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[Proposal] Acquiring Nylander


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16 hours ago, Alflives said:

We already have Baer and Goldy; we don’t need WM.  Don’t get caught up in the TSN hype propaganda machine. 

He is a very good player.  Better than Baer and Goldy.  I watched a ton of Leafs games last year and I would love him on the Canucks.  If you want a direct comparison from the Canucks, he is Mason Raymond x Jonathan Dahlen.  Soft as better though.  Still, worth pursuing, for the right price.

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40 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Soft perimeter players, who do nothing when the game becomes harder, are a dime a dozen.  That's why the Leafs will not pay WM the 6 (or more) million per season he's asking for.  Guys like Kadri, Marner, and Matthews are actually the key forwards on the Leafs.  (They have other forwards too, who play harder minutes and don't get paid too much)  I'm sure the Leafs have been shopping WM too, but there are no takers.  There are no takers because every team already has one or tow WM's, so they don't need another one.  WM is going to eat salary cap dollars, which will actually hurt a team (like the Leafs) from bringing in top checking players, that are needed to win Cups.  

I’m not advocating trading for Nylander. But nothing  you just said has anything to do with my criticism of your post.  You saying Vancouver doesn’t need Nylander because the Canucks already have Goldobin and Baertschi is the issue. Those two Canucks simply arent at the same level as Nylander.  

 

It would be like me saying Montreal wouldn’t need Boeser because they have Hudon and Lehkonen. Both statements are just asinine 

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18 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

I’m not advocating trading for Nylander. But nothing  you just said has anything to do with my criticism of your post.  You saying Vancouver doesn’t need Nylander because the Canucks already have Goldobin and Baertschi is the issue. Those two Canucks simply arent at the same level as Nylander.  

 

It would be like me saying Montreal wouldn’t need Boeser because they have Hudon and Lehkonen. Both statements are just asinine 

Well, in your opinion (and this is an opinion board, and a Canuck's one too) that's your belief.  However, I know there is a lot more to the value of a player than the points they produce.  Goldy and Baer are very similar to WM.  They are both soft, easy to play against perimeter players, who (when not producing points) hurt their teams.  WM is exactly this type of player.  In evidence, watch WM play, and that's why the Leafs refuse to pay him big dollars.  He's not worth the Cap hit.  He should be paid around what Baer gets.  Same value of player.

Leaf's fan on our Canuck's board?  It's okay, you guys have a good team now (I hate the Leafs BTW) and deserve to stand up for your players.  

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48 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Well, in your opinion (and this is an opinion board, and a Canuck's one too) that's your belief.  However, I know there is a lot more to the value of a player than the points they produce.  Goldy and Baer are very similar to WM.  They are both soft, easy to play against perimeter players, who (when not producing points) hurt their teams.  WM is exactly this type of player.  In evidence, watch WM play, and that's why the Leafs refuse to pay him big dollars.  He's not worth the Cap hit.  He should be paid around what Baer gets.  Same value of player.

Leaf's fan on our Canuck's board?  It's okay, you guys have a good team now (I hate the Leafs BTW) and deserve to stand up for your players.  

I’m not a leafs fan.  Hate them. It still doesn’t make your argument valid.  The Canucks had one of the most anemic offences in the league last year.  A player that puts up .75 points a game is far more valuable than one that one that plays the same game but puts up significantly fewer points.  

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2 hours ago, Alflives said:

Well, in your opinion (and this is an opinion board, and a Canuck's one too) that's your belief.  However, I know there is a lot more to the value of a player than the points they produce.  Goldy and Baer are very similar to WM.  They are both soft, easy to play against perimeter players, who (when not producing points) hurt their teams.  WM is exactly this type of player.  In evidence, watch WM play, and that's why the Leafs refuse to pay him big dollars.  He's not worth the Cap hit.  He should be paid around what Baer gets.  Same value of player.

Leaf's fan on our Canuck's board?  It's okay, you guys have a good team now (I hate the Leafs BTW) and deserve to stand up for your players.  

Baer does not hurt this team when he is not producing. Just cause he doesn't hit does not mean he is not a presence when not scoring.

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18 hours ago, Alflives said:

Well, in your opinion (and this is an opinion board, and a Canuck's one too) that's your belief.  However, I know there is a lot more to the value of a player than the points they produce.  Goldy and Baer are very similar to WM.  They are both soft, easy to play against perimeter players, who (when not producing points) hurt their teams.  WM is exactly this type of player.  In evidence, watch WM play, and that's why the Leafs refuse to pay him big dollars.  He's not worth the Cap hit.  He should be paid around what Baer gets.  Same value of player.

Leaf's fan on our Canuck's board?  It's okay, you guys have a good team now (I hate the Leafs BTW) and deserve to stand up for your players.  

I hate the Leafs, but what you are saying about Nylander being worth the same dollars as Baertschi is ludicrous.

Goals and offence are the hardest things to come by in the league, and Nylander is really good at that.

The only issue is that Toronto has a cap issue looming.  Nylander’s agent wants him paid at a level assuming he keeps progressing, and the team wants to pay for current performance level and maybe even less to save money for other players.

Every GM watched Yzerman and figures they can play hardball with star players and win.  That is not always the case.

I expect Nylander will end up signing a bridge deal and be wearing the reviled blue and white... and I expect him to continue to be one of the best young players in the game.

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21 minutes ago, guntrix said:

Acquiring a young top-6 player like Nylander would accelerate our rebuild tenfold. If there were ever a realistic opportunity to do so, I'm sure Benning would't hesitate to get him, no matter how insecure some people may be about the 2014 draft. 

Not wanting WM has nothing to do with the 2014 draft.  He's not the kind of player teams win Cups with.  He does a disappearing act in hard games, like the playoffs.  The same goes for another loved 2014 drafted player - Nick Ehlers.  We want to win a Cup, or several Cups with our next group.  Guys like WM and Baer and Goldy won't be on Cup winning teams - ever.  These soft perimeter players would need to put up 80 points and more, plus be ppg guys in the playoffs to be useful to help a team win Cups.  Again, these players hurt their teams on the defensive side of the puck.  They must score, or they are dead Cap space.

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On 8/27/2018 at 9:32 AM, Alflives said:

Nylander (Double Flamingo) is not a player that a team wins playoff rounds with.  He’s much like Ehlers that way.  When the going gets tough, those to disappear.  

The only Leaf I would truly want is Marner.  Matthews will be way overpaid.  

Using your pissant sample size here, I can now say nobody on the Canucks will ever win a playoff round. 

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1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Not wanting WM has nothing to do with the 2014 draft.  He's not the kind of player teams win Cups with.  He does a disappearing act in hard games, like the playoffs.  The same goes for another loved 2014 drafted player - Nick Ehlers.  We want to win a Cup, or several Cups with our next group.  Guys like WM and Baer and Goldy won't be on Cup winning teams - ever.  These soft perimeter players would need to put up 80 points and more, plus be ppg guys in the playoffs to be useful to help a team win Cups.  Again, these players hurt their teams on the defensive side of the puck.  They must score, or they are dead Cap space.

You keep saying he disappears in hard games.  His PPG totals in the playoffs are only a little less than in the regular season.  Playoffs are tighter and have fewer goals overall, so the trend for everyone is to have a slight drop off.  

He has performed fine so far in his playoff career even though it is a small sample size. 

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3 hours ago, Alflives said:

How many players, who want big dollars, have you ever seen do a double flamingo, like Nylander?  

So you are saying his entire career should be judged based on one unflattering moment in his rookie season? You live and you learn from your mistakes Alf. 

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6 hours ago, Alflives said:

Not wanting WM has nothing to do with the 2014 draft.  He's not the kind of player teams win Cups with.  He does a disappearing act in hard games, like the playoffs.  The same goes for another loved 2014 drafted player - Nick Ehlers.  We want to win a Cup, or several Cups with our next group.  Guys like WM and Baer and Goldy won't be on Cup winning teams - ever.  These soft perimeter players would need to put up 80 points and more, plus be ppg guys in the playoffs to be useful to help a team win Cups.  Again, these players hurt their teams on the defensive side of the puck.  They must score, or they are dead Cap space.

He actually has 4 points in 6 games in 16-17 and 4 points in 7 games in 17-18. Pretty respectable numbers for a young player...

 

In other words, even your attempt at slapping a label on him based on 13 games failed. 

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17 hours ago, Alflives said:

Not wanting WM has nothing to do with the 2014 draft.  He's not the kind of player teams win Cups with.  He does a disappearing act in hard games, like the playoffs.  The same goes for another loved 2014 drafted player - Nick Ehlers.  We want to win a Cup, or several Cups with our next group.  Guys like WM and Baer and Goldy won't be on Cup winning teams - ever.  These soft perimeter players would need to put up 80 points and more, plus be ppg guys in the playoffs to be useful to help a team win Cups.  Again, these players hurt their teams on the defensive side of the puck.  They must score, or they are dead Cap space.

He's 22, you say this as if he'll never be anything more than what he is now (and his playoff numbers aren't even bad they are roughly where his regular season numbers are. Lol). And lets be real, Nylander would not be the vocal point of this team in the playoffs. Bo, Boeser and Pettersson will be. Kessel wasn't a guy you win playoff games with as your main guy, but as a secondary piece in Pittsburgh he looks like a god. Same thing could happen here with Nylander. Nylander can help this team get to the playoffs, then in the playoffs is a good secondary weapon behind Bo, Boeser, and/or Pettersson ala Phil Kessel.

 

This second bolded part isn't necessarily true either. Nylander's defensive point shares is 2.1. Wanna know what Horvat's defensive point shares are? 1.5. Sure you can say that's all cause of Matthews, but Matthews missed 20 games and Nylander maintained that 2.1. I'll be honest, I don't watch a ton of Maple Leafs' games but something tells me you don't either. So to say he hurts his team defensively is an overreach. If not that at least is not 100% truthful cause you likely have no idea how good or bad he is defensively.

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2 hours ago, N7Nucks said:

He's 22, you say this as if he'll never be anything more than what he is now (and his playoff numbers aren't even bad they are roughly where his regular season numbers are. Lol). And lets be real, Nylander would not be the vocal point of this team in the playoffs. Bo, Boeser and Pettersson will be. Kessel wasn't a guy you win playoff games with as your main guy, but as a secondary piece in Pittsburgh he looks like a god. Same thing could happen here with Nylander. Nylander can help this team get to the playoffs, then in the playoffs is a good secondary weapon behind Bo, Boeser, and/or Pettersson ala Phil Kessel.

 

This second bolded part isn't necessarily true either. Nylander's defensive point shares is 2.1. Wanna know what Horvat's defensive point shares are? 1.5. Sure you can say that's all cause of Matthews, but Matthews missed 20 games and Nylander maintained that 2.1. I'll be honest, I don't watch a ton of Maple Leafs' games but something tells me you don't either. So to say he hurts his team defensively is an overreach. If not that at least is not 100% truthful cause you likely have no idea how good or bad he is defensively.

It’s way too early to judge Nylander but if you had to he’s already considered a top winger in this league and is going to get paid like one (which is good for all of us that aren’t TO fans), add Mathews, Marner (who is an incredible talent, a winger that can drive the play on a line like Panarin) and Tavares and they could end up the most top heavy team in the league by the end of the season.  Fans their are planning the parade, more optimistic than since 1967, and Nylander is part of the reason for it.  Statistically he’s better than all of the Canucks with the exception of Boeser, yet some on this site have written him off...he’d be a top winger on this team and if Benning could off load one of our prospects and a pick why not?

 

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8 minutes ago, IBatch said:

It’s way too early to judge Nylander but if you had to he’s already considered a top winger in this league and is going to get paid like one (which is good for all of us that aren’t TO fans), add Mathews, Marner (who is an incredible talent, a winger that can drive the play on a line like Panarin) and Tavares and they could end up the most top heavy team in the league by the end of the season.  Fans their are planning the parade, more optimistic than since 1967, and Nylander is part of the reason for it.  Statistically he’s better than all of the Canucks with the exception of Boeser, yet some on this site have written him off...he’d be a top winger on this team and if Benning could off load one of our prospects and a pick why not?

 

It's true, he's a very good young talent and he'd be the 2nd or 3rd best player on this team. I dunno why I continue to respond to people like Alf about Nylander, but I can't help it. The downplaying of Nylander by some here is so weird to me. Nylander would be a welcome addition to our team by me if it doesn't cost us Bo, Boeser, Pettersson or Hughes.

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21 hours ago, Alflives said:

Not wanting WM has nothing to do with the 2014 draft.  He's not the kind of player teams win Cups with.  He does a disappearing act in hard games, like the playoffs.  The same goes for another loved 2014 drafted player - Nick Ehlers.  We want to win a Cup, or several Cups with our next group.  Guys like WM and Baer and Goldy won't be on Cup winning teams - ever.  These soft perimeter players would need to put up 80 points and more, plus be ppg guys in the playoffs to be useful to help a team win Cups.  Again, these players hurt their teams on the defensive side of the puck.  They must score, or they are dead Cap space.

Look At Lairs Eller who was traded from Montreal , he was soft as butter until he developed and now has a Stanley Cup a 20 year old has a different mind set than a 29 year old 18 points in 24 games . Nylander could be a 30 / 40  player  70 to 80 points.

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1 hour ago, N7Nucks said:

It's true, he's a very good young talent and he'd be the 2nd or 3rd best player on this team. I dunno why I continue to respond to people like Alf about Nylander, but I can't help it. The downplaying of Nylander by some here is so weird to me. Nylander would be a welcome addition to our team by me if it doesn't cost us Bo, Boeser, Pettersson or Hughes.

That’s right...until he’s signed 30 other teams fans will wonder if they could make a trade for him, if money is an issue which it always is, then it is possible that TO makes a trade for someone that has a lot of promise and will he’ll their cap issues, I’d say a defenseman makes the most sense for them as they do have more in the pipe in Johnson (their AHL hero) and who can slide right into their top six. They say they want to keep Nylander maybe he sings soon...

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