2019 NHL Entry Draft in Vancouver, BC

[stawns]

1 hour ago, Seannnp said:

Took a look at some other forums and a lot of teams are hoping for Zegras/Caufield in the top 6. More so than Dach or Cozens. Some even had Zegras going as high as 4th before Turcotte.

 

I think outside the top 2, this draft is going to be much too difficult to predict. On Friday next week, I think there will be a lot of surprises and am expecting the Canucks to make a major move in front of the home crowd.

 

Here's hoping for Turcotte/Dach/Cozens but would be equally happy ending the day with Boldy, Krebs, Zegras, Newhook or Podkolzin. I think no matter how it plays out, Vancouver is coming out with a WIN!!

The Canucks do not have a big enough chip to play to make a big splash, imo.

[Mount-Canuck-More]

I sort of wished Canucks would have lost every game in feb and March! Just to get Jack! 

[IBatch]

3 hours ago, aGENT said:

They've crept higher because skating, IQ, puck skills etc are frankly more important in winning hockey games than size without those things. That does not mean size isn't important. Nor does it mean that teams are only focusing on small, fast skilled guys which is what the narrative seems to be. No GM on any team is going to turn down a 6'-3" 195lb 18 year old that can play like Quinn Hughes. But those guys pretty much don't exist. And if they do, they're going a HELL of a lot closer to 1st OA than 7th.

 

All the current NHL is doing is moving away from slow, low skill/IQ big guys. Not big guys in general. That's the false narrative. Big guys who can skate and play are just as (if not more) welcome as ever.

Again your missing the point.   Bouchard was better at almost everything but skating last year and slipped to ten.  Because now skating is set at a new premium over passing, size (and physical attributes that go with it), hockey IQ, stickhandling, shooting, character etc.  Of course if all things were equal they’d take the bigger guy, and of course teams won’t pass up on phenoms no matter their size either.    Again Burke pointed out the first three things GMs were looking at was skating skating skating (basically they value that at a premium higher than the rest). that pushes all the other important skills down the list.  I’m not a clairvoyant and don’t know if the past two years is enough to make GMs think twice about their draft choices, but I will say that for as long as I’ve watched hockey teams have continually adjusted their teams based on whose winning now.  Always.  We got the trap thanks to NJ and expansion at the time...mimicking is a big part of how the game evolves.  PHI bear everyone up and won back to back cups and started an arms race which evolved into enforcers which lasted all the way until just a few years ago.

 

 Heck we did it right away after losing to Boston (Kassian) , and even ended up hiring Benning...just like we did with Messier and Keenan in 94.  Calgary did it through the entire 80’s trying to keep up to EDM.    It might not be enough YET for things to revert,  but I do think there will be a course correction and that teams will definitely looking to balance things out....because that’s what St. Louis has, an incredibly well balanced lineup that also happens to have a big mobile (not fast) defense.   And some big bodies upfront too. 

 

I’m curious as to what GMs do with their first picks this year, and if guys that are equal in everything but skating and size which ones will go first.   Will teams pass on skating and pick the larger player even though he skates 15 second laps instead of 14?  Or is  skating still at the same premium?   Guess we will find out soon.   

[higgyfan]

1 hour ago, Fanuck said:

I pointed to something similar in another thread that people didn't like hearing,  and had a LOT of bs replies to. That was the fact that all these 'elite' skating smaller stature players like Guderau,  Johnson,  Kucherov,  Point,  Arvidson,  ect.... all virtually disappeared in these playoffs.  They were nowhere to be found when the physicality rose to stratospheric levels and time/space to skate/dangle was not there. 

 

Sure,  people came back with Rat-boy being in the finals but I don't think it's debatable that the majority of smaller guys who dominated the reg season didn't show up in the post season strangely enough.   And I don't mean their production dropped off due to the nature of lower scoring playoff hockey - I mean these small guys were shadows of their regular season performances. I mean was it just a coincidence or a 'one-off' post season? 

 

That said I do wonder about a kid like QH - anyone thinking he's more elite than guys like Gudreau,  Kucherov,  Point ect...and that he somehow has something these other superstars lack which will make him immune to the physical intensity of playoff hockey is dreaming imo.    

 

No, I'm not saying he can't be successful,  just asking how he's different than these other stars who made zero impact in the playoffs?  Take the Homer glasses off people and just think about it for a minute. 

I only watched some of the Bruin/Blues games, but I certainly didn't think Grelcyk, Marchand, Krug or Schwartz disappeared in any of the games.

[IBatch]

3 hours ago, Phat Fingers said:

Edmonton might value Boldy or Dach higher, even Podz.  If anything, Holland could trade up with JP and the 8th to move up to grab Bryam.  I would if I was him.  This is going to be a interesting draft and anything is possible past the 2nd pick.  

 

 

Broberg is a guy I hope is Available, in fact I hope JB has his choice at the second best d man again.  Hughes was awesome.  

Well a few years ago he had the chance at the first best defenseman and we all know how that worked out.   This draft isn’t particularly d heavy...last year Byram would be in the discussion for the second or third best defenseman...and Broberg and Seider sit right around where Woo was ranked by the ISS and THN...Soderstrom a little higher.  I hope if we do take one of them we consider that the L side already has Hughes and OJ too, plus maybe Edler for another four years ..don’t know why Benning has such a hard on for that side.  BPA ... we also need another top line player.   Seider makes more sense for us...but Broberg looks nice given he could be a great replacement for Edler. 

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Fanuck said:

I pointed to something similar in another thread that people didn't like hearing,  and had a LOT of bs replies to. That was the fact that all these 'elite' skating smaller stature players like Guderau,  Johnson,  Kucherov,  Point,  Arvidson,  ect.... all virtually disappeared in these playoffs.  They were nowhere to be found when the physicality rose to stratospheric levels and time/space to skate/dangle was not there. 

 

Sure,  people came back with Rat-boy being in the finals but I don't think it's debatable that the majority of smaller guys who dominated the reg season didn't show up in the post season strangely enough.   And I don't mean their production dropped off due to the nature of lower scoring playoff hockey - I mean these small guys were shadows of their regular season performances. I mean was it just a coincidence or a 'one-off' post season? 

 

That said I do wonder about a kid like QH - anyone thinking he's more elite than guys like Gudreau,  Kucherov,  Point ect...and that he somehow has something these other superstars lack which will make him immune to the physical intensity of playoff hockey is dreaming imo.    

 

No, I'm not saying he can't be successful,  just asking how he's different than these other stars who made zero impact in the playoffs?  Take the Homer glasses off people and just think about it for a minute. 

It was a strange playoffs given top teams were routed by lower seeds right off the hop.  I agree we won’t know how our players will react or how well they will do until we make the playoffs and that so far at least it’s the bigger and heavier teams winning cups since PIT won back to back, possession was out the window and speed speed speed was the new flavour of the times...

[Noble 6]

11 hours ago, higgyfan said:

The following link provides some context into the numbers Pod put up this year, which seem lacking due to his playing in 3 different leagues (2 of which were adult), so the sample size makes it difficult to get a proper read on his abilities.  Whenever he played in international tournaments against players in his age group, he excelled.  

 

This link will explain the circumstances around the lower numbers and to why pro scouts believe Pod is projecting as such a high pick.

https://dobberprospects.com/prospect-deep-dive-vasili-podkolzin/

 

There are some awesome game highlights on the web.  The first thing I notice about him is his great stick handling at blazing speed.  He blows by the opposition and has a tremendous shot. 

 

There's a reason this kid has sat in most scouts top 3 for the past two years.  I think this guy would elevate Bo's line into a #1 (point wise) and will be doing so in a couple of years.

 

How can Dorofeyev outproducing Podkolzin in every league be explained?

[Noble 6]

6 hours ago, IBatch said:

What does “false narrative “ mean?  I’m not a GM but only the past few years have the smaller players crept higher up the draft everything being equal except skating (which is the easier skill to improve. At least that’s what the experts say).  

 

Burke said it clearly last draft that when he was a GM skating was 3 or 4th down the ladder in what teams were looking for and last draft the first three were “skating, skating, skating” ahead of things like hockey IQ, shooting ability and size..well everything else really.  

 

Maybe im old school and appreciate other things and understand that a team built of small defenseman and forwards that can skate well isn’t going to win anything.  Raymond, Hedican etc etc.  

 

Im not saying skating isn’t important because it is, and it’s fun to watch too, but so is hitting, shooting bombs from the point and big guys that can do most things but afterburners (St Louis was loaded with them). 

 

Why don’t we wait and see how things unfold, I’m thinking both Seider and Broberg will now go way ahead of their ISS ranking of 21 and 22.   Not that Broberg can’t skate because he can, one scouting report I read was he doesn’t so much skate as fly down the ice...which is his biggest skill...his size now could become what moves him up IMO...as his other skills are ok but not great.

 

TB built around sub-six forwards (OK Stamkos not inclusive but he’s not big either) and got rolled over by CLB.  (man I wish we could have picked PLD instead).   After an almost record winning regular season.   Point, Gourde and Kucherov are all 5’7 - 5’11.   

 

As far as Hughes goes I’m excited he’s on our team...we’ve never had anything quite like him.  But a 5’9” (listed at 5’10”) defenseman under 180 isn’t someone who can pin guys to the boards, throw a decent hit or clear the net.  Or shoot bombs from the point.  Don’t those skills matter too anymore?   Rather have Parayoko.   Maybe even Sergechev.   Or Bouchard.   But what do I know.   Maybe he’s a superstar.   This is the new NHL where toughness and size have taken a back seat for “that’s a small body folks, a small body”.  Yet another big team wins the cup.  Which is the goal isn’t it?

 

THN ranks Hughes as the second best prospect ... and I’m truly looking forward to watching him.   But I’m not convinced that speed is best and makes other skills inadequate....including size.   If that’s a “false narrative” then too bad, that’s how I feel after watching/following hockey after decades. 

 

That Tampa Bay core you're talking about went to the Conference finals last year and pushed the big, strong Capitals to 7 games. They went to the Conference finals again against Pittsburgh in 2016 and made the final in 2015. They've been one of the most successful teams aside from winning the Cup this decade. 

 

There are many different ways to build a championship team, but you have to commit to you're vision and be patient. Two years ago everyone thought the Washington and St. Louis model (big, heavy teams) was done for and speed and skill was the only way you could survive after Pittsburgh's back to back championships. Two years before that, strength and toughness were deemed mandatory for success in the playoffs after the Kings won 2 Cups in 3 years. You just have to pick a direction and stick with it. 

[Noble 6]

 

[higgyfan]

36 minutes ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

 

How can Dorofeyev outproducing Podkolzin in every league be explained?

In the article that I linked, the writer explains why the stats are not representative of Pod's season.

 

Also, Pod will be turning 18 in late June, whereas Doro has been 18 since last October.  Pretty significant gap at such a young age.

 

Also, you don't really think that Doro is a better pick than Pod, do you?  I mean, most of the pro scouts have him listed in the late teens, whereas Pod is in the top 5.  You know something they don't know?

[R3aL]

18 minutes ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

 

Interesting player, not sure the city could handle that last name tho

[Noble 6]

50 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

In the article that I linked, the writer explains why the stats are not representative of Pod's season.

 

Also, Pod will be turning 18 in late June, whereas Doro has been 18 since last October.  Pretty significant gap at such a young age.

 

Also, you don't really think that Doro is a better pick than Pod, do you?  I mean, most of the pro scouts have him listed in the late teens, whereas Pod is in the top 5.  You know something they don't know?

 

I realized that question came across more hostile than I intended. My bad.

 

I'm aware of the age gap between Dorofeyev and Podkolzin, but the gap in production is much more significant. If Podkolzin's lack of production can be explained, then Dorofeyev's production should be deemed pretty extraordinary.

 

I'm honestly not sure I could say I would take Podkolzin before Dorofeyev. I haven't seen a significant amount of either player, but signs seem to point to Dorofeyev having the higher ceiling, at least in my eyes.

[Pepe Silvia]

9 minutes ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

 

I realized that question came across more hostile than I intended. My bad.

 

I'm aware of the age gap between Dorofeyev and Podkolzin, but the gap in production is much more significant. If Podkolzin's lack of production can be explained, then Dorofeyev's production should be deemed pretty extraordinary.

 

I'm honestly not sure I could say I would take Podkolzin before Dorofeyev. I haven't seen a significant amount of either player, but signs seem to point to Dorofeyev having the higher ceiling, at least in my eyes.

Would you have taken Jake Wise over Tyler Madden? Looking at stats back then, most would.

I haven't seen much of either Podkolzin or Dorofeyev, much like yourself. This is when I'll trust those who have and not look at numbers.

[Noble 6]

1 minute ago, Pepe Silvia said:

Would you have taken Jake Wise over Tyler Madden? Looking at stats back then, most would.

I haven't seen much of either Podkolzin or Dorofeyev, much like yourself. This is when I'll trust those who have and not look at numbers.

 

I didn't really have an opinion on our 3rd rounder last year.

 

I have seen a little bit of Podkolzin live at the WJC and I came away impressed. His fundamentals are very solid and you could tell he was playing the system his coach put in place very well. That said, he didn't show me much offensively. He doesn't seem to have the same vision that Dorofeyev does.

 

I've said before that Dorofeyev reminds me so much of Pettersson on the ice. Both are slight guys with great puck control, accurate shots and fearless creativity. I don't see his deffencies (size) negatively affecting him as severely as Podkolzin's (vision) in terms of absolute ceiling. 

[Brobidus]

2 hours ago, higgyfan said:

In the article that I linked, the writer explains why the stats are not representative of Pod's season.

 

Also, Pod will be turning 18 in late June, whereas Doro has been 18 since last October.  Pretty significant gap at such a young age.

 

Also, you don't really think that Doro is a better pick than Pod, do you?  I mean, most of the pro scouts have him listed in the late teens, whereas Pod is in the top 5.  You know something they don't know?

Firstly, any junior player getting time in the KHL should have more attention than they're getting. But let me give a go at summarising some of these scouting reports.

The MHL is the junior league, and the better players in the league typically score a lot. It would be fair to compare it to the Swedish junior league. 
The VHL is between the Allsvenskan and Liiga in terms of difficulty, but it is notoriously hard to score goals here. 
The KHL are obviously the bigs. But KHL teams tend to have 4 blocks, with 4 offensive lines and 4 defensive lines, ice time tends to also be pretty evenly distributed. 

So Pod came in the VHL early in the year, playing for the best team in the league. Since he's playing against men, it took time to adjust. He got significantly better. In terms of ice time and ppg, he did admirably. So he actually had a decent stat line. Eventually he had his international tournaments and he found himself in the KHL playing a total of 10 minutes in 3 games. The fact that he was given ice time at all for SKA is huge though. They are loaded. His time in the junior league doesn't do him justice, and it's probably the reason why people are so skeptical of him. There could be a dozen different explanations, but he did underachieve in the junior league.

Podkolzin has an awkward skating stride, and he has shown to be a little arrogant. So, he would try to do everything by himself. Which to be fair, he almost had to. He does not use his teammates very well. But everything else is top notch. 

Dorofeyev played most of his time in the junior league. He did decently well. He is also almost a year older than Pod. I feel like teams in the eastern conference of the KHL tend to also give more chances to their junior players. It's usually because they rely on their development programs to get players. Teams like SKA and CSKA just buy anyone they like. So although they have great junior programs, they only take the best of the best. This was a good reason why Dorofeyev got a bigger stint in the KHL. He averaged 8 minutes a game, which is already decent. And he put up a couple of assists.

He's clearly a little smallish in size terms. Tall but lanky. Has great offensive instincts. Is an average skater but it sometimes feels like he slower than he really is. He's a bit raw and will need time to develop. But could prove a lot of people wrong - could turn out to a pick teams regret passing on.

 

But, to reiterate, the reason Dorofeyev got into the KHL for a couple of games is because he is possibly the only other notable prospect in Magnitogorsk's development system, which is an achievement in itself. For Podz, it's different. He has shown that his is the top prospect for his age group, and SKA almost never promotes any of their junior players. That's a much bigger feat to me. And that was also reflected in the world juniors. The coach really has a huge bias against taking younger Russians. But he took Podz. They're both really interesting players, and I guess the Russian factor would apply to the both of them. But there shouldn't be an issue with them actually coming over, more just how much time it'll take for them to do so. Podz has a 2 year contract with SKA. They're definitely going to throw money at him afterwards. 

Does anyone get Nichushkin vibes from Podz?

[filthycanuck]

16 hours ago, R3aL said:

Thanks for sharing your logic. 

 

A little rude the first line about the rose coloured glasses.

 

Gaudette has accomplished a lot to this point to look at his potential optimistically. To cap that because of his draft position is really silly.

 

you want to trade him because he was a 5th rounder and you think his potential is a 15/20 goal 3C. And that is worth the risk of trading for a 17/18 year old draft pick —> defensive prospect. 

 

See after players are drsfted their  positional draft pedigree means less and less. Gaudette is at the stage now where it means nothing. He is found money. If he is a 20 goal scorer who impacts games in a positive way on a nightly basis and has upside of more with the ability to slot into the top 6 when we have injuries, or a staple on the second PP unit  this is a valuable player to have.

 

now if there is a trade for a young dman further ahead in his development than an unproven draft pick I would consider trading Gaudette. Like you said especially with madden looking good and still having sutter and beagle in the roster.

 

but no I would not trade Gaudette at this draft for late round pick And spin the wheel on a prospect maybe providing more value 2-5 years from now than Gaudette will for sure immediately. I am not assuming Gaudette is going to progress leaps and bounds, he has steadily developed his entire career progressing at a linear pace year after year. Right now it is safe to assume he will continue improving and we have not seen his best yet for sure. 

 

He hasnt done anything to make me think otherwise. And he showed some flashes in the NHL, forget what game it was but he tie dragged a dman and roofed it. Like he was in college. The kid is adjusting to the timing of the league (the speed), and he needs to be stronger to confidently play his style. 

 

Since your a gambling man it sounds like. Pre draft pick a prospective trade partner that has a late pick. Pick a prospective d prospect available and let’s see how there careers go? Maybe you’ll be right but in my opinion it’s a pretty big gamble with more exposure to downside than to upside.

I'll gamble with upside, over a guy that just makes it anyday. Ive seen enough Canuck draft picks that just keep the wheel spinning so to speak and not have that superstar potential. The game you were reffering to I think was one of the California teams (LA I believe), yes thats quite a goal, but theres been many players that showed up in the league getting their feet wet making highlight reel goals only to disappear. This debate can go on and on, of what ifs. If your basis for not trading a proven commodity over an unknown, would you trade Gaudette if you offered, lets say, Noah Dobson? Noah Dobson hasn't done anything regardless of where his draft status is over Gaudette, would you say no to Dobson?

[filthycanuck]

2 hours ago, Pepe Silvia said:

Would you have taken Jake Wise over Tyler Madden? Looking at stats back then, most would.

I haven't seen much of either Podkolzin or Dorofeyev, much like yourself. This is when I'll trust those who have and not look at numbers.

I would've, but not after how Judd Brackett explained it. Previous management always wanted 6'5 , 230 lbs  players that were NHL ready, but not thinking outside the box if the smaller guy can do the same thing of what the 230lb guy can do, can you imagine the upside once he put weight on? Its quite a change of philosophy and Im really digging where the future of the team is heading.

 

I could be wrong , but I have a feeling Podkolzin never shows up in this side of the planet, and if he does, its probably like in 4-5 years

[filthycanuck]

2 hours ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

 

I didn't really have an opinion on our 3rd rounder last year.

 

I have seen a little bit of Podkolzin live at the WJC and I came away impressed. His fundamentals are very solid and you could tell he was playing the system his coach put in place very well. That said, he didn't show me much offensively. He doesn't seem to have the same vision that Dorofeyev does.

 

I've said before that Dorofeyev reminds me so much of Pettersson on the ice. Both are slight guys with great puck control, accurate shots and fearless creativity. I don't see his deffencies (size) negatively affecting him as severely as Podkolzin's (vision) in terms of absolute ceiling. 

Dorofeyev or Lassi Thompson are the 2 guys I hope fall in our lap in the 2nd round. From the couple of games I've seen, Thompson has a bit of Nick Leddy in his game

[appleboy]

If skating is the first thing they look at then Broberg it is. 

Move over Jake as we will be drafting a new whipping boy.  LOL

I think it is a balanced approach between all their skills. Some players have that ability to slow the game down . To always be in the right spot. To see things before they unfold and make the right pass or right play to open up ice for their mates. 

Is skating important in today's nhl. Yes.

That may not mean the fastest player. It may be overall mobility as some players are quick but lack agility and lateral mobility. 

I would put more emphasis on their mobility then straight line speed. 

Caufield for example. Their ability to change pace and move laterally.  Flat out speed can be improved. 

Just my thought.

[IBatch]

8 hours ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

 

That Tampa Bay core you're talking about went to the Conference finals last year and pushed the big, strong Capitals to 7 games. They went to the Conference finals again against Pittsburgh in 2016 and made the final in 2015. They've been one of the most successful teams aside from winning the Cup this decade. 

 

There are many different ways to build a championship team, but you have to commit to you're vision and be patient. Two years ago everyone thought the Washington and St. Louis model (big, heavy teams) was done for and speed and skill was the only way you could survive after Pittsburgh's back to back championships. Two years before that, strength and toughness were deemed mandatory for success in the playoffs after the Kings won 2 Cups in 3 years. You just have to pick a direction and stick with it. 

Point  Gourde and Kucherov were last year...but only Kucherov were on those other teams.  Add Cirilli to the list too, they have the smallest group of forwards in the league.  Hey just like practically everyone else I thought they were going to win this year too, maybe they will next year as I think they have an incredible team and there really is no reason they shouldn’t get there with their cap advantage and envious treasure trove of players that can score goals and do other things.   They are also by far the best drafting team in the NHL over the past seven or eight years too.  Maybe they went with some of  these guys because they slipped partially because they weren’t bigger.  They are part of the reason they are getting their day in the sun (again).  Skating is important.  Possession is important.  Size is important...Youth even nowadays if nothing other then cap relief, declaring one thing as the be all end all hasn’t worked well for any team yet.   Next year if TB wins maybe teams will call foul given their no state tax and want to be topped up basically a Stamkos (because that’s what it amounts too) ha ha.   And that can be the next big thing.