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2018-19 Utica Comets Thread


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Sounds like the bloom is off the rose in Utica. After 10 straight losses to start the inaugural season, the fans showed up and screamed their faces off despite the weak team that was in front of them. Now we hear reports of a soldout building, but lots of empty seats and fans wandering around the concourse and grumbling during the game.

 

I wouldn't hesitate to bring this team to Vancouver, preferably the PNE Coliseum. A sold out crowd of 3k is great, but with decent pricing the Vancouver AHL team could draw from 7-10k easily.

 

Then you have the young players coming into the franchise through draft and trade, who come to development camps and showcases in B.C., who probably feel like they've been exiled to a town of 60,000 in upstate New York. If we were willing to put an ECHL team in Alaska, I don't see the difference in having an AHL team charter from our parent city.

 

Then there's the inevitable fishbowl crowd, who is going to say leave these kids away from the outside pressures of the media and fans. It's hard to say what the difference is between the tiny fishbowl of Utica and living in a world class city like Vancouver. These kids are going to be encouraged from fans in this market. The media already calls them for interviews across the continent so I don't see significant added media pressure. Even if there was added pressure, It's something that should be encouraged, considering they will have to get used to it during their tenure in this market.

 

I'd be thrilled with seeing the junior Canucks in Vancouver next year.

 

 

 

 

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On 11/18/2018 at 9:23 PM, BlastPast said:

Tampa Bay haven't had anywhere even remotely close to the injury issues Vancouver have and they were picking top of the draft while Vancouver were making the playoffs / legit SC contenders. I'm not saying TB haven't been well managed but they aren't in comparable situations imo.

It's about Tampa's approach to prospect development in Syracuse vs the approach in Utica.  Nashville and Pittsburgh think like Tampa - players develop best when playing in a winning environment and you need strong veterans to help them.

 

Syracuse has 15 players and 1 goalie on ELCs who are not waiver eligible - It's the 2015 draft class and onwards.  They have always picked after the Canucks those years.  The Comets have 10 players on ELCs + Demko.  ELC players recalled - Cernak for Tampa and Gaudette for the Canucks.

 

Edited by mll
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Personally, I appreciate the local viewpoints from Utica fans. Don't shoot the messenger(s) ! We have some players down on the farm that had high expectations on their shoulders. Almost no-one has risen to the challenge. In fact if Rob Zepp was not pumping OJ's tyres, there would be none.

 

All the shiny toys and no uplifting story ! OJ, Jasek, Gadjovich, Lind, Palmu, Dahlen. No real celebrations there ! I'm not a negative leaner, but have grown numb to the 'negative ninjas' after 4 years of following CDC. The Utica guys are stuck in a valley at the moment. Let them vent !

Edited by SingleThorn
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8 hours ago, Canuckster86 said:

thats pretty sad, maybe we were at max contracts for vets?

It shouldn't have been an issue of not wanting to use one of 50 NHL contracts on a player like TJ Hensick because he ended up signing an AHL contract late that summer with the LA Kings team in Ontario, CA.  More and more veterans are going that route because NHL teams want to keep extra NHL contract slots open for March/April signings for NCAA free agents and undrafted junior players.   Hell even Alex Grenier signed an AHL contract with the Habs farm team this season.  It allows the player to stay in North America if they are not interested in moving to Europe to continue their career and the NHL team gets a quality depth player to work with the kids in the AHL.  Plus if there is a need that player can then be signed to a NHL contract at any point during the season like they did with Darren Archibald last year.

 

As far as the vet rules in the AHL a team can dress 5 guys each game that started the season with more than 260 games at the AHL or higher level and a 6th if one of them has over 260 games but under 320.  I don't remember where the Comets were at the start of the 2016-17 season but the vet rule can always be managed.  And again it comes down to management with regards to the players that they chose to sign.  I have been and will continue to be a critic of using two of five veteran slots on plumbers like Carter Bancks and Wacey Hamilton.  These guys are solid fourth line checkers and really earn their paychecks on the penalty kill.  But because of the constant holes in the line up are always being asked to take on roles that they are not skilled enough to take.  Both were just signed by Johnson to two year AHL extensions.  A better use of the veteran signing would be to sign a more skilled player in a position of need such as center and fill the fourth line checker and PK specialist with a younger non veteran.  Cole Cassels could fill that role and may have been willing to sign an AHL contract rather than head to Germany to continue his career.  If not Cole then someone similar. 

 

 

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Cull is not the problem.  Demko is a major loss and if on his game  makes it possible to gain at least a point every night.  Game changer.   The team lacks a solid d-man and PP point man like Phil Holm (he was a key piece before he was traded last year).  No one close to his caliber this season.  Never thought I would miss Cassels - but he was solid last season, and would have been a younger and healthier option at center.  Great defender and pesky PK guy.   Also miss Comrie  - gave it his all even at off positions and was a physical presence   The new blood hasn't lived up to hype.    Combined - lost players, injuries and call-ups and this is an ECHL team playing in the AHL. 

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23 minutes ago, SingleThorn said:

Personally, I appreciate the local viewpoints from Utica fans. Don't shoot the messenger(s) ! We have some players down on the farm that had high expectations on their shoulders. Almost no-one has risen to the challenge. In fact if Rob Zepp was not pumping OJ's tyres, there would be none.

 

All the shiny toys and no uplifting story ! OJ, Jasek, Gadjovich, Lind, Palmu, Dahlen. No real celebrations there ! I'm not a negative leaner, but have grown numb to the 'negative ninjas' after 4 years of following CDC. The Utica guys are stuck in a valley at the moment. Let them vent !

The rookies are just that....rookies.  If the expectations were that they were going to drive this team on their own then the expectations were too high.  The problem is the lack of quality depth players around them to create a winning environment so that they don't skate off the ice each game hanging their heads to a near empty building because most people left when the 50/50 number was announced with about three minutes left in the game.

 

Yes there have been a lot of injuries this year just like the year before and the year before that.  But I won't stop saying it until they finally do something about it....they had no center depth from day one. 

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1 hour ago, UticaHockey said:

You may get your wish as early as next year and if not certainly in a couple of years if Seattle comes into the NHL and places an AHL team in the Pacific Northwest.  I'm sure they will be popular at first with the excitement of having the farm team in Vancouver or Abbotsford.  But how many people will continue to pay for tickets in the long run if the product on the ice is unskilled, lacks energy and loses 7 of 9 home games?  Will you personally support this team through thick and thin by purchasing season tickets every year or will you be part of the "I may go to a few games to check them out" crowd?

 

The Comets have 3,500 season tickets in a building that seats 3,914.  Yes the building is small but that season ticket total is still higher than 75% of the league including cities 10X the population of Utica and buildings large enough to support a NHL team. I've been a season ticket holder for all six years and will continue to be as long as the Comets are in Utica.  I suspect that the other Utica posters in here are multi year season ticket holders as well.  We continue to support this team year in and year out but that doesn't mean we will be all unicorns and rainbows in regards to the way that Benning/Johnson manage the farm team.

Well said.

 

I have no problem with your complaints about shortcomings of the Canucks management regarding the Comets. Just because you are our farm team doesn't mean you have to like getting the short end of the stick week after week. 

 

I think Vancouver could have helped you more but as I said to you before the Comets have had the misfortune to be acquired by an NHL team, who at the time was in just about the worst state in the league. Our previous management were imo incompetent from 2011 onwards and that doesn't even cover their drafting.

 

Imo these last few years have been transition years. Unfortunately we transitioned from so far back it will still be 2 years before Utica gets a decent roster from Vancouver. That said, there is nothing to stop us making a few more AHL signings when the Comets are hurting. Surely if Linden's "winning environment" was relative in the NHL it is just as relative in the AHL now that we are starting to see our prospects filter through.

 

I think the Canucks have got a good thing with having their farm in Utica and as I have said on a number of occasions I would not want to see that connection severed before it has really got started - Seattle or no Seattle.

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8 hours ago, canuckledraggin said:

Sounds like the bloom is off the rose in Utica. After 10 straight losses to start the inaugural season, the fans showed up and screamed their faces off despite the weak team that was in front of them. Now we hear reports of a soldout building, but lots of empty seats and fans wandering around the concourse and grumbling during the game.

 

I wouldn't hesitate to bring this team to Vancouver, preferably the PNE Coliseum. A sold out crowd of 3k is great, but with decent pricing the Vancouver AHL team could draw from 7-10k easily.

 

Then you have the young players coming into the franchise through draft and trade, who come to development camps and showcases in B.C., who probably feel like they've been exiled to a town of 60,000 in upstate New York. If we were willing to put an ECHL team in Alaska, I don't see the difference in having an AHL team charter from our parent city.

 

Then there's the inevitable fishbowl crowd, who is going to say leave these kids away from the outside pressures of the media and fans. It's hard to say what the difference is between the tiny fishbowl of Utica and living in a world class city like Vancouver. These kids are going to be encouraged from fans in this market. The media already calls them for interviews across the continent so I don't see significant added media pressure. Even if there was added pressure, It's something that should be encouraged, considering they will have to get used to it during their tenure in this market.

 

I'd be thrilled with seeing the junior Canucks in Vancouver next year.

 

 

 

 

What a joke. If the Comets were playing like they are in Utica, in the PNE Coliseum, they would be performing in front of one man and his turkey burger - and the turkey burger would be making more noise.

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1 hour ago, alfstonker said:

What a joke. If the Comets were playing like they are in Utica, in the PNE Coliseum, they would be performing in front of one man and his turkey burger - and the turkey burger would be making more noise.

If they made tickets affordable in a way that they can't do at Rogers arena, they would sell plenty of tickets. Then when they call some one up, they wouldn't have to take cross continent flights and show up 3 time zones away.

 

It works in Toronto and Winnipeg, so I don't see the difference. Great joke about the turkey burger though. I'm not sure you're preparing those correctly.

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22 minutes ago, canuckledraggin said:

Then when they call some one up, they wouldn't have to take cross continent flights and show up 3 time zones away.

Works great if they are playing on the West Coast. They're playing out East quite often and Utica works just fine !

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51 minutes ago, canuckledraggin said:

If they made tickets affordable in a way that they can't do at Rogers arena, they would sell plenty of tickets. Then when they call some one up, they wouldn't have to take cross continent flights and show up 3 time zones away.

 

It works in Toronto and Winnipeg, so I don't see the difference. Great joke about the turkey burger though. I'm not sure you're preparing those correctly.

What is your definition of affordable and would you buy season tickets at that price?

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10 hours ago, mll said:

It's about Tampa's approach to prospect development in Syracuse vs the approach in Utica.  Nashville and Pittsburgh think like Tampa - players develop best when playing in a winning environment and you need strong veterans to help them.

 

Syracuse has 15 players and 1 goalie on ELCs who are not waiver eligible - It's the 2015 draft class and onwards.  They have always picked after the Canucks those years.  The Comets have 10 players on ELCs + Demko.  ELC players recalled - Cernak for Tampa and Gaudette for the Canucks.

 

 I'm not disagreeing with the fact that TB have drafted well  and had AHL success in recent years I'm just not of the opinion that the Comets have been as poorly managed as you're suggesting . Didn't the Comets make the playoffs last season and take the eventual champion Marlies to 5 games (in a 5 game series) ?  That was , again, while they and parent team were hit hard by injuries. This season by my count they also have 12 players on ELC (incl. Demko/Laplante) .  I'm not familiar enough with AHL veterans to say whether they should or should't have added players of that type but injuries with Vancouver have taken a few away for prolonged stretches and kept Gaudette up for longer than I'm sure they planned.   To not factor that in when appraising performance is a little disingenuous imo.  

 

I'm not suggesting things have gone optimally but the idea that management don't value the presence of veterans to benefit youth is inconsistent with everything they have said and their actions, for the most part,  reflect that.  

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1 hour ago, BlastPast said:

 I'm not disagreeing with the fact that TB have drafted well  and had AHL success in recent years I'm just not of the opinion that the Comets have been as poorly managed as you're suggesting . Didn't the Comets make the playoffs last season and take the eventual champion Marlies to 5 games (in a 5 game series) ?  That was , again, while they and parent team were hit hard by injuries. This season by my count they also have 12 players on ELC (incl. Demko/Laplante) .  I'm not familiar enough with AHL veterans to say whether they should or should't have added players of that type but injuries with Vancouver have taken a few away for prolonged stretches and kept Gaudette up for longer than I'm sure they planned.   To not factor that in when appraising performance is a little disingenuous imo.  

 

I'm not suggesting things have gone optimally but the idea that management don't value the presence of veterans to benefit youth is inconsistent with everything they have said and their actions, for the most part,  reflect that.  

 

I didn't see why you brought up the Canucks drafting later than Tampa as these players are no longer in the minors.  I was only indicating that it's about development philosophy.  

 

Comets fans sound frustrated because they feel there are not enough skilled veterans to help develop prospects. One of the issues raised was the lack of playmaking Cs and the Canucks deciding to send Gagner to the Marlies because he would take ice time away from prospects, and it was fairer to him to be in Toronto where he could more easily go and visit his family.  Laurence Gillman in Toronto was talking about how it was a no-brainer to bring in Gagner with his skills and experience because he was going to make their prospects better and help them develop.   

 

Gaudette is a prospect on an ELC.  He too needs support to develop.     

 

The Utica playoffs started after the Canucks season was over.  

 

Laplante has not played since November 2017 so I didn't count him.  CapFriendly has 10 skaters + Demko or 11 players.  Syracuse have 15 + 1 goalie so 16 players on ELCs.  Each team have one ELC player recalled.  

 

Edited by mll
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1 hour ago, mll said:

 

I didn't see why you brought up the Canucks drafting later than Tampa as these players are no longer in the minors.  I was only indicating that it's about development philosophy.  

 

Comets fans sound frustrated because they feel there are not enough skilled veterans to help develop prospects. One of the issues raised was the lack of playmaking Cs and the Canucks deciding to send Gagner to the Marlies because he would take ice time away from prospects, and it was fairer to him to be in Toronto where he could more easily go and visit his family.  Laurence Gillman in Toronto was talking about how it was a no-brainer to bring in Gagner with his skills and experience because he was going to make their prospects better and help them develop.   

 

Gaudette is a prospect on an ELC.  He too needs support to develop.     

 

The Utica playoffs started after the Canucks season was over.  

 

Laplante has not played since November 2017 so I didn't count him.  CapFriendly has 10 skaters + Demko or 11 players.  Syracuse have 15 + 1 goalie so 16 players on ELCs.  Each team have one ELC player recalled.  

 

I brought it up because it's relevant , the players they accumulated 4+ years ago have, in part,  given them the ability to keep guys in Syracuse longer which obviously helps that teams performance.  The Gagner issue seems to be one where they decided to do a solid for a veteran player and put him before the team, this can be debated but it seems to be the case. 

 

Not sure why the timing of playoffs is relevant as they made the playoffs during the Canucks season unless accomplishments while remotely fully staffed aren't eligible for consideration.

 

I'm not suggesting there isn't needs for the team but surely they would be less noticeable if they had a full complement of players (esp. goaltending).

 

As for the team not having the right philosophy we are going to have to agree to disagree, Ryan Johnson seems to have a good grasp of what is necessary 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, BlastPast said:

I brought it up because it's relevant , the players they accumulated 4+ years ago have, in part,  given them the ability to keep guys in Syracuse longer which obviously helps that teams performance.  The Gagner issue seems to be one where they decided to do a solid for a veteran player and put him before the team, this can be debated but it seems to be the case. 

 

Not sure why the timing of playoffs is relevant as they made the playoffs during the Canucks season unless accomplishments while remotely fully staffed aren't eligible for consideration.

 

I'm not suggesting there isn't needs for the team but surely they would be less noticeable if they had a full complement of players (esp. goaltending).

 

As for the team not having the right philosophy we are going to have to agree to disagree, Ryan Johnson seems to have a good grasp of what is necessary 

 

 

I don't agree with this in the slightest.  Just look at the list of players that have moved from Syracuse to Tampa Bay in the past three years.

 

Forwards: Yanni Gourde, Anthony Cirelli, Adam Erne

Defense: Erik Cernak, Slater Koekkoek

 

And then if you go back three years before that there is another impressive list that will include Nikita Kucherov, Tylor Johnson, Ondrej Palat, Cedric Paquette and Andrej Vasilevsky.  I didn't even include Brayden Point because he only played in 9 games for the Crunch as a late season addition.

 

Who has Vancouver developed in the AHL over that same time period?  Tampa Bay continues to develop young talent in Syracuse while always emphasizing a winning environment.  One more example for you.....a couple of weeks ago Tampa Bay placed Cory Conacher on waivers to send him to the Crunch.  CoCo is a tremendous AHL player and locker room guy.  The same day that they placed him on waivers they signed him a one way $700K contract extension for next season.  A poison pill so to speak to discourage another team from claiming him off waivers because they would be on the hook for the one way contract next year as well.  This is how much the Lightning values veteran leadership and winning in the AHL.

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7 minutes ago, UticaHockey said:

I don't agree with this in the slightest.  Just look at the list of players that have moved from Syracuse to Tampa Bay in the past three years.

 

Forwards: Yanni Gourde, Anthony Cirelli, Adam Erne

Defense: Erik Cernak, Slater Koekkoek

 

And then if you go back three years before that there is another impressive list that will include Nikita Kucherov, Tylor Johnson, Ondrej Palat, Cedric Paquette and Andrej Vasilevsky.  I didn't even include Brayden Point because he only played in 9 games for the Crunch as a late season addition.

 

Who has Vancouver developed in the AHL over that same time period?  Tampa Bay continues to develop young talent in Syracuse while always emphasizing a winning environment.  One more example for you.....a couple of weeks ago Tampa Bay placed Cory Conacher on waivers to send him to the Crunch.  CoCo is a tremendous AHL player and locker room guy.  The same day that they placed him on waivers they signed him a one way $700K contract extension for next season.  A poison pill so to speak to discourage another team from claiming him off waivers because they would be on the hook for the one way contract next year as well.  This is how much the Lightning values veteran leadership and winning in the AHL.

I'm talking about 08-13 , while Van. was in the playoffs/ SC finals/winning Pres. trophies TB were building a core of players that now occupy many of their minutes at the NHL level.  There has been a trickle down benefit that has helped them succeed at the AHL level along with obv. great development .  Not sure why TB doing things well is an indictment of Utica's philosophy.  Are there many  available AHL vets just waiting for a call from Ryan Johnson/Vancouver ?  Sincere question, you might know better than me.

 

Van. has defo. done less development in the AHL (but have done more in Europe/Ncaa) but that isn't the point I'm debating, we're talking about philosophy  and we are just going to have to disagree on that issue.  

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8 minutes ago, BlastPast said:

I'm talking about 08-13 , while Van. was in the playoffs/ SC finals/winning Pres. trophies TB were building a core of players that now occupy many of their minutes at the NHL level.  There has been a trickle down benefit that has helped them succeed at the AHL level along with obv. great development .  Not sure why TB doing things well is an indictment of Utica's philosophy.  Are there many  available AHL vets just waiting for a call from Ryan Johnson/Vancouver ?  Sincere question, you might know better than me.

 

Van. has defo. done less development in the AHL (but have done more in Europe/Ncaa) but that isn't the point I'm debating, we're talking about philosophy  and we are just going to have to disagree on that issue.  

What Vancouver did in 08-13 is not relevant to the Comets now. 

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