Rob_Zepp

Canucks Prospect Pool - A Reflection and Evaluation Thread

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5 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

The Benning team has now completed their fifth amateur draft.   That seems a fair milestone to compare the prospect pool his team inherited and the one they presented have.   Prior to this arrival, this as the"consensus pool" (2013):

 

Vancouver Canucks Top 10 Prospects

1. Hunter Shinkaruk, Center 
2. Bo Horvat, Center 
3. Frankie Corrado, Defense 
4. Nicklas Jensen, Left Wing 
5. Brendan Gaunce, Center 
6. Jordan Subban, Defense 
7. Henrik Tommernes, Defense 
8. Eddie Lack, Goaltender 
9. Joseph LaBate, Center 
10. Patrick McNally, Defense

Organizational Ranking: 29th

System Overview

The Canucks system is a desert; their top two are strong, and overall, their top four or five make up a mediocre core. Most of their prospects have notable question marks or low upsides.

 

 

Flash forward to June 2018, not sure exactly what the top 10 would look like but here are some candidates and it would be difficult to see anyone not named Horvat on that former list even cracking the top 10?   Roughly ordered - please add your own re-jiggle.      Point is, THIS Is a prospect pool that can support a successful NHL team.

 

Elias Pettersson
Thatcher Demko

Quinn Hughes

Olli Juolevi
Jonathan Dahlen

Big Tall Guy in Russia

Nikolay Goldobin
Kole Lind

Jett Woo
Adam Gaudette
Brendan Leipsic

Tyler Madden
Lukas Jasek
Petrus Palmu
Jalen Chatfield   
William Lockwood  

Dmitri Zhukenov   
Zack MacEwen    
Jack Rathbone

 

That 2013 pool looks like $&!# compared to now. Horvat is the only stand out.

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Posted (edited)

Before Team Tank... and after.

Dont need a hill to see where this leads to. 

DC5F53B4-A30C-4CF6-981B-2BB99A018BA3.jpeg.5bc576a4d542c1d7c3abc6188c2561ec.jpeg

Edited by 189lb enforcers?
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7 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

The Benning team has now completed their fifth amateur draft.   That seems a fair milestone to compare the prospect pool his team inherited and the one they presented have.   Prior to this arrival, this as the"consensus pool" (2013):

 

Vancouver Canucks Top 10 Prospects

1. Hunter Shinkaruk, Center 
2. Bo Horvat, Center 
3. Frankie Corrado, Defense 
4. Nicklas Jensen, Left Wing 
5. Brendan Gaunce, Center 
6. Jordan Subban, Defense 
7. Henrik Tommernes, Defense 
8. Eddie Lack, Goaltender 
9. Joseph LaBate, Center 
10. Patrick McNally, Defense

Organizational Ranking: 29th

System Overview

The Canucks system is a desert; their top two are strong, and overall, their top four or five make up a mediocre core. Most of their prospects have notable question marks or low upsides.

 

 

Flash forward to June 2018, not sure exactly what the top 10 would look like but here are some candidates and it would be difficult to see anyone not named Horvat on that former list even cracking the top 10?   Roughly ordered - please add your own re-jiggle.      Point is, THIS Is a prospect pool that can support a successful NHL team.

 

Elias Pettersson
Thatcher Demko

Quinn Hughes

Olli Juolevi
Jonathan Dahlen

Big Tall Guy in Russia

Nikolay Goldobin
Kole Lind

Jett Woo
Adam Gaudette
Brendan Leipsic

Tyler Madden
Lukas Jasek
Petrus Palmu
Jalen Chatfield   
William Lockwood  

Dmitri Zhukenov   
Zack MacEwen    
Jack Rathbone

 

That 2013 depth...wow. One star, one barely 4th liner and one barely #2 goalie. What a world of difference to now. Even being pessimistic, the current depth looks like: 2-3 stars, 5 good regulars, and the remainder largely capable of making the NHL but totally a dartboard trying to figure out where. One guy not listed; Guilliame Brisebois.

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4 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Picking high in consecutive rounds, in consecutive drafts, will do that results in this natural cycle. 

 

Either than petterson juolevi and Hughes. All of those guys could have been taken drafting in the back end of rounds. If they like them enough just take em however many slots early. Plus benning hitting on quite a few guys after the 4th round is not too common.

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1 minute ago, Bure1010 said:

Either than petterson juolevi and Hughes. All of those guys could have been taken drafting in the back end of rounds. If they like them enough just take em however many slots early. Plus benning hitting on quite a few guys after the 4th round is not too common.

He gets opportunity to make those hits because he is consistently picking first out of the next 25 teams in those rounds. 

Nobody is laughing at Team Tank after picking Woo, etc, never mind Hughes. 

 

The pool is better because of a natural cycle. Plus mining the crowd on draft day is one way to acknowledge this cycle, I suppose. 

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18 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

A high second rounder is around the same as a low first rounder.  Take the first rounders out of the equation and our prospect pool today STILL wipes the floor with the 2013 group.

Wow. (?)

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Prospects need to start making the jump...when they do, the prospect pool goes down...Pettersson, Dahlen, Gaudette, Goldy, Liepsic, Demko, MacEwen, OJ....possibly removed from this list this coming year....now that is something to talk about!!

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38 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

I mean only removing the firsts from our group now. 

 

So:

1. Hunter Shinkaruk, Center 
2. Bo Horvat, Center 
3. Frankie Corrado, Defense 
4. Nicklas Jensen, Left Wing 
5. Brendan Gaunce, Center 
6. Jordan Subban, Defense 
7. Henrik Tommernes, Defense 
8. Eddie Lack, Goaltender 
9. Joseph LaBate, Center 
10. Patrick McNally, Defense

 

Vs:

  1. Thatcher Demko
  2. Jonathan Dahlen
  3. Nikita Tryamkin
  4. Nikolay Goldobin
  5. Kole Lind
  6. Jett Woo
  7. Adam Gaudette
  8. Brendan Leipsic
  9. Jonah Gadjovich
  10. Tyler Madden

 

I like the second group much better.  All of these guys would have been available if we had been drafting at the end of the first round.

 

Goldy was a first rounder

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Just now, King Heffy said:

Acquired via trade though, which didn't involve us finishing near the bottom of the standings.  Sub in DiPietro if you like though.  The point I'm trying to make is that Benning has done a better job of building the prospect pool, even if you take out our best pieces.

I agree completely

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35 minutes ago, bloodycanuckleheads said:

When you look back in 5 or 10 years, you will find out that the majority of these players busted too (Zhukenov has virtually no chance of making the NHL, etc...).

 

It's ridiculous how this board always over-rates our prospects and just assumes they'll all turn out amazing.  Just to point out...  5 years ago, absolutely everyone here had Shinkaruk pencilled in as a 1st line scorer.  Everyone here also thought Subban was going to be a dominant d-man.  Every year, you guys are wrong.  Horribly wrong.


Also, your list includes quite a few players who aren't actually prospects (Leipsic, Goldobin, Tryamkin).

 

And, isn't it surprising how our prospect pool is ranked near the bottom of the league - after we were drafting last in each round?!!  And then, once we started drafting at the top of every round, our prospect pool got magically better?!!  No, that's not a coincidence at all - and it's not evidence that Benning is an amazing drafter.  It's expected.  100% expected.  Your prospect pool better rise dramatically in quality after you were the worst team in the league over the last 3 years.  In fact, it should be better than it is now.  Unfortunately, we made a few horrible mistakes along the way with our best picks (Virtanen, Juolevi). 

fremont-troll.jpg

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45 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

If a player is not on the NHL roster they are, by definition, a prospect.  

Oh, so Kovalchuk was a prospect until this morning?  That's interesting...

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