[Discussion] Starting line-up and Waiver Concerns

[J.I.A.H.N]

I can remember a Poster, posting 2 separate line-ups, one with all our current players and one with our prospects (there looked to about 23 players on each roster). It looked fantastic, and something well worth waiting for. I am curious to see how Benning manages this intriguing problem, without giving veteran players away.

 

Many on CDC see our team this year starting with Hughes, Juolevi. Pettersson and Gaudette, which if they are all dominating their piers, would be most acceptable. However, Benning suffers from a numbers game at this present time, having 23 signed players at this moment, plus Stecher and Virtanen, which equal 25...…...

 

My thoughts stem around that number, and the urgency or lack of, that Benning should have going into the present season. The number is 25 but needs to be at 23 before the first game of the season. Now Benning has done a great job of creating depth, and I have no argument with his moves in this regards, over the past 3 years,.....,,again it is exciting to see such potential lurking in all corners of our franchise. For a bottom team, this is exactly what you want. Now it is important to recognize, that Dorsett is still part of Bennings 25, as it is my understanding he will be part of the starting 23 before the first game (He will then be placed on LTIR for the final year of his contract)

 

So even with the 25 needing to be paired down to 23  for opening day, Benning should be moving waiver exempt players down to Utica......who will this be? Well, Gaudette for one, which drops it to 24 players and 1 more needing to be sent down. So I can see a paper transfer of Boeser, who is also waiver exempt as a likely move, so that he does not loose anyone of significance to waivers. Just for clarification regarding Boeser, he will not step on a plane and will be the Canucks line-up for the opening game.(this is only to get to the 23 player maximum, without loosing a player to waivers)

 

Now this waiver Business, gives me a little concern, because I "think" Motte, Goldobin, MacEwen, McEneny and Sautner are waiver eligible and could possibly be picked up. Is that a major loose...no, but it does take away from the whole, and in the case of Goldobin, he is a good asset you would not like to see leave for nothing.

 

This leads me to the expectation of our prospects that may break onto the Canucks this year, and how this affects the rule of 23 and the other veterans, if the rookies were brought up at the beginning of the year. You see, I don't think there will be a market for any of our dislodged veteran players immediately prior to the start of the season, so I wonder if Benning will actually not keep all the prospects, including Pettersson, Gaudette, Juolevi, Hughes, and Demko on the farm, until there is a demand for the players who would be dislodged by any promotion of top 5 prospects. It is what I would do.

 

I bring this up to discuss the disappointment of CDC, if this occurs, and the question of which veteran players will be dislodged by our prospects, if this was to occur. I also feel that Benning may leave them down to percolate until injuries occur, and then platoon the rookies in during those times, then slowly move potential dislodged veterans when there is a demand because of injury or the TDL.

 

In the mean time, do you have any concerns of loosing Goldobin, Motte, MacEwen, McEneny or Sautner? Do you see this happening? Do you see Pettersson and Hughes starting the season with the Canucks (not do you want them to, but will they?)…..((I want them to...just don't see it happening)

 

Does anyone else see it this way, does anyone else have these concerns? (it is a nice problem)

 

I look forward to hearing your thoughts...…………...

[HerrDrFunk]

I'm not particularly worried about losing any waiver eligible guys come October. There's always a flood of guys hitting the waiver wire before each season and unless a team is desperate, it's fairly rare for a player to get claimed then as teams are in the process of setting their opening night roster. 

 

Besides, wasn't Corrado the last "notable" player that the Canucks lost to waivers? How's he doing these days? 

[aliboy]

I'm expecting to see some trades, give it some time. We need to see what it's going to look like closer to the start of the season.

[Wilbur]

3 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

 

 

In the mean time, do you have any concerns of loosing Goldobin, Motte, MacEwen, McEneny or Sautner? Do you see this happening? Do you see Pettersson and Hughes starting the season with the Canucks (not do you want them to, but will they?)…..((I want them to...just don't see it happening)

 

Does anyone else see it this way, does anyone else have these concerns? (it is a nice problem)

 

I look forward to hearing your thoughts...…………...

I don't believe Motte is a concern, I don't know the specific rule but I've heard he only has to clear waivers once he plays 1 more NHL game.  Cap Friendly has MacEwen as waiver exempt too.

 

McEneny and Sautner I'm not worried about.  I'd be shocked if they were claimed at this point.  If Goldobin hasn't earned a spot by training camp then Benning should try to see what he can get in a trade.  It'll probably be a 6th or a 7th, but I don't see him clearing waivers, some team would take a flyer on him.  Are you assuming Gaunce is on the team?  That's a guy I saw most likely waiver bound but saw him clearing (most likely).

 

Barring a terrible camp, I see Pettersson making the team.  I'm less certain with Hughes.  My guess at this point is he goes back to Michigan.

[King Heffy]

If someone plays their way onto the team, they'll make room.

[coastal.view]

why the concern

reality = the canucks are a lousy team

their future looks promising

but really . their roster from last year was pretty meh..  worse then average

 

if certain veteran players cannot make the roster this year

and are waived

what is really lost ?  not much at all

those players clearly are fringe nhl talent and will have little to no value anyway

 

and i don't really want the utica roster clogged with veteran players who clear waivers either

i'd prefer those players get picked up

or bought out

if they cannot make the main club they are more of a liability

then an asset in my view

don't want them around anymore at all

 

the corrado comparisons are apt

so much blow back by so many fans over a very fringe player

get over it

[VegasCanuck]

8 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

I can remember a Poster, posting 2 separate line-ups, one with all our current players and one with our prospects (there looked to about 23 players on each roster). It looked fantastic, and something well worth waiting for. I am curious to see how Benning manages this intriguing problem, without giving veteran players away.

 

Many on CDC see our team this year starting with Hughes, Juolevi. Pettersson and Gaudette, which if they are all dominating their piers, would be most acceptable. However, Benning suffers from a numbers game at this present time, having 23 signed players at this moment, plus Stecher and Virtanen, which equal 25...…...

 

My thoughts stem around that number, and the urgency or lack of, that Benning should have going into the present season. The number is 25 but needs to be at 23 before the first game of the season. Now Benning has done a great job of creating depth, and I have no argument with his moves in this regards, over the past 3 years,.....,,again it is exciting to see such potential lurking in all corners of our franchise. For a bottom team, this is exactly what you want. Now it is important to recognize, that Dorsett is still part of Bennings 25, as it is my understanding he will be part of the starting 23 before the first game (He will then be placed on LTIR for the final year of his contract)

 

So even with the 25 needing to be paired down to 23  for opening day, Benning should be moving waiver exempt players down to Utica......who will this be? Well, Gaudette for one, which drops it to 24 players and 1 more needing to be sent down. So I can see a paper transfer of Boeser, who is also waiver exempt as a likely move, so that he does not loose anyone of significance to waivers. Just for clarification regarding Boeser, he will not step on a plane and will be the Canucks line-up for the opening game.(this is only to get to the 23 player maximum, without loosing a player to waivers)

 

Now this waiver Business, gives me a little concern, because I "think" Motte, Goldobin, MacEwen, McEneny and Sautner are waiver eligible and could possibly be picked up. Is that a major loose...no, but it does take away from the whole, and in the case of Goldobin, he is a good asset you would not like to see leave for nothing.

 

This leads me to the expectation of our prospects that may break onto the Canucks this year, and how this affects the rule of 23 and the other veterans, if the rookies were brought up at the beginning of the year. You see, I don't think there will be a market for any of our dislodged veteran players immediately prior to the start of the season, so I wonder if Benning will actually not keep all the prospects, including Pettersson, Gaudette, Juolevi, Hughes, and Demko on the farm, until there is a demand for the players who would be dislodged by any promotion of top 5 prospects. It is what I would do.

 

I bring this up to discuss the disappointment of CDC, if this occurs, and the question of which veteran players will be dislodged by our prospects, if this was to occur. I also feel that Benning may leave them down to percolate until injuries occur, and then platoon the rookies in during those times, then slowly move potential dislodged veterans when there is a demand because of injury or the TDL.

 

In the mean time, do you have any concerns of loosing Goldobin, Motte, MacEwen, McEneny or Sautner? Do you see this happening? Do you see Pettersson and Hughes starting the season with the Canucks (not do you want them to, but will they?)…..((I want them to...just don't see it happening)

 

Does anyone else see it this way, does anyone else have these concerns? (it is a nice problem)

 

I look forward to hearing your thoughts...…………...

I would say that its extremely likely that when camp concludes, that even if a prospect has played his way onto the team and outplayed a veteran, they will likely start in Utica for asset management. This happened a couple of years ago when Stecher played his way onto the opening lineup but was sent down until a spot could be opened up. As happened, and as often happens, someone got injured early in the season and Stecher was recalled after 3 or 4 games in Utica, where he had been playing top 4 minutes.

 

Because of Dorsett's contract, we will need to assign someone, at least on paper, before we can move Dorsette to LTIR for the duration of his contract with the Canucks.

 

The thing that many people on this board seem to forget every year is, there will be injuries in training camp. Someone (in past you could always count on Salo), will get injured and open up a spot for other rookies.

 

How this team is setup now for veteran depth is exactly what we want. We want these guys challenging veterans for spots and pushing the pace of the camp. On Defense, I think its safe to say, Edler and Tanev are a lock, so Juolevi needs to come in and beat out MDZ, Hutton, Biega etc, and if he can't then he should be starting in Utica and fine tuning from there. Personally I think part of the reason that Juolevi hasn't been on the team yet is that he put too much emphasis on gaining weight and that it impacted his game in other areas and it took some time to adjust. Its important that players put on weight in the right way, or they won't be able to keep pace. Just look at Virtanen a couple of years ago.

 

There's always going to be some concern on losing someone on waivers, but the difference I see this year, if the kids are pushing and outplaying someone ahead of them, I think the veteran gets traded or waived. The reason I think the team is willing to do this is, for the first time in a long time, we have cap space. We'll have about 15 million in room, once Dorsett gets moved to LTIR. Just as an example, and I'm not singling anyone out on here, but if Gagner wasn't playing to expectation in camp, His contract is 3.15 million. If we aren't able to trade him, we have the cap room that we could assign him to Utica, take the 950k credit and eat the other 2.2 million on the cap with pretty much no negative effect to the team, other than Aquaman's pocketbook.

 

Overall, I see your concerns and you've done a well thought out post, but especially this year, I don't see it being an issue. There will be a lot of juggling when we have to submit opening night roster, but I'm pretty confident that we can do it without losing anyone significant.

 

[Nucker 67]

Unless traded, these guys will be in the starting lineup:

 

F - Baertchi, Horvat, Boeser, Eriksson, Gagner, Granlund, Sutter, Roussel, Beagle, Schaller, Virtanen, ________

D - Edler, Tanev, Stecher, Gudbranson, Hutton, Del Zotto, Pouliot

G - Markstrom, Nilsson

 

Maybe Pettersson takes the last F spot? Hopefully they can make room for Quinn and Olli too. 

[Fanuck]

I see Petterssen and one of OJ or Hughes in the lineup to begin the season.   The rest of the fringe guys I see JB playing the waiver game wherein they get reassigned to Utica but never actually leave the city of Vancouver.   

 

Unfortunately I don't believe JB for a second that if a young kid outplays a veteran that the vet is going to sit or get traded.   There's too much risk with our club's lack of overall depth where JB can jettison veterans for the sake of a couple kids who get off to hot starts.   We sadly have a lot of quantity when it comes to veterans but a real lack of quality otherwise personnel decisions wouldn't be an issue. 

[RonMexico]

12 minutes ago, coastal.view said:

the corrado comparisons are apt

so much blow back by so many fans over a very fringe player

get over it

This happens all the time. This team was so hungry for youth that guys like Corrado or Shinkaruk were put on a pedestal and significantly over valued because the cupboard was bare. Now that depth is much improved, the pedestal is crowded with everyone thinking every prospect is going to make it.

[J.I.A.H.N]

Yes VegasCanuck I feel the same way...…. I just want to hear people s thoughts on the subject

I actually agree With Coastal View, up until his last comment......pretty spot on

I just think it would be a shame to loose asset for nothing

 

That and the fact that Benning's 3 UFA signing are for the 4 line?, which means that if anyone is going to be displaced it will mostly be from the 2 and 3 lines, which means to me they do not get put on waivers, which means to me that until a trade can be facilitated, the prospect stays down....who knows how long that will take

As for Gaunce...I like him, as he is dependable, but his rope is becoming very short.....not much trade value....which goes to what Coastal View is saying

[alfstonker]

I, like the OP am a bit concerned.

Actually I wouldn't want to lose ANY of the players named. I think Sautner, McEneny, Leipsic, Gaunce are a strong part of our back up and Sautner looked really strong when he came up.

We can't take the risk of losing any of these players until we comprehensively know their capabilities. I would rather lose Pouliot, MDZ and Archie.

[smithers joe]

i think green will force JB's hands. he may have orders to keep certain players but that would go against what jim said about if players prove they belong on the team, they will make room. 

green will look at players and what they bring to the team. 

gaunce... defensive forward...little to no offence.

goldobin...offensive instincts...weak defensively.

gagner...pp specialist that isn't very special.

motte ...good defensively... not much offence.

archibald... physical...but not always

pettersson and gaudette...good potential and skills...maybe not ready yet.

ericksson...good defensively... offense is not as good as it was in his prime...

granlund...good defensively... offense hasn't been there lately.

leipsic...fire plug player...not nuch offence. 

beagle, roussel and schaller....defense and toughness. 

virtanen. speed, big body..lacks hockey sense.

sutter...great shutdown center and face off man...not a great playmaker or scorer. 

baertschi...improving player...still lacks some consistency and compete.

edler...horse of a d-man logs big minutes...skills not as good as they once were.

delzotto..can play big minutes but if over extended he gives the puck away too often

hutton and pouliot...jury is still out on them

gudbranson...physical player...doesn't always play physical enough.

tanev...very good shut down d-man...get injured a lot.

 

if green puts together the team he feels has the best chance to win, will JB make those choices or not?

 

[Nuxfanabroad]

Trade 2 or 3 players for 1(perhaps overpriced, but short in term) vet, with 2019 picks thrown in to compensate our cap-assistance.

 

Picks probably come cheaper in the preceding summer, as opposed to upcoming Jan~TDL period.

[mll]

There is no reason to put Dorsett on LTIR as the Canucks are well under the cap.  It's for teams who need the cap space that there's some papering at the start of the season.    

 

[Shekky]

52 minutes ago, HerrDrFunk said:

I'm not particularly worried about losing any waiver eligible guys come October. There's always a flood of guys hitting the waiver wire before each season and unless a team is desperate, it's fairly rare for a player to get claimed then as teams are in the process of setting their opening night roster. 

 

Besides, wasn't Corrado the last "notable" player that the Canucks lost to waivers? How's he doing these days? 

Yeah he isn't doing so good but to be fair Babcock did sit him for what 2 seasons I can't remember now and getting sat for however long it was will really hurt a players development.

[HerrDrFunk]

2 minutes ago, Shekky said:

Yeah he isn't doing so good but to be fair Babcock did sit him for what 2 seasons I can't remember now and getting sat for however long it was will really hurt a players development.

To be fair, he couldn't crack a Leafs D that wasn't exactly All-Star caliber. 

[smithers joe]

i could see gaunce, gagner, mott, and even del zotto clearing wavers. 

we might have to trade goldobin or granlund

if ericksson becomes an odd man out, i'ld wave him. if someone picks him up fine, if not he goes to uttica and helps lead the youth down there. he isn't on his nmc anymore, just ntc.

[Pete M]

24 minutes ago, smithers joe said:

i think green will force JB's hands. he may have orders to keep certain players but that would go against what jim said about if players prove they belong on the team, they will make room. 

green will look at players and what they bring to the team. 

gaunce... defensive forward...little to no offence.

goldobin...offensive instincts...weak defensively.

gagner...pp specialist that isn't very special.

motte ...good defensively... not much offence.

archibald... physical...but not always

pettersson and gaudette...good potential and skills...maybe not ready yet.

ericksson...good defensively... offense is not as good as it was in his prime...

granlund...good defensively... offense hasn't been there lately.

leipsic...fire plug player...not nuch offence. 

beagle, roussel and schaller....defense and toughness. 

virtanen. speed, big body..lacks hockey sense.

sutter...great shutdown center and face off man...not a great playmaker or scorer. 

baertschi...improving player...still lacks some consistency and compete.

edler...horse of a d-man logs big minutes...skills not as good as they once were.

delzotto..can play big minutes but if over extended he gives the puck away too often

hutton and pouliot...jury is still out on them

gudbranson...physical player...doesn't always play physical enough.

tanev...very good shut down d-man...get injured a lot.

 

if green puts together the team he feels has the best chance to win, will JB make those choices or not?

 

Scoring will be a problem from your summary....the PP will be very important this year to get a goal per game to help with the scoring.

I hope Gaudette makes the team along with Pettersson and that Gagner and Granlund get traded.

[-SN-]

50 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

Unless traded, these guys will be in the starting lineup:

 

F - Baertchi, Horvat, Boeser, Eriksson, Gagner, Granlund, Sutter, Roussel, Beagle, Schaller, Virtanen, ________

D - Edler, Tanev, Stecher, Gudbranson, Hutton, Del Zotto, Pouliot

G - Markstrom, Nilsson

 

Maybe Pettersson takes the last F spot? Hopefully they can make room for Quinn and Olli too. 

I can't really say this is a team I'm excited to watch.