2019 NHL Entry Draft in Vancouver, BC

[WeneedLumme]

6 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

I don't buy that by the time we drafted 8 players? That a defenceman was not BPA in any one of those situations.  Simple logic says a D will be 33% of the time.  

Simplistic logic might say that but real logic, no. You talk a lot about math, but your argument makes it clear that you never studied statistics. While taking the entire 217 player draft population might result in D being BPA 33% of the time, the Canucks sample size of what, 9 players? No. A sample that small could easily contain no Dmen.

[Nuxfanabroad]

Is it a conscious strategy to target/sign college FA's, as they are a little older, & easier to project.? (prob been stated in this thread before). That might be the ticket.

[Canuck Surfer]

10 hours ago, stawns said:

He was pretty candid about finding d from other sources, like the NCAA........which he's done. 

Sure did.

 

In terms of the odd's I spoke to?  A 24 year old college free agent, as Benning signed a couple, is already well advanced in their development compared to draft aged guys. More likely to be NHL players. And who's development has passed guys originally better than them. But contribution guys if we're lucky. Players originally undrafted are extremely rarely, if ever, the types of world class athletes that are game defining, game breaking talent. If they were, they would have been signed at age 20 or 21. Teves and Rafferty were also not the most sought after college UFA's. They were not good enough to be college players at 18, which is why they are graduating at 24. 

 

They are there to provide an alternative game style in our system, as roster options to Brisbois & Sautner. More likely, add a game style we want to implement in the NHL, also on our farm team. So prospects developing can play the same system in the AHL. I don't think they will be as impactful as Tanev, or even Stecher. Who have become core, and in Tanev's case an important player. The odd's of them being a Rafalski, who becomes a mature age find, undersized PMD that becomes a hall of famer? Are next to, in fact below sub zero.  

 

It is among the dumbest things I have heard from our management group. It was a cop out statement.

 

They also said they specifically targeted size size and players that are hard to play against in the draft.

 

From my take, they got away from BPA because they had an agenda. And it sorta caught them with their pants down by the time they made all their draft selections. 

[Canuck Surfer]

You have to draft enough D if you expect to have them in your system in adequate talent & proportion. 

 

Drafting no D in 8 picks is among the most irresponsible things I can imagine. Its going to set us back.

 

Bennings 6 year draft record with D;

 

1) 1st round, 2 players Hughes & Juolevi in 6 years.  I'm happy with that.

2) 2knd round, 1 player, Jett Woo.  Dangerous track record.  No wonder we don't have a ready supply lining up to join our roster.

3) 3rd round, 2 guys, Brisbois & Tryamkin.  Actually pretty good.  2 in 5 is a good ration & appears at least one possibly two NHL calibre guys.

4) 4th round, 1 Guy, Rathbone. Also appears a hit, but 1 in 6, if in rebuilding there must be a way of acquiring a few extra 4th rounders so we can hit more often.

5) 5th round, 3 Gunnarsson, Forlsing & Utunen.  Only round where we exceed the natural demand for players. 2 out of 6 on ice are D. Good picks in Utunen & Forsling.

6) 6th and 7th round 3 guys, Tate Olsen, Mackenzie Stewart, Matt Brassard.

 

We are really relying on some late round hits, in guys like Forsling, Utunen & Rathbone, to be part of our core, #4 & 5 D. And we need virtually a 100% success rate in the guys drafted in the 1st 3 rounds. If you believe in building by the draft?  Instead we are signing 24 year old college UFA's.  11 players into 42 possible picks, 6 of them in late rounds. The odds of getting top 4 D from late picks is poor. Forsling, as an example, ''made it.'' But he's playing the 6th D role in Chicago. And appears he will be pushed out of their system by higher draft picks emerging. A 200 game career is still a solid accomplishment for a 5th round pick? Hutton, a Gillis 5th rounder, appears he will have a better career. But is not a difference maker. This was a year we could have loaded a weaker D prospect pool because we had 8 picks.

 

The real reason Benning was signing 24 year old free agents, was because we had not invested enough in recent years. Its a stopgap & will repeat itself.

[Canuck Surfer]

9 hours ago, 73 Percent said:

I dont necessarily look at it with individual ifs. Instead of 15 questionsask yourself 1. Will our additions/development gain us 9 more pts than it did this year.

 

I believe they will. Thats what we needed to make the show.

Miller was a 9 point increment in the standings investment. I believe it will accomplish that as you do. Add a UFA D and we are a play off team IMO.

 

You also have to have the bank account to pay for all the required pieces. Its not that he wont be useful or was not a good target. Or that we paid an unfair price.  We just had not saved enough (assets) in our bank account that it was a good time to invest in Miller. I worry we will struggle to support the play off team, with enough, and enough high quality prospects, to push us from play off team, to contender. I think Miller, paid for in assets, futures, was a year too early to jump in so hard.

 

Podkolzin, Hoglander, Juolevi, Madden, Woo, Lind, Brisbois, Lockwood, Rathbone, Utunen is my own top ten prospect list ranking. It could have used a 12th overall next year.  

 

We're spending our free cap dollars now. Not next year, or the year after.  Why not, we wont have a pick? That spend will be exhausted.

 

Is that prospect pool enough to push the team into being a contender in the years following?    

 

edit, where would DiPietro fit, and who would fall out of top ten?  Or will he get traded?

[73 Percent]

2 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

Miller was a 9 point increment in the standings investment. I believe it will accomplish that as you do. Add a UFA D and we are a play off team IMO.

 

You also have to have the bank account to pay for all the required pieces. Its not that he wont be useful or was not a good target. Or that we paid an unfair price.  We just had not saved enough (assets) in our bank account that it was a good time to invest in Miller. I worry we will struggle to support the play off team, with enough, and enough high quality prospects, to push us from play off team, to contender. I think Miller, paid for in assets, futures, was a year too early to jump in so hard.

 

Podkolzin, Hoglander, Juolevi, Madden, Woo, Lind, Brisbois, Lockwood, Rathbone, Utunen is my own top ten prospect list ranking. It could have used a 12th overall next year.  

 

We're spending our free cap dollars now. Not next year, or the year after.  Why not, we wont have a pick? That spend will be exhausted.

 

Is that prospect pool enough to push the team into being a contender in the years following?    

 

edit, where would DiPietro fit, and who would fall out of top ten?  Or will he get traded?

You realize if we have the 12th overall we keep the pick right? 

[Alflives]

11 minutes ago, 73 Percent said:

You realize if we have the 12th overall we keep the pick right? 

73, is that our option to keep the pick?  I wonder if, after the lottery, we would have the option to give that pick to Tampa?  Or would we have to decide before the lottery?  If it’s pick 12 to 15, I think I’d let TBay have it.  Then we could use the 2021 first, if we needed, to fill another hole in our lineup.  

[73 Percent]

8 minutes ago, Alflives said:

73, is that our option to keep the pick?  I wonder if, after the lottery, we would have the option to give that pick to Tampa?  Or would we have to decide before the lottery?  If it’s pick 12 to 15, I think I’d let TBay have it.  Then we could use the 2021 first, if we needed, to fill another hole in our lineup.  

Of we dont make the playoffs next year the pick turns into a 2021 1st. I can't say for sure but it sounds clear cut to me.

 

At the end of the day we have 2 years to turn this pick into a 20s pick. If we cant make the playoffs in the next 2 years thats &^@#ing embarassing. This rebuild cant last forever. It ends now or next offseason. We've had enough time to turn it around. Time for some of the kids to not be kids anymore. 

 

[vannuck59]

It all depends on D what JB can get done. We add two good D men and we are off to the races. 9 points more to make it we are close . Time to take long hard looks at the baggage players . Up grade, trade or Sign its only money. Future cap problems JB will sort out .

[Wolfgang Durst]

 

HA HA HA. Seider was more than shocked. Stevie Yzerman threw a hand grenade into Rogers Arena.

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

3 hours ago, Wolfgang Durst said:

 

HA HA HA. Seider was more than shocked. Stevie Yzerman threw a hand grenade into Rogers Arena.

It was a surprising pick, but I think a couple teams probably had him top-10, and he might not have been there if Detroit traded down.

 

Canucks might even have had Seider top-10 as well, since apparently Pod was the only player remaining available on our list when we picked (and apparently we would have traded down if he wasn’t there at 10).

[cyoung]

8 hours ago, Wolfgang Durst said:

 

HA HA HA. Seider was more than shocked. Stevie Yzerman threw a hand grenade into Rogers Arena.

Dude is a character, Detroit added some personality as well as a top tier prospect.

[Nucker 67]

That Traikos guy (TOR media) sure is a Leafs homer. He gave the Leafs an "A" at the Draft, I believe, because they grabbed Nic Robertson, saying he's a great goal scorer (no mention of his small size). But then he gave MTL a C+, for taking Caufield. lol He also gave the Canucks a B (behind OTT at a B+), hinting that Hoglander is too small and Podkolzin might not even report. lol 

 

I really don't care who they picked after Round 2. Maybe Keppen will be a nice surprise, maybe not. I'm excited for Podkolzin and Hoglander. With them trading for J.T. Miller and looking for upgrade the D this off season, I think the rebuild or retool or whatever it is, is done. Goodbye Top 10 draft picks (unless they get one in a trade), and I'm okay with that. I want to see Canucks playoff hockey again. 

 

In 3 years?

 

J.T. Miller - Pettersson - Podkolzin

Hoglander - Horvat - Boeser

Pearson - Gaudette - Lind

? - Madden - Lockwood

Gadjovich/Keppen

 

Hughes - Tryamkin

Juolevi - Woo

Rathbone

 

Demko

DiPietro

 

 

 

[Googlie]

12 hours ago, Alflives said:

73, is that our option to keep the pick?  I wonder if, after the lottery, we would have the option to give that pick to Tampa?  Or would we have to decide before the lottery?  If it’s pick 12 to 15, I think I’d let TBay have it.  Then we could use the 2021 first, if we needed, to fill another hole in our lineup.  

Only if they wanted to dance.  If we miss the playoffs next year, the 2020 pick is ours, the 2021 pick is Tampa's.  We can offer to swap picks (either pre or post lottery),  but Tampa can refuse.  They would likely assess the probability of the next years pick being lower or higher than 2020's and make their decision accordingly 

[aGENT]

17 hours ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Is it a conscious strategy to target/sign college FA's, as they are a little older, & easier to project.? (prob been stated in this thread before). That might be the ticket.

Especially vs the rounds 4-7 D we're talking about here....yeah...

 

Not saying we should NEVER take a D in those rounds but if you have other guys you like there and college FA's to target, it's really being made FAR too big of a deal over for ONE draft.

[Rob_Zepp]

On 8/11/2018 at 9:54 PM, Kanukfanatic said:

I am not really interested in another russian at this point (not at a high draft pick). They are a bit of a cliche...too many of them are examples of lazy hockey players and many don't like what they are offered. Tryamkin is a good example for the Canucks. He had a great opportunity and pissed it away. Honestly I loved him, but he thought he deserved more ice time after showing up fat and out of shape. Then he leaves cuz he doesn't like western culture. Oh boy....we should all change the way we live so tryamkin feels better.

 

I do not like to make generalizations but after tryamkin I don't want the Canucks picking another russian unless they have been in North America for a while and have played in North America for a while and have shown they could adjust.

 

So unless it is a low round pick forget it imo.

 

Edit: look at yakupov..the lazy goof is blaming everyone but himself for busting in the NHL. Pathetic. 

Well, uh....

 

[Rob_Zepp]

13 hours ago, 73 Percent said:

Of we dont make the playoffs next year the pick turns into a 2021 1st. I can't say for sure but it sounds clear cut to me.

 

At the end of the day we have 2 years to turn this pick into a 20s pick. If we cant make the playoffs in the next 2 years thats &^@#ing embarassing. This rebuild cant last forever. It ends now or next offseason. We've had enough time to turn it around. Time for some of the kids to not be kids anymore. 

 

One of the most logical posts on CDC regarding all the recent whining etc.    

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

One of the most logical posts on CDC regarding all the recent whining etc.    

Corey Hirsh was saying he thinks Podkolzin could end up being the best player in the draft - is he just over-excited or do you and your scouting buddies think there's something to that? 

[Rob_Zepp]

1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said:

Corey Hirsh was saying he thinks Podkolzin could end up being the best player in the draft - is he just over-excited or do you and your scouting buddies think there's something to that? 

The only thing (other than the over-discussed and, frankly, really non-issue "Russia" thing) that could potentially hold him back is his skating.   Not his speed - he is both explosive (great first three steps) and very fast....could be as fast as Virtanen but his edge work is not yet "there" like, say, EP40 or Hughes who seem to be able to turn and break the other team's ankles.   So before I get people upset, he is a very good skater but seemingly to get into that top 3 or top 6 realm in the league now, you need to be an elite skater (and average skaters are simply becoming challenged to stay in the league).   Given he was 17 on draft night and played in the KHL AND was not physically dominated speaks a lot though.   Further, as a 17  year old he was not only picked for their WJC team but had big minutes and key leveraged situation deployment....and this from a coach (Valeri Bragin) who almost NEVER does that for a 17 year old.

 

The Canucks have also just found a player who has all the leadership signs of at Horvat.   Once he figures out the language (and he will), don't be shocked if this kid has a letter on his chest of some type by the time he is 24 or 25.

 

Will admit to only seeing him live a few times but each time he was a straight-line player who went through people to get the puck - he simply bowled people out of the way as if they were simply annoyances that were to be removed and not given another thought once he had the puck.   Kid oozes confidence.     Somewhere I saw notes saying he had to work on his shot - my opinion that is crap, the kid can fire a puck and isn't afraid to either.   

 

Of course until he does anything in NHL he is just a prospect but this kid could really become as good as the top two drafted forwards in this draft - yes, I have said it and think it because of the complete game he brings.   He could be that rare breed who can score, pass and hit who is all over the scoresheet including PIM stats.

 

I see him as an upside scoring/points like Panarin (similar hands and moves) and overall play like Bergeron but with more offensive upside.

 

 

Finally, and I plagiarized this from a buddy, but here is generally what the consensus I was hearing heading into Friday:

 

Vasili Podkolzin is considered by most scouts to be the consensus 3rd overall selection in the upcoming draft. A responsible player on both offense and defense, the young Russian winger plays with a tenacity that can’t be taught and is a bigger body than most of the others in the top 10. He’s a good skater, has soft hands, good vision and uses his size to his advantage.

[JM_]

6 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

The only thing (other than the over-discussed and, frankly, really non-issue "Russia" thing) that could potentially hold him back is his skating.   Not his speed - he is both explosive (great first three steps) and very fast....could be as fast as Virtanen but his edge work is not yet "there" like, say, EP40 or Hughes who seem to be able to turn and break the other team's ankles.   So before I get people upset, he is a very good skater but seemingly to get into that top 3 or top 6 realm in the league now, you need to be an elite skater (and average skaters are simply becoming challenged to stay in the league).   Given he was 17 on draft night and played in the KHL AND was not physically dominated speaks a lot though.   Further, as a 17  year old he was not only picked for their WJC team but had big minutes and key leveraged situation deployment....and this from a coach (Valeri Bragin) who almost NEVER does that for a 17 year old.

 

The Canucks have also just found a player who has all the leadership signs of at Horvat.   Once he figures out the language (and he will), don't be shocked if this kid has a letter on his chest of some type by the time he is 24 or 25.

 

Will admit to only seeing him live a few times but each time he was a straight-line player who went through people to get the puck - he simply bowled people out of the way as if they were simply annoyances that were to be removed and not given another thought once he had the puck.   Kid oozes confidence.     Somewhere I saw notes saying he had to work on his shot - my opinion that is crap, the kid can fire a puck and isn't afraid to either.   

 

Of course until he does anything in NHL he is just a prospect but this kid could really become as good as the top two drafted forwards in this draft - yes, I have said it and think it because of the complete game he brings.   He could be that rare breed who can score, pass and hit who is all over the scoresheet including PIM stats.

 

I see him as an upside scoring/points like Panarin (similar hands and moves) and overall play like Bergeron but with more offensive upside.

 

 

Finally, and I plagiarized this from a buddy, but here is generally what the consensus I was hearing heading into Friday:

 

Vasili Podkolzin is considered by most scouts to be the consensus 3rd overall selection in the upcoming draft. A responsible player on both offense and defense, the young Russian winger plays with a tenacity that can’t be taught and is a bigger body than most of the others in the top 10. He’s a good skater, has soft hands, good vision and uses his size to his advantage.

damn. Its almost like we want to drop in the lotto from now on.

 

Thanks for the summary. I was distracted by the whole KHL discussion and didn't pay much attention to him, I was thinking Broberg or Soderstrom as the likely picks but now i'm very happy it didn't work out that way.