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Why do some excessively criticize prospects?

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1 minute ago, TimberWolf said:

Why do some fans excessively criticize the fan base?

Why do some fans excessively critize the fans, who excessively criticize the fan base?  :ph34r:

 

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"Why do some excessively talk prospects up and make them seem superior to every other young player in the league"

 

It works both ways 

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1 hour ago, guntrix said:

It's threads like these that make me wonder if CDC lives under a rock. Criticism is part of not only every NHL team but every single sport in existence. When someone tries to psycho-analyze why fans are criticizing a professional athlete, it's difficult not to let out a laugh. 

 

Criticism is justified when it's deserved. If you want to understand how sheltered Vancouver is in this regard, you should see how intense it gets with soccer over in Europe and in South America. Maybe then there wouldn't be so much pouting about potentially hurting someone's feelings. 

The soccer example isn't what we should be aspiring to. 

 

People are impatient. Grass is greener over there. Many fans don't understand that it takes time to develop some kids to have a complete game. 

 

Add that to a segment of local media that feeds on negativity and you get ridiculous comments about kids like Juolevi. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

 NHL teams are LUCKY if two players per draft make it and stay with that organization more than five years.   There are year-on-year exceptions to that rule but over time, that is about the average.   For example, will all of Gadjovich, Lind, Gaudette and DiPietro make the NHL and be stars?   Statistically, not a hope.   

I think some organizations like Detroit were very good for a long time at squeezing out a few more and i think thats what Linden is trying to develop here long term, but that is going to take a while, at least 5 more years imo before this organization looks anything like that team's pipeline did. 

 

Does a lot of the fan base have that kind of patience? I think a lot of CDC does, but there's always going to be people that want it all yesterday and/or are quick to throw kids under the bus if they aren't playing like Burns in their D+1 and get super pissy if someone has a different pov. Some even go as far as to say people aren't who they say they are as if that would matter on an anonymous internet forum :lol: 

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9 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I think some organizations like Detroit were very good for a long time at squeezing out a few more and i think thats what Linden is trying to develop here long term, but that is going to take a while, at least 5 more years imo before this organization looks anything like that team's pipeline did. 

 

Does a lot of the fan base have that kind of patience? I think a lot of CDC does, but there's always going to be people that want it all yesterday and/or are quick to throw kids under the bus if they aren't playing like Burns in their D+1 and get super pissy if someone has a different pov. Some even go as far as to say people aren't who they say they are as if that would matter on an anonymous internet forum :lol: 

To be completely honest, I don’t really play the piano.  

B85F8B2B-A3BF-4107-92C6-485F2E2EB66F.gif

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4 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Hey, I get it.   Some of these kids are going to make millions, retire in their thirties, and some even marry supermodels.  The jealously factor is one card I guess in some of the vitriol.   IF they make it, they are beneficiaries of a society with some pretty odd priorities (how we pay professional athletes in compare to top teachers, doctors, nurses, police etc.).   

 

However, while these players are still essentially kids, and often before they have even played an NHL game let alone player through their ELC, they are exposed to a plethora of criticisms ranging from:

  • unrealistic expectations - particularly if compared to some fantasy world where they have to develop as fast, or faster, than every other player in the world, to
  • widespread contempt for being human - they cannot get sick, make a few errors in social media judgment or even sleep in late once in a while.  God forbid they have a hobby outside hockey.

 

Constructive criticism (would be great to see X work on his skating, I wish Y would get some help on rebound control, Z needs to up the physical game a bit but is making strides ...and similar) is great and seems healthy....you want the prospects for your team to improve.   However, reading some forums and listening on line to both radio hosts and some callers, wow so some some of these "fans" ever come across as clingy, vicarious humans with absolutely no lives.   It is almost that if a given prospect, let alone "their team", doesn't live up to "their expectations" then they feel personally slighted and need to lash out in some aggressive manner.   How is that remotely healthy?   It is almost like some people don't think that these 18-22 year old kids are TRYING to not improve, TRYING to not become elite or TRYING to not help the team win.   

 

Take the sports talk radio your team has - other than Todd Bertuzzi who I have heard three times now (and is excellent), have you ever listened?   The hosts are VERY negative and pass on any potential tidbit they can invent/imagine that seemingly makes the team they cover seem worse due to the addition of the given prospect.   Someone sent me a link to a recent show by David Pratt who I remember being in Toronto.   He essentially implied he KNEW something about a Canuck prospect to true even though it was not only false, but the implication was vile.   The callers in picked up on the blood in the water and they collectively worked themselves into a frenzy.   Even when a prospect does something great, it is couched with "that wasn't in the NHL" or "he is wrong body type" or "Player X did this and would been a better pick" and so on.  The callers rarely ever seem to make a valid point and those that do are seemingly ignored as they don't buy into to the fantasy/contrived controversy. Often seems like they're (both the radio host and the fans, both on radio and on the internet in forums) are venting personal frustrations. And almost always these vents seem desperate for some kind, any kind, of human contact the validates their frustration.   Again, how is that healthy for anyone?

 

I sincerely don't get it.  Your team's prospects are you team's prospects.   Whatever team(s) you choose to follow.  Why not support them?   It would be like a parent saying to their kid "You suck, why don't you be more like X?!" versus "Great game! Too bad on that chance, if you want we could spend some more time on your shot next week" or similar.  Sure, constructive criticism is fine but what value is there in the over-the-top crap?   Why repeat vicious rumours - rumours that are almost ALWAYS wrong.  Why even speculate?    Sure, it can be fun to poke at a rival team's players and there can be legitimate issues with some players (where lines are so clearly crossed that there is no question) but those are different situations.

 

A lot of various prospect combines have either started or are coming up in the next few weeks, including that for various CHL drafts and, of course, the NHL draft.   Your team will likely have 5 or 6 new prospects later this summer.   Support them.

 

Anyone who has spent time around sports is sure to have witnessed inappropriate "fan" behaviour.  A fan has an incredible opportunity to make an impact on their prospect’s success and, by extension, that fan's team.   Some may get caught up in their own frustrations in life and lose sight of this.  Inappropriate behavior can have long lasting, negative consequences on prospects.  Some seem to think things don't get back to the players - give your head a shake if you believe that. 

 

Just having a nice reflection after a long flight.   Cheer your prospects when they do well but cheer harder to encourage them when they need it the most....the times they are not doing as well.

Whatever....

 

 

 

 

 

 

just play the young guns...lol

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Hey, I get it.   Some of these kids are going to make millions, retire in their thirties, and some even marry supermodels.  The jealously factor is one card I guess in some of the vitriol.   IF they make it, they are beneficiaries of a society with some pretty odd priorities (how we pay professional athletes in compare to top teachers, doctors, nurses, police etc.).   

 

However, while these players are still essentially kids, and often before they have even played an NHL game let alone player through their ELC, they are exposed to a plethora of criticisms ranging from:

  • unrealistic expectations - particularly if compared to some fantasy world where they have to develop as fast, or faster, than every other player in the world, to
  • widespread contempt for being human - they cannot get sick, make a few errors in social media judgment or even sleep in late once in a while.  God forbid they have a hobby outside hockey.

 

Constructive criticism (would be great to see X work on his skating, I wish Y would get some help on rebound control, Z needs to up the physical game a bit but is making strides ...and similar) is great and seems healthy....you want the prospects for your team to improve.   However, reading some forums and listening on line to both radio hosts and some callers, wow so some some of these "fans" ever come across as clingy, vicarious humans with absolutely no lives.   It is almost that if a given prospect, let alone "their team", doesn't live up to "their expectations" then they feel personally slighted and need to lash out in some aggressive manner.   How is that remotely healthy?   It is almost like some people don't think that these 18-22 year old kids are TRYING to not improve, TRYING to not become elite or TRYING to not help the team win.   

 

Take the sports talk radio your team has - other than Todd Bertuzzi who I have heard three times now (and is excellent), have you ever listened?   The hosts are VERY negative and pass on any potential tidbit they can invent/imagine that seemingly makes the team they cover seem worse due to the addition of the given prospect.   Someone sent me a link to a recent show by David Pratt who I remember being in Toronto.   He essentially implied he KNEW something about a Canuck prospect to true even though it was not only false, but the implication was vile.   The callers in picked up on the blood in the water and they collectively worked themselves into a frenzy.   Even when a prospect does something great, it is couched with "that wasn't in the NHL" or "he is wrong body type" or "Player X did this and would been a better pick" and so on.  The callers rarely ever seem to make a valid point and those that do are seemingly ignored as they don't buy into to the fantasy/contrived controversy. Often seems like they're (both the radio host and the fans, both on radio and on the internet in forums) are venting personal frustrations. And almost always these vents seem desperate for some kind, any kind, of human contact the validates their frustration.   Again, how is that healthy for anyone?

 

I sincerely don't get it.  Your team's prospects are you team's prospects.   Whatever team(s) you choose to follow.  Why not support them?   It would be like a parent saying to their kid "You suck, why don't you be more like X?!" versus "Great game! Too bad on that chance, if you want we could spend some more time on your shot next week" or similar.  Sure, constructive criticism is fine but what value is there in the over-the-top crap?   Why repeat vicious rumours - rumours that are almost ALWAYS wrong.  Why even speculate?    Sure, it can be fun to poke at a rival team's players and there can be legitimate issues with some players (where lines are so clearly crossed that there is no question) but those are different situations.

 

A lot of various prospect combines have either started or are coming up in the next few weeks, including that for various CHL drafts and, of course, the NHL draft.   Your team will likely have 5 or 6 new prospects later this summer.   Support them.

 

Anyone who has spent time around sports is sure to have witnessed inappropriate "fan" behaviour.  A fan has an incredible opportunity to make an impact on their prospect’s success and, by extension, that fan's team.   Some may get caught up in their own frustrations in life and lose sight of this.  Inappropriate behavior can have long lasting, negative consequences on prospects.  Some seem to think things don't get back to the players - give your head a shake if you believe that. 

 

Just having a nice reflection after a long flight.   Cheer your prospects when they do well but cheer harder to encourage them when they need it the most....the times they are not doing as well.

 Maybe its the 'me now generation'? Maybe its fans who've only experienced the era of the sedin's and have never seen the 'downtimes' that all franchises experience - ie they go through a lifecyle of (hopefully) winning, then getting old, then losing and transitioning (as the canucks are now), then winning again. Its expecting to win now, withouth realizing all the work and hard times that lead to that winning they saw.

 

If you've never seen a team having to 'develop' its players, you have an expectation that every player is 'great' from the get go. It also tells me when people think this way, either they don't understand professional development (as hockey players are pros too, just as a newbie out of college doesn't know it all, nor does a 19 year old hockey player). 

 

I do think those that are the harshest critics, tend to either not be real fans, or relatively young. Not to pick on the younger generation but there is a very unrealistic expectation of many of those in gen y for instance (again not to pick on them), that one can just walk into a job and run the show (outside of hockey), and thus a lack of respect for what experience teaches, how you 'develop' as a professional over time. I am not sure how or why many of those in that generation come out of school that way but it is apparent in my field for certain.

 

That lack of understanding of professional development and the lack of understanding of the time it takes to REALLY become proficient at your job, is likely the they lens through which they evaluate players. If you can't lead the team in scoring in your rookie year (like Boeser) and you were a high draft pick (like Jake), well you're a bust. 

 

Impatience and a lack of understanding in my view. 

Edited by Petterrson's Dangle
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, guntrix said:

It's threads like these that make me wonder if CDC lives under a rock. Criticism is part of not only every NHL team but every single sport in existence. When someone tries to psycho-analyze why fans are criticizing a professional athlete, it's difficult not to let out a laugh. 

 

Criticism is justified when it's deserved. If you want to understand how sheltered Vancouver is in this regard, you should see how intense it gets with soccer over in Europe and in South America. Maybe then there wouldn't be so much pouting about potentially hurting someone's feelings. 

I think there might be some lingering blame-game psychology on display here from Zepp’s days as an actual NHL prospect.

 

It’s been fairly obvious until now, but is now crystal clear that his incessant mothering of the prospects on here must’ve had something to do with his own experiences as a prospect. 

 

These kids want to be in the Spots Entertainment business.

 

They get paid well and have all the perks a young man could dream of. To say that the consumer can’t offer opinions and reviews unless it’s a pet-a-thon of positivity and well-wishing is pretty North Korea-like, IMO.

 

I get that there are Troll jobs and mean-spirited posts on here, but they are few and far between. For every post like that there are a dozen Apollo-like posts, so I don’t get the SJW witch hunt message in the OP. 

 

Say whatever you want to say on here, as long as it’s within the forum rules.

Say OJ and JV were the wrong picks.

Say EP is McJesus 2.0.

 

Say Zepp should shut up about what others can say on here.

 

 

Edited by 189lb enforcers?
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1 hour ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

I think there might be some lingering blame-game psychology on display here from Zepp’s days as an actual NHL prospect.

 

It’s been fairly obvious until now, but is now crystal clear that his incessant mothering of the prospects on here must’ve had something to do with his own experiences as a prospect. 

 

These kids want to be in the Spots Entertainment business.

 

They get paid well and have all the perks a young man could dream of. To say that the consumer can’t offer opinions and reviews unless it’s a pet-a-thon of positivity and well-wishing is pretty North Korea-like, IMO.

 

I get that there are Troll jobs and mean-spirited posts on here, but they are few and far between. For every post like that there are a dozen Apollo-like posts, so I don’t get the SJW witch hunt message in the OP. 

 

Say whatever you want to say on here, as long as it’s within the forum rules.

Say OJ and JV were the wrong picks.

Say EP is McJesus 2.0.

 

Say Zepp should shut up about what others can say on here.

 

 

Exhibit A: Someone that does a terrible job of interpreting the prevalence of posters that are unreasonably positive. 

 

Exhibit B: Someone that, for years, just says the same thing over and over again regardless of its relatedness to the topic (WTF does this have to do with SJW).

 

189 is actually more like the crazy SJW you see on Twitter, in that the one thing he shares in common with them is a refusal to change their mind in face of evidence against their point. 

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I love this topic, great question.

 

For me I want the Canucks to draft specific prospects that may or may not be in the organizations best interest. 

 

Take Tkatchuk for example. Whether you agree or not I love power forwards who can score, so I wanted him.

 

Does that mean OJ is bad? Probably not. But I sure don't like the pick. Am I right? Probably not.....but that is human bias.

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3 hours ago, Alflives said:

To be completely honest, I don’t really play the piano.  

B85F8B2B-A3BF-4107-92C6-485F2E2EB66F.gif

 

That reminds me of the old joke, Doctor will i be able to play the piano? 

 

 

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6 hours ago, Alflives said:

I think we have fans of other teams, who are infiltrating our board, especially ones who’s teams don’t have active boards.  Those posters make some nasty comments about our players, and our city.  They are, of course, entitled to their opinions.  

I agree we as a fan base have pissed off the biggest IDIOTS/GOOFS out there these PUKES are dedicated to their hatred of our team/fanbase these sorry #&* LOSERS come here to try and get under our skin daily.

ps: It makes me happy to know we are in their half witt heads poor losers don’t know we own them they can’t help but follow along the sorry goofs!!!

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I find it hard to be critical of any player that has made the NHL. What are the percentages of players who try but never make it to the ones who do. It's quite an accomplishment to make the NHL if you ask me. There isn't one single player in the NHL that I am more successful than when it comes to carreer . 

But one component I think we have the right to be critical of is effort and that applies to any age. For example Lou Erikson has taken a crapload of criticism on this board. I wondered what was wrong with him. Obviously not contributing like his pay scale but why? Who knows?  Then when I watched the Boston game where he got two goals. I saw another level of effort there from him that I hadn't seen before. That really bugged me so now I am critical of him. 

At any rate these young players have to be mentally tough enough to deal with that and probably coaching should help with that. 

Didn't the sedins almost pack up and head home at one point?  

Glad they didn't .  

fanuck hit the nail on the head when he said this is just a reflection of society in general. 

Always has been, always will be like this .

It's life .  

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Media knows that negativity sells and know that a lot of their audience will lap up whatever they dish out.  Except for a few ( Bert, Ferraro, Taylor) the majority of the Vancouver media are like Dave and what his last name really means .. Prat that Prattle!

 

 

 

 

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I don’t know much but I do know JV is going to have a gangster ass season next year. 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Down by the River said:

Exhibit A: Someone that does a terrible job of interpreting the prevalence of posters that are unreasonably positive. 

 

Exhibit B: Someone that, for years, just says the same thing over and over again regardless of its relatedness to the topic (WTF does this have to do with SJW).

 

189 is actually more like the crazy SJW you see on Twitter, in that the one thing he shares in common with them is a refusal to change their mind in face of evidence against their point. 

Which opinion am I currently wrong about?

I change my mind daily on all sorts of things. Be more specific. 

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A few reasons, but it basically boils down to self loathing, like basically all negative behavior.  This being said, being critical is not always overly critical.  If you look around the league, every single team whiffs on 1st rounders.  There is only 22 spots on a team.  Good luck cracking that nut.  Anyone that does, even when they are a bubble player, is a pretty damn good hockey player.

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