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Just watched the US Canada game from yesterday.

 

Hughes Bros were very entertaining. Let’s get Jack!!! 

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3 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Don't agree with you at all.   Dahlin seems to have a very defensively responsible approach and I don't see him taking anywhere near the same chances that Quinn takes.   Quinn is the ultimate risk-reward player and Dahlin is basically all reward.   Dahlin is who you structure a team around - Quinn is who you structure "Highlights of the Night" around.

 

I am not sure Hughes will ever be great defensively and thus will always be a bit of an adventure but he will bring fans out of their seats more in a year than Dahlin likely does in his career.   Dahlin will be a far better "D"man and more valuable to his team - Hughes may be more valuable to his owner.

I'm not a big comparison guy but Hughes to me is an Erik Karlsson type where Dahlin is more a Drew Doughty type.  Would you agree?

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1 hour ago, Kanukfanatic said:

Yeah...fair enough. Even then though there would only be 1 player every 20 years. They would be rare. But the media and fans throw the term around alot. A helluva lot more than 1 guy for every 20 years.

I think more than one player can define a generation. Even when Gretzky played there was still Lemieux. And as much as people consider Crosby a generational player, I would consider a player like Ovi one as well. 

 

just my 2centz.

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1 hour ago, theo5789 said:

Well my point is Dahlin has the skills offensively (stick handling, vision, speed, etc) as Hughes and if you added the rest of my post, he also has the complete package (shot, size, defensive play, etc). I agree that Hughes will play with much more risk to his game simply because the best he can offer is that offense, but I think if Dahlin is driven to make that offensive rush, he can do pretty much whatever Hughes can do as well.

Again, I don't agree.  I don't think Dahlin will drive as much offense as he is not wired to do so.   I also don't think he will be as dynamic a skater or playmaker.   That all being said, if I was a coach/GM I would take Dahlin 10 times out of 10 over Hughes.   If I was an owner or a fan who wanted excitment and goals for, I would take Hughes.   

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57 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

Hmmm?

 

Dahlin has some pretty sic dangles himself...

 

I also am not so sure Hughes is pure risk. He may not have his shot? But QH approaches Patrick Kane, defence version, in agility & puck on a string, take it where I want handling of the play. He does seem to read the play, and have the skills to push it. Its risk taking if you are going to get stripped of the puck, or often in no mans land to try & make lower % scoring plays.

 

Minus the shot, again, that also separated him from Boqvist? Who I liked. 

 

Clearly, Hughes wont have Dahlins ability to handle guys in coners, win battles. Defensively or otherwise. He does not seem a bad defender though. A second item that distanced himself from Boqvist. And there is the argument about getting to the puck clean, and getting it out of your zone with possession with these speedsters?

I view it like comparing a forward who is an elite goal scorer who pots 40-50 goals a season but ignores his own end of the ice to a more complete player who gets 70 points total but also leads the PK, have amazing possession stats and is considered one of the best overall players in the game.   

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38 minutes ago, UticaHockey said:

I'm not a big comparison guy but Hughes to me is an Erik Karlsson type where Dahlin is more a Drew Doughty type.  Would you agree?

I really cannot come up with a comparison for Hughes simply as he seems to be a new breed and something the game really hasn't see a lot of.   I view Dahlin a bit like Hedman in some ways but with a bit less physicality and a bit more "dangle" as someone else put it.    Hughes is hard to compare to anyone as he plays a "new" position out there and seems to join the rush as much as he doesn't - he plays like it is the 80's but he skates like it is 2040 and he has discovered something that no one else quite has.    I don't buy all these comparisons people make for him as he is something different - I haven't quite figured out exactly what that will likely mean for him in the NHL but I am pretty sure it will be exciting with goals galore in BOTH ends.

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13 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

I really cannot come up with a comparison for Hughes simply as he seems to be a new breed and something the game really hasn't see a lot of.   I view Dahlin a bit like Hedman in some ways but with a bit less physicality and a bit more "dangle" as someone else put it.    Hughes is hard to compare to anyone as he plays a "new" position out there and seems to join the rush as much as he doesn't - he plays like it is the 80's but he skates like it is 2040 and he has discovered something that no one else quite has.    I don't buy all these comparisons people make for him as he is something different - I haven't quite figured out exactly what that will likely mean for him in the NHL but I am pretty sure it will be exciting with goals galore in BOTH ends.

For some reason the weird comparison that keeps popping in my mind is Patrick Kane if he played defense.  The way they skate and move with the puck reminds me of each other but in different areas of the ice due to position.

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1 minute ago, Rob_Zepp said:

I view it like comparing a forward who is an elite goal scorer who pots 40-50 goals a season but ignores his own end of the ice to a more complete player who gets 70 points total but also leads the PK, have amazing possession stats and is considered one of the best overall players in the game.   

You mean like Patrick Kane? Well, you can win with those sorts...

 

And I usually agree with you. But I am not sure Hughes is delinquent as a D man. Maybe not Spurgeon, who plays the toughest match ups at 5'9''. But like Ellis in Nashville where he just plays! I also believe, with his speed, he will kill penalties. Play 2knd pair defensive matchups versus be completely sheltered. And of course key offensive minutes, yes. 

 

What I really believe is his being on the ice will be part & parcel with a complete overhaul to an up tempo play style. Where guys like Hughes, but the team as a whole will play a very attacking defensive style. A play style designed where a nimble D, Stecher inclusive, can also pick off deflected and poor passes by opposition in our end. And get up ice.

 

Hughes wont be asked, Tortorella style, to clog up the middle, block shots, and push forwards from in front of the net. It wont be an issue!

 

Chicago did that in their play off runs. You can call it ''high risk?' Its a prerogative statement. The higher the speed, and the more possessions per game. Yes it creates turnovers & odd man situations our way as well? But the coaching logic is that with 300 possessions per game at pace & lots of open ice, versus 210 possessions in tightly checked quarters. Demko may see 32 shots instead of 27, but with clear ice to stop the shooter? And we would bank on Boeser & Pettersson being more deadly than most opposing top snipers. I like those odds! Lind, Jake and Dahlen to clean up, get numerous extra high % chances with plenty of odd man rushes. Being more skilled? We would also be less susceptible to such pressure ourselves. The faster, even if we give up more goals against, more skilled team should reliably pull away most nights!  And in longer series...

 

Its not high risk. Its a calculated way to use your personnel. 

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6 hours ago, bad alice french said:

Well said. Bang on.

He owned every hi light. Even ones for opposing players. The guy is just everywhere. Once the puck is on his stick, his line is in control. Whoever is responsible for this pick may have turned things around for us and I'm forcing myself to be extremely guarded here. All of a sudden there is light. EP, Boeser and and add in Palm, Lind Etc.....

Montreal and Arizona are responsible for this pick. 

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2 hours ago, theo5789 said:

Let's say Hughes is a ppg guy. Let's say Dahlin is a 70 point guy. So sure Hughes can generate a bit more offense, but Dahlin in the meantime also provides solid defense playing in all situations and can probably log 30 mins in a game. Will to win? Hughes has it, but so does Dahlin in spades and he will handle the playoffs when the physicality and intensity rises.

 

Hughes may have an incredible career and anything is possible, but it's hard for me to see at this point that he will have the better career compared to Dahlin.

We will have to wait and see...but I do think Quinn is better already at one key defensive skill...the ability to read what an opposing player is going to do with the puck and therefore be ready and able to strip the puck away.

 

That is harder to do against the Crosby's and Kane's of the league ...but if he can do it consistently against the other 90% of the league...that is more valuable than just checking the guy to make him pass it...we end up going the other way with the puck....you can't put a price on that until it happens game after game...

 

Another year in college and I think he beats his brother out for the Calder....2 years after that we should have an idea who is better overall...

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5 minutes ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said:

Montreal and Arizona are responsible for this pick. 

Still can't believe Detroit didn't take Quinn...I guess they didn't ask there coach what he thought...apparently the coach liked him enough in the Worlds to play him over other NHL'r's and remark how surprised he was by the poise.

 

We somehow lucked into a gem for sure....

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21 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

You mean like Patrick Kane? Well, you can win with those sorts...

 

And I usually agree with you. But I am not sure Hughes is delinquent as a D man. Maybe not Spurgeon, who plays the toughest match ups at 5'9''. But like Ellis in Nashville where he just plays! I also believe, with his speed, he will kill penalties. Play 2knd pair defensive matchups versus be completely sheltered. And of course key offensive minutes, yes. 

 

What I really believe is his being on the ice will be part & parcel with a complete overhaul to an up tempo play style. Where guys like Hughes, but the team as a whole will play a very attacking defensive style. A play style designed where a nimble D, Stecher inclusive, can also pick off deflected and poor passes by opposition in our end. And get up ice.

 

Hughes wont be asked, Tortorella style, to clog up the middle, block shots, and push forwards from in front of the net. It wont be an issue!

 

Chicago did that in their play off runs. You can call it ''high risk?' Its a prerogative statement. The higher the speed, and the more possessions per game. Yes it creates turnovers & odd man situations our way as well? But the coaching logic is that with 300 possessions per game at pace & lots of open ice, versus 210 possessions in tightly checked quarters. Demko may see 32 shots instead of 27, but with clear ice to stop the shooter? And we would bank on Boeser & Pettersson being more deadly than most opposing top snipers. I like those odds! Lind, Jake and Dahlen to clean up, get numerous extra high % chances with plenty of odd man rushes. Being more skilled? We would also be less susceptible to such pressure ourselves. The faster, even if we give up more goals against, more skilled team should reliably pull away most nights!  And in longer series...

 

Its not high risk. Its a calculated way to use your personnel. 

I think you are taking my thoughts wrong....I LOVE this pick for Vancouver as the Canucks are a team and a franchise in general that needs this type of player.   I just think that he will frustrate coaches and five minutes later score the winner sort of guy.   He is an elite talent but one that has yet to be defined into the traditional game so perhaps he alters the game a titch....great players have always done that (heck, they put in rules just for Gretzky to avoid him scoring EVERY 4 on 4).   

 

I just think in responding to those trying to compare him to a more traditional, and pretty much a perfect specimen of, Dman in Dahlin that it really isn't a fair comparison.    

 

I think Hughes will have an outstanding NHL career and likely be top 3 in his team's scoring the way guys in the 80s used to be from the back end.   

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6 hours ago, Canuckster86 said:

We cant really compare a tournament with NHL players/Men in it that he played in vs a tournament full of prospects or future draft picks. I would sure hope he looked better in this recent tournament, he was playing against his same age group. He should dominate against them as a high level pick. Dont know how well he did in the D Zone, I am sure he will only be able to do so much due to his size. But if he can be a wizard with his stick awareness that will go a long way. He just wont be the guy to move players out from the front of the net...but that doesnt really happen anymore or it gets called a penalty.

 

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49 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

I think you are taking my thoughts wrong....I LOVE this pick for Vancouver as the Canucks are a team and a franchise in general that needs this type of player.   I just think that he will frustrate coaches and five minutes later score the winner sort of guy.   He is an elite talent but one that has yet to be defined into the traditional game so perhaps he alters the game a titch....great players have always done that (heck, they put in rules just for Gretzky to avoid him scoring EVERY 4 on 4).   

 

I just think in responding to those trying to compare him to a more traditional, and pretty much a perfect specimen of, Dman in Dahlin that it really isn't a fair comparison.    

 

I think Hughes will have an outstanding NHL career and likely be top 3 in his team's scoring the way guys in the 80s used to be from the back end.   

Fair enough. And I agree wholeheartedly with Dahlin. The whole package! I was just less convinced that Hughes would frustrate his coach cry at times.  He seems pretty solid to me, size notwithstanding. There are match ups a coach could craft against him based on that. Think Quenneville suddenly converting Byfuglien to a PF in front of the net. But very calculated & reliable. I could be wrong?  I'll leave the subject.

 

Ryan Merkley makes his coach cringe for being absent defensively, taking risks... 

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1 hour ago, Rob_Zepp said:

I think you are taking my thoughts wrong....I LOVE this pick for Vancouver as the Canucks are a team and a franchise in general that needs this type of player.   I just think that he will frustrate coaches and five minutes later score the winner sort of guy.   He is an elite talent but one that has yet to be defined into the traditional game so perhaps he alters the game a titch....great players have always done that (heck, they put in rules just for Gretzky to avoid him scoring EVERY 4 on 4).   

 

I just think in responding to those trying to compare him to a more traditional, and pretty much a perfect specimen of, Dman in Dahlin that it really isn't a fair comparison.    

 

I think Hughes will have an outstanding NHL career and likely be top 3 in his team's scoring the way guys in the 80s used to be from the back end.   

Along with 

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tumblr_p06qawsi6y1viy6gjo1_500.gif

 

tumblr_ownqcvSQnw1vhnle5o3_500.gif

for years to come! 

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2 hours ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said:

Montreal and Arizona are responsible for this pick. 

Had Montreal taken anyone else, I still think Kotkaniemi would have gone before our pick. Montreal took a huge risk and I like that, it’s the first time they ever aimed high since that pathetic Bergevin stepped in. 

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I thought it was a little fishy when Kotkaneimi's ranking jumped in the last couple of weeks before the draft when it became clear the Montreal was likely to select him 3OA.  I could accept him at 10-12 but not 7.  There is no way that Montreal fans would have accepted a reach like that.  Bergevin has painted himself into a corner with respect to the centre position.

 

Pheonix would have taken the best centre available when they selected at 5 so Kotkaneimi would have been gone before the Canucks picked regardless.

 

However, had the Habs taken Zadina, I belive the Wings would have taken Hughes and the Canucks would have taken Boqvist.  It didn't happen this way so we'll never know.  I'm happy the way the draft turned out.  It couldn't have gone better for the Canucks given the way the lottery went.

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3 hours ago, Rollieo Del Fuego said:

Still can't believe Detroit didn't take Quinn...I guess they didn't ask there coach what he thought...apparently the coach liked him enough in the Worlds to play him over other NHL'r's and remark how surprised he was by the poise.

 

We somehow lucked into a gem for sure....

When a guy that was considered guaranteed top 3 in the draft all year drops to you at 6 you almost have to take him. But as a team that desperately needs d-men we are very fortunate that Benning didn't need to ask himself "Zadina or Hughes". Even though based on the draft video it looks like they wanted Detroit to take Zadina, or at least hoped they wouldn't take Hughes. So maybe Zadina wasn't rated over Hughes in managements eyes. Another question we'll never get a for sure answer to.

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1 hour ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

Had Montreal taken anyone else, I still think Kotkaniemi would have gone before our pick. Montreal took a huge risk and I like that, it’s the first time they ever aimed high since that pathetic Bergevin stepped in. 

I agree 100%. Zona was center hunting and they likely take Kotka at 5 if Montreal didn’t. However in the likelihood of that happening Montreal probably took Zadina then picks 5 and 6 probably go Kotka then Hughes and we’re picking one of the other dmen.

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4 hours ago, Rollieo Del Fuego said:

We will have to wait and see...but I do think Quinn is better already at one key defensive skill...the ability to read what an opposing player is going to do with the puck and therefore be ready and able to strip the puck away.

 

That is harder to do against the Crosby's and Kane's of the league ...but if he can do it consistently against the other 90% of the league...that is more valuable than just checking the guy to make him pass it...we end up going the other way with the puck....you can't put a price on that until it happens game after game...

 

Another year in college and I think he beats his brother out for the Calder....2 years after that we should have an idea who is better overall...

Is Hughes actually better than Dahlin in that defensive aspect or is it something simply impressive that Hughes is capable of and likely will have to depend upon for his defensive game? Dahlin has incredible skill and vision as well and surely he is just as capable of reading the opposition as well.

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