higgyfan Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 25 minutes ago, Baggins said: 15 points is a pretty low bar for a 24 yr old former 1st round pick. I suspect Brendan will end up following his older brother Cameron's foot steps in the long run. Career AHL'er with call ups from time to time. Maybe. But 15pts is a good start on his way to 20, maybe 25 (which would be acceptable given his excellent defensive game). He's proven he can score in every level he has played, so perhaps he can regain some of his offensive game. I don't think Cameron ever really came close to becoming an NHL player, albeit it is harder for the young dmen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammertime Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 17 hours ago, The Bookie said: Boucher's numbers might as well be tossed out the window. Injury replacement in meaningless games at the tail end of a throwaway season. Guaranteed the opposing coaches and D men weren't focusing on him at all - if they did, his production would grind to a halt. No disrespect to him but he's an AHLer through and through. We really should be able to recognize this by now over getting distracted by the newest shiniest possible toy. The LW position is a mess. I really hoped that someone would step up and take it by now, but Baertschi is the best so far and he's a 2/3 tweener. It sucks because the options are to either gift it to Elias or Goldy uncontested or hand out another big UFA contract only to regret it 2/3yrs from now. If only there was a middle option. I think LW is the least of the problems. Canucks desperately need a 2 C B. Or they wont enjoy the party next season either. Bo Sutter Gagner/Granlund Gaudette Down the middle doesn't sit well with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianRugby Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 Good post OP. For most surprising forward I was gonna vote Leipsic but thought the sample size was too small. Who are these 7 clowns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bookie Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 4 hours ago, hammertime said: I think LW is the least of the problems. Canucks desperately need a 2 C B. Or they wont enjoy the party next season either. Bo Sutter Gagner/Granlund Gaudette Down the middle doesn't sit well with me. 1 Draft Veleno 2 Sign Stastny 3 Linden comes out of retirement 4 Get some Elias in ya 5 Wrap Nick Dowd in a carpet throw him off a bridge 6 Presidents Trophy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qwags Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 We saw some of this from Green in regards to Virtanen and Goldy, and it appears to have worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammertime Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 16 hours ago, The Bookie said: 1 Draft Veleno 2 Sign Stastny 3 Linden comes out of retirement 4 Get some Elias in ya 5 Wrap Nick Dowd in a carpet throw him off a bridge 6 Presidents Trophy hahaha 3 seems like the best option 1 Might be a big reach and I am one of Veleno's biggest protractors. He will be a solid 2/3C playmaker. 2 Stastny will be expensive though I'm for bringing him in the cost will be enormous. 3 Linden would offer immediate media insulation for the utes in his 5 mins per night. 4 Elias P would have the worst FO% in the league 5 What's taken so long? 9 Name of the trophy should be changed to the Canucks Stanley Cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuardian_ Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 I know this team has had several older players on it recently, but 25 or 26 years old is over the half way point of an around average NHLer's career, Baertschi and Granlund are both more than half way. It is not likely either will be playing much past 30, Granlund maybe because he is more versatile. Leipsic came from a team that gave everyone a chance to be the best they could, several on that team excelled and stuck, he fell short (pardon the pun) and was moved. Motte may be a specialist along the lines of Granlund with less scoring potential, both not the biggest players but hard checking, decent on PK and pretty good defensively. Motte so far seems to have better hockey IQ than Menga. Virtanen has the speed to stick as a offensive weapon, practice that shot and he could be up there with Boeser leading the team in scoring goals, but then I have been posting this since he first was in the NHL. On 5/20/2018 at 10:01 AM, Crabcakes said: I think a lot of posters see this line up with multiple players who fit the same slot and are uncomfortable with it. Benning wants players to always feel that they have to compete hard to keep their position in the line up no matter where they fit in. We need to get used to this. It is healthy for the team. Very true, players that believe they are playing for their jobs often need little coaching to get ready for a game because they play thinking it could be their last. AHL players come into the NHL with the concept that this is their last chance, they are a group that has little ego left, just do as you are told as hard as you can. sort of like Burrow's attitude, thankful to be there. This does make them easier to coach because the coach now hold their livelihood unlike the established multimillionaires which are assured of their spot in the game. No doubt fans will see players flying around the rink, some hitting and the "stars" on the PP and with bigger minutes. You know Boeser is the only the second player in 4 years to crack the lineup out of camp, the other was Stecher. I don't count McCann due to the trade or Tryamkin because they let him go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 On 2018-05-24 at 9:48 AM, TheGuardian_ said: You know Boeser is the only the second player in 4 years to crack the lineup out of camp, the other was Stecher. I don't count McCann due to the trade or Tryamkin because they let him go. So you just make stuff up to suit your narrative then? Because whether or not McCann was traded and Tryamkin went back home they still made the team out of camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuardian_ Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 5 hours ago, canuck73_3 said: So you just make stiff up to suit your narrative then? Because whether or not McCann was traded and Tryamkin went back home they still made the team out of camp. Just commenting upon the lack of "competiveness" for making the team, haven't seen any signed players bumped. Guys that were here the year before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 6 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said: Just commenting upon the lack of "competiveness" for making the team, haven't seen any signed players bumped. Guys that were here the year before. McCann was traded AFTER the season, Tryamkin went home on his own accord AFTER the season. They both made the team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 7 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said: You know Boeser is the only the second player in 4 years to crack the lineup out of camp, the other was Stecher. I don't count McCann due to the trade or Tryamkin because they let him go. 4 years is a long time...Horvat, Hutton, McCaan, Virtanen, Stetcher, Boeser, & Tramkin all made the team out of camp. Next year we may see Gaudette, Pettersson, Joulevie & Dahlen and the year after a few more as well. Vet contracts are finishing quickly now. Edler and Del Z 2019 season, Gagner and Tanev 2020 season and then Sutter 2021. That's not even counting possible trades (I don't see Edler, Tanev or Sutter completing their contracts). It's all about having a prospect pool that has young players that are on the verge of being ready to make the jump; which Van has for the first time in years. No need to rush them, but there will be openings if and when they are ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 7 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said: You know Boeser is the only the second player in 4 years to crack the lineup out of camp, the other was Stecher. I don't count McCann due to the trade or Tryamkin because they let him go. Actually Stecher was sent to the AHL to start the season and was recalled after 4 games in Utica. He was a victim of the numbers game because Tryamkin couldn't be sent to Utica. Virtanen, Hutton, Horvat and Vey all made the team straight out of camp though. Not sure why you are ignoring McCann and Tryamkin. By my count that's 7 rookies making the opening roster out of camp in four seasons. Not awful considering what Benning started with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xereau Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 On 21/05/2018 at 12:07 PM, higgyfan said: Maybe. But 15pts is a good start on his way to 20, maybe 25 (which would be acceptable given his excellent defensive game). He's proven he can score in every level he has played, so perhaps he can regain some of his offensive game. I don't think Cameron ever really came close to becoming an NHL player, albeit it is harder for the young dmen. I like his game. He is gaining confidence with the puck. And when he does have it, its hard to take it from him. He is super solid on his skates. Big body in the middle of the ice. And he wins board battles. What this team needs. And he is still only 24. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuardian_ Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 14 hours ago, canuck73_3 said: McCann was traded AFTER the season, Tryamkin went home on his own accord AFTER the season. They both made the team My "compete for a position" at the start of the season. Almost the entire team is decided in August, signed and there are no changes. Every year. This year MIGHT be different in that the team may say they have two rookie positions and they are up for grabs OR they may allow a rookie to beat out a vet. Like next season, at this time, on the team, ALL the players on the roster now with two spots open from the Dan and Hank leaving, MAYBE Jussi's spot as well. There has been no player "bumping" another off the current roster at camp, except maybe Boeser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 2 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said: My "compete for a position" at the start of the season. Almost the entire team is decided in August, signed and there are no changes. Every year. This year MIGHT be different in that the team may say they have two rookie positions and they are up for grabs OR they may allow a rookie to beat out a vet. Like next season, at this time, on the team, ALL the players on the roster now with two spots open from the Dan and Hank leaving, MAYBE Jussi's spot as well. There has been no player "bumping" another off the current roster at camp, except maybe Boeser. Lol ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 On 5/20/2018 at 7:46 PM, higgyfan said: Gaunce plays a ton of minutes as Green's go to guy defensively. His injury cut short what appeared to be his best season so far. Hopefully he can stay healthy and pot 15pts next season. Gaunce had literally unreal defensive numbers last year. 14.9 % offensive zone starts is relatively unheard of for young forwards breaking into the NHL, That's relatively extreme for even veteran shutdown guys like Sutter or Malhotra. His corsi was 46%. Those are outstanding possession numbers in that context. His on-ice goals against was 1.7 per 60 minutes - the best on the team - and literally outstanding in the context of 14.9% ozone starts. People that get caught up on Gaunce's production miss his value entirely. He's being developed into an elite level shutdown forward - on that can turn territorial disadvantage into ozone starts for the top 6. That is a valuable role player on any NHL team - and when you can do that at the level Gaunce was as a 23 year old - that is exceptionally promising. When you also factor in that he's a very good skater - that he weighs in at 217 lbs - that he's a natural center (so he has the groundwork of a great defensive game, with upside) - and has taken faceoffs his entire career - he makes an ideal winger conversion and second faceoff guy on your shutdown unit. You also have the ideal left handed draw to complement Sutter as a RH center. Those two give you the makings of an elite shutdown unit, with the possibility that Gaunce succeeds Sutter in the future giving you homegrown continuity. 'Bottom six' forwards are almost always undervalued and under-rated around here, particularly the guys whose roles are defensively weighted. Granlund, although different, has a similarly well-developed 'adult' game and is generally under-rated around here. These two imo are fixtures that when put in lists with players like Boucher (an AHL tweener) makes me shake my head. Gaunce - if he continues to develop and perform as he has - is an absolute keeper - and some secondary scoring (while not really his role) will come nevertheless as the team improves and he gets more confident and takes more chances/opportunities. But his 'possession' and defensive numbers alone are absolutely outstanding (and an indication of what he's capable of playing with a guy like Sutter - who is also in part responsible for those numbers...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 1 hour ago, oldnews said: Gaunce had literally unreal defensive numbers last year. 14.9 % offensive zone starts is relatively unheard of for young forwards breaking into the NHL, That's relatively extreme for even veteran shutdown guys like Sutter or Malhotra. His corsi was 46%. Those are outstanding possession numbers in that context. His on-ice goals against was 1.7 per 60 minutes - the best on the team - and literally outstanding in the context of 14.9% ozone starts. People that get caught up on Gaunce's production miss his value entirely. He's being developed into an elite level shutdown forward - on that can turn territorial disadvantage into ozone starts for the top 6. That is a valuable role player on any NHL team - and when you can do that at the level Gaunce was as a 23 year old - that is exceptionally promising. When you also factor in that he's a very good skater - that he weighs in at 217 lbs - that he's a natural center (so he has the groundwork of a great defensive game, with upside) - and has taken faceoffs his entire career - he makes an ideal winger conversion and second faceoff guy on your shutdown unit. You also have the ideal left handed draw to complement Sutter as a RH center. Those two give you the makings of an elite shutdown unit, with the possibility that Gaunce succeeds Sutter in the future giving you homegrown continuity. 'Bottom six' forwards are almost always undervalued and under-rated around here, particularly the guys whose roles are defensively weighted. Granlund, although different, has a similarly well-developed 'adult' game and is generally under-rated around here. These two imo are fixtures that when put in lists with players like Boucher (an AHL tweener) makes me shake my head. Gaunce - if he continues to develop and perform as he has - is an absolute keeper - and some secondary scoring (while not really his role) will come nevertheless as the team improves and he gets more confident and takes more chances/opportunities. But his 'possession' and defensive numbers alone are absolutely outstanding (and an indication of what he's capable of playing with a guy like Sutter - who is also in part responsible for those numbers...) Nice to hear the stats behind Gaunce's game. He has fantastic hockey sense to perform as well as he does (for a guy that has only played 114 NHL games). It usually takes much longer for a young player to figure out the defensive game in the big league. I always thought that his peak projection would be 3rd line (shutdown) C and can still see the possibility. Of course, Gaudette will want to challenge him for that spot in the future. As you have pointed out, his defensive acumen alone make Gaunce a viable NHLer, but it certainly wouldn't surprise me if he did manage to include some scoring (+20pts) within the next couple of seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 14 hours ago, oldnews said: . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 13 hours ago, oldnews said: Gaunce had literally unreal defensive numbers last year. 14.9 % offensive zone starts is relatively unheard of for young forwards breaking into the NHL, That's relatively extreme for even veteran shutdown guys like Sutter or Malhotra. His corsi was 46%. Those are outstanding possession numbers in that context. His on-ice goals against was 1.7 per 60 minutes - the best on the team - and literally outstanding in the context of 14.9% ozone starts. People that get caught up on Gaunce's production miss his value entirely. He's being developed into an elite level shutdown forward - on that can turn territorial disadvantage into ozone starts for the top 6. That is a valuable role player on any NHL team - and when you can do that at the level Gaunce was as a 23 year old - that is exceptionally promising. When you also factor in that he's a very good skater - that he weighs in at 217 lbs - that he's a natural center (so he has the groundwork of a great defensive game, with upside) - and has taken faceoffs his entire career - he makes an ideal winger conversion and second faceoff guy on your shutdown unit. You also have the ideal left handed draw to complement Sutter as a RH center. Those two give you the makings of an elite shutdown unit, with the possibility that Gaunce succeeds Sutter in the future giving you homegrown continuity. 'Bottom six' forwards are almost always undervalued and under-rated around here, particularly the guys whose roles are defensively weighted. Granlund, although different, has a similarly well-developed 'adult' game and is generally under-rated around here. These two imo are fixtures that when put in lists with players like Boucher (an AHL tweener) makes me shake my head. Gaunce - if he continues to develop and perform as he has - is an absolute keeper - and some secondary scoring (while not really his role) will come nevertheless as the team improves and he gets more confident and takes more chances/opportunities. But his 'possession' and defensive numbers alone are absolutely outstanding (and an indication of what he's capable of playing with a guy like Sutter - who is also in part responsible for those numbers...) 15 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said: People who concentrate on the team player-by-player using projected stats etc. forget it is a team sport. One of this years' SCF teams has a first line made up of: - one player, Reilly Smith, is 27, a third round pick and who until this year averaged a career 0.51 ppg (for some compare to players people feel are not legit NHL first liners... Baer's career to date is 0.47 ppg, Horvat 0.55 and Loui Eriksson is 0.66 ppg) - next one is also 27 years old, Jonathan Marchessault. His first full year in the NHL didn't come until he was 26 years old....26! Notice to Juolevi and Virtanen bashers, giving up on kids at 19/20/21 or even several years afterwards is so incredibly short-sited if the talent is there. Anyway, back to Marchessault who entered this year with a very respectable 0.56 points per game...not as good as, say, Loui Eriksson's career average, but clearly all could see he was a first line star in making for a SCF team. Right? - final member of this top line is William Karlsson who is 25 years old and last year scored 6 goals in the NHL during the regular season to set his career numbers to 0.27 ppg (Alex Edler career to date is 0.44 ppg....). Clearly all saw a potential Rocket Richard winner in this guy. Points are simple: - be patient with players ... look at age of emergence for these players - hockey is a TEAM GAME. The whole can be much greater than the sum of the parts. Edmonton proved this past year decade the opposite can also be true. Thanks @oldnews for info write up of Gaunce. I was slightly disappointed about the amount of goals Gaunce scored, and think I fell slightly into the results now group. @Rob_Zepp made a great write up, why you should never get too concerned about the goal out puts of younger players. I'd still like to see Gaunce get more physical as well, but that may not be in his DNA... Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuporbust Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 On 20/05/2018 at 6:07 AM, spook007 said: While I understand the many votes for Leipsic, I think Virtanen was the one, who seemed to come on leaps at the end of the seson. I expect big things from him next year. Was disappointed with the progress of Gaunce last season. Not sure we'll see him again.... But he is still not finishing. Until he does that, i cant really say he is suprising me personally. Its time for Virtanen to move past the word potential Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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