ideas in general. I better watch out, i'm starting to sound like Kanye and people will think i'm crazy There's always a vocal minority though. It's easier to pick apart than to build up. It seemed the vocal minority demanded a team with zero flaws and was lacking in the constructive criticism department. That just doesn't happen, doubly so in a cap world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 17 hours ago, Industrious1 said: Agree with you on pretty much all of your points. My only quibble is that there was a vocal minority of fans that knew after 2011 that the club wasn't built to get the job done....whenever they posted about it they were shouted done by an even more vocal majority of fans that believed otherwise. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but in this day and age of unpopular opinions being witch hunted and laughed at...I just wish we could all be more accepting of ideas in general. I better watch out, i'm starting to sound like Kanye and people will think i'm crazy Anyone's opinion is welcome as long as it's similar to mine, the rest are either simply dumb, uneducated absolutely incorrect or trolling. Right? That said Bouchard is the bomb, hope we get him, the 94 run was better, we are not even close to getting out of the cellar (ok two or three years I guess is close) and Horvat should be captain... that covers about everything, oh except Tanev will not be traded for anything more than a late first by a contending team. Plus we need that Horvat fan back that used to post several new threads daily, he was ridiculed into submission, but the Gaurdian can't do it all by himself, one of his last threads titled BORING was right on the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 Where are we now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris12345 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 16 hours ago, thrago said: Personally I think we need 3 more drafts after this one with high picks for us to win the Cup. What I think is going to happen however is we are going to get better too quickly lose in the first or maybe the second round for 3-5 years then start this all over again. This group of young talent I fear will have to be the veterans on the team with the next wave of high picks coming in on ELC's to push us to the top. We are probably looking at 2025-30 as our next Cup window. We really needed to start clearing House in a big way after the 2012 season then we could have taken advantage of still having the Sedin's. Instead we went on life support and wasted our opportunity. But that's just my opinion. Better late then never I guess. Yep....I agree hence my pretender comment. We will finish poorly next year, and then start competing for second round exits for 10 plus years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris12345 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Primal Optimist said: You don't think free agency and a boat load of cap space will attract a top 3 Dman or top six forward or both? No. This might surprise Vancouverites but it's not favoured by NHL players to play in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Chris12345 said: No. This might surprise Vancouverites but it's not favoured by NHL players to play in. how would you know that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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