[Discussion]The Correct Defenceman to Trade

[aGENT]

We don't have a replacement yet for his 23+ minutes, all situations. Like it or not, he's still by far our best all around D.

 

He also has an NTC he shows no signs of waiving. Our options might be re-sign him or let him walk for free. 

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Hairy Kneel said:

We should ask Edler for a list of teams at least. To look around and kick some tires.

This exactly.  There's nothing wrong with it, can't see the value in signing him with OJ and Hughes needing both needing spots next year, and he might as well start deciding where he wants to play next, he still has value as a second pairing defenseman, and would be great as a depth option for a contender if not a solid upgrade.  We could retain some salary to make it easier to fit until the end of the year, he's definitely a TDL candidate.

[6string]

Tanev has become more valuable to us in a mentoring role with two high end rookies playing in our backend this coming season. I could live another year with Edler too who looked strong after the All Star break. If he continues that level of play, Edler would rub off on the two youngsters in a very positive way.

 

MDZ with a working holiday visa :), Pouliot and Hutton underachieving get a clean slate going into camp. Hutton apparently is having his best off season of training that is good news. I'd love to see Hutton turn it around with Pouliot pushing hard for spots. Meanwhile do we have something special in Wiercioch, Brisebois, Sautner, McEneny and Jalen Chatfield who caught our eyes last camp?

[Hairy Kneel]

1 hour ago, Viper007 said:

Unfortunately, he's stated multiple times that he doesn't want to go anywhere else.  Maybe at the TDL, if the Canucks tell him that they're not re-signing him, he may change his mind.  

Simply a preliminary list, surely he could acknowledge that the team is changing and that he may be useful to a playoff team?  Or is he mule headed on not moving under any circumstances?

[aGENT]

48 minutes ago, VanGnome said:

I honestly can see Tanev signing a long term deal to stay in Vancouver after this year. 

I honestly can see Tanev telling the Canucks to pounds sand, go UFA and head back East closer to home (and less travel). I don't think he has any desire to stay here. 

[Hairy Kneel]

50 minutes ago, laddie said:

I agree with all of what is written except for one thing...do you let Edler walk as a UFA without attempting to get some return for him at the deadline?  I don’t see asking him to waive at the deadline as being disrespectful but instead giving him the opportunity to compete for the cup.

If he walks away for nothing as a UFA  it will de-value his legacy, there are no permanent lockers in the NHL. 

btw ask NYI fans about valuable assets walking away for free?

[VanGnome]

26 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I honestly can see Tanev telling the Canucks to pounds sand, go UFA and head back East closer to home (and less travel). I don't think he has any desire to stay here. 

If that was really the case, he would have not signed the current contract he's on. He was 2 years from UFA when he signed his current deal, if he had no desire to be here he would have instructed his agent to negotiate nothing longer than 2 years if he really wanted to explore UFA.

[aGENT]

Just now, VanGnome said:

If that was really the case, he would have not signed the current contract he's on. He was 2 years from UFA when he signed his current deal, if he had no desire to be here he would have instructed his agent to negotiate nothing longer than 2 years if he really wanted to explore UFA.

Things change. A few years of losing changes minds. 

[VanGnome]

Just now, aGENT said:

Things change. A few years of losing changes minds. 

 

The above stats line are Tanev's for the past 3 years. Tanev being as injured as much as he has been, in addition to OTHER injuries this team has had over the past few seasons is as much to do with the team losing more than it has been winning as much as any other factor you want to consider.

If the Canucks hadn't had the piss poor luck they have with injuries they would have been a lot more competitive than they have been, might not have made the playoffs but would have been a lot better in the standings. It's actually fortunate that we have had this bad luck, otherwise we may not have had the good fortune to draft Juolevi, Pettersson and Hughes in successive years.

This team is about to turn a corner, despite what many think, this year we will be challenging for a wildcard spot. Tanev has this year and one more left on his deal, I think the chances of him re-upping is exceedingly high.

As for Edler, you could make a case for bringing him back, especially if Hutton and/or Pouliot fail to bounce back. Having a left side of Hughes - Juolevi - Edler is pretty formidable, when you compare the right side of Tanev - Stecher - Gudbranson.

I don't think anyone is really looking at this situation under full context. The Canucks haven't been BAD so much as they have been incredibly unlucky.

[VanGnome]

15 minutes ago, VanGnome said:

If that was really the case, he would have not signed the current contract he's on. He was 2 years from UFA when he signed his current deal, if he had no desire to be here he would have instructed his agent to negotiate nothing longer than 2 years if he really wanted to explore UFA.

I actually have to retract the above statement. He was a pending UFA when he signed the deal, as he signed as an undrafted UFA out of college.

[Blömqvist]

If we trade Edler this season then we don't have any signed top-4 left side defensemen for next year as Del Zotto is a UFA in 2019. That leaves just Hughes and Juolevi along with Hutton (RFA) to eat up minutes. We would need a major UFA signing to eat up top pairing minutes for next season if we were to trade Edler; I don't believe neither Hughes nor Juolevi can play the 22-24 minutes that Edler does.

[Blömqvist]

Further, I would rather trade Tanev. Both Stecher and Gudbranson have shown in previous years that they can play effective top-4 minutes.

[Gaudette Celly]

2 hours ago, VanGnome said:

It's Del Zotto. He has no clauses in his contract and expires this year. 3 million is a bit of an over payment, but if the Canucks retain 50% on this year, suddenly he becomes VERY attractive for potential contenders at 1.5 million for a fairly offensive 3rd pairing d-man.

Could be two to go.  MDZ is the obvious first choice. and likely with the most value of the three.  Probably get more for him at the TDL, but we've got a roster to fill, team to build, and youth to develop and run with.  The other one between Hutton and Pouliot would come down to the team -- which do they value more, or sees has more of a long-term future.  May even come down to the intangibles, or maybe they are both considered placeholders.

 

I don't see them moving Edler or Tanev, with quite possibly both Juolevi and Hughes making the team.  Edler perhaps at the TDL if he won't be back, but Tanev I think they keep through to next year's TDL at least, when he's a pending UFA.  By then hopefully a Sautner or Brisebois has at least got their feet wet in the NHL.

[aGENT]

53 minutes ago, VanGnome said:

 

The above stats line are Tanev's for the past 3 years. Tanev being as injured as much as he has been, in addition to OTHER injuries this team has had over the past few seasons is as much to do with the team losing more than it has been winning as much as any other factor you want to consider.

If the Canucks hadn't had the piss poor luck they have with injuries they would have been a lot more competitive than they have been, might not have made the playoffs but would have been a lot better in the standings. It's actually fortunate that we have had this bad luck, otherwise we may not have had the good fortune to draft Juolevi, Pettersson and Hughes in successive years.

This team is about to turn a corner, despite what many think, this year we will be challenging for a wildcard spot. Tanev has this year and one more left on his deal, I think the chances of him re-upping is exceedingly high.

As for Edler, you could make a case for bringing him back, especially if Hutton and/or Pouliot fail to bounce back. Having a left side of Hughes - Juolevi - Edler is pretty formidable, when you compare the right side of Tanev - Stecher - Gudbranson.

I don't think anyone is really looking at this situation under full context. The Canucks haven't been BAD so much as they have been incredibly unlucky.

Don't know what this has to do with him wanting to head closer to home, back east, with less travel to a team that IS a contender vs one that hopes to, maybe, eventually be one. 

[mpt]

3 hours ago, laddie said:

There has been a lot of discussion surrounding trading Tanev, even though our two highest drafted defencemen both play on the left side and our need is support on the right side.  Alex Edler played well last season but as you look down our depth chart, is he needed next year?  Is this the time that instead of the “Trade Tanev” chants we should start to envision trading Edler at the deadline? Edler becomes a free agent at the end of this coming year and perhaps this is the time when we seek his approval to trade him at the deadline to a contender. Then going into next season do we start with Hughes, Joulevi and Hutton on the left side?  I could envision our starting 6 looking something like this going into next year:

 

Hughes - Tanev

Joulevi - Stetcher

Hutton - Gudbranson

Pouliet

 

Edler won’t waive his NTC he’s renovating a huge home in Kits and is staying in Vancouver much like the Sedins.

[Nuxfanabroad]

Guys, don't rush Hughes & OJ. Bank on them for 2019/20.

 

Pouliot & Hutton to Edm for Sekeras , 2019 2nd(& cond 3rd).

 

MDZ out East, for 3rd or 4th rounder.

 

Tanev at TDL, IF a 1st(or top prospect) is dangled.

 

Edler  -  Gudbranson

Sekeras  -  Tanev

Sautner - Stecher

McEneny - Bulldog

 

Could even claim some lunkhead in the fall. Stay modest..accumulate 2019 picks.(hoping for a total of 12~14 picks)

[VanGnome]

37 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Don't know what this has to do with him wanting to head closer to home, back east, with less travel to a team that IS a contender vs one that hopes to, maybe, eventually be one. 

Maybe because that's not as much of a draw to some players as it is to others? Personally speaking if I had a choice between signing a contract with Vancouver, the team who gave me my chance in the NHL or take the money and go to Toronto which may or may not work out, I'd choose the former every time.

There's a few reasons for that, we look at it from the outside and think "yeah why wouldn't he go to Toronto, Tavares did", but we don't take into account that the relationships that players forge with not just their teammates, but also the support staff, their families here and extended friendships away from the rink matter as well. Vancouver has hands down way better climate than Toronto, and Vancouver and the surrounding area affords far more in terms of nature and the related activities.

Also take into account money not being an object for players of this caliber, the difference between making 5-6 million in Vancouver and 6 to 7 million in Toronto is negligible at best. For Tanev, Vancouver is a known quantity. He has an established relationship with the teams coach and management and his role on the team. The same cannot be said for what could transpire in Toronto. We all agree he would immediately become Toronto's best defensive defenceman, but the grass is not always greener on the other side.

How's that for an extrapolation? Has he actually said he wants to go home? Be closer to family? Everything he's said so far points to wanting to make Vancouver a contender. He was here as a rookie when we were contenders, has seen the decline and knows that we're very close to turning the corner. That's why he considers staying long term.

[Gaudette Celly]

54 minutes ago, mpt said:

Edler won’t waive his NTC he’s renovating a huge home in Kits and is staying in Vancouver much like the Sedins.

What happens if the Canucks tell him they aren't re-signing him, he'll retire?

[mpt]

3 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:

What happens if the Canucks tell him they aren't re-signing him, he'll retire?

They’d be silly not to re-sign him.  But if they did, he could sign somewhere else, until then, he won’t be waiving his NTC.

 

I bet you anything Edler retires as a Canuck.

[Gaudette Celly]

6 minutes ago, mpt said:

They’d be silly not to re-sign him.  But if they did, he could sign somewhere else, until then, he won’t be waiving his NTC.

 

I bet you anything Edler retires as a Canuck.

So much for the reno.  If they indicate he won't be re-signed, or if they aren't likely to come to an agreement on terms, it's in his own best interest to do what Burrows did -- waive and negotiate an extension with another team.