Vancouver out despite being awarded a 2026 World Cup host spot

[JM_]

10 hours ago, Toews said:

 

I believe that sentiment just displays the lack of ambition. We are content where we are when there is potential for much more.

 

this is what bothers me about the idea of proportional government in BC, I suspect if that goes through its the last time we'll see a major project or event here, there are just so many people in BC ready with a "no" to anything and everything. 

[lmm]

20 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

 its just marketing. 

well yes, I agree with you there.

to what end?

[JM_]

21 minutes ago, lmm said:

well yes, I agree with you there.

to what end?

I suppose it all depends on where you think business opportunities come from. If you're in the it'll just happen anyway or someone else will do it camp, then sure saying no to things is easy, you're not the one trying to create opportunities. 

 

I just think this decisions represents a certain segment of the anti-development anti-business crowd in BC. Is it the end of the world? Of course not, but it was an easy win. The risk was way over blown, in part because I think the NDP doesn't know how to calculate or understand when to take business risks. This event was a no-brainer imo. 

[Toews]

11 hours ago, lmm said:

Why do so many Canadians and specifically BCers have such an Ugly Sister Complex?

Every time an organization, or any type of attention comes calling we have to fall all over ourselves at accomodate the "global attention".

Are we really so attention starved that we need to jump up and down and wave our arms every time some one might be watching?

Why Jimmy? Why?

Did our mothers not tell us we were good, strong, smart, pretty, hansom enough? 

 

What did we NOT prove during the Olympics that we need to prove it all over again.

 

 

Actually my complex is that just about all of our uglier sisters are headed to the ball. We maybe pretty but no one will notice when we are sitting at home. 

[Warhippy]

Another reason why it was good to not write a blank cheque to FIFA.  Estimates now usually increase almost universally.  $30 million turns in to $300 million really quickly

 

Sixteen North American host cites have been proposed, and the Canadian sites are Toronto, Montreal and Edmonton. Games would be played at BMO Field in Toronto, Olympic Stadium in Montreal and Commonwealth Stadium in Edmonton.  

But even though the bid has been accepted, it doesn't mean Canada is guaranteed 10 games in those three cities come 2026. Canada's allotment could be reduced as the FIFA council — a 30-plus-member board overseen by Gianni Infantino, the president of soccer's world governing body — has the final say on the number of games each country gets and the specific locations.

"The problem is, with events of this magnitude, there are huge costs as well," says Prof. Simon Chadwick, a director of the Centre of Sports Business at Salford University in the United Kingdom. "Sometimes people talking about the benefits are somewhat disingenuous as they talk about the benefits without talking about the costs. The net economic benefits for these type of mega events tends to be marginal."For example, Toronto municipal officials have estimated it would cost the city between $30 million and $45 million to host three to five World Cup games, including potential stadium upgrades at BMO Field. Those figures don't include security costs, which can be hard to predict. For example, security costs for the Vancouver Olympics were originally estimated to be $175 million. The final price tag ended up being $900 million.

[JM_]

6 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Another reason why it was good to not write a blank cheque to FIFA.  Estimates now usually increase almost universally.  $30 million turns in to $300 million really quickly

 

Sixteen North American host cites have been proposed, and the Canadian sites are Toronto, Montreal and Edmonton. Games would be played at BMO Field in Toronto, Olympic Stadium in Montreal and Commonwealth Stadium in Edmonton.  

But even though the bid has been accepted, it doesn't mean Canada is guaranteed 10 games in those three cities come 2026. Canada's allotment could be reduced as the FIFA council — a 30-plus-member board overseen by Gianni Infantino, the president of soccer's world governing body — has the final say on the number of games each country gets and the specific locations.

"The problem is, with events of this magnitude, there are huge costs as well," says Prof. Simon Chadwick, a director of the Centre of Sports Business at Salford University in the United Kingdom. "Sometimes people talking about the benefits are somewhat disingenuous as they talk about the benefits without talking about the costs. The net economic benefits for these type of mega events tends to be marginal."For example, Toronto municipal officials have estimated it would cost the city between $30 million and $45 million to host three to five World Cup games, including potential stadium upgrades at BMO Field. Those figures don't include security costs, which can be hard to predict. For example, security costs for the Vancouver Olympics were originally estimated to be $175 million. The final price tag ended up being $900 million.

 

Vancouver 2010 Winter Olympics debt-free, VANOC final report says

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/vancouver-2010-winter-olympics-debt-free-vanoc-final-report-says-1.2695994

 

We have a core group of people in this city that know how to manage the risks of big events. That 10X multiplier is the kind of overblown risk I'm talking about, thats out of nowhere and way out of scale for the 2-3 games BC would get. 

 

[peaches5]

2 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

whatever, go get some actual facts on it. Not interested in having this kind of discussion with you. 

damn, look at all those facts you posted. 

[Warhippy]

19 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

Vancouver 2010 Winter Olympics debt-free, VANOC final report says

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/vancouver-2010-winter-olympics-debt-free-vanoc-final-report-says-1.2695994

 

We have a core group of people in this city that know how to manage the risks of big events. That 10X multiplier is the kind of overblown risk I'm talking about, thats out of nowhere and way out of scale for the 2-3 games BC would get. 

 

So in essence it took 4+ years to pay off the 2010 bid and Vancouver made????

 

The funding as of 2006

 

VANOC'S FUNDING

- Provincial Government: $600 million (venues)

- Federal Government: $545 million (venues, security)

- Domestic Sponsorship/Rights: aimed for $500 million (VANOC has successfully collected domestic corporate funding and has now reached $600 million, exceeding the original estimate. VANOC is expecting it will hit $750 million in this category of funding by 2008.)

- The Olympic Partner International Sponsorship and IOC TV Rights: 2003 estimate was $464 million (but contracts have been record extremely high and it's quite possible VANOC could receive as much as $600-700 million).

TOTAL EXPENDITURES: $2.1 BILLION

TOTAL REVENUE (funding): in process

 

The total price tag after all tallied 2013

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/vancouver-olympics-worth-the-7-billion-price-tag-study-says/article15036916/

 

Essentially Vancouver broke even 4 years after but the total cost between federal and provincial sources was over $7 billion all told.

 

But again, and this is VERY important to understand.  FIFA has already said that the games are almost 9 years away and that there is no certainty that vancouver is out of the running, as much as there is no certainty that had they paid up front; they'd be getting any meaningful games to begin with.

 

So while people keep whinging, because that's what people like to do.  They neglect the simple truths.  $30 million now is not $30 million in 8.5 years.  Zero games now is not zero games in 8.5 years and most importantly

 

FIFA has a long sordid history of corruption and giving them a blank cheque is essentially asking to be screwed over.

[JM_]

Just now, peaches5 said:

damn, look at all those facts you posted. 

if you care to look you can find the actual info, like how foreign ownership isn't a big number or nearly as big a factor as cheap mortgages and lines of credit, but you do you. 

[JM_]

1 minute ago, Warhippy said:

So in essence it took 4+ years to pay off the 2010 bid and Vancouver made????

 

The funding as of 2006

 

VANOC'S FUNDING

- Provincial Government: $600 million (venues)

- Federal Government: $545 million (venues, security)

- Domestic Sponsorship/Rights: aimed for $500 million (VANOC has successfully collected domestic corporate funding and has now reached $600 million, exceeding the original estimate. VANOC is expecting it will hit $750 million in this category of funding by 2008.)

- The Olympic Partner International Sponsorship and IOC TV Rights: 2003 estimate was $464 million (but contracts have been record extremely high and it's quite possible VANOC could receive as much as $600-700 million).

TOTAL EXPENDITURES: $2.1 BILLION

TOTAL REVENUE (funding): in process

 

The total price tag after all tallied 2013

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/vancouver-olympics-worth-the-7-billion-price-tag-study-says/article15036916/

 

Essentially Vancouver broke even 4 years after but the total cost between federal and provincial sources was over $7 billion all told.

 

But again, and this is VERY important to understand.  FIFA has already said that the games are almost 9 years away and that there is no certainty that vancouver is out of the running, as much as there is no certainty that had they paid up front; they'd be getting any meaningful games to begin with.

 

So while people keep whinging, because that's what people like to do.  They neglect the simple truths.  $30 million now is not $30 million in 8.5 years.  Zero games now is not zero games in 8.5 years and most importantly

 

FIFA has a long sordid history of corruption and giving them a blank cheque is essentially asking to be screwed over.

The BC NDP have taken Vancouver out of the running, and they are defending that position, its not FIFA that made the decision. Whats going to change to make the NDP reverse it now? 

 

Like I said, show me any major sporting group that hasn't had corruption at the top at one time or another. And as someone else posted above, it looks like its being cleaned up to some degree. Thats not a good enough reason to hold back on hosting an event. 

 

 

[Warhippy]

3 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

The BC NDP have taken Vancouver out of the running, and they are defending that position, its not FIFA that made the decision. Whats going to change to make the NDP reverse it now? 

 

Like I said, show me any major sporting group that hasn't had corruption at the top at one time or another. And as someone else posted above, it looks like its being cleaned up to some degree. Thats not a good enough reason to hold back on hosting an event. 

 

 

Just stop.  Start a crowdfunding project for it if you're so bent

 

As for what will change?  Go read the FIFA's comments about host cities for 2026 and the possibilities of them including Chicago, Vancouver, Minneapolis etc.  As well go look where they state clearly

 

THEY WILL MOVE MATCHES AS THEY SEE FIT

 

Imagine shelling out $30 million now, another $40 million later.  Say $350 million by 2026 and finding out vancouver gets 2 whole games.  Prelim games to boot.  The bulk of the real matches go to LA, Houston, New York etc 

 

This is not a fear it's a bonafide potential issue.  And I for one sure as hell don't want my tax dollars wasted on this.  I've posted numerous reasons why it's not a terrible thing that Vancouver is not included initially.  I've also clearly stated with with almost 9 years to go it isn't unlikely vancouver ends up with a game or two.

 

The crying is old.  BC needs a new past time

[Tre Mac]

18 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

 

Like I said, show me any major sporting group that hasn't had corruption at the top at one time or another. And as someone else posted above, it looks like its being cleaned up to some degree. Thats not a good enough reason to hold back on hosting an event

Dam right it is.  The demands are ridiculous, as is any contract that stipulates 'we reserve the right to make changes at any time and the cost is to be past on to you.'

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Just stop.  Start a crowdfunding project for it if you're so bent

 

As for what will change?  Go read the FIFA's comments about host cities for 2026 and the possibilities of them including Chicago, Vancouver, Minneapolis etc.  As well go look where they state clearly

 

THEY WILL MOVE MATCHES AS THEY SEE FIT

 

Imagine shelling out $30 million now, another $40 million later.  Say $350 million by 2026 and finding out vancouver gets 2 whole games.  Prelim games to boot.  The bulk of the real matches go to LA, Houston, New York etc 

 

This is not a fear it's a bonafide potential issue.  And I for one sure as hell don't want my tax dollars wasted on this.  I've posted numerous reasons why it's not a terrible thing that Vancouver is not included initially.  I've also clearly stated with with almost 9 years to go it isn't unlikely vancouver ends up with a game or two.

 

The crying is old.  BC needs a new past time

You stop. All you've posted is mythical price hikes and now you're the one fear mongering, you usually call out others for that. You're being an apologist for Horgan on this one Hip, it was his decision to kill this, it doesn't matter if FIFA still wants us as a host city, the NDP doesn't want it at BC Place. At least admit this is on Horgan. 

[JM_]

3 minutes ago, Tre Mac said:

Dam right it is.  The demands are ridiculous, as is any contract that stipulates 'we reserve the right to make changes at any time and the cost is to be past on to you.'

hey they swing a big one and can dictate terms. Its not in their interest to crush cities into financial disaster btw, that would end their business in a hurry. 

[Warhippy]

6 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

You stop. All you've posted is mythical price hikes and now you're the one fear mongering, you usually call out others for that. You're being an apologist for Horgan on this one Hip, it was his decision to kill this, it doesn't matter if FIFA still wants us as a host city, the NDP doesn't want it at BC Place. At least admit this is on Horgan. 

Mythical my a55 .  I've posted numerous links and articles with supporting evidence and historical basis.  You respond with more whining

 

The terms of the contract are vital.  Not having guarantees.  essentially being told it's a blank cheque.  It's a pitfall no intelligent person would step on

 

You're whining.  That's it.

 

I'm not admitting anything is on Horgan except him saving taxpayers money.  

 

Now come back, mumble something about a missed opportunity.  present no credible alternative or supporting argument that ensures we'd not be screwed over by an entity that has a history of it or just let it be because I am quite done.

[peaches5]

25 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

if you care to look you can find the actual info, like how foreign ownership isn't a big number or nearly as big a factor as cheap mortgages and lines of credit, but you do you. 

The government has done a very poor job of tracking foreign buyers. They don't tell you how many citizens of Canada bought the homes they specifically say, nonresidents. They don't properly track where the money came from. The Chinese have set up specific systems to fly under the radar. One of many ways is students from China come over here and their parents buy them a home in their name so it doesn't count as a foreigner buyer according to the government as they are getting school. 

 

Keep believing what the government force feeds you. It wasn't Canadian citizens buying properties 100% over their value. 

[JM_]

3 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Mythical my a55 .  I've posted numerous links and articles with supporting evidence and historical basis.  You respond with more whining

 

The terms of the contract are vital.  Not having guarantees.  essentially being told it's a blank cheque.  It's a pitfall no intelligent person would step on

 

You're whining.  That's it.

 

I'm not admitting anything is on Horgan except him saving taxpayers money.  

 

Now come back, mumble something about a missed opportunity.  present no credible alternative or supporting argument that ensures we'd not be screwed over by an entity that has a history of it or just let it be because I am quite done.

Looks to me like you can't post a reasonable response so out comes the name calling, you're better than that. Or better yet, put me on your ignore list. 

[JM_]

8 minutes ago, peaches5 said:

The government has done a very poor job of tracking foreign buyers. They don't tell you how many citizens of Canada bought the homes they specifically say, nonresidents. They don't properly track where the money came from. The Chinese have set up specific systems to fly under the radar. One of many ways is students from China come over here and their parents buy them a home in their name so it doesn't count as a foreigner buyer according to the government as they are getting school. 

 

Keep believing what the government force feeds you. It wasn't Canadian citizens buying properties 100% over their value. 

I'm not going off government info. The better sources are directly from the banks. If you go there, you'll see that over 90% of the home sales are amongst Canadians due to cheap money. Its happening all over the country. Chinese investors are targeting cities all over the world, its not unique to BC and none of them track where their money comes from either. 

[Jaimito]

19 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

meh, I live in Vancouver and tax dollars from here go to support things in the interior. Thats not a great argument. 

 

Its a missed opportunity for global attention.

yup, paying $100k last yr for taxes to help the homeless and medical care for all and I don't even live in Canada anymore.  We all have to pitch in.  

[JM_]

5 minutes ago, Jaimito said:

yup, paying $100k last yr for taxes to help the homeless and medical care for all and I don't even live in Canada anymore.  We all have to pitch in.  

I don't mind the taxes I pay here, at least in Canada it goes to the right places most of time