JV77 Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 12 minutes ago, DonLever said: I watched every news outlet and every one of them said the collision occurred in an intersection. I don't understand what your argument is. Do you disagree with the fact the accident occurred in an intersection? We know WHAT happened. The trial will establish WHY the accident happened. It's not my argument...I simply heard them say they don't know for sure if the stop sign was ran through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riffraff Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 30 minutes ago, DonLever said: I watched every news outlet and every one of them said the collision occurred in an intersection. I don't understand what your argument is. Do you disagree with the fact the accident occurred in an intersection? We know WHAT happened. The trial will establish WHY the accident happened. In the bottom picture there is nothing that resembles skid marks until the lane the bus would have been in after the intersection. and those marks could be many things other than burnt rubber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chon derry Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 8 hours ago, riffraff said: In the bottom picture there is nothing that resembles skid marks until the lane the bus would have been in after the intersection. and those marks could be many things other than burnt rubber. there is one skid mark from the one of the front tires as the truck careened over on its side , the side wall is what was dragging Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riffraff Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 40 minutes ago, chon derry said: there is one skid mark from the one of the front tires as the truck careened over on its side , the side wall is what was dragging Thanks. Nice find. The skid mark is the first thing I looked for like most I’m sure. What I find really interesting, a telltale, and something I hadn’t considered, is the shadow of the stop sign relative to the point of impact and the skid mark (tire drag mark). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chon derry Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 15 minutes ago, riffraff said: Thanks. Nice find. The skid mark is the first thing I looked for like most I’m sure. What I find really interesting, a telltale, and something I hadn’t considered, is the shadow of the stop sign relative to the point of impact and the skid mark (tire drag mark). hard to believe anybody could possibly think the truck stopped,at the stop sign Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester13 Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 On 7/6/2018 at 9:06 PM, Kanukfanatic said: Vince Li cut an innocent persons head off and ate it. I could not care less why. I DO NOT CARE if he claims its a mental health issue. He murdered a person as violently as any person could destroying the his dead victim's family. He is a deviant and should be punished imo. People like you have destroyed this country by letting violent acts go unpunished. Disgusting. I won't respond to you again in this Humboldt thread...and hope never to meet a person like you in life. I hardly think Canada has been destroyed by our legal system; if you truly think this, I would love to hear what you mean by "destroyed". I know you don't agree with it, and you have your strong opinions, but I think it might serve you well to put your emotional opinions aside and try to understand the legal system intellectually to possibly see why the system is the way that it is, because there are good reasons why our system is the way that it is and agreed upon by professionals and turned into law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riffraff Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 17 minutes ago, Jester13 said: I hardly think Canada has been destroyed by our legal system; if you truly think this, I would love to hear what you mean by "destroyed". I know you don't agree with it, and you have your strong opinions, but I think it might serve you well to put your emotional opinions aside and try to understand the legal system intellectually to possibly see why the system is the way that it is, because there are good reasons why our system is the way that it is and agreed upon by professionals and turned into law. Many people are dissatisfied with the Canadian judicial system including law enforcement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester13 Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 1 minute ago, riffraff said: Many people are dissatisfied with the Canadian judicial system includbig law enforcement I'm not doubting that many people are dissatisfied (I don't believe it's perfect, either), but my point is that cases such as Li's have the outcomes they do for good reasons that are not based off emotions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riffraff Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 7 minutes ago, Jester13 said: I'm not doubting that many people are dissatisfied (I don't believe it's perfect, either), but my point is that cases such as Li's have the outcomes they do for good reasons that are not based off emotions. Good reasons for some. But in the case of li the only good was for him. the family would have a different take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpt Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 I was talking to a friend of mine who lived near that highway, supposedly there are big bright flashing signs well before the intersection indicating that a stop sign is ahead and that the stop sign also has flashing lights around the sign. They’ve installed these because frequently trucks run the stop signs if they see no one coming so they don’t have to stop with a full load and try to accelerate to cross the highway obviously having to potentially wait a long time for enough break in traffic to get through the intersection. Supposedly this have been a real problem of truckers running stop signs so they can get through the intersection quicker. I wouldn’t be suprised if he ran it on purpose as its common practice on that highway. If so, he should be punished and I’ll completely change my prior opinion discussed earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 7 hours ago, mpt said: I was talking to a friend of mine who lived near that highway, supposedly there are big bright flashing signs well before the intersection indicating that a stop sign is ahead and that the stop sign also has flashing lights around the sign. They’ve installed these because frequently trucks run the stop signs if they see no one coming so they don’t have to stop with a full load and try to accelerate to cross the highway obviously having to potentially wait a long time for enough break in traffic to get through the intersection. Supposedly this have been a real problem of truckers running stop signs so they can get through the intersection quicker. I wouldn’t be suprised if he ran it on purpose as its common practice on that highway. If so, he should be punished and I’ll completely change my prior opinion discussed earlier. I've been saying this since the incident. There are a lot of roads in Saskatchewan and on many of them, you can drive for quite a while without seeing another vehicle. It doesn't surprise me at all to hear that truckers ignoring stop signs in the interest of saving time and fuel is a relatively common practice. The trucker, coming from the East, had likely seen little, if any traffic since passing through the town of Hudson Bay (population 1500) and made the tragic assumption that the intersection would be clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Interesting to see the graphic from Global indicating that the bus hit the semi, and not the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted July 25, 2018 Author Share Posted July 25, 2018 1 hour ago, gurn said: Interesting to see the graphic from Global indicating that the bus hit the semi, and not the other way around. Even so...the semi would have to have been in the intersection, but did NOT have the right of way. If he HAD stopped, he shouldn't have proceeded with the bus coming. If he hadn't, he'd be hit as well. The stop sign is the key here...he was supposed to stop and make sure it was clear before proceeding. To collide in the intersection would mean he'd have gone through the stop sign at that point..either after stopping or without.... The bus had the right of way, that's what matters most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 3 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said: Even so...the semi would have to have been in the intersection, but did NOT have the right of way. If he HAD stopped, he shouldn't have proceeded with the bus coming. If he hadn't, he'd be hit as well. The stop sign is the key here...he was supposed to stop and make sure it was clear before proceeding. To collide in the intersection would mean he'd have gone through the stop sign at that point..either after stopping or without.... The bus had the right of way, that's what matters most. How fast was the bus going? Semi driver could have seen the bus way out there and misjudged the speed of the bus. Many variables, let the court and possible jury figure it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted July 25, 2018 Author Share Posted July 25, 2018 Quote Semi driver could have seen the bus way out there and misjudged the speed of the bus. Would be his fault. He had the responsibility to wait until it was clear....if he saw the bus, he had no business going until it had passed. That's a double rig he's driving and, if he HAD stopped, would take time to get through the intersection. The bus has the right of way....even if speeding, it's up to the semi to wait until it was safe to proceed. You don't just start to roll through despite it all. From the handbook in Saskatchewan: At two-way stops, vehicles must remain stopped until all cross traffic passes. In any case, if you are at a stop sign you must yield to vehicles and pedestrians and may not proceed until it is safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonMexico Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 3 minutes ago, gurn said: How fast was the bus going? Semi driver could have seen the bus way out there and misjudged the speed of the bus. Many variables, let the court and possible jury figure it out. I agree. It doesn't seem as cut and dry as everyone thinks it should be. Though it's hard to believe that the bus driver or anyone on the bus couldn't see a truck and trailer half way into the intersection in front of them until the last second. As soon as the case is over we will get all the details of the accident investigation which will show us what they believe happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted July 25, 2018 Author Share Posted July 25, 2018 10 minutes ago, RonMexico said: I agree. It doesn't seem as cut and dry as everyone thinks it should be. Though it's hard to believe that the bus driver or anyone on the bus couldn't see a truck and trailer half way into the intersection in front of them until the last second. As soon as the case is over we will get all the details of the accident investigation which will show us what they believe happened. Those responsible for conducting lengthy and thorough investigations feel it was fairly cut and dry, which is why charges were laid. When the case is over, we will get those details but, until then he's been charged and that indicates he likely made a fatal error. Even if he gets off, it doesn't mean there isn't evidence to support that. It's just a discussion, but it serves as an important one. When you drive big rigs, it's important to be sure and take extra precautions. Buses full of kids, too. Even at the posted speed limit, if the semi driver SAW the bus, he had no business proceeding. If he didn't, that too is an error on his part as he needed to be sure. Waiting for the outcome is fine...but it's also about raising awareness and road safety....never a bad idea to share ideas about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 29 minutes ago, gurn said: How fast was the bus going? Semi driver could have seen the bus way out there and misjudged the speed of the bus. Many variables, let the court and possible jury figure it out. Unlikely. If you look at the graphic and photo posted by Don Lever and quoted above by riffraff, you can see a stand of trees along the side of the road to the truck driver's left on 335 and the bus driver's right on 35. Those trees would have prevented the two vehicles from seeing each other until it was too late. This is likely why there is a flashing red in addition to the stop sign at the intersection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonMexico Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 8 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said: When you drive big rigs, it's important to be sure and take extra precautions. Buses full of kids, too. Which is the biggest mystery to me. I hate making assumptions but if a bus, with the right of way, hits a tractor trailer that is already in the middle of the intersection it makes me wonder why the accident was so terrible. One would think the bus would have at least tried to slow down much earlier and the impact could have been less severe. As for the charges, police will admit they are often pressured to press charges when the case has a dramatic impact on the general public. Many people are outraged that a bunch of teenagers and chaperones died. The more terrible the event, the more pressure there is to make someone responsible. Imagine for a second that the lawyer for the truck driver was able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that his client wasn't solely responsible and that the bus driver is even partially responsible. The pitchforks would be out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 3 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said: Unlikely. If you look at the graphic and photo posted by Don Lever and quoted above by riffraff, you can see a stand of trees along the side of the road to the truck driver's left on 335 and the bus driver's right on 35. Those trees would have prevented the two vehicles from seeing each other until it was too late. This is likely why there is a flashing red in addition to the stop sign at the intersection. As I've said a few times, I'll wait for the courts to decide, before I say I know what happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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