Charges Laid In Tragic Humboldt Crash

[chon derry]

2 hours ago, JV77 said:

Im following the story on news outlets and it was mentioned that it isn't even certain the stop sign was ran.

 

It's all assumptions right now based on where the 2 vehicles ended up.  Nobody knows exactly what happend yet and this will try to be determined in a trial.  

 

People need to let it play it out and stop acting like they know what exactly happened and who is to blame when police and courts don't even know yet.

so your saying that he may have stopped and then got up to speed  from stop sign to stop sign,  within the intersection, fast enough to have tore a tandem bus into pieces , and leave tire tread marks from the truck slidding on its side while in the midst of flipping on its side? LMAO.  if your convinced of that you should become a defence  lawyer specializing in serial killers caught in the act with gun in hand.. 

[Tre Mac]

12 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

The claim also seeks a court declaration that all coach buses carrying sports teams in Saskatchewan be equipped with shoulder harnesses, and other safety devices, namely early warning devices.

 

I have mixed emotions about this.  On the one hand, the family PUT their child on the bus and no one forced them to do so.  If they felt it was unsafe, then decisions had to be made.  To now have an issue with it sort of is a matter of shared responsibility to me.  We makes choices and decisions and so to "go back" to address this is a bit of a reach for me.

However, it is seemingly about making things safer for future passengers, so I'm all in.   Ridiculous that vehicles transporting our kids do not have seatbelts.

 

I thought I'd read something about the roof too...will have to see if I can find it.

Why I have a problem with suing the bus manufacturer is that bus got obliterated and I don't think seatbelts would've done anything.  Obviously we all have to wait to see what actually happened but from my understanding the truck ran a stop sign and plowed into the bus, and there isn't a vehicle on the road that could withstand that much impact.

[-DLC-]

3 hours ago, JV77 said:

Im following the story on news outlets and it was mentioned that it isn't even certain the stop sign was ran.

 

It's all assumptions right now based on where the 2 vehicles ended up.  Nobody knows exactly what happend yet and this will try to be determined in a trial.  

 

People need to let it play it out and stop acting like they know what exactly happened and who is to blame when police and courts don't even know yet.

We ARE letting it play out and discussing it during that process, which is fine.  We aren't acting like we know exactly what happened.  Who is to blame is fairly obvious when two vehicles collide in an intersection, one with the right of way and the other with a stop sign and flashing red.  An impact that pushed them through to the other side and blew a bus apart.  A truck that had stopped, as it should have, then started rolling through probably wouldn't have carried both vehicles in the direction they traveled after impact.  I'm just figuring out based on what I've seen/learned.  I'm not the judge and jury, so need to worry.  An investigation that looked at various things has determined it was a criminal act and charges laid.    Sure, there is a process and he could be "innocent".  I'm just not sure how that can be...given all the circumstances.  So if you want to dispute that, that's fine (too).  We "assume" many things on discussion boards.  How prospects will work out, trade scenarios, etc.  So this is just what we do here...we discuss things, many of which are based on assumptions or information that we've gathered.   We're not part of a jury here, so it's ok to do. 

 

Initially I was of the same mind...we don't know what happened here or who's to blame.  Charges hint that there may be someone at fault so now it's up to them to prove otherwise.  People will discuss this...it's part of the healing process.  For we all are impacted by carnage on the road when a bunch of young lives are snuffed out in the blink of an eye.  It deserves discussion.

[JV77]

1 hour ago, chon derry said:

so your saying that he may have stopped and then got up to speed  from stop sign to stop sign,  within the intersection, fast enough to have tore a tandem bus into pieces , and leave tire tread marks from the truck slidding on its side while in the midst of flipping on its side? LMAO.  if your convinced of that you should become a defence  lawyer specializing in serial killers caught in the act with gun in hand.. 

I'm saying I dont know what happened and neither does anyone yet. 

 

To me there is a lot of grey and I can see where the truck driver gets some fault but not entirely.  I could potentailly see some even put on the bus driver, and other factors such as visability.

 

We will see.

[riffraff]

7 minutes ago, JV77 said:

I'm saying I dont know what happened and neither does anyone yet. 

 

To me there is a lot of grey and I can see where the truck driver gets some fault but not entirely.  I could potentailly see some even put on the bus driver, and other factors such as visability.

 

We will see.

I’m sorry but this is ridiculous 

[chon derry]

29 minutes ago, JV77 said:

I'm saying I dont know what happened and neither does anyone yet. 

 

To me there is a lot of grey and I can see where the truck driver gets some fault but not entirely.  I could potentailly see some even put on the bus driver, and other factors such as visability.

 

We will see.

glen doerkson a very experienced and highly respected for his experience as a bus driver negotiated this intersection ,NOT having to put any thought into him NOT HAVING the right way, why  would he have to?,  TO BE SURE HE WOULD HAVE NEGOTIATED THE INTERSECTION WITH THE UTMOST CAUTION HAD KNOWN THERE WAS A LOUSEY DRIVER RUNNING AMUCK ,BLASTING THRU INTERSECTIONS AT FULL SPEED,..........................NOW YOUR JUST GETTING RIDICULOUS. 

[DonLever]

2 hours ago, Tre Mac said:

I am going to get a lot of hate for this but I find it egregious that a family is filing a lawsuit against the maker of the bus.  Millions of dollars were raised for these families worldwide to help them cope and cover the costs of future earnings, why put the blame on the bus manufacturer? 

It is typical in these incidents that a wide net is used to cover all possible outcomes.  It may come out later that the bus had some mechanical issue that may have contributed to the accident.  In other words, the lawyers want all bases covered.

 

For sure the driver will be sued civilly even if he is found not guilty.  As well the tracking company too.

It is possible that even the government can be sued.  Like not clearing the intersection of snow and ice or the signage was inadequate.   Anything is possible in lawsuits.

[JV77]

27 minutes ago, riffraff said:

I’m sorry but this is ridiculous 

It may be I wouldn't be surprised if something like this comes up.  Because no ones what exactly has happened.

 

Lets see what happens.

[Gurn]

2 hours ago, Squamfan said:

what pisses me about more was that the doctor cleared him to play and he was offered multiple contracts but he declined knowing he would make less money. 

Do you have a link to a story saying this? Or even a link to story about some one who thinks this?

[Mike Vanderhoek]

22 hours ago, RonMexico said:

Russell and Raelene Herold of Montmartre, Sask., filed the statement of claim Monday in Regina court on behalf of their 16-year-old son, Adam Herold, the youngest player on the team and one of its rising stars.

"Adam would have played in the National Hockey League," claims the lawsuit. "Adam had the potential to earn approximately $20-$30 million over the course of his NHL hockey career."

The statement of claim also says he would have taken over the family's farm.

 

 

 

How can that be proven?? He also had the potential to never make it or get injured too. I know it's well within his parent's legal ability to file such a law suit but asking to cover potential future earnings for a job that he never even had seems somewhat unnecessary.

This is where things get disgusting, the money money money aspect of things. Yes it is within someone's right and being advised by legal counsel will steer you this way. But this in my opinion is insulting to those lost, to those who donated and stood behind the team and well the legal process.

[Squamfan]

37 minutes ago, gurn said:

Do you have a link to a story saying this? Or even a link to story about some one who thinks this?

just ask brain Burke when he was member of the ducks

[DonLever]

5 hours ago, JV77 said:

Im following the story on news outlets and it was mentioned that it isn't even certain the stop sign was ran.

 

It's all assumptions right now based on where the 2 vehicles ended up.  Nobody knows exactly what happend yet and this will try to be determined in a trial.  

 

People need to let it play it out and stop acting like they know what exactly happened and who is to blame when police and courts don't even know yet.

Let's use some logic here.

 

1.  The accident occurred in an intersection.   That is 100% indisputable.

2.  The bus had the right of way.  The truck had a stop sign in front of him.   That is also 100% indisputable.

 

So how did the truck hit the bus in the intersection without running the stop sign?

 

The trial will not be based on whether he ran the stop sign.    There will be little argument that he did.

 

The argument during the trial will be intent.   Did the trunk driver intend to run the stop sign?  Did he had some underlying medical issues?  Was some mechanical problem like failing brakes a cause.   Or some other contributing factor.

 

 

[Gurn]

1 hour ago, Squamfan said:

just ask brain Burke when he was member of the ducks

So no, then?

[otherwise]

On 7/10/2018 at 1:39 PM, chon derry said:

looking at a map ther's a good possibility that he had already been through this same intersection , may or may not have seen any traffic the first time , who knows ? on his way to carrot river to pick up his load he should have been familiar with this 2 way stop intersection with blinking amber lite, did he down play the significance  of it because he didn't see traffic the first time thru?

I agree with the first part, but it's straight and flat for miles, you can see, this isn't a quick look down at his phone and miss the stop sign. Plus you can tell when you're coming up to a highway like this that it is in fact a highway and you will have to stop because you can see the cars moving on the horizon and they keep getting closer. To me this is he was half (totally?) asleep at the wheel type thing.   Like you've said this was a loaded B train, it's going to take time to stop.

On 7/10/2018 at 2:28 PM, debluvscanucks said:

Exactly....this is more than just the driver being examined here.  When these "accidents" happen, it's normal and expected that a thorough review be done.  When charges are laid, even moreso.   If he is found "innocent" I'm sure there is a can of worms that has been opened despite it all.   Two truck family operations being run out of a backyard with name changes when they come under heat.  This driver a family "friend"....were there steps being ignored here?  It is a worthwhile discussion and, in the event, there was NO wrongdoing, it's still a reminder to everyone of the importance of not taking shortcuts.   A moment can change lives forever.

This trucking company will likely be more closely looked at too, or should be:

 

Quote

A trucking business “connected” to Adesh Deol Trucking Ltd., the company involved in the Humboldt Broncos crash that killed 16 people, has opened at the same Calgary address as Adesh Deol, Global News has learned.

Alberta’s Ministry of Transportation confirmed that while Adesh Deol Trucking remains suspended, one of the drivers connected to the Calgary-based business is working with the new company.

“Alberta Transportation is aware that a numbered company has been registered that is connected to the company involved with the Humboldt incident,” said John Archer, a spokesperson for Transportation Minister Brian Mason. “It is our understanding that one of the trucks and one of the drivers listed from Adesh Deol Trucking Ltd. are operating with this numbered company.”

 

 

that's ridiculous; run to a numbered company to hide from this mess.

On 7/10/2018 at 5:24 PM, gurn said:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=196295

 

  defense,shoots left played 1 game in regular season and 8 in Humboldt's playoff for 2017/18  1 assist in the 8 playoff games, and none in the reg season.

Played 3 games with Prince Albert Raiders in 17/18, no points, minus 1.

 

elite prospects has more data

https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/351958/adam-herold

 

2014-15	Balgonie Prairie Storm Bantam AA	SBAAHL	31	4	10	14	28		|	Playoffs	8	3	1	4	10
2015-16	Prairie Storm Bantam AA	SBAAHL	29	11	18	29	77		|	Playoffs	4	1	0	1	12
	Moose Jaw Generals	SMHL	1	0	0	0	0		|
2016-17	Regina Pat Canadians Midget AAA	SMHL	43	2	9	11	26		|	Playoffs	11	1	4	5	8
	Prince Albert Raiders	WHL	1	0	0	0	0	0	|
2017-18	Regina Pat Canadians Midget AAA “C”	SMHL	43	6	24	30	28		|	Playoffs	7	1	5	6	6
	Humboldt Broncos	SJHL	1	0	0	0	0		|	Playoffs	8	0	1	1	0
	Prince Albert Raiders	WHL	3	0	0	0	0	-1	|

I knew some guys who played full seasons in the WHL in high school and still didn't make it.

This will be tough to prove.

 

4 hours ago, debluvscanucks said:

The claim also seeks a court declaration that all coach buses carrying sports teams in Saskatchewan be equipped with shoulder harnesses, and other safety devices, namely early warning devices.

 

I have mixed emotions about this.  On the one hand, the family PUT their child on the bus and no one forced them to do so.  If they felt it was unsafe, then decisions had to be made.  To now have an issue with it sort of is a matter of shared responsibility to me.  We makes choices and decisions and so to "go back" to address this is a bit of a reach for me.

However, it is seemingly about making things safer for future passengers, so I'm all in.   Ridiculous that vehicles transporting our kids do not have seatbelts.

 

I thought I'd read something about the roof too...will have to see if I can find it.

I can get behind changing the rules so that there are seat belts on all buses, whether or not they are used would be the next thing.

 

4 hours ago, Tre Mac said:

Why I have a problem with suing the bus manufacturer is that bus got obliterated and I don't think seatbelts would've done anything.  Obviously we all have to wait to see what actually happened but from my understanding the truck ran a stop sign and plowed into the bus, and there isn't a vehicle on the road that could withstand that much impact.

I think that some of the spinal cord injuries were from players being ejected from the bus. It may have prevented some of those injuries, though they may have been injured in other ways if they were buckled up.

[JV77]

2 hours ago, DonLever said:

Let's use some logic here.

 

1.  The accident occurred in an intersection.   That is 100% indisputable.

2.  The bus had the right of way.  The truck had a stop sign in front of him.   That is also 100% indisputable.

 

So how did the truck hit the bus in the intersection without running the stop sign?

 

The trial will not be based on whether he ran the stop sign.    There will be little argument that he did.

 

The argument during the trial will be intent.   Did the trunk driver intend to run the stop sign?  Did he had some underlying medical issues?  Was some mechanical problem like failing brakes a cause.   Or some other contributing factor.

 

 

I just watched the news and they basically said it is not known at this point if it was ran....Not making it up.

 

Apparently you and many others have the proven facts already but investigators and courts don't.  Interesting. 

[riffraff]

3 hours ago, JV77 said:

It may be I wouldn't be surprised if something like this comes up.  Because no ones what exactly has happened.

 

Lets see what happens.

Like Chon Derry said: you are suggesting that the truck driver was able to gain enough speed through an intersection after stopping, to obliterate a passenger bus.

 

either the semi is kitted with NoS and suddenly the laws of physics did not apply at that moment or your suggestion is impossible.

 

there aren’t even any skid marks.

 

but you’re right. There is a due process and I’m pretty sure that once the judicial system has run its course we will see what most people already know and accept.

[Gurn]

3 hours ago, Squamfan said:

just ask brain Burke when he was member of the ducks

 

2 hours ago, gurn said:

 

You were right, I'd forgotten about Burke.

[-DLC-]

4 hours ago, JV77 said:

I just watched the news and they basically said it is not known at this point if it was ran....Not making it up.

 

Apparently you and many others have the proven facts already but investigators and courts don't.  Interesting. 

Quote

The bus had the right of way. There is a flashing stop sign for drivers on Highway 335 at Highway 35 between Nipawin and Tisdale. The RCMP said the semi was in the intersection when the vehicles collided.

So how would that happen?  Logic and common sense tell us one of two ways:

 

1.  He didn't stop

2.  He stopped and then proceeded through, but shouldn't have because the oncoming bus had the right of way

With the force and impact of the collision and where they ended up, I'd say it would have to be the first one.   I'm no expert though.  However, experts have come to the conclusion that something criminal happened, so I trust in that.

[Toews]

22 hours ago, riffraff said:

Kinda vague here imo.

 

what is excessive to you, i, a judge, and the mother of a dead son could be entirely different most likely.

True, but in the context of that comment I was referring to Alf's absurd 'lock him away for the rest of his life'. I think we both agree that is excessive.

Quote

what strong message is available?

 

to me scapegoating is not a word that applies to someone who has killed 16 people through negligent practice.

14 years is an appropriately strong message I would say.

 

Scapegoating can apply to anyone. If you throw the book at one person while letting other offenders off the hook, it doesn't benefit the system in any way. As I believe @mpt pointed out, there are many who did not do any jail time despite getting people killed due to their negligence. 

Quote

in your description of the event, if that is what happened, it’s as near straight up murder as I can see.  Sure he didn’t know the people in the bus. Sure there was no direct personal intent. But in your scenario the truck driver displayed blatant disregard for human life.  That is an example of someone who values an invoice over human life.

I can't agree with this. For it to be murder as defined by law there has to be intent which in this case appears to be absent. 

 

I am not sure I can speak to how the driver values life because I don't think he started driving a truck with the intention of killing or injuring people. It does show a blatant disregard for the laws and responsibilities of being a driver on the road.

Quote

 

honestly I don’t see how this man can not go to jail for a significant amount of time.  I’m not suggesting a life sentence but very lengthy.

 

that is a message.  

I agree wholeheartedly.

Quote

A tragedy like this has to set a precedent.  Scapegoat may be the word you choose.  But frankly Mr. Sidhu should feel fortunate to see the outside world at this point.  He is alive after all.  And anyone, in this country, who is involved in a like accident in the future should never come out.

I understand the sentiment but I can't agree with this. People are capable of making some awful awful decisions which has the ability to impact many people negatively. It doesn't mean that they are devoid of humanity. If Mr. Sidhu is repentant and pays his penance to society then I cannot hold this against him for the rest of his life. 

[DonLever]

8 hours ago, JV77 said:

I just watched the news and they basically said it is not known at this point if it was ran....Not making it up.

 

Apparently you and many others have the proven facts already but investigators and courts don't.  Interesting. 

I watched every news outlet and every one of them said the collision occurred in an intersection.   I don't understand what your argument is.   Do you disagree with the fact the accident occurred in an intersection?

 

We know WHAT happened: there was a collision between a bus and a truck in an intersection causing 16 people to die.  The trial will establish WHY the accident happened.

 

The police and the investigators do know what happened, otherwise they have would not arrested and charged the driver.   Now it is the prosecution who must make their case in the trial.   It is possible the case my not even go to trial if the defence make a deal with the prosecution and the driver pleads guilty to lesser charges.