ChuckNORRIS4Cup Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 Markstrom has gotten worse ever since Cloutier took over that's not right, at least someone higher up is seeing the bigger picture finally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt kilgore Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 1 hour ago, brownky said: Why do you feel this way? He might be a good goalie coach. He might be a crap one. His skills as a player mean approximately nothing as far as his skills as a coach go. Being able to see what the player(s) cannot, and find a way to fix it. That's what makes a good coach - goalie or otherwise. The methods vary to the individual, as do what each individual respond to. One thing people could never accuse Cloutier of is a lack of battle - And that's usually a good thing from any coach. A desire to win is infectious. I learned so much from an old man coach who could barely skate, pass or shoot. But he could see the game in a way that we idiot players couldn't, he could think the game from the perspective of what was missing AND what was there - not just one or the other. A lot of people are exceptional at seeing what is there OR what is missing, and maybe be okay at the other side too. He could Articulate what he saw and thought... and that made everybody who took the time to listen and work a much better player. That's a good coach. Did Cloutier bring that? Maybe. Maybe not. But unless you were coached by him, you have absolutely no idea. So arguing he was a bad coach on the basis that Lidstrom sent one past him from centre is just biased idiocy. I don't think "battle" or a "desire to win" is much of an advantage for an assistant coach. Maybe for the head coach as part of his job is pregame speeches etc...In fact it may be a detriment for a goalie coach to be too hot headed. Passion to win is what the player should be infused with, not the specialist coaches. Their goal should be to dispassionately assess and implement strategies for each goalie depending on their best and worst aspects they need to work on. That is where their passion should reside. Their job is to improve the player each and every game, which SHOULD lead to more wins, but is not guaranteed as other players on the team have a lot to do with it too. I have no idea if Cloutier was a good coach and its a matter of 'who ya going to fire? not the players' or if he wasn't up to snuff. But the goaltenders did seem to degenerate while he was head goalie coach. A first time coach, if you discount a one season stint with one junior hockey team where the goalies also had a losing record under him, and a good pal of the President gets a gift job out of nowhere. I would hope he was on a short leash. Glad he's gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB5 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 5 hours ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said: Markstrom has gotten worse ever since Cloutier took over that's not right, at least someone higher up is seeing the bigger picture finally. How so? Markstrom has never been an NHL starter prior to this year and his numbers align with the previous 3 seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckNORRIS4Cup Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 24 minutes ago, GarthButcher5 said: How so? Markstrom has never been an NHL starter prior to this year and his numbers align with the previous 3 seasons. By just watching him in games especially his style, he's down on his knees more it seems and their is way more open net behind him then the way he used to play. It's like he's playing as a smaller goalie then he is, his style actually used to remind me of Luongo's used to take up way more of the net, now it doesn't seem like that in his style anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nergish Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 11 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said: “goaltending is seemingly much easier - if you are positionally solid you will probably stop more than 90% of the shots coming your way so your job is to work on the last 10% - if you can even say 1/5th of those you will be elite". I know that sounds beyond simplistic but it resonated with me. This is it. People like Dom Hasek and Timothy Jr. Thomas are proof positive. If you hate being scored on, like it offends you to be beaten, you’ll be a good goalie. Marty Brodeur was never really a ripped physical athlete, he just understood the role so well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyCuddles Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 11 hours ago, tas said: vancouver fans dump this at cloutier's feet because of unfair resentment they hold towards him from 15 years ago. in reality, neither markstrom nor nilsson are nhl calibre starters and never will be, and when you only have 2 quality top 4 defencemen on the team, that really compounds the issue. No one cares about facts. No one cares that we lost Edler for like 12 games (pretty sure we lost him and Tanev around the same time too), Tanev for 40 games, Gudbranson for 30 games. We have 2 legit top 4 D like you said, and a fringe top 4 guy in Gudbranson. And all 3 missed a fair chunk of games. No one cares that we have 2 backup goalies. It's Cloutier's fault. This fanbase's built up hate for Cloutier is pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xereau Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 Clouts is going to be in charge of the blowing up and tossing of the beach balls you occasionally see bouncing around the crowd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoneypuckOverlord Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 https://goo.gl/images/QpD4vx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Standing_Tall#37 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 9 hours ago, N7Nucks said: No one cares about facts. No one cares that we lost Edler for like 12 games (pretty sure we lost him and Tanev around the same time too), Tanev for 40 games, Gudbranson for 30 games. We have 2 legit top 4 D like you said, and a fringe top 4 guy in Gudbranson. And all 3 missed a fair chunk of games. No one cares that we have 2 backup goalies. It's Cloutier's fault. This fanbase's built up hate for Cloutier is pathetic. Or that Markstrom has a career .908 save % and Nilsson has a career .907 save%, which puts them both in the bottom 10 of that category amongst the 64 starters with at least 40 starts to their name.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Standing_Tall#37 said: Or that Markstrom has a career .908 save % and Nilsson has a career .907 save%, which puts them both in the bottom 10 of that category amongst the 64 starters with at least 40 starts to their name.. While statistics are important to compare things, this stat can be misleading when players are on teams that give up a lot of quality chances. I think the WHC showed that - Nilsson got games behind a strong defensive team and, voila, .930 and above. These two do not have a ton of starts yet in their careers. I think with some tweaks they have ability to vastly improve but also I think as the Canucks address their defensive game, that will be a huge contributor to "hey, the Canuck goalies are better...look at the stats". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB5 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 12 hours ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said: By just watching him in games especially his style, he's down on his knees more it seems and their is way more open net behind him then the way he used to play. It's like he's playing as a smaller goalie then he is, his style actually used to remind me of Luongo's used to take up way more of the net, now it doesn't seem like that in his style anymore. Fair enough, I guess the numbers don't always tell the whole story. Marky did get hot a times though and he stole a few games last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 52 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said: While statistics are important to compare things, this stat can be misleading when players are on teams that give up a lot of quality chances. I think the WHC showed that - Nilsson got games behind a strong defensive team and, voila, .930 and above. These two do not have a ton of starts yet in their careers. I think with some tweaks they have ability to vastly improve but also I think as the Canucks address their defensive game, that will be a huge contributor to "hey, the Canuck goalies are better...look at the stats". that's all well and good, but having watched the games, the brutal, soft, poorly-timed, back-breaking goals both guys let in were too many to count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, tas said: that's all well and good, but having watched the games, the brutal, soft, poorly-timed, back-breaking goals both guys let in were too many to count. When good goalies let in soft goals it isn't due to lack of talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 3 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said: When good goalies let in soft goals it isn't due to lack of talent. what about when bad goalies do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 11 minutes ago, tas said: what about when bad goalies do it? It is due to lack of talent. Bad goalies never have good stretches and certainly don't win world championships either. Carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 11 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said: It is due to lack of talent. Bad goalies never have good stretches and certainly don't win world championships either. Carry on. I would have posted a .923 playing behind that team for a half dozen games and I injured my back a couple weeks ago falling asleep on my couch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizmo2337 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 What about Martin Brodeur? Isn't his contract up with the Blues expired now? Unlikely to happen.... but wouldn't hurt to ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckNORRIS4Cup Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 6 hours ago, GarthButcher5 said: Fair enough, I guess the numbers don't always tell the whole story. Marky did get hot a times though and he stole a few games last year. His goals against was worse last year then the year before, but did have a very slightly higher save percentage .002. I don't hate Markstrom I actually kind of used to like him because I saw potential in him, he really used to remind me of Luongo's style. But his style has changed and imo that's on Cloutier, and I don't like it at all, I wish he would go back to his old style and perfect that one, he also didn't let in so many 1 shot goals before, now it's almost automatic and that's not right, something is wrong and I believe it's Cloutier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 16 minutes ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said: His goals against was worse last year then the year before, but did have a very slightly higher save percentage .002. I don't hate Markstrom I actually kind of used to like him because I saw potential in him, he really used to remind me of Luongo's style. But his style has changed and imo that's on Cloutier, and I don't like it at all, I wish he would go back to his old style and perfect that one, he also didn't let in so many 1 shot goals before, now it's almost automatic and that's not right, something is wrong and I believe it's Cloutier. ...based on nothing. something caused the mass extinction of the dinosaurs and I believe it was you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckNORRIS4Cup Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 4 minutes ago, tas said: ...based on nothing. something caused the mass extinction of the dinosaurs and I believe it was you. Based on seeing how much more open net there is now, do you even watch the games? Or only when the team is winning and doing good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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