2019 NHL Entry Draft in Vancouver, BC

[Phat Fingers]

8 hours ago, aGENT said:

He wasn't 'better at almost everything' and projects as a second pair D IMO.

 

THAT'S why he 'dropped'. It would seem other teams agreed with me. I was frankly more shocked to see Dobson and Smith drop.

Bouchard will be a good hard shooting RHD.  Something we still want.  

 

Hughes has far higher overall skill, skating and playmaking, both on defence and offence.  

 

But Bouchard has a great outlet pass and a great shot.  

 

Guys like Souray and Auccoin made great careers with less talent than Bouchard has displayed. 

[aGENT]

28 minutes ago, IBatch said:

edit: BTW ISS is or IS the actual scouting service.  The rest is noise and media personalities.   With the exception of the THN who also actually uses real scouts to determine the rankings.  And yes I hold them above the talking heads for that reason.

Hockey Prospects is a legit scouting service, with actual scouts, whom NHL teams actually pay for their services FWIW.

[aGENT]

24 minutes ago, Phat Fingers said:

Bouchard will be a good hard shooting RHD.  Something we still want.  

 

Hughes has far higher overall skill, skating and playmaking, both on defence and offence.  

 

But Bouchard has a great outlet pass and a great shot.  

 

Guys like Souray and Auccoin made great careers with less talent than Bouchard has displayed. 

Again, I'm pretty sure he'll have a solid (2nd pair) NHL career and he has a high floor and was a safe pick. Nothing wrong with any of that.

 

He just wasn't remotely the best D available there IMO.

 

Dahlin > Hughes > Dobson > Boqvist > Smith > Miller > Bouchard

Edited June 14, 2019 by aGENT

[Camel Toe Drag]

13 minutes ago, Phat Fingers said:

Bouchard will be a good hard shooting RHD.  Something we still want.  

 

Hughes has far higher overall skill, skating and playmaking, both on defence and offence.  

 

But Bouchard has a great outlet pass and a great shot.  

 

Guys like Souray and Auccoin made great careers with less talent than Bouchard has displayed. 

The nhl has changed quite a bit since then...

[IBatch]

21 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Hockey Prospects is a legit scouting service, with actual scouts, whom NHL teams actually pay for their services FWIW.

Ok Matrix will sleep better knowing that.  

[IBatch]

40 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Again, I'm pretty sure he'll have a solid (2nd pair) NHL career and he has a high floor and was a safe pick. Nothing wrong with any of that.

 

He just wasn't remotely the best D available there IMO.

 

Dahlin > Hughes > Dobson > Boqvist > Smith > Miller > Bouchard

Curious where you rank OJ in there as a comparison...Bouchard was matching him in his draft plus one year and then proceeded to do and accomplish way more then he ever did aside from one tournament....only Dahlin and Hughes are ranked higher then him in future watch, heck Miller is right where OJ is in the mid-sixties - what makes you such an authority on the subject?  Are you a pro scout?  Your list is hilariously out of sync with what the actual experts are predicting.

[groovy]

On 6/13/2019 at 8:36 PM, Seannnp said:

I think the simplest trade and one that Holland would go for is the following simply because he takes on no additional salary and does not give up a very important top 10 pick. Holland keeps his 1st. We get a 2nd and Poolparty and a chance at a player like Turcotte, Dach, Cozens that may drop and who I feel are in the 2nd tier of players along with Byram with the 8thOA. If none of those players are available, we have the option of trading down 3 to 4 spots and still remain in the top 12. If at 12 we still have a few players that we like, why not trade down to 14th or 15th and pick up yet another additional asset. Not sure if this has happened at the draft before but could help us pick up multiple picks whilst still picking a player we like and need. We could ask Lucic to waive his NMC at the expansion draft as its quite doubtful Seattle picks him up. A conversation would need to be had with Seattle to get Lucic to agree.

 

8th OA, 38th OA, Pujuljarvi, Lucic

 

for 10th OA

We could then trade down to 11 or 12 for an additional 2nd rounder as well.

 

8thOA to Phi

 

for 11thOA and 41OA.

Trade down further from here for an additional 2nd If JB still feels like he can go down further and get the player he wants

 

At this points, see who is left. If there are multiple options offer up the 11thOA for the 14thOA or 15thOA and pick up another 2nd. I would not want to pick any lower than 15th. With the surprises we have had in the last two years, I would expect 1 or 2 to be selected off the board which would put the 5-12 players in the 7-14 range and still give us a shot a very good player and additional 2nds. I think to move up 3-4 spots in the 1st round, is minimum a 2nd rounder.

 

 

We would then have 11, 38, 40, 41

 

Nehwook/Krebs/Seider at 11

Leason, Foote, Thompson, Korczak, Afanasyev, Tracey. We could end up walking away with 3 players in the 2nd.

 

If we could walk away with Krebs, Leason, Thompson and Korczak, it will have been an extremely good day for us at the draft.

Wow. And the chances of it playing out like this are...?

 

[aGENT]

2 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Curious where you rank OJ in there as a comparison...Bouchard was matching him in his draft plus one year and then proceeded to do and accomplish way more then he ever did aside from one tournament....only Dahlin and Hughes are ranked higher then him in future watch, heck Miller is right where OJ is in the mid-sixties - what makes you such an authority on the subject?  Are you a pro scout?  Your list is hilariously out of sync with what the actual experts are predicting.

They play entirely different games. And are we talking theoretical healthy, progressing Juolevi or...? Juolevi will likely be a better all around D (assuming he gets back on track), Bouchard will likely put up more offense. 

 

Nope, not a pro scout. Are you?

 

Future watch is one list. Button's top 50 list doesn't even have Bouchard on it (it does have Dobson and Smith FWIW). My list is just fine thanks. That's the order I had them ranked prior to last draft...you could probably fiddle up and down with some of the guys in the middle with a year's worth of hindsight.

[MeanSeanBean]

30 minutes ago, groovy said:

Wow. And the chances of it playing out like this are...?

 

Calm down fun police it's a fan forum

[Canuck Surfer]

On 6/13/2019 at 4:45 AM, Alflives said:

If the draft falls as you foresee, could JB choose the young German D man - Seider - instead of one of the forwards you listed?

Seider has NHL speed.  Not game breaking speed. Very mature player for his age. A safe pick. 

 

But I doubt the best pick available. Seider, I have seen one system rank him 10th overall. Quite a few 15 to 20. But also quite a few 20 to 34.  

 

Podkolzin on the other hand? Has potential to be a top 3 forward, maybe eben top 3 or 4 players in this draft.  Zegras has sneaky & evasive speed, all out speed and puck control. Top 20% in the NHL overall speed. He might not be an all star? But a safe bet to be a highly effective player. And a weapon.  Seider, one notch down, highly likely to be an effective player.  Not likely to be an elite one.

On 6/13/2019 at 5:04 AM, Herberts Vasiljevs said:

Definitely not. Especially with Zegras still on the board.

...

On 6/13/2019 at 8:37 AM, Mad Jon said:

The draft is in Vancouver. Can you imagine the crowd reaction if we take Podkolzin.....Never mind talk radio or the chat lines? The pressure is too intense at the moment. I think they will make a more amicable selection.

They should stand up and cheer!

On 6/14/2019 at 1:58 AM, vannuck59 said:

After watching the playoffs I would say the best big defenseman available to many small D and you wont win the same as last year.  

Hmmm, so Broberg?  Massive upside, wide shoulders, but still slim at 200 lbs.  He's big & a great athlete.  Many glimpses of great skills.

 

The forwards at 10 will be safer picks.  But Broberg could hit it out of the park!

[Mad Jon]

26 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

Seider has NHL speed.  Not game breaking speed. Very mature player for his age. A safe pick. 

 

But I doubt the best pick available. Seider, I have seen one system rank him 10th overall. Quite a few 15 to 20. But also quite a few 20 to 34.  

 

Podkolzin on the other hand? Has potential to be a top 3 forward, maybe eben top 3 or 4 players in this draft.  Zegras has sneaky & evasive speed, all out speed and puck control. Top 20% in the NHL overall speed. He might not be an all star? But a safe bet to be a highly effective player. And a weapon.  Seider, one notch down, highly likely to be an effective player.  Not likely to be an elite one.

...

They should stand up and cheer!

Hmmm, so Broberg?  Massive upside, wide shoulders, but still slim at 200 lbs.  He's big & a great athlete.  Many glimpses of great skills.

 

The forwards at 10 will be safer picks.  But Broberg could hit it out of the park!

If I’m going for the home run pick ( which I would probably be too gutless to make ) I’m picking the Mad Mouse Caufield, That little bugger is bound to score 50 goals. Would you bet against him ?.............How much ?

[Specz]

Guys, what are the chances we get turcotte in round 1? Thoughts on trading up for him?

[IBatch]

13 hours ago, aGENT said:

They play entirely different games. And are we talking theoretical healthy, progressing Juolevi or...? Juolevi will likely be a better all around D (assuming he gets back on track), Bouchard will likely put up more offense. 

 

Nope, not a pro scout. Are you?

 

Future watch is one list. Button's top 50 list doesn't even have Bouchard on it (it does have Dobson and Smith FWIW). My list is just fine thanks. That's the order I had them ranked prior to last draft...you could probably fiddle up and down with some of the guys in the middle with a year's worth of hindsight.

Button isn’t a pro scout.  He’s a talking head that gets his data from others.  ISS is the authority or baseline and others like THN use actual scouts in creating their rankings of which OJ is 66, Miller, 63 ...Bouchard 13 based on how well they predict their actual careers will be.  That’s their most recent list...it’s ok I’m in a bad mood sorry if I made it personal, I just don’t pretend to know more then the people that make a living making these things and happen to like what Bouchard brings to the table.  Ellis is still the current bar for small defenseman in the league although Krug is giving him a run for his money, that is until Hughes takes it over.  

 

Edit: sorry first sentence should have an anymore ahead of Button.  

Edited June 15, 2019 by IBatch

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, Specz said:

Guys, what are the chances we get turcotte in round 1? Thoughts on trading up for him?

From our spot at 10 it makes no sense to trade up.  We will have equal odds (closer this draft than many) of getting as good a player at ten as at 4.  

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Button isn’t a pro scout.  He’s a talking head that gets his data from others.  ISS is the authority or baseline and others like THN use actual scouts in creating their rankings of which OJ is 66, Miller, 63 ...Bouchard 13 based on how well they predict their actual careers will be.  That’s their most recent list...it’s ok I’m in a bad mood sorry if I made it personal, I just don’t pretend to know more then the people that make a living making these things and happen to like what Bouchard brings to the table.  Ellis is still the current bar for small defenseman in the league although Krug is giving him a run for his money, that is until Hughes takes it over.  

Actually, Button was not only a scout, but a director of scouting.  He’s been in scouting and management forever.  I guess he’s retired to broadcasting now.  He does know hockey.  If he’s seen guys play over lots of games, I think he’d have a fairly good read on them.

My wife loves Button’s hair.  Every time she sees him on TV she says he’s got really nice hair.  I kind of hate the guy actually.  

[Pure961089]

It’s more than just looking at stats, it’s about how their game will translate to the NHL in a couple years.  

 

Tier 1

Hughes

Kakko

Tier 2

Turcotte

Byram

Zegras

Tier 3 (any of these players in tier 3 could go anywhere, but they’re where I have them ranked) 

Cozens

Dach

Krebs

Boldy

Podkolzin

Boom or Bust Players.  

Newhook 

Caufield

Broberg

 

 

 

 

 

[Phat Fingers]

3 hours ago, Camel Toe Drag said:

The nhl has changed quite a bit since then...

Do you mean hard shooting RHD need not apply to the NHL?  

 

Bouchard can skate, his first steps are his biggest weakness.  He has time to show whether he can improve or not.  

 

The guy was a good pick for Edmonton.  Hughes is better IMO, which has changed from pre draft.  

 

Even with Hughes, we still need a Bouchard type player in our system.  Love Woo, Rathbone could pan out, beyond that, we don't have a top pairing RHD to match Hughes.  

 

 

 

 

[Phat Fingers]

3 hours ago, aGENT said:

Again, I'm pretty sure he'll have a solid (2nd pair) NHL career and he has a high floor and was a safe pick. Nothing wrong with any of that.

 

He just wasn't remotely the best D available there IMO.

 

Dahlin > Hughes > Dobson > Boqvist > Smith > Miller > Bouchard

You could be right Agent, but then again likely we are both going to be wrong with our predictions.  

 

I don't need to re hash the pre draft speculating from last year and we disagree on Bouchard.  

 

Horse is dead, no need to shoot it.  

[aGENT]

6 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Button isn’t a pro scout.  He’s a talking head that gets his data from others.  ISS is the authority or baseline and others like THN use actual scouts in creating their rankings of which OJ is 66, Miller, 63 ...Bouchard 13 based on how well they predict their actual careers will be.  That’s their most recent list...it’s ok I’m in a bad mood sorry if I made it personal, I just don’t pretend to know more then the people that make a living making these things and happen to like what Bouchard brings to the table.  Ellis is still the current bar for small defenseman in the league although Krug is giving him a run for his money, that is until Hughes takes it over.  

Button does watch and scout these kids fyi. And as I illustrated earlier, he was far from alone in assessing Bouchard as a lesser option in that draft or after.

 

And I do know a few people who are actual scouts/related fields FWIW, they tended to be of the same opinion. He's good, not great. So there's them and the sources I provided earlier who do 'know more than me' and 'make a living at it'. So I'm not just pretending to know more than these people. I in fact quite trust their opinions and hence inform mine from them.

[canuckledraggin]

On 6/13/2019 at 6:01 PM, Fanuck said:

I pointed to something similar in another thread that people didn't like hearing,  and had a LOT of bs replies to. That was the fact that all these 'elite' skating smaller stature players like Guderau,  Johnson,  Kucherov,  Point,  Arvidson,  ect.... all virtually disappeared in these playoffs.  They were nowhere to be found when the physicality rose to stratospheric levels and time/space to skate/dangle was not there. 

 

Sure,  people came back with Rat-boy being in the finals but I don't think it's debatable that the majority of smaller guys who dominated the reg season didn't show up in the post season strangely enough.   And I don't mean their production dropped off due to the nature of lower scoring playoff hockey - I mean these small guys were shadows of their regular season performances. I mean was it just a coincidence or a 'one-off' post season? 

 

That said I do wonder about a kid like QH - anyone thinking he's more elite than guys like Gudreau,  Kucherov,  Point ect...and that he somehow has something these other superstars lack which will make him immune to the physical intensity of playoff hockey is dreaming imo.    

 

No, I'm not saying he can't be successful,  just asking how he's different than these other stars who made zero impact in the playoffs?  Take the Homer glasses off people and just think about it for a minute. 

Think about what? The kid hasn't been to the playoffs yet and likely won't be for a couple more years. Also he plays defense and you didn't mention any defensemen as comparables. How about Tory Krug and Matt Grzelcyk. They seemed to do alright in the playoffs.