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Bouchard vs. Dobson - The Athletic's in-depth analysis

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1 hour ago, vinny_in_vancouver said:

There are many flavours of a franchise D-man: Karlsson, Subban, Doughty, Burns, Pronger, Lidstrom, etc. are all different. Boqvist reminds a lot of Karlsson, but one can argue that Noah Dobson who is still young could grow into one of those bigger D-men. He already has very good edge work, size, hockey IQ, leadership ability, playmaking, great stick work and an underrated shot. Last year, he was assigned Pierre Luc Dubois during the playoffs and pretty much shut him down. This year, he really improved.

There has been nothing like this very young Boqvist kid available in the draft for a long time, save Dahlin. Boqvist plays the game with similar skills of an elite forward, not just as on offensively-minded Dman. 

 

Lots of talk about Dobson and his young age, representing time to develop. Applied to AB, this projection-game would have him hyped into the stratosphere.

 

I bet that if Boqvist was a Canadian kid, Dobson/Bouchard would be 3rd page news. His skating, edgework and agility get lost while scribblers drool over his puck skills and vision.

 

I haven’t seen the Canadian kids do anything that Boqvist doesn’t do better, except for hit and play a better D-game, albeit in a small rink, which isn’t a true lateral for comparison anyways, so moot/subjective point, IMO.

 

Every player will have a weakness, well, except maybe Borque and Lidstrom, Chara, Pronger, hmm, ya, defence matters, but elite role players do as well, like AB figures to be. 

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4 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

There has been nothing like this very young Boqvist kid available in the draft for a long time, save Dahlin. Boqvist plays the game with similar skills of an elite forward, not just as on offensively-minded Dman. 

 

Lots of talk about Dobson and his young age, representing time to develop. Applied to AB, this projection-game would have him hyped into the stratosphere.

 

I bet that if Boqvist was a Canadian kid, Dobson/Bouchard would be 3rd page news. His skating, edgework and agility get lost while scribblers drool over his puck skills and vision.

 

I haven’t seen the Canadian kids do anything that Boqvist doesn’t do better, except for hit and play a better D-game, albeit in a small rink, which isn’t a true lateral for comparison anyways, so moot/subjective point, IMO.

 

Every player will have a weakness, well, except maybe Borque and Lidstrom, Chara, Pronger, hmm, ya, defence matters, but elite role players do as well, like AB figures to be. 

Bang on correct.  Boqvist is going to become a super star in this league.  Look at Makar from a couple years back.  That guy was considered a can't miss offensive dynamo.  Yet, he played in the lowest of the low leagues possible.  If Boqvist played in the AJHL, he would have scored a million points!  He's apparently going to play for the London Knights next season.  I bet he lights up the OHL.  

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38 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Bang on correct.  Boqvist is going to become a super star in this league.  Look at Makar from a couple years back.  That guy was considered a can't miss offensive dynamo.  Yet, he played in the lowest of the low leagues possible.  If Boqvist played in the AJHL, he would have scored a million points!  He's apparently going to play for the London Knights next season.  I bet he lights up the OHL.  

While I like Boqvist, he does have some question marks as well. There are the 2 concussions this past year. Two in a year is a lot. Also, from Craig Button via http://edmontonsun.com/sports/hockey/nhl/edmonton-oilers/edmonton-oilers-have-seemingly-narrowed-their-draft-choice-to-four-players: "And there’s no denying Boqvist’s skill, everybody can see his talent, but like I told his agent the other day, his playing attitude has to change. He is laissez faire too much for my liking and that affects every area of his game. It’s a decision he has to make to be a consistently good player who can impact the game. I think it’s developmental. Like I told his agent, will is a skill." If he does play for the London Knights, that should be good for him improving his D because as Bouchard says about the program there, if somebody doesn't play D, he's not going to play much.

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Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, vinny_in_vancouver said:

While I like Boqvist, he does have some question marks as well. There are the 2 concussions this past year. Two in a year is a lot. Also, from Craig Button via http://edmontonsun.com/sports/hockey/nhl/edmonton-oilers/edmonton-oilers-have-seemingly-narrowed-their-draft-choice-to-four-players: "And there’s no denying Boqvist’s skill, everybody can see his talent, but like I told his agent the other day, his playing attitude has to change. He is laissez faire too much for my liking and that affects every area of his game. It’s a decision he has to make to be a consistently good player who can impact the game. I think it’s developmental. Like I told his agent, will is a skill." If he does play for the London Knights, that should be good for him improving his D because as Bouchard says about the program there, if somebody doesn't play D, he's not going to play much.

Suggesting he doesn’t play D well enough to get ice time here is laughable, though I get the point and reference. Let’s not attack him because he’s not as good defensively as he is offensively. He’s not Dahlin. These guys need to be realistic in how much expectation is placed on him being a complete package. 

 

AB is playing on a massive sheet of ice where he has time to do his thing, at his own calculated time. Everything looks slower on bigger ice, as there is more time to make decisions. I’d say at least a fraction of any statement about his desire could be viewed within that scope, so some of this is situational, but without having watched a single live game of his, I’m just another poser hack. 

 

He scored the two goals in a 3-2 OT loss to Canada at the U18s. Was he too casual and sleepy then, Canadian scout? 

 

If you want a balanced, heart-and-soul, determined player, draft them in the second or third round.

If you want skill, but with desire issues, those are typically found at the end of the first round, generally speaking. 

Skill, without concern is found in the top of the draft, where AB is not ranked. 

 

Of course he should and will play for the Knights and be developed into a more rounded player. He’s still a few years away from being an option for an NHL club. He is appealing now because of how refined his skills and vision are already, being so young, and knowing he has time on his side, to develop into the mold of a Karlsson. 

 

The concussion issue is too subjective in reporting and severity to handicap his game against. I bet several of these top kids have had concussions, some may choose to hide it as to not let it effect their chance at signing an ELC for 800k. 

 

 

Edited by 189lb enforcers?

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I will bet that Boqvist drops out of the top ten. Small , soft , poor defensively and concussion problems. What's not to like?

Bouchard and Dobson are going to both be work horses! Bouchard could become a star.

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11 minutes ago, appleboy said:

I will bet that Boqvist drops out of the top ten. Small , soft , poor defensively and concussion problems. What's not to like?

Bouchard and Dobson are going to both be work horses! Bouchard could become a star.

In the prediction thread, I have AB going 8th to CHI and Hughs at # 10 to the Coilers. 

Could be any variation in the rotation, I think. 

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15 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

In the prediction thread, I have AB going 8th to CHI and Hughs at # 10 to the Coilers. 

Could be any variation in the rotation, I think. 

I have been reading a ton of articles as I'm sure most of us have. Boqvist makes me nervous.  Every year there is someone who gets picked lower or maybe even moves up who pans out better. One D man that I am beginning to really like is Ty Smyth.  If Bouchard, Dobson and Hughes are gone I wonder if he moves up. He is already one of the better defensive blue liners. High end mobility.  He will probably hit 190lb plus. He seems to have few weaknesses.

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35 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Suggesting he doesn’t play D well enough to get ice time here is laughable, though I get the point and reference. Let’s not attack him because he’s not as good defensively as he is offensively. He’s not Dahlin. These guys need to be realistic in how much expectation is placed on him being a complete package. 

 

I have a bit of a soft spot for Boqvist because just like my son, he's dyslexic. Adam Boqvist announced it during the NHL combine which imho was quite brave of him because it could negatively affect his draft standing. My son (who played hockey at a high level) is also ADHD inattentive and often, dyslexia comes with ADHD. When my son's ADHD isn't kicking in, he's one of the hardest workers (other parents' and coaches' words) on the ice, but when it kicks in, he is in danger of getting a concussion as he just gets distracted so easily. It makes me wonder whether the laissez-faire attitude that Boqvist is accused of is somehow due to distraction rather than attitude...

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Bob McKenzie labeled this one the 1-3-4 draft, based on 1 D (Dahlin) - 3 W (Zadina, Tkachuk, Svechnikov), and 4 D (Hughes, Dobson, Bouchard, Boqvist). He also mentioned that Kotkaniemi's rampant rise into the top 5 has scattered things a bit. That said, of the 4 D available to us, I'd probably rank them 1. Bouchard, 2. Hughes, 3. Dobson, and 4. Boqvist. McKenzie also went on to mention that of those 4 D, Boqvist was consistently ranked last of 4 D from the 10 scouts he spoke to (from the Bobcast).

 

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7 hours ago, vinny_in_vancouver said:

I have a bit of a soft spot for Boqvist because just like my son, he's dyslexic. Adam Boqvist announced it during the NHL combine which imho was quite brave of him because it could negatively affect his draft standing. My son (who played hockey at a high level) is also ADHD inattentive and often, dyslexia comes with ADHD. When my son's ADHD isn't kicking in, he's one of the hardest workers (other parents' and coaches' words) on the ice, but when it kicks in, he is in danger of getting a concussion as he just gets distracted so easily. It makes me wonder whether the laissez-faire attitude that Boqvist is accused of is somehow due to distraction rather than attitude...

Thanks for sharing that. Very insightful, new perspective. 

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Posted (edited)
23 hours ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

There has been nothing like this very young Boqvist kid available in the draft for a long time, save Dahlin. Boqvist plays the game with similar skills of an elite forward, not just as on offensively-minded Dman. 

 

Lots of talk about Dobson and his young age, representing time to develop. Applied to AB, this projection-game would have him hyped into the stratosphere.

 

I bet that if Boqvist was a Canadian kid, Dobson/Bouchard would be 3rd page news. His skating, edgework and agility get lost while scribblers drool over his puck skills and vision.

 

I haven’t seen the Canadian kids do anything that Boqvist doesn’t do better, except for hit and play a better D-game, albeit in a small rink, which isn’t a true lateral for comparison anyways, so moot/subjective point, IMO.

 

Every player will have a weakness, well, except maybe Borque and Lidstrom, Chara, Pronger, hmm, ya, defence matters, but elite role players do as well, like AB figures to be. 

AB is also slight, has two concussions this season playing jr in Sweden... let’s repeat, 2 concussions playing jr in Sweden.  That’s a big question mark and he is a defensive black hole currently. 

 

He is a lotto ticket. Truly the biggest knock on him is the bust potential, EK2.0 or bust. How likely is he to bust, very, how likely is he to become EK 2.0, maybe. 

 

Whereas Dobson can’t miss. He may not translate to a legit two pairing, number one d man, but he will be a solid top four at the least. His ceiling is that of Peterangelo and his floor is Brett Hedican.  Both players would be very welcome in a nucks jersey. 

 

Can we afford to gamble with our hips this draft?  That’s the question.  If both players hit their ceiling, well the choice between a complete number one Dobson and EK 2.0 is fair, the impact on the win colum isn’t as clear. We need both types of d men, and currently there are none in the system.  

 

Then there is Bouchard. Elite offensive guy like AB but has a more projectable frame, leadership and already in NA. Is it more likely that his skating improves rather than AB’s ability to play any defence and mature physically without any more head trauma.  Well that is a coin toss but we have seen players drafted fix their skating a lot more than not.  

 

Its all about who game is more likely to translate and who has more correctable weaknesses. To me the risk with AB is very high. I want a bigger gaurantee that a top 10 pick will be a player we can count on moving forward. Gamble with the second pick or ad a pick. Take them surest bet with number 7. 

 

 

Edited by Eastcoast meets Westcoast

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1 hour ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said:

AB is also slight, has two concussions this season playing jr in Sweden... let’s repeat, 2 concussions playing jr in Sweden.  That’s a big question mark and he is a defensive black hole currently. 

 

He is a lotto ticket. Truly the biggest knock on him is the bust potential, EK2.0 or bust. How likely is he to bust, very, how likely is he to become EK 2.0, maybe. 

 

Whereas Dobson can’t miss. He may not translate to a legit two pairing, number one d man, but he will be a solid top four at the least. His ceiling is that of Peterangelo and his floor is Brett Hedican.  Both players would be very welcome in a nucks jersey. 

 

Can we afford to gamble with our hips this draft?  That’s the question.  If both players hit their ceiling, well the choice between a complete number one Dobson and EK 2.0 is fair, the impact on the win colum isn’t as clear. We need both types of d men, and currently there are none in the system.  

 

Then there is Bouchard. Elite offensive guy like AB but has a more projectable frame, leadership and already in NA. Is it more likely that his skating improves rather than AB’s ability to play any defence and mature physically without any more head trauma.  Well that is a coin toss but we have seen players drafted fix their skating a lot more than not.  

 

Its all about who game is more likely to translate and who has more correctable weaknesses. To me the risk with AB is very high. I want a bigger gaurantee that a top 10 pick will be a player we can count on moving forward. Gamble with the second pick or ad a pick. Take them surest bet with number 7. 

 

 

How many games have you watched AB play in? 

How many of Games have you watched any of these top Dmen play?

 

I am not asking to be snarky. You make several statements with conviction, beginning with AB being “a black hole, defensively”, which is strange considering his assignments are said to include the shut-down pairing on his team.

 

I’m not in Sweden, I’m in Kamloops. I’ve watched far less of AB than you apparently have, but I’ve never heard his defensive play referred to as suspect beyond his disadvantaged, young frame. I’ve heard he could be better, I’m guessing they all could be better defensively.

 

I like Bouchard and Dobson for the safe reasoning you do. I suppose we also both recognize the crazy high-end potential young AB brings. 

 

Regardless, all of us are hours away from what we’ve been waiting a year for. I’m so excited that I’m distracted. Maggie the Monkey could get this pick right, as I’m sure JB will. 

 

If BTis available at 7, I take him even if all 4 of the Dmen are still there. Out of those four, I probably do take Dobson. Like I said before, you can’t go wrong picking one out of the 4 Dmen, but it would give be a nose bleed trying to pick one. 

 

I can’t wait. 

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On 6/15/2018 at 9:58 AM, oldnews said:

I don't know what all the pick hype is about though.

It's all relative.

 

What I really want to know is who Calgary is going to take with their 4th round pick.

Someone truculent to honour their fallen GM.

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20 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

If BTis available at 7, I take him even if all 4 of the Dmen are still there. Out of those four, I probably do take Dobson. Like I said before, you can’t go wrong picking one out of the 4 Dmen, but it would give be a nose bleed trying to pick one. 

 

I can’t wait. 

Am I  crazy to want one of those 4 dmen over Tkachuk?

 

Don't get me wrong, I think Tkachuk will be good and I'd be perfectly happy with him on the Canucks.  I think everyone agrees picking BPA then use position as a tie breaker.  To me, Tkachuk is on the same tier as those 4 D so I'd prefer to use the tie break and pick for positional need.

 

Maybe I haven't followed Tkachuk enough and am underrating him, not sure.  I guess we'll see in over an hour :emot-parrot:

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Posted (edited)

Don't know if anyone else dreamed up this one, but thinking out loud...

Benning signed Granlund today, for a reasonable one year contract.

Why today, just ahead of the draft?

Is Granlund possibly part of a deal to move from 7 to 4 in the draft?

So they can snag Dobson?

 

...or move up in the second round for a better shot at someone they have their eyes on?

Edited by springer

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On 2018-06-18 at 3:47 PM, CanuckleHorse said:

How far off these two is this young fella?

 

 

Seems like almost a whole round...

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On 2018-06-21 at 12:52 PM, Alflives said:

Bang on correct.  Boqvist is going to become a super star in this league.  Look at Makar from a couple years back.  That guy was considered a can't miss offensive dynamo.  Yet, he played in the lowest of the low leagues possible.  If Boqvist played in the AJHL, he would have scored a million points!  He's apparently going to play for the London Knights next season.  I bet he lights up the OHL.  

Boqvist still wentsecond in that run of D.

7th OA is par with his rank all year. 

 

Dobson was last, but Bouchard went 10th. 

 

That settles it, for me. 

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