[Proposal] Longshot - Ottawa

[JM_]

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

Now before everyone dons their flame throwers, I realize this is a bit of a long shot as I doubt they'd give up their shiny new toy... but they also REALLY want to get rid of Ryan's contract (and nobody's taking on that for a bag of pucks).

 

To OTT - Gagner (send a bit of short term cap back and good veteran presence), Goldobin (they get a decent top 6 prospect) and likely a 3rd piece ('B' prospect like Lockwood or a more fringe guy like Boucher/Gaunce/Leipsic  etc).

 

To VAN - Ryan (perhaps with $1.25m +/- retained) and (the long shot)... Brady Tkachuck.

 

Again, like I said, likely a long shot with their shiny new toy but it would get most of Ryan's 4 more years $7.25m off their books which should equal a good chunk of value (and likely allow them a better return on a Karlsson trade as well). And they get some (mostly young) forward depth back.

 

Clears some of our log jam of more middling guys, gives us a veteran guy who could probably play 1/2 decent (if vastly over paid) top 6 wing with some size to help shelter our smaller, skilled kids and a replacement for him likely ready in a year'ish that slides Ryan down. Look to compliance buyout Ryan after the next CBA. Until then, like the guys we just signed, his cap isn't really an issue for us and he replaces Gagner's vet spot.

 

I don't mind this. OTT probably wouldn't retain anything and who knows, Ryan might actually score 15 goals here. 

[wildcam]

54 minutes ago, SingleThorn said:

I think that Ottawa is under major pressure to not forfeit a top 5 pick in the next draft. If Brady Tkachuk can help this year, he's staying put.

Ottawa might need Ryan't contract to keep above cap floor.? 

[Nuxfanabroad]

It's more realistic to help them improve their roster of 23(taking a big cap hit back, like Gaborik), & a couple more futures from them get tossed in.

 

Why not? We have too many bodies..so consolidate them into precise needs:

 

OTT: Gaborik, Anderson, Dzingle, Harpur, Chlapik(for Utica), 2019 2nd r pick   ..about 12,000,000 AAV

 

Van: Gagner, Markstrom, Hutton(retain 50%), Pouliot, Granlund  ..about 10,800,000

 

3 birds, 1 stone.

 

- Take away from Avs potential top-5 pick(perhaps this boosts Sens 5 slots higher?)

- Help Sens keep head above water. They save about 3 mill, while adding an extra body(5 NHL'ers; whereas we get only 4)

- Pinpoints needs Van could really use. LARGE lh-d(Harpur); 2nd Line C(Dzingle..who's UFA next summer, Sens probably squander this asset anyhow. Also Chlapik could pair up with Jasek, nicely for Comets. Sens are good for young C's, thus can afford him.

 

[shiznak]

Once they trade Karlsson, I highly doubt they'll trade Ryan. Ottawa needs to stay above the cap floor and if they trade both players, they'd be 11M below the floor.

[wildcam]

22 hours ago, aGENT said:

Now before everyone dons their flame throwers, I realize this is a bit of a long shot as I doubt they'd give up their shiny new toy... but they also REALLY want to get rid of Ryan's contract (and nobody's taking on that for a bag of pucks).

 

To OTT - Gagner (send a bit of short term cap back and good veteran presence), Goldobin (they get a decent top 6 prospect) and likely a 3rd piece ('B' prospect like Lockwood or a more fringe guy like Boucher/Gaunce/Leipsic  etc).

 

To VAN - Ryan (perhaps with $1.25m +/- retained) and (the long shot)... Brady Tkachuck.

 

Again, like I said, likely a long shot with their shiny new toy but it would get most of Ryan's 4 more years $7.25m off their books which should equal a good chunk of value (and likely allow them a better return on a Karlsson trade as well). And they get some (mostly young) forward depth back.

 

Clears some of our log jam of more middling guys, gives us a veteran guy who could probably play 1/2 decent (if vastly over paid) top 6 wing with some size to help shelter our smaller, skilled kids and a replacement for him likely ready in a year'ish that slides Ryan down. Look to compliance buyout Ryan after the next CBA. Until then, like the guys we just signed, his cap isn't really an issue for us and he replaces Gagner's vet spot.

lol lol

Now that is a long shot that will never happen...never never will Ottawa trade there #4 O/A Tkachuk 6'3, 205.

Ottawa  rebuilding really need a forward like Tkachuk..

Another point is bottom of cap floor is 59 million..If Ottawa trade Karlsson and Ryan they will be well below

cap floor..

[aGENT]

6 hours ago, shiznak said:

Once they trade Karlsson, I highly doubt they'll trade Ryan. Ottawa needs to stay above the cap floor and if they trade both players, they'd be 11M below the floor.

 

5 minutes ago, wildcam said:

lol lol

Now that is a long shot that will never happen...never never will Ottawa trade there #4 O/A Tkachuk 6'3, 205.

Ottawa  rebuilding really need a forward like Tkachuk..

Another point is bottom of cap floor is 59 million..If Ottawa trade Karlsson and Ryan they will be well below

cap floor..

We'd be sending salary back (as would presumably a Karlsson trade).

[Alflives]

Colorado is pretty much guaranteed a top five pick in 2019 thanks to the Sens.  

[JM_]

45 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Colorado is pretty much guaranteed a top five pick in 2019 thanks to the Sens.  

I'm still shaking my head that they 1. passed on potential elite D this year, and 2. passed on a potential 1st oa pick in 2019, for Brady Tkachuk. 

[aGENT]

On 2018-07-05 at 9:45 AM, Jimmy McGill said:

I'm still shaking my head that they 1. passed on potential elite D this year, and 2. passed on a potential 1st oa pick in 2019, for Brady Tkachuk. 

I really think it's as simple as this:

 

On 2018-07-04 at 11:11 AM, aGENT said:

Bird in the hand.

 

Either way you're likely giving up a ~ top 5 pick. At least taking the earlier guy, he's likely ready sooner and has more player and/or trade value, sooner.

 

Besides, there's also the (small) chance they actually finish slightly higher next year once they clear out all the drama etc. If they finish 6th from last and drop a spot from the lottery and pick 7th are they any worse off?

 

People trying to sell this as 'they valued Tkachuck more than a chance at Hughes!?' are off the mark IMO. I'm sure they certainly like Tkachuck the player but I doubt they view it in remotely that light.

[JM_]

12 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I really think it's as simple as this:

 

 

Either way you're likely giving up a ~ top 5 pick. At least taking the earlier guy, he's likely ready sooner and has more player and/or trade value, sooner.

 

Besides, there's also the (small) chance they actually finish slightly higher next year once they clear out all the drama etc. If they finish 6th from last and drop a spot from the lottery and pick 7th are they any worse off?

 

People trying to sell this as 'they valued Tkachuck more than a chance at Hughes!?' are off the mark IMO. I'm sure they certainly like Tkachuck the player but I doubt they view it in remotely that light.

If there's a chance they finish with a better pick then its even worse. But there's far more chance they gave up a top 4 pick, particularly when Duchene tells them he's not interested in re-upping. 

 

Of course they valued Tkachuk more than Hughes, they could have had either of them. I don't see how the move can be viewed as anything but a mistake. 

[aGENT]

4 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

If there's a chance they finish with a better pick then its even worse. But there's far more chance they gave up a top 4 pick, particularly when Duchene tells them he's not interested in re-upping. 

 

Of course they valued Tkachuk more than Hughes, they could have had either of them. I don't see how the move can be viewed as anything but a mistake. 

Sorry I meant 2019 Hughes.

[JM_]

1 minute ago, aGENT said:

Sorry I meant 2019 Hughes.

either one! 

 

you just know its going to turn into the 1st oa for Colorado. 

[Monty]

On 2018-07-04 at 11:25 AM, aGENT said:

To OTT - Gagner (send a bit of short term cap back and good veteran presence), Goldobin (they get a decent top 6 prospect) and likely a 3rd piece ('B' prospect like Lockwood or a more fringe guy like Boucher/Gaunce/Leipsic  etc).

 

To VAN - Ryan (perhaps with $1.25m +/- retained) and (the long shot)... Brady Tkachuck.

I’d think the main problem with this is the Sens keeping their pick this year and drafting Tkachuk. This trade would essentially mean they gave up both their 2018 and 2019 pick.

[aGENT]

Just now, Jimmy McGill said:

either one! 

 

you just know its going to turn into the 1st oa for Colorado. 

No. I don't.

 

I mean I get it, it would certainly be comically fitting but there's a VERY good chance that's not remotely the case.

 

Bird in the hand.

[aGENT]

Just now, Monty said:

I’d think the main problem with this is the Sens keeping their pick this year and drafting Tkachuk. This trade would essentially mean they gave up both their 2018 and 2019 pick.

That's actually a fair point. 

 

If the Karlsson to TBL or DAL goes through, I'd not mind taking on some of THAT return for taking on Ryan as an alternative either. One way or another, they're going to have to pay up to move that contract.

[JM_]

Just now, aGENT said:

No. I don't.

 

I mean I get it, it would certainly be comically fitting but there's a VERY good chance that's not remotely the case.

 

Bird in the hand.

Yeah but they took the wrong bird! 

 

Bird took a poop in the hand. It wouldn't surprise me if Brady never played a game for OTT. 

[aGENT]

Just now, Jimmy McGill said:

Yeah but they took the wrong bird! 

 

Bird took a poop in the hand. It wouldn't surprise me if Brady never played a game for OTT. 

All the more reason to trade him to us 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

 

45 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Besides, there's also the (small) chance they actually finish slightly higher next year once they clear out all the drama etc. If they finish 6th from last and drop a spot from the lottery and pick 7th are they any worse off?

It’s a far greater chance that they are substantially worse this year than last year.  When you consider that they had to have a fairly good idea that Karlsson wouldn’t be back. That Hoffman was going to be moved, add in the fact that they just moved Brassard and Dion at the TD last season, it would be a pure stroke of luck that they would be better next year. The rookies could come in a light it up, but I wouldn’t count on it. 

 

Tkachuk is one heck of a hockey player and they didn’t want to pass on him, but he in terms of value, he’s a winger, next year is center heavy and even if they don’t land Jack Hughes (which I have to say they have best odds at), they are still going to land a player with roughly as much value if not more than Brady.  It’s pure stupidity that they kept the pick this year. 

 

The big problem is that the owner is focused on $$ and will sacrifice the smart moves in order to save a few bucks.  In eugene melnyk’s perfect world, the sens next year are a cap floor team, and they provide a quality product in which they can sell to the fans, so he doesn’t lose out on ticket sales.  He needs to save as much money as possible so he can afford relocate the building.  Achieving that goal is a whole lot different than to focus on building a successful team. 

 

Now they are looking at lower offers for Erik (and the longer they delay the less they will end up with), a RFA in Stone who’s going to get his one year to allow him to reach UFA status, in which at the same time Duchene will reach UFA status.  Add in on top of that there #1 goalie is asking for a trade.  It’s a pure tire fire that could have been not necessarily avoided but planned much differently in which the future looked a whole lot brighter.  And this isn’t hindsight, people were calling for this long ago

 

[aGENT]

18 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

 

It’s a far greater chance that they are substantially worse this year than last year.  When you consider that they had to have a fairly good idea that Karlsson wouldn’t be back. That Hoffman was going to be moved, add in the fact that they just moved Brassard and Dion at the TD last season, it would be a pure stroke of luck that they would be better next year. The rookies could come in a light it up, but I wouldn’t count on it. 

 

Tkachuk is one heck of a hockey player and they didn’t want to pass on him, but he in terms of value, he’s a winger, next year is center heavy and even if they don’t land Jack Hughes (which I have to say they have best odds at), they are still going to land a player with roughly as much value if not more than Brady.  It’s pure stupidity that they kept the pick this year. 

 

The big problem is that the owner is focused on $$ and will sacrifice the smart moves in order to save a few bucks.  In eugene melnyk’s perfect world, the sens next year are a cap floor team, and they provide a quality product in which they can sell to the fans, so he doesn’t lose out on ticket sales.  He needs to save as much money as possible so he can afford relocate the building.  Achieving that goal is a whole lot different than to focus on building a successful team. 

 

Now they are looking at lower offers for Erik (and the longer they delay the less they will end up with), a RFA in Stone who’s going to get his one year to allow him to reach UFA status, in which at the same time Duchene will reach UFA status.  Add in on top of that there #1 goalie is asking for a trade.  It’s a pure tire fire that could have been not necessarily avoided but planned much differently in which the future looked a whole lot brighter.  And this isn’t hindsight, people were calling for this long ago

 

Don't disagree with any of that (particularly the commentary on ownership/management). But they could easily finish last (and that's not a given) and still draft 4th OA. Lottery is gonna lottery.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

34 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Don't disagree with any of that (particularly the commentary on ownership/management). But they could easily finish last (and that's not a given) and still draft 4th OA. Lottery is gonna lottery.

Yeah but they could be, but that means there looking at newhook, dach, or (my Ufa bisons rep) krebs.

kokka. So it’s still a win over brady. 

 

 

the point is if you look at this years draft. 4-11 was all very fluent, brady wasn’t a lock at 4. Nothing was set in stone outside of the top 2. Next years draft is looking very much like that with one player running away with things. The player they get 2-8 is going to be very similarly valued to brady was this year but with more centers in the mix the will likely be worth even more value than the player they ended up with this year. Add on the risk of missing Hughes and it’s a bad move. 

 

If i handed you $5 and said you either keep this $5 or you can invest it, where next year it will be at least worth still $5 (knowing they will still be a bottom 10 team) but the investment comes with a 8-20% chance at taking home $100. It would seem like a no brainer to most. But to Eugene he saw a player that could step in next season and potentially sell hope/tickets for his bottom line. That’s the only explanation really.