D-Money Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 7 hours ago, Alflives said: Again, it's fact. Kessel is a plus, and Pens win Cup. Kessel is a minus, and Pens are out early. Kessel killed 10 years of the Leafs + I hate the Leafs = I love Kessel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckNORRIS4Cup Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 Toronto always needs help in scoring! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyCuddles Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 Dang, they are really taking this loss to Washington to heart. Gonna go full rebuild huh. Given most people are saying it's bogus it makes sense that they wouldn't deal him. Ride this Crosby/Malkin train until they literally can't perform anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 18 hours ago, Alflives said: Two before he arrived, and two after he was traded (plus the six he was there) = 10 What year did Hull win the Cup? It was in Dallas right? '99? Was he a plus, or a minus that regular season? There might be top minute guys winning Cups, who are minus regular season guys, but with Kessel he was a minus, the Pens were out early. When he was a plus, the Pens won two Cups. Don't Cup winning teams tend to be chalk full of plus players, especially in their top minute guys? And 2002... Hull is arguably the purest goal scorer the game ever had. Him or Bossy. And in Dallas he learned to be good defensively too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EoH Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 Won 2 cups, made his worth. Time to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 No brainer. Trade Kessel. But where is he a better fit than in Pittsburgh? To San Jose? In any event. all they really gave up for Kessel is Kapanen, so if they can recover even a decent prospect, or dump him for next to nothing, the 'rental' paid off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 23 hours ago, Alflives said: the two Cups the Pens won with Kessel he was a plus player during their regular season, which is say something for him. Last season (Pens lose this playoffs early) Kessel was a minus, like he was too often in TO. I would not want anything to do with the minus player that Kessel is. The plus player yes, but I don't think he can be a plus player anymore, and (maybe?) the Pens realize this too. That's pretty simplistic Alf. But it does show something about the effectiveness of the units he was playing on. As I see it - it was the absence of Bonino that made a huge difference to Pittsburgh. Bonino is a highly under-rated two way player. When you have a guy like him on your third line, it helps enable you to exploit that level of 'secondary' scoring - to use the Pens scoring depth to create some very difficult matchups - but in the absence of Bones, is Sheahan the equivalent? I don't think so - at least not yet. When you have to elevate Kessel so dramatically as they did in this playoffs ie a team high 66% ozone starts and the worst underlying numbers on the team nevertheless (45% corsi) - clearly, Kessel is the one way anchor you make him out to be - but when they had the Bone-show, they had the ideal complement that could inflate Kessel's tires. I think, in the absence of that kind of depth down the middle (I like Sheahan, but he's different than Bonino - not quite the crafty, complete player that Bonino is) - I think Kessel becomes a luxury that might be costing them more than he delivers. I'd move him too - and asap. Who knows what Rutherford is thinking though - it might make as much sense to go out and shop for another center to attempt to recreate that formula. But Kessel is now 30 - he's not the easiest guy to create a fit for (you really need complementary two way pieces or he's a serious liability) - and he's not exactly known as a fitness buff, so you have to wonder about how long he'll be able to extend his career beyond his prime. For me, I'd be moving on and counting my gains from what they did make of him there. Four more years of Kessel? Try to strike early imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 6 minutes ago, oldnews said: That's pretty simplistic Alf. But it does show something about the effectiveness of the units he was playing on. As I see it - it was the absence of Bonino that made a huge difference to Pittsburgh. Bonino is a highly under-rated two way player. When you have a guy like him on your third line, it helps enable you to exploit that level of 'secondary' scoring - to use the Pens scoring depth to create some very difficult matchups - but in the absence of Bones, is Sheahan the equivalent? I don't think so - at least not yet. When you have to elevate Kessel so dramatically as they did in this playoffs ie a team high 66% ozone starts and the worst underlying numbers on the team nevertheless (45% corsi) - clearly, Kessel is the one way anchor you make him out to be - but when they had the Bone-show, they had the ideal complement that could inflate Kessel's tires. I think, in the absence of that kind of depth down the middle (I like Sheahan, but he's different than Bonino - not quite the crafty, complete player that Bonino is) - I think Kessel becomes a luxury that might be costing them more than he delivers. I'd move him too - and asap. Who knows what Rutherford is thinking though - it might make as much sense to go out and shop for another center to attempt to recreate that formula. But Kessel is now 30 - he's not the easiest guy to create a fit for (you really need complementary two way pieces or he's a serious liability) - and he's not exactly known as a fitness buff, so you have to wonder about how long he'll be able to extend his career beyond his prime. For me, I'd be moving on and counting my gains from what they did make of him there. I’ve always liked watching Kessel play; he’s fun, especially with the puck. Bonino, like Sutter, is a very underrated player. Guys like him (and Sutter) make their wingers more effective for sure. I wonder if the Leafs just missed out on Kessel playing with a matured Kadri? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 Just now, Alflives said: I’ve always liked watching Kessel play; he’s fun, especially with the puck. Bonino, like Sutter, is a very underrated player. Guys like him (and Sutter) make their wingers more effective for sure. I wonder if the Leafs just missed out on Kessel playing with a matured Kadri? I think the Leafs had a good complement to Kessel - Bozak made Kessel better and was highly under-rated through those times. 'Analytics' stories in Toronto suggested that Bozak was riding Kessel's coat-tails - but that was highly oversimplified and misleading. Bozak was a solid two way center who didn't get enough credit imo for the impact he had in keeping Kessel productive. I think the mistake Toronoto made was extending Kessel (and Phaneuf), when his rental value probably would have been higher than attempting to shot that contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Vintage Canuck- Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Phil Kessel was ‘furious’ that he didn’t get to play more with Evgeni Malkin in the playoffs and believes that having him play with Derick Brassard and Riley Sheahan hurt the team. The Athletic’s Josh Yohe says that head coach Mike Sullivan was not happy with Kessel’s attitude and Penguins executives believe he was being ‘pouty’. Due to Kessel’s hate-hate relationship with Sullivan he is said to be okay with the prospect of being traded in the offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 1 hour ago, -Vintage Canuck- said: Phil Kessel was ‘furious’ that he didn’t get to play more with Evgeni Malkin in the playoffs and believes that having him play with Derick Brassard and Riley Sheahan hurt the team. The Athletic’s Josh Yohe says that head coach Mike Sullivan was not happy with Kessel’s attitude and Penguins executives believe he was being ‘pouty’. Due to Kessel’s hate-hate relationship with Sullivan he is said to be okay with the prospect of being traded in the offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kragar Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 I' m sure his agent is hard at work on this developing situation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyking8888 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Top teams in the league are good at buy low and sell high. Doesn't surprise me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuck1991 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 kessel for eriksson and 2nd this year two elite snipers boeser and kessel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwijibo Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 2 hours ago, Nuck1991 said: kessel for eriksson and 2nd this year two elite snipers boeser and kessel I assume you have a sniper trained on Rutherford when you make that proposal. That’s the only way Pittsburgh accepts that lopsided offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 6 hours ago, Kragar said: I' m sure his agent is hard at work on this developing situation... Cookie monster for Andrew Hammond (and Kyle Wellwood). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 On 2018-05-26 at 11:16 AM, oldnews said: No brainer. Trade Kessel. But where is he a better fit than in Pittsburgh? To San Jose? In any event. all they really gave up for Kessel is Kapanen, so if they can recover even a decent prospect, or dump him for next to nothing, the 'rental' paid off. And a 1st round pick which Toronto turned into Andersen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Money Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 On 2018-05-26 at 11:16 AM, oldnews said: No brainer. Trade Kessel. But where is he a better fit than in Pittsburgh? To San Jose? In any event. all they really gave up for Kessel is Kapanen, so if they can recover even a decent prospect, or dump him for next to nothing, the 'rental' paid off. I actually think a good fit is Nashville. They are in "win-now" mode, they have lots of cap space, multiple trade chips, and a center with proven chemistry (Bonino). They also are in need of secondary scoring from the wing - particularly RW, as they have only 3 natural RW-ers under contract within the entire organization, minors included (Arvidsson, Hartman, and Salomaki...and the latter 2 are impending RFAs). The other possibility is if Kessel is potentially the piece going back to Arizona if the Max Domi rumours are true. Coyotes would have to add, but they are also very weak at RW, and could use a top-line player who could play with Stepan or Strome and produce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 Kessel is pouty? Maybe complex? Or melancholy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 1 hour ago, D-Money said: I actually think a good fit is Nashville. They are in "win-now" mode, they have lots of cap space, multiple trade chips, and a center with proven chemistry (Bonino). They also are in need of secondary scoring from the wing - particularly RW, as they have only 3 natural RW-ers under contract within the entire organization, minors included (Arvidsson, Hartman, and Salomaki...and the latter 2 are impending RFAs). The other possibility is if Kessel is potentially the piece going back to Arizona if the Max Domi rumours are true. Coyotes would have to add, but they are also very weak at RW, and could use a top-line player who could play with Stepan or Strome and produce. A trade based around Kessel for Domi makes so much sense for both teams. Good call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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