Jump to content
The Official Site of the Vancouver Canucks
Canucks Community

Benning, Goldobin, and a logjam of forwards?


Mike Vanderhoek

Recommended Posts

5 minutes ago, dpn1 said:

I think I might switch Loui & Roussel.  Second line will get pushed around too much.

or maybe Schaller for Goldy? I really want to see Loui with top 6 minutes and try to get real production out of him. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Mike Vanderhoek said:

Curious to get the thoughts of others here, I hear daily on 650 ( I enjoy the Canucks coverage overall ) about a few things that grind my gears.

 

Jim Benning: it seems the consensus in the media? Is Benning will be on thin ice come the end of his current contract. We are hearing Benning needs Hughes, Boeser, and his other notable picks to reach max potential on sky high ceilings in order to save his job ?!?

 

I don't get it, am I one of the very few who sees with ownership in place the Benning/Linden regime here long term?

 

Benning has greatly improved the teams overall depth and quality of youth I just don't see how he'd be on a short leash.

 

Nikolay Goldobin: have heard more than a few times and again just now how little Goldobin is viewed even now how he is the Canucks reclamation project who maybe gets flipped for a 4th ir 5th round pick ?!? sorry what?

 

I mean the guy was a 1st round pick, has shown slick skill, speed, and finish. Has spent time in the organization learning the defensive side of the game as well. 22 years old and a scorer's touch that will need scoring. How is he a reclamation project?

 

If anything in a contract year, opportunity to play an offensive role, this reclamation project could pot 20 goals and make some defense look silly doing it. We saw flashes of this last year. Again, scratch my head when I hear project.

 

Logjam at forward? Defense?: one if the biggest ironies here is fans and media alike complain for years the prospect cupboard is bare, not enough players pushing for NHL jobs and the complaint once injuries hit that the Chaput's of the World get minutes.

 

Now the team has greater depth at all positions. Prospects knocking on the door and regulars and depth players under contract.

 

Some people keep sounding off about the team needing to trade out players because there is too many now especially at forward. Or on defense where will Hughes ir OJ fit. You dont go into camp with only enough bodies to fill roles and you certainly add veterans where you can in the event prospects cant make the jump.

 

Worst case is come the end of camp what? Biega, Gaunce go on Waivers ? nobody claims them because 30 other teams are trying to sneak their guys down too....

 

Like to hear others thoughts as maybe I'm out to lunch but seems there is a voice here that Benning is on thin ice, Goldobin is a project, and the team has too many potential NHL pieces on their roster.

Jim Benning:

JB is not perfect and I think he has some pluses and minuses. Drafting and finding young talent - A+, Trades - C+, FA signings - C- . I think his lack of knowledge or being able to work with the other GM's gives him a disadvantage in this respect. I think he has had opportunities where GM's are looking at some of our vets(Tanev, Hamhuis) and he has not been able to come up with some sort deal that will work for both parties. The consensus with FA's is the ones he acquires do not produce and they get overpaid. 

I think this is a year where his projects must show their worth, some of the prospects show they belong, and some FA's need to show their worth(Gagner,Ericksson). 

With the Sedins gone, this will have to be the year that JB's team starts to show promise of what this team is to become. Not so much as to make the playoffs but should show some kind of improvement over the last couple of years.

Nikolay Goldobin:

He is a reclamation project as others have already given up on him. He is not a well rounded player but he is still fairly young and has talent. I think this will be his last year to show he can stick or he will be passed on like others before him and someone else will be afforded the opportunity. I think with players such as him and others(Grabner,Yakupov) is their inconsistencies. Having the commitment for 60 minutes, 82 games has to be part of your game if you are to survive playing in the NHL.

Logjam at forward? Defense? 

The logjam I see is in the middle of the road players and if we have to lose some of these guys then so be it. As others have said" the cream rises to the top" and the rest will be discarded for better players to come along. I would rather have the "hungry" players anyway and the "entitled" ones can move along to another team.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In regards to Benning on the hot seat, I believe that ownership (understandably) does not have much patience for losing.

 

In particular, I think ownership expects that, if they are going to spend to the cap each and every year, that they should be able to ice a team that makes the playoffs more than 50% of the time.  I don't blame Aquaman if he holds those expectations.

 

If you are spending to the cap each year, and are not making the playoffs more than 50% of the time, you are probably looking at a management issue.

 

On the other hand, if you accept the "rebuilding" justification (that it takes a few years of missing the playoffs to end up making them consistently), then you shouldn't have to spend to the cap during the rebuild.  If you are spending to the cap just to finish last, then that is also a sign of poor management.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Goldobin is a total wild card.  I appreciate the good attitude he’s kept since joining the organization... and he was on pace for 17 goals last year in spot duty.  He could surprise or he could never play another regular season game in a Canucks jersey.  Exciting times. 

 

As for Benning, this is his team now and yeah, I guess if it flops over the next 2 seasons he’s probably done.  But boy has he created a lot of outs.  

 

-tons of offensive upside players.  He’s be in big trouble if he was banking on just one or two... but Baer, Goldy, Leipsic, Virtanen, Gaudette, Pettersson and then Dahlen, Lind, Gadjovich in the near future.  Some of those dudes are going to join Bo and Brock putting up points.

 

-JB has (rightfully) chased a PPQB d man since he arrived... and guess what just dropped into his lap.  Adding Hughes/Juolevi over the next 2 seasons should add trickle down offence to the whole team.

 

The scoring will come.  JB has also added quite the security blanket when it comes to high effort, two-way veteran forwards.  He’s paid for them, but Sutter, Loui, Roussel, Beagle and Schaller should keep the team working hard and playing “the right way.”  People like to use those guys as a negative but I think they’ll prove their worth as the kids take off.

 

The limiting factor for the team will be the D and Goalies.  Just depends on how (and how quickly) Hughes, Juolevi, Woo and Demko pan out.  Plus, a healthy Tanev and Guddy will go a long way. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

takes 8 to 10 years to build a team through the draft...JB started two years ago after realizing the core was old...end of contract, he will be in year 6, but he started rebuilding in year 3...so he needs another 5 years after his contract ends to see the fruits of his labour payoff. Unfortunately, that's a lot of time to wait (and the payoff is not guaranteed). Most owners do not have the patience...especially if this team finishes bottom 3 for the next 2 years...if this happens, then I believe JB is on very thin ice.

 

One player that may help JB's cause is the return of Tryamkin...because Tryamkin was a very good pick by JB in the middle round.

 

If I was JB in his situation, I would spend some effort in getting Tryamkin back.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, thejazz97 said:

Gaunce and Gagner go on waivers, Archibald probably as well. Nilsson waived/claimed or traded. Think our lineups end up looking like this:

 

Loui Eriksson - Bo Horvat - Brock Boeser

Sven Baertschi - Elias Pettersson - Nikolay Goldobin

Brendan Leipsic - Brandon Sutter - Jake Virtanen

Granlund - Beagle - Antoine Roussel

Tim Schaller

Quinn Hughes/Derrick Pouliot - Chris Tanev

Alex Edler - Troy Stecher

Derrick Pouliot/Erik Gudbranson - Michael Del Zotto

Erik Gudbranson, Ben Hutton

Markstrom

Demko

 

And AHL:

 

Reid Boucher - Brendan Gaunce - Lukas Jasek

Jonathan Dahlén - Tanner Kero - Adam Gaudette

Carter Bancks - Wacey Hamilton - Tyler Motte

Tanner MacMaster - Joe Labate - Zack MacEwen

Michael Carcone, Alexis D'Aoust

 

Ashton Sautner - Guillaume Brisebois

Jalen Chatfield - Olli Juolevi

Alex Biega - Evan McEneny

Dylan Blujus

 

Richard Bachman

Ivan Kulbakov

Crazy MacEwen could be on our fourth line in Utica next year. Some serious depth down there, I think you're missing Lind, Gadjovich and potentially Palmu as well.

 

I really like the look of our forward groups, potential superstars and a lot of depth, grit and two way capability, lots of guys who can play anywhere from our first to fourth line, and if Hughes makes the team a potential back-end catalyst something we've lacked since Erhoff, gonna be an interesting and exciting year to watch.

 

I like the look of that EP line, Sven is no slouch in his own end and has shown high work ethic which would compliment the games of Goldy and EP quite well, all fairly good skaters and have offensive skill, used in the right situations that could definitely be a line where they all score 40-60 points

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, logic said:

Crazy MacEwen could be on our fourth line in Utica next year. Some serious depth down there, I think you're missing Gadjovich and potentially Palmu as well.

 

I really like the look of our forward groups, potential superstars and a lot of depth, grit and two way capability, lots of guys who can play anywhere from our first to fourth line, and if Hughes makes the team a potential back-end catalyst something we've lacked since Erhoff, gonna be an interesting and exciting year to watch.

 

I like the look of that EP line, Sven is no slouch in his own end and has shown high work ethic which would compliment the games of Goldy and EP quite well, all fairly good skaters and have offensive skill, used in the right situations that could definitely be a line where they all score 40-60 points

possibly missed the best player of them all in the AHL...Kole Lind

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, PhillipBlunt said:

I think those warning lights have had their bulbs changed a few times over already, with all the hand-wringing and anxiety from the local media.

Thank you I never mentioned OJ but another player I'm hearing crap about. The guys at 650 made mention before it he is a 5 / 6 guy and can make ?!?

 

OJ has had the luxury of the team being patient. Still foresee him as a top pair blue liner, someone who can be relied upon and probably add offense in the future. I assume because he hasn't played yet like say McAvoy ? 

 

Then he doesnt have potential ? Hes going to be solid and play a lot of important minutes. He's already been written off by some media lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Mike Vanderhoek said:

Curious to get the thoughts of others here, I hear daily on 650 ( I enjoy the Canucks coverage overall ) about a few things that grind my gears.

 

Jim Benning: it seems the consensus in the media? Is Benning will be on thin ice come the end of his current contract. We are hearing Benning needs Hughes, Boeser, and his other notable picks to reach max potential on sky high ceilings in order to save his job ?!?

 

I don't get it, am I one of the very few who sees with ownership in place the Benning/Linden regime here long term?

 

Benning has greatly improved the teams overall depth and quality of youth I just don't see how he'd be on a short leash.

 

Nikolay Goldobin: have heard more than a few times and again just now how little Goldobin is viewed even now how he is the Canucks reclamation project who maybe gets flipped for a 4th ir 5th round pick ?!? sorry what?

 

I mean the guy was a 1st round pick, has shown slick skill, speed, and finish. Has spent time in the organization learning the defensive side of the game as well. 22 years old and a scorer's touch that will need scoring. How is he a reclamation project?

 

If anything in a contract year, opportunity to play an offensive role, this reclamation project could pot 20 goals and make some defense look silly doing it. We saw flashes of this last year. Again, scratch my head when I hear project.

 

Logjam at forward? Defense?: one if the biggest ironies here is fans and media alike complain for years the prospect cupboard is bare, not enough players pushing for NHL jobs and the complaint once injuries hit that the Chaput's of the World get minutes.

 

Now the team has greater depth at all positions. Prospects knocking on the door and regulars and depth players under contract.

 

Some people keep sounding off about the team needing to trade out players because there is too many now especially at forward. Or on defense where will Hughes ir OJ fit. You dont go into camp with only enough bodies to fill roles and you certainly add veterans where you can in the event prospects cant make the jump.

 

Worst case is come the end of camp what? Biega, Gaunce go on Waivers ? nobody claims them because 30 other teams are trying to sneak their guys down too....

 

Like to hear others thoughts as maybe I'm out to lunch but seems there is a voice here that Benning is on thin ice, Goldobin is a project, and the team has too many potential NHL pieces on their roster.

Plus 10

We have more depth in prospects than ever before in the history of this organization and media and some fans have no patience to let the rebuild follow its natural course to completion. They have little understanding of what it takes to build a long term, stable team in the cap space and on the media side, NONE of them have any qualification to judge prospects and zero ability to run even a midget hockey team, much less an NHL one.

 

I don't see Benning or Linden in risk of being out, even if we miss the playoffs this year (I expect us to), I think Aqualini is excited about the talent level that is being assembled and that this year, we should start and see them coming together.

 

We have depth at all positions and camp will be a real battle to see who will stick and who gets sent down. We have the space to bury someone like Nilsson in Utica, if Demko shows that he's ready to challenge for number 1.

 

Doesn't matter how good these guys perform, people will still panic and freak out.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

2 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I'd move some guys around and keep Gaudette up, but I'd pretty much agree with the players you have on opening night, that I'd like to see anyway. I think this gives us two more balanced scoring lines with Loui to mentor EP40, and those two matchup lines would be tough to play against. 

 

Sven Baertschi - Bo Horvat - Brock Boeser

Loui Eriksson - Elias Pettersson - Nikolay Goldobin

Antoine Roussel - Brandon Sutter - Jake Virtanen

Tim Schaller - Beagle - Gaudette

Granlund

 

Alex Edler - Erik Gudbranson 

Quinn Hughes - Chris Tanev

Michael Del Zotto Troy Stecher

Ben Hutton - Juolevi

 

Markstrom

Demko

 

Apparently they are thinking Baertschi with Pettersson - see latest posts in thread 'Battle at camp' for more details.   Benning wants the scoring to come from the younger players - he says Horvat, Baertschi and the likes need to continue to get better.  

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, mll said:

 

 

Apparently they are thinking Baertschi with Pettersson - see latest posts in thread 'Battle at camp' for more details.   Benning wants the scoring to come from the younger players - he says Horvat, Baertschi and the likes need to continue to get better.  

 

Baer-EP-Eriksson could work. Maybe Bear-Sutter-EP with EP being worked in to taking face-offs as the year progresses if they think he's not ready as a C quite yet. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said:

or maybe Schaller for Goldy? I really want to see Loui with top 6 minutes and try to get real production out of him. 

What do you think about Jake instead of Goldy?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, thejazz97 said:

Gaunce and Gagner go on waivers, Archibald probably as well. Nilsson waived/claimed or traded. Think our lineups end up looking like this:

 

Loui Eriksson - Bo Horvat - Brock Boeser

Sven Baertschi - Elias Pettersson - Nikolay Goldobin

Brendan Leipsic - Brandon Sutter - Jake Virtanen

Granlund - Beagle - Antoine Roussel

Tim Schaller

Quinn Hughes/Derrick Pouliot - Chris Tanev

Alex Edler - Troy Stecher

Derrick Pouliot/Erik Gudbranson - Michael Del Zotto

Erik Gudbranson, Ben Hutton

Markstrom

Demko

 

And AHL:

 

Reid Boucher - Brendan Gaunce - Lukas Jasek

Jonathan Dahlén - Tanner Kero - Adam Gaudette

Carter Bancks - Wacey Hamilton - Tyler Motte

Tanner MacMaster - Joe Labate - Zack MacEwen

Michael Carcone, Alexis D'Aoust

 

Ashton Sautner - Guillaume Brisebois

Jalen Chatfield - Olli Juolevi

Alex Biega - Evan McEneny

Dylan Blujus

 

Richard Bachman

Ivan Kulbakov

I like your roster ...although I don't like Erikkson with Bo...

 

Here is Botchford's lineup and it looks good too:

 

POSSIBLE OPENING-NIGHT LINEUP

Forwards

Brendan Leipsic/Nikolay Goldobin-Bo Horvat/Brock Boeser

Sven Baertschi-Elias Pettersson-Loui Eriksson

Tim Schaller-Brandon Sutter-Jake Virtanen

Antoine Roussel-Jay Beagle-Markus Granlund/Sam Gagner

Defence

Alex Edler-Troy Stecher

Quinn Hughes-Chris Tanev

Michael Del Zotto-Erik Gudbranson

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Mike Vanderhoek said:

Curious to get the thoughts of others here, I hear daily on 650 ( I enjoy the Canucks coverage overall ) about a few things that grind my gears.

 

Jim Benning: it seems the consensus in the media? Is Benning will be on thin ice come the end of his current contract. We are hearing Benning needs Hughes, Boeser, and his other notable picks to reach max potential on sky high ceilings in order to save his job ?!?

 

I don't get it, am I one of the very few who sees with ownership in place the Benning/Linden regime here long term?

 

Benning has greatly improved the teams overall depth and quality of youth I just don't see how he'd be on a short leash.

 

Nikolay Goldobin: have heard more than a few times and again just now how little Goldobin is viewed even now how he is the Canucks reclamation project who maybe gets flipped for a 4th ir 5th round pick ?!? sorry what?

 

I mean the guy was a 1st round pick, has shown slick skill, speed, and finish. Has spent time in the organization learning the defensive side of the game as well. 22 years old and a scorer's touch that will need scoring. How is he a reclamation project?

 

If anything in a contract year, opportunity to play an offensive role, this reclamation project could pot 20 goals and make some defense look silly doing it. We saw flashes of this last year. Again, scratch my head when I hear project.

 

Logjam at forward? Defense?: one if the biggest ironies here is fans and media alike complain for years the prospect cupboard is bare, not enough players pushing for NHL jobs and the complaint once injuries hit that the Chaput's of the World get minutes.

 

Now the team has greater depth at all positions. Prospects knocking on the door and regulars and depth players under contract.

 

Some people keep sounding off about the team needing to trade out players because there is too many now especially at forward. Or on defense where will Hughes ir OJ fit. You dont go into camp with only enough bodies to fill roles and you certainly add veterans where you can in the event prospects cant make the jump.

 

Worst case is come the end of camp what? Biega, Gaunce go on Waivers ? nobody claims them because 30 other teams are trying to sneak their guys down too....

 

Like to hear others thoughts as maybe I'm out to lunch but seems there is a voice here that Benning is on thin ice, Goldobin is a project, and the team has too many potential NHL pieces on their roster.

???  What is wrong with your media?   They are idiots.    

 

There is no "logjam" of forwards.   This is what competition looks like.   You need more NHL calibre players than you have roster spots.   Perhaps they have not looked at other NHL teams for a while but you only get better through increments and that includes turnover.   Of course some players won't make the cut.   Of course some will get waived and perhaps someone might even pick them put BUT so what?    

 

I cannot understand how people can have a media job and talk about a sport but have not a clue how that sport works.   Baffles me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Rollieo Del Fuego said:

I like your roster ...although I don't like Erikkson with Bo...

 

Here is Botchford's lineup and it looks good too:

 

POSSIBLE OPENING-NIGHT LINEUP

Forwards

Brendan Leipsic/Nikolay Goldobin-Bo Horvat/Brock Boeser

Sven Baertschi-Elias Pettersson-Loui Eriksson

Tim Schaller-Brandon Sutter-Jake Virtanen

Antoine Roussel-Jay Beagle-Markus Granlund/Sam Gagner

Defence

Alex Edler-Troy Stecher

Quinn Hughes-Chris Tanev

Michael Del Zotto-Erik Gudbranson

Ugggh Botchturd :sick:

 

IMO he's got Schaller/Roussel flipped but that's largely where I'm at. I'd also have to assume we'd move a D if Hughes was in fact to make the team. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Step back and think about it for a second. He's not on thin ice. He has a job to do by the end of his contract.

 

Benning was extended for three seasons to continue the job of seeing this through. Although Benning was extended to continue "the plan", Linden did say that at some point the plan does come down to wins/putting people in seats. 

 

By the end of Benning's extension, it'll be seven years. That's long-term faith ownership has shown in this management to change the team.

 

So of course Benning will be on thin ice if things aren't turning around by the end of his contract. It doesn't take a genius or much mental horsepower to figure that out (yes, I'm looking at you media).

 

There won't be another extension contract under the mentality of "just give us another three years to see this through." Especially when by that time management will have been preaching patience for seven years.

 

The only way Benning gets extended is if we are indeed on the upswing, we've turned the corner, and the organization is seeing significant results/wins. Especially in the final year of his contract.

 

And sure, Benning does need his picks to work out. But just because they're not here now doesn't mean they won't work out. We've placed priority on drafting and developing, which takes time. 

 

Just think back to when there was so much concern and worry that Benning wasn't replacing the Sedins. Flash forward three years and we now have Boeser, with Petterssen on the way, Gaudette getting his shot, Dahlen in North America, with guys like Palmu, Jasek, and Lind knocking at the door.

 

And we also have Goldobin who, yes indeed is a project but will undoubtedly get his opportunity this season. 

 

The media is making this out to be a crisis when it just is.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

Step back and think about it for a second. He's not on thin ice. He has a job to do by the end of his contract.

 

Benning was extended for three seasons to continue the job of seeing this through. Although Benning was extended to continue "the plan", Linden did say that at some point the plan does come down to wins/putting people in seats. 

 

By the end of Benning's extension, it'll be seven years. That's long-term faith ownership has shown in this management to change the team.

 

So of course Benning will be on thin ice if things aren't turning around by the end of his contract. It doesn't take a genius or much mental horsepower to figure that out (yes, I'm looking at you media).

 

There won't be another extension contract under the mentality of "just give us another three years to see this through." Especially when by that time management will have been preaching patience for seven years.

 

The only way Benning gets extended is if we are indeed on the upswing, we've turned the corner, and the organization is seeing significant results/wins. Especially in the final year of his contract.

 

And sure, Benning does need his picks to work out. But just because they're not here now doesn't mean they won't work out. We've placed priority on drafting and developing, which takes time. 

 

Just think back to when there was so much concern and worry that Benning wasn't replacing the Sedins. Flash forward three years and we now have Boeser, with Petterssen on the way, Gaudette getting his shot, Dahlen in North America, with guys like Palmu, Jasek, and Lind knocking at the door.

 

And we also have Goldobin who, yes indeed is a project but will undoubtedly get his opportunity this season. 

 

The media is making this out to be a crisis when it just is.

 

 

 

As long as we look more like COL last season in year 2 or 3 of his current extension, than COL 2 years ago in year 2 or 3, he's fine IMO.

 

Call that whatever kind of 'ice' you like.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

I think those warning lights have had their bulbs changed a few times over already, with all the hand-wringing and anxiety from the local media.

If it's a toss-up between Hutton/Stecher/Biega and Juolevi, I think we just have to go with Juolevi right now.

 

Give him at least 9 games. We have to see what we've got to work with. And the other guys have already gotten a year or more in the NHL. Let him show us what he brings to the team.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, jmahyoung said:

If it's a toss-up between Hutton/Stecher/Biega and Juolevi, I think we just have to go with Juolevi right now.

 

Give him at least 9 games. We have to see what we've got to work with. And the other guys have already gotten a year or more in the NHL. Let him show us what he brings to the team.

He clearly has the highest ceiling out of the four players. I think Juolevi will make enough of an impression this fall that he'll put the doubters to rest, well most of them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...