Charges Laid In Tragic Humboldt Crash

[-DLC-]

7 minutes ago, RonMexico said:

 a bus, with the right of way, hits a tractor trailer that is already in the middle of the intersection it makes me wonder why the accident was so terrible. One would think the bus would have at least tried to slow down much earlier and the impact could have been less severe.

Thing is, the tractor trailer had no business BEING in the middle of the intersection.  Long stretch of straight highway and the bus is rolling along.  There's NO reason that truck should have been there as the bus arrived in the intersection.   I just can't imagine that the bus was travelling SO fast that it just arrived as the truck was already there.  The bus had a speed limit of 100 so the truck driver had no business going through until it was "clear".  It obviously wasn't and there was oncoming traffic to yield to.  The fact that he had a stop sign means the truck should have waited because the bus had the right to travel through...   Even if speeding, the truck driver miscalculated and there was traffic oncoming that he had to stop for.   Not try to sneak through before they got there.

[DonLever]

1 hour ago, gurn said:

As I've said a few times, I'll wait for the courts to decide, before I say I know what happened.

We know what happened.   There was a collision in an intersection between a bus and semi-trailer.

 

The only question is why.

[chon derry]

 AMEN TO THIS GUY!     the only people that DONT REALIZE the problem of this "type" of driver ………….cant say it without being called out for racism 

 

[Toews]

1 hour ago, chon derry said:

 AMEN TO THIS GUY!     the only people that DONT REALIZE the problem of this "type" of driver ………….cant say it without being called out for racism 

I get the message that there are lots of untrained drivers on the road, but how applicable is that in this situation where the driver deliberately ran a stop sign that was flashing red. I know zip about driving trucks but I know I would have stopped at that stop sign. Secondly there is no evidence that the driver's language skills made a lick of difference. Red means stop, its literally the universal human language. I don't know if this man realises it but he is making a case for the driver. I believe the authorities have correctly pinpointed who the true culprit is. There is a lot that can be said about all the other factors surrounding the incident including the steeply declined standards of the profession of commercial driving but it doesn't change the simple fact that all this would have been prevented if the driver had not decided to deliberately IGNORE a stop sign. 

[chon derry]

37 minutes ago, Toews said:

I get the message that there are lots of untrained drivers on the road, but how applicable is that in this situation where the driver deliberately ran a stop sign that was flashing red. I know zip about driving trucks but I know I would have stopped at that stop sign. Secondly there is no evidence that the driver's language skills made a lick of difference. Red means stop, its literally the universal human language. I don't know if this man realises it but he is making a case for the driver. I believe the authorities have correctly pinpointed who the true culprit is. There is a lot that can be said about all the other factors surrounding the incident including the steeply declined standards of the profession of commercial driving but it doesn't change the simple fact that all this would have been prevented if the driver had not decided to deliberately IGNORE a stop sign. 

i'm certainly not an expert on ethnicity , nor am I an expert on truck driving  but I did drive for 31 years of my 59 years and would still be ,for it not being arthritic reasons , however  there is some truth to certain nationalities being challenged more than others see (Richmond. B.C.)  eg; Vietnamese  are generally regarded as very hard working people pertaining strenuous labour.  I believe east Indians gravitate to  easier jobs (taxi ,dump trucks 7-11s )  taxi industry completely dominated . not all east Indians , given the farming sector, historically big in the forest industry (sawmills )  back to inexperienced drivers , you certainly cant single out one race over the other ,BUT the young inexperienced east indian commercial driver when out of their element does appear to be further out than other nationalitys , by a large margin.  the trucking industry has become very competitive (under cutting rate slash) guess who's behind that.....but thats another story.  as to the geography of this accident , complacency is a factor in my mind , long strait sections not that challenging , and yes latter model trucks have cruise control ,hi idle switch's. there is NO exemption for due care and attention no matter where your driving. now having said all this I have seen in my time on the road ,experienced drivers out of the prairies have difficulties driving on hills and corners in the winter months. bottom line its scary out there , this could have been so simple , sure it was late winter ,but bare and dry road conditions? I mean there is more challenging driving simulation video games out there!

[Toews]

21 minutes ago, chon derry said:

i'm certainly not an expert on ethnicity , nor am I an expert on truck driving  but I did drive for 31 years of my 59 years and would still be ,for it not being arthritic reasons , however  there is some truth to certain nationalities being challenged more than others see (Richmond. B.C.)  eg; Vietnamese  are generally regarded as very hard working people pertaining strenuous labour.  I believe east Indians gravitate to  easier jobs (taxi ,dump trucks 7-11s )  taxi industry completely dominated . not all east Indians , given the farming sector, historically big in the forest industry (sawmills )  back to inexperienced drivers , you certainly cant single out one race over the other ,BUT the young inexperienced east indian commercial driver when out of their element does appear to be further out than other nationalitys , by a large margin.  the trucking industry has become very competitive (under cutting rate slash) guess who's behind that.....but thats another story.  as to the geography of this accident , complacency is a factor in my mind , long strait sections not that challenging , and yes latter model trucks have cruise control ,hi idle switch's. there is NO exemption for due care and attention no matter where your driving. now having said all this I have seen in my time on the road ,experienced drivers out of the prairies have difficulties driving on hills and corners in the winter months. bottom line its scary out there , this could have been so simple , sure it was late winter ,but bare and dry road conditions? I mean there is more challenging driving simulation video games out there!

The root of the problem is that is far too easy to get behind a wheel. If you fail to enforce any standard this is what you end up with which is a bunch of untrained drivers on the roads. It accomplishes nothing to point fingers at people, at the end of the day everyone is just trying to make a buck to feed their families. It is up to the government to enforce stricter standards and regulate who can or cannot drive a commercial vehicle, it should not be left to the trucking companies. If someone is a licensed driver then that person should be able to competently handle the vehicle whose license they possess. 

[Gurn]

Iirc about 15 years ago, some driving license examiners in the southern lower mainland were found to be selling licenses to folk that otherwise had failed their road tests.

The government of the time did not call back all the drivers those examiners "passed" so as to ensure they were indeed fit to drive. Too expensive they said.

At the time,and to this day, I wonder how many people have died or been seriously hurt because of some bean counters.

[chon derry]

1 hour ago, gurn said:

Iirc about 15 years ago, some driving license examiners in the southern lower mainland were found to be selling licenses to folk that otherwise had failed their road tests.

The government of the time did not call back all the drivers those examiners "passed" so as to ensure they were indeed fit to drive. Too expensive they said.

At the time,and to this day, I wonder how many people have died or been seriously hurt because of some bean counters.

I remember it being a driver instructor being family or friends of. and licence duplicating as well.

[otherwise]

6 hours ago, Toews said:

The root of the problem is that is far too easy to get behind a wheel. If you fail to enforce any standard this is what you end up with which is a bunch of untrained drivers on the roads. It accomplishes nothing to point fingers at people, at the end of the day everyone is just trying to make a buck to feed their families. It is up to the government to enforce stricter standards and regulate who can or cannot drive a commercial vehicle, it should not be left to the trucking companies. If someone is a licensed driver then that person should be able to competently handle the vehicle whose license they possess. 

SGI announced not long after this crash that they were going to make it a bit more difficult to get a 1A license, but then there was some out cry from "farmers" and it got binned the same day- saying they needed to wait until the investigation/ case had wrapped up.

 

[chon derry]

On ‎2018‎-‎08‎-‎08 at 11:54 AM, Toews said:

The root of the problem is that is far too easy to get behind a wheel. If you fail to enforce any standard this is what you end up with which is a bunch of untrained drivers on the roads. It accomplishes nothing to point fingers at people, at the end of the day everyone is just trying to make a buck to feed their families. It is up to the government to enforce stricter standards and regulate who can or cannot drive a commercial vehicle, it should not be left to the trucking companies. If someone is a licensed driver then that person SHOULD be able to competently handle the vehicle whose license they possess. 

an accident was a fore gone conclusion , the only thing that went unknown was the location ,and the extent  of the inevitable carnage. pointing fingers … I can guarantee  you that experienced interprovincial driver's ARE pointing fingers , not wanting to be painted with the same brush. as well as adding input proactively, the good drivers have nothing to fear from C.V.S.E.  and I can guarantee again that theres an open line of communication between the  larger stakeholders ,more established companys and their drivers with ministry of transport and C.V.S.E. all POINTING FINGERS!   , most of the larger companies have to abide by provincially inforced fleet maintenance,and some run parallel to ISO standard.  the well established outfits with O/Os dictate that the O/OS have to buy new equipment every 2, 3 years. in your quote you mention "it should not be left to the trucking companies" THERE ARE NO COMPANIES issuing licences?. but there are companies and unions  that work closely with transport Canada. with industry wide safety initiatives and training .when they deregulated motor carrier licence to haul within BC , what used to cost a substantial amount  was dropped , meaning if you owned a truck you could haul anywhere ,..no expensive motor carrier licence required .there became to much competition , rates being undercut , wages dropping , calibre of driver dropping with the lower wage .safety went right out the window check out the vid at the 9 minute mark , I dealt with this exact same stupidity every winter for 22 years...I respect you for your informed posts on things, but you did admit to not knowing  about driving trucks , i'll add or the trucking industry.

 

[NucksPatsFan]

On 8/8/2018 at 11:07 AM, chon derry said:

 I believe east Indians gravitate to  easier jobs (taxi ,dump trucks 7-11s ) 

Taxi - work for themselves

Dump Trucks - own their own companies or are owner-operators, work for themselves

7-11's - Own them and work for themselves

 

I guess what you meant to say is, "I believe east indians gravitate to running their own businesses and providing jobs to others to help stimulate the economy instead of watch Maury and collect welfare." 

 

Asians (South, west, north, east) make up less than 3% of the welfare population as of 2015. Guess which ethnicity makes up nearly 40%. 

[Curmudgeon]

On 7/25/2018 at 1:43 PM, DonLever said:

We know what happened.   There was a collision in an intersection between a bus and semi-trailer.

 

The only question is why.

I haven't followed this whole thread so forgive me if this question has been answered:

 

Is nobody looking at the time of day, the direction of the truck and the position of the sun relative to the horizon? If, on Google Maps satellite mode, you locate yourself at the stop sign pointing west, it is very likely that the setting sun was shining directly in the truck driver's eyes. Not saying that excuses anything, but I think it is just one more unfortunate circumstance that contributed to the tragedy. I am a careful driver, but I have great difficulty when the sun is shining directly in my eyes in the late afternoon, despite using a visor and sunglasses. If someone suddenly appears moving across my path, I may not see them immediately, and as we all know, a split second delay in response time can result in horrific carnage.

 

So again I ask, has that question been raised by anybody and if so, what was the discussion around time of day and position of the sun relative to the road?

[chon derry]

3 hours ago, NucksPatsFan said:

Taxi - work for themselves

Dump Trucks - own their own companies or are owner-operators, work for themselves

7-11's - Own them and work for themselves

 

I guess what you meant to say is, "I believe east indians gravitate to running their own businesses and providing jobs to others to help stimulate the economy instead of watch Maury and collect welfare." 

 

Asians (South, west, north, east) make up less than 3% of the welfare population as of 2015. Guess which ethnicity makes up nearly 40%. 

well I guess if the owner of this truck was driving it rather than the employee that was ,and shouldn't have been . we wouldn't be having this conversation ….maybe. as for stimulating the economy , this is one little sector of it (trucking industry) of which in my own time involved in it 31 years I have seen the quality of so called drivers eroding,  , there is a problem and it needs to be cleaned up.

[NucksPatsFan]

2 hours ago, chon derry said:

well I guess if the owner of this truck was driving it rather than the employee that was ,and shouldn't have been . we wouldn't be having this conversation ….maybe. as for stimulating the economy , this is one little sector of it (trucking industry) of which in my own time involved in it 31 years I have seen the quality of so called drivers eroding,  , there is a problem and it needs to be cleaned up.

If the quality is eroding then do something to regulate it. Richmond has a poor reputation for bad Asian drivers and slowly but surely all the fake driver license rings have been getting busted. Either stimulate change and write to your local MPs or shut up and don't whine on a sports forum with your stereotypes. CDC sure as hell isn't going to change your beloved trucking industry. 

[Violator]

9 hours ago, chon derry said:

an accident was a fore gone conclusion , the only thing that went unknown was the location ,and the extent  of the inevitable carnage. pointing fingers … I can guarantee  you that experienced interprovincial driver's ARE pointing fingers , not wanting to be painted with the same brush. as well as adding input proactively, the good drivers have nothing to fear from C.V.S.E.  and I can guarantee again that theres an open line of communication between the  larger stakeholders ,more established companys and their drivers with ministry of transport and C.V.S.E. all POINTING FINGERS!   , most of the larger companies have to abide by provincially inforced fleet maintenance,and some run parallel to ISO standard.  the well established outfits with O/Os dictate that the O/OS have to buy new equipment every 2, 3 years. in your quote you mention "it should not be left to the trucking companies" THERE ARE NO COMPANIES issuing licences?. but there are companies and unions  that work closely with transport Canada. with industry wide safety initiatives and training .when they deregulated motor carrier licence to haul within BC , what used to cost a substantial amount  was dropped , meaning if you owned a truck you could haul anywhere ,..no expensive motor carrier licence required .there became to much competition , rates being undercut , wages dropping , calibre of driver dropping with the lower wage .safety went right out the window check out the vid at the 9 minute mark , I dealt with this exact same stupidity every winter for 22 years...I respect you for your informed posts on things, but you did admit to not knowing  about driving trucks , i'll add or the trucking industry.

 

The undercutting of wages is essentially why the industry is so bad and why certain ethnicitys have a majority of the industry cause nobody can make a living anymore.

[RUPERTKBD]

14 hours ago, Curmudgeon said:

I haven't followed this whole thread so forgive me if this question has been answered:

 

Is nobody looking at the time of day, the direction of the truck and the position of the sun relative to the horizon? If, on Google Maps satellite mode, you locate yourself at the stop sign pointing west, it is very likely that the setting sun was shining directly in the truck driver's eyes. Not saying that excuses anything, but I think it is just one more unfortunate circumstance that contributed to the tragedy. I am a careful driver, but I have great difficulty when the sun is shining directly in my eyes in the late afternoon, despite using a visor and sunglasses. If someone suddenly appears moving across my path, I may not see them immediately, and as we all know, a split second delay in response time can result in horrific carnage.

 

So again I ask, has that question been raised by anybody and if so, what was the discussion around time of day and position of the sun relative to the road?

This was covered shortly after the accident. I'm going from memory but IIRC, someone brought that up and it was deemed unlikely.

 

The collision happened around 5 pm, but checking with the Weather Network, sunset occurred after 7 pm that day, in that part of Saskatchewan.

 

It's already been fairly well established that a line of trees to the truck driver's left (and the bus driver's right) likely kept both drivers from seeing each other until it was too late. (In many areas of the prairies, trees are planted in rows to provide a windbreak for farmer's fields)

 

In any event, the "sun in the eyes" defense would only be relevant if it kept the truck driver from seeing the stop sign and the flashing red light beside it. With two hours reamaining until sunset, I think it's highly unlikely.

 

My opinion (and it's nothing more than that) is that the truck driver probably hadn't seen many vehicles on that road and assumed that the intersection would be clear. As someone who has driven the lesser traveled roads of Saskatchewan, I can understand how the driver might get complacent in that situation. I would never have done that myself, but I never drove a Semi (with limited training) and never had to go through a dozen gears in order to come to a complete stop.

 

I believe the driver made a huge and tragic error, but knowing those roads, I'm not totally surprised that it happened.

[chon derry]

8 hours ago, Violator said:

The undercutting of wages is essentially why the industry is so bad and why certain ethnicitys have a majority of the industry cause nobody can make a living anymore.

ethnicities aside , with the new container port here in Rupert theres approx, 40 new,ish  driving jobs  the majority of container movement to Chicago is by rail ,there is new warehouses ((unload reload) 3 lumber stuffing facilities ,so 35 local trucks each making around 10 trips a shift , I know a few  of the guyz  the wage is dependent on experience ,which isn't much of a draw to the experienced driver unless he or she is new to town and has to settle on it, 19 to 21 an hr. non union  I remember getting a raise in 99/00 to 22 lol its all good.....cough cough.in the last 6 years 3 different companies have had this local contract. the stevedoring  company can sit back and watch these companies consume each other , im amazed that the local ilwu hasn't requested union cards to access the gates.

[Curmudgeon]

5 hours ago, RUPERTKBD said:

This was covered shortly after the accident. I'm going from memory but IIRC, someone brought that up and it was deemed unlikely.

 

The collision happened around 5 pm, but checking with the Weather Network, sunset occurred after 7 pm that day, in that part of Saskatchewan.

 

Thanks for the clarification. I hadn't seen that information before. I guess with everything happening in literal seconds, and without any of the key details confirmed, there were likely numerous factors that all contributed to the accident. I am confident in the investigators being able to be definitive in determining what happened.

[otherwise]

Division of the Go Fund me has begun, $50K to each survivor / family of those who passed away. A 5 member committee appointed by sask court of queen's bench will decide how the rest of the money will be divided. 

 

more info: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatoon/court-to-hear-humboldt-broncos-fundraising-case-today-update-1.4785861

 

[Smashian Kassian]

On 8/8/2018 at 11:54 AM, Toews said:

The root of the problem is that is far too easy to get behind a wheel. If you fail to enforce any standard this is what you end up with which is a bunch of untrained drivers on the roads. It accomplishes nothing to point fingers at people, at the end of the day everyone is just trying to make a buck to feed their families. It is up to the government to enforce stricter standards and regulate who can or cannot drive a commercial vehicle, it should not be left to the trucking companies. If someone is a licensed driver then that person should be able to competently handle the vehicle whose license they possess. 

Maybe the driver underestimated the amount of space necessary to stop due to inexperience?? I don't really know the details of the case, but if he was loaded he would have needed alot more room to stop. That or maybe he thought he was clear and just decided to blow the stop sign. Or maybe he had been on the road a long time and was a dozing off? 

 

I guess we don't know alot of the details.