Canucks Prospect Pool - A Reflection and Evaluation Thread

[189lb enforcers?]

On 2018-06-23 at 1:27 PM, cuporbust said:

Great thing is we didn't tank. Injuries had a big part to play in our draft positions.  Benning still tried to develope a win no matter what attitude at least. 

They accidentally tanked, for years. Which is worse? 

(Unless you include yourself with SlimJim’s feighning surprise at the IR report’s impact on the team’s successes? To be surprised by pattern/predictable injury result of certain, key players, year after year is just bad roster management, regardless)

 

I disagree with the winning environment thing.

Having the kids watch the Sedins mail it in for the past few years, until they decided to give it their all during the final few weeks... I don’t see what Benning has done to the roster to support your “win-no-matter-what” claim. 

 

What I have seen is Pedan, Subban, Holm and Vanek moved. Slow yawn. 

I’ve seen Radim and a few other boat anchor, culture-drivers teach the kids how to sulk, mainly. I don’t see how JB has done anything to support your claim, but what do I know. 

 

 

[wiseupsucker]

^^ holy crap, why are you here?

[Baggins]

1 hour ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

They accidentally tanked, for years. Which is worse? 

 

I disagree with the winning environment thing.

Having the kids watch the Sedins mail it in for the past few years, until they decided to give it their all during the final few weeks... I don’t see what Benning has done to the roster to support your “win-no-matter-what” claim. 

 

What I have seen is Pedan, Subban, Holm and Vanek moved. Slow yawn. 

I’ve seen Radim and a few other boat anchor, culture-drivers teach the kids how to sulk, mainly. I don’t see how JB has done anything to support your claim, but what do I know. 

 

 

Intentionally setting your team up to lose is worse. Getting set up to have a chance and failing is better than having no chance at all. Losing a close game is better than getting blown out. One gives you drive while the other can suck the compete out of you.

 

Seems to me the sulky ones are team tank.

[189lb enforcers?]

7 minutes ago, Baggins said:

Intentionally setting your team up to lose is worse. Getting set up to have a chance and failing is better than having no chance at all. Losing a close game is better than getting blown out. One gives you drive while the other can suck the compete out of you.

 

Seems to me the sulky ones are team tank.

I would call last year’s roster a recipe for suckcess. 

A few quaranteed IR mainstays, a PP hired pop-gun and a scratched Dman to round out UFAs to supplement the dreadful goaltending dream-team, who must have prayed before every game that JB might trade in a few actual Dmen. 

 

You can call it “trying”, that’s your vernacular. 

Mine is accidental Tank. 

When you can predict poor results but “try” anyways, you don’t win any managerial awards if you work for me. 

[189lb enforcers?]

1 hour ago, wiseupsucker said:

^^ holy crap, why are you here?

When you’ve been on this site for a few months shy of 20 years, you can ask me that. 

[wiseupsucker]

Just now, 189lb enforcers? said:

When you’ve been on this site for a few months shy of 20 years, you can ask me that. 

meh

[ForsbergTheGreat]

There's no denying our prospect pool is substantially better, but it's not comparing apples to apples.  We are comparing a contending back to back president trophy winning team, to a roster that has picked top 10, four of the last 5 years, it's not rocket science that why our pool is better.   I actually liked Gillis as GM, it was pretty evident that his driving orders weren't to focus on the prospect pool, it was to win.....at all costs.... in which we came extremely close to doing so.... 

[WWM_Canuck]

3 hours ago, bloodycanuckleheads said:

When you look back in 5 or 10 years, you will find out that the majority of these players busted too (Zhukenov has virtually no chance of making the NHL, etc...).

 

It's ridiculous how this board always over-rates our prospects and just assumes they'll all turn out amazing.  Just to point out...  5 years ago, absolutely everyone here had Shinkaruk pencilled in as a 1st line scorer.  Everyone here also thought Subban was going to be a dominant d-man.  Every year, you guys are wrong.  Horribly wrong.

Also, your list includes quite a few players who aren't actually prospects (Leipsic, Goldobin, Tryamkin).

 

And, isn't it surprising how our prospect pool is ranked near the bottom of the league - after we were drafting last in each round?!!  And then, once we started drafting at the top of every round, our prospect pool got magically better?!!  No, that's not a coincidence at all - and it's not evidence that Benning is an amazing drafter.  It's expected.  100% expected.  Your prospect pool better rise dramatically in quality after you were the worst team in the league over the last 3 years.  In fact, it should be better than it is now.  Unfortunately, we made a few horrible mistakes along the way with our best picks (Virtanen, Juolevi). 

 

This is absolutley correct. The “depth” that everyone raves about can only be properly assessed in 3-5 years. At this point the only thing that can be said with certainty is that JB drafted a very good player in Boesser.  On the flip side, two of the players JB has drafted high in the first round (Virtanen and OJ) are, at best, signifiantly lagging on their projected development.  When viewed objectively it is a pretty average performance, particualy when the players that were drafted with the picks immediatley following Virtanen and OJ are consdiered.

[189lb enforcers?]

Just now, wiseupsucker said:

meh

You’re probably younger than how long I’ve been on here. 

 

It was the summer of 1998 when I first joined. I was mid-20’s and followed the game much closer than I do now. You don’t follow this team for decades and not have a few disagreements with the direction of the management. 

 

I’ve earned my non-cheerleader posts for managerial decisions concerning the Canucks. ANTFA is looking for thought suppression experts, try there. 

 

[wiseupsucker]

2 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

You’re probably younger than how long I’ve been on here. 

 

It was the summer of 1998 when I first joined. I was mid-20’s and followed the game much closer than I do now. You don’t follow this team for decades and not have a few disagreements with the direction of the management. 

 

I’ve earned my non-cheerleader posts for managerial decisions concerning the Canucks. ANTFA is looking for thought suppression experts, try there. 

 

*shoulder shrug* at least tell me what ANTFA means

[189lb enforcers?]

1 minute ago, wiseupsucker said:

*shoulder shrug* at least tell me what ANTFA means

Sir, I think I’ve misjudged you then! 

Welcome to the show. 

[hammertime]

In 6 years GM MG hit on 7 picks to actually crack the NHL. 

 

1st round: CoHo, Schredder, Gaunce, Bo

3rd round: Connauton

5th round: Hutton, Corrado (sorta)

 

I firmly believe JB has drafted at least 10 NHL players in his 4 years. 

Virtanen

Mcann

Demko

Tryamkin

Forsling

Just in JB's first year

Brock 

Gaudette

Olli

Pettersson

Lind

Gadjo

DiPietro

Hughes

Woo

 

That is pretty impressive some might bust and others might surprise (Lockwood, Rathbone, Palmu,)

 

Even if you compare the lists minus our early firsts Olli Pete Hughes Virtanen. and our early 2nd's Lind Demko thats still at least 8 players I would take any day over MG's list. 

 

[DrJockitch]

3 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Uh, ok...didn't realize he was LA property until he signed.   As he has played in the NHL for more than a decade, I would have thought that was self-evident but apparently that isn't the case.   

 

Do you work at being obtuse or is it an innate natural ability?   

While I can't answer for him, in my case both!

[KKnight]

6 hours ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Picking high in consecutive rounds, in consecutive drafts, will do that. It’s a predictable cycle. 

 

Tell that to edmonton & buffalo. They have sucked for years and dont have much to show for it as far as success. 

 

But yes getting multiple years inside of the top 10 can really change your team. Saying that, we havent had much success in finding gems in later rounds. With the exception of Hansen, Edler, Bieksa. Brackett and Benning havent seemed to have a problem having success in later rounds. Except for the Juolevi year. 

[Brovat]

I think something pretty special is being built at the moment. A lot of these guys are going to grow up together and have each other’s back no matter what. 

 

I think this group growing on and off the ice together with guys like Bo, Brock, and Jake as the veterans is going to be a pretty wild team to watch. 

 

I also think this where the pack mentality will come to this group naturally. 

 

Its also kind of interesting how these guys are being drafted with 1 degree of separation from each other or the city of Vancouver. Always seems to be some small connection somewhere. 

[Gurn]

1 hour ago, WWM_Canuck said:

On the flip side, two of the players JB has drafted high in the first round (Virtanen and OJ) are, at best, signifiantly lagging on their projected development

Virtanen might be behind, Ollie is doing fine.

[Standing_Tall#37]

9 minutes ago, gurn said:

Virtanen might be behind, Ollie is doing fine.

I agree with what Burke said last night, at the end of 3 years after being drafted you know what you have in a 1st rounder, depending on the extent of OJs injury and recovery we’ll know either this year or by next year what he can do.

[Standing_Tall#37]

1 hour ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

You’re probably younger than how long I’ve been on here. 

 

It was the summer of 1998 when I first joined. I was mid-20’s and followed the game much closer than I do now. You don’t follow this team for decades and not have a few disagreements with the direction of the management. 

 

I’ve earned my non-cheerleader posts for managerial decisions concerning the Canucks. ANTFA is looking for thought suppression experts, try there. 

 

Amazing how that works eh? You only handle so much disappointment before you start lowering your expectations and start getting critical. For me it was about the 20 year mark of being a fan before I took of my homer glasses and really started to be critical... been that way for almost a decade. After I realized we had like a 10% success rate with draft picks (one of the 3 lowest in the nhl) i started being hard on everyone here that thinks every prospect is going to make it and be elite. 

 

 I still like the team and I think JB is probably the most successful GM in team history % wise of drafting and developing his prospects. I feel we’re headed in the right direction finally and maybe just maybe have some exciting times ahead and can maybe make my 30 years of being a fan, rewarded. Along with the other fans who have felt disappointed for 30-50ish years.

[Pete M]

2 hours ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

You’re probably younger than how long I’ve been on here. 

 

It was the summer of 1998 when I first joined. I was mid-20’s and followed the game much closer than I do now. You don’t follow this team for decades and not have a few disagreements with the direction of the management. 

 

I’ve earned my non-cheerleader posts for managerial decisions concerning the Canucks. ANTFA is looking for thought suppression experts, try there. 

 

lol....try living through the Harry Neale era...look up debacle, and fail, you will see Harry with the bright yellow "V" jersey. 

[Sweathog]

1 hour ago, WWM_Canuck said:

 

This is absolutley correct. The “depth” that everyone raves about can only be properly assessed in 3-5 years. At this point the only thing that can be said with certainty is that JB drafted a very good player in Boesser.  On the flip side, two of the players JB has drafted high in the first round (Virtanen and OJ) are, at best, signifiantly lagging on their projected development.  When viewed objectively it is a pretty average performance, particualy when the players that were drafted with the picks immediatley following Virtanen and OJ are consdiered.

I have to respectfully disagree. Jake and OJ were always going to take a few years to develop into effective NHL players, especially with the effort put on Jake to develop into a solid 200ft player, instead of just having him rely on his speed and physical play.

 

I'm not convinced that a guy like Ehlers or Nylander would've had the same kind of success on this team than they have had on their respective teams. The Jet have a much bigger and tougher team than we did (and still do) so I don't think that Ehlers would've had the same type of room to make plays here, that he has enjoyed over in Winnipeg. Also Nylander has been playing in a more faster paced conference, along with playing with guys like Matthews.