The Case of the Missing Saudi Journalist

[DonLever]

From CNN:

 

https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/10/middleeast/jamal-khashoggi-disappearance-investigation-intl/index.html

 

(CNN)  A little over a week ago, a prominent Saudi journalist walked into the consulate general in Istanbul, intending to get paperwork that would allow him to marry his Turkish fiancée. She hasn't seen him since.

 

Since then, officials and journalists have scrambled to piece together the story of what happened to Jamal Khashoggi, a former Saudi royal insider who became a critic of the regime of Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman.

 

Turkish authorities have privately said they believe Khashoggi was killed inside the consulate, a startling allegation that is firmly denied by the Saudis. Closed-circuit television footage, flight trackers, intercepted communications and even rumors of a bone saw have served as pieces of a puzzle that has spurred a diplomatic outcry.

 

In the latest developments on Wednesday, Turkish security officials concluded that the "highest levels of the royal court" in Saudi Arabia ordered the assassination of Khashoggi, according to a senior official cited by The New York Times.

 

Turkish officials have said that a 15-person team flew from Saudi Arabia into Istanbul on the day Khashoggi entered the consulate, and they have provided information about two private planes that, they say, were involved in the transit of these Saudis. Aviation data analyzed by CNN backs up evidence of the planes' arrival in Istanbul.

 

The official quoted by the New York Times described the operation as "quick and complex," and that Khashoggi was killed within two hours of his arrival at the consulate. The agents "dismembered his body with a bone saw they brought for the purpose," the official told The New York Times. "It's like 'Pulp Fiction,'" he added.

 

Turkish officials have said that a 15-person team flew from Saudi Arabia into Istanbul on the day Khashoggi entered the consulate, and they have provided information about two private planes that, they say, were involved in the transit of these Saudis. Aviation data analyzed by CNN backs up evidence of the planes' arrival in Istanbul.

 

 

The official quoted by the New York Times described the operation as "quick and complex," and that Khashoggi was killed within two hours of his arrival at the consulate. The agents "dismembered his body with a bone saw they brought for the purpose," the official told The New York Times. "It's like 'Pulp Fiction,'" he added.

 

 

Saudi Arabia has repeatedly denied Turkey's account of the story, saying that Khashoggi left the embassy on the same day he arrived.

In a statement to CNN on Wednesday, a Saudi official said the kingdom "categorically" denies "any involvement in Jamal's disappearance."

"At this stage, our priority is to support the investigation, as opposed to responding to evolving comments not directly related to those efforts. Jamal's well-being, as a Saudi citizen, is our utmost concern and we are focusing on the investigation as a means to reveal the truth behind his disappearance. Our sympathies go out to the family during this difficult time," the official said.

 

But Turkish officials have repeatedly suggested that Khashoggi has been killed. A friend of the journalist, Turan Kislakci, who is also the head of the Turkish-Arab Media Association, told CNN that Turkish officials called him and "offered their condolences and told us to be ready for a funeral."

On Wednesday, a senior Turkish official speaking on the condition of anonymity told CNN that "the Saudis are not cooperating fully with the investigation. They are not open to cooperating."

 

In addition, Saudi authorities have asked Turkish authorities to postpone the search of their consulate in Istanbul, Turkey's pro-government daily Yeni Safak reported, citing anonymous security sources. The newspaper report did not mention a reason for the Saudis' request.

 

Saudi Arabia had earlier said it would allow Turkish authorities to search the consulate on the request of the Turkish Foreign Ministry, the newspaper said.

 

CNN reached out to the Saudi consulate in Istanbul by phone for comment. The person who answered the phone said that "the Saudi consulate does not have a comment" on the request for a delay, and hung up.

 

US officials are also attempting to piece together what happened, in particular whether any operation to silence Khashoggi was ordered at the highest levels of the Saudi government, including bin Salman.

 

One US official told CNN that the US is examining communications intercepts to see if it can learn any more about what may have happened.

 

US officials think it's possible the crown prince wanted Khashoggi silenced, but miscalculated the global impact his disappearance would have.

 

The Washington Post -- for which Khashoggi wrote critical columns -- said US intelligence intercepted communications of Saudi officials discussing a plan to capture the journalist. Citing a person familiar with the information, the Post said the Saudis wanted to lure Khashoggi back to Saudi Arabia and lay hands on him there.

It was not clear whether the Saudis intended to arrest and interrogate Khashoggi or to kill him, or if the United States warned Khashoggi that he was a target, the source told the Post.

[DonLever]

You don't need to be Columbo to figure out something bad happened to journalist Jamal Khashoggi.

[HerrDrFunk]

Meanwhile the WWE is all like "You want to give us all the money? Let's do ANOTHER show for the Saudi government! Want us to dig up Yokozuna too?".

[CBH1926]

It is hard to believe that Saudis would engage in political assassinations. 

[Nuxfanabroad]

As such sensationalist(& horrific) headlines seemingly go exponential, people will likely become more desensitized & immune to effects.

 

To me it's further indication that a multi-polar world is quickly becoming reality.

 

No longer can one country(or Empire) lay down the law, in accordance to it's own values.. & increasingly the MSM will be depended upon(by BIG Guv) to hopefully keep the masses in agreement.

[DADDYROCK]

Ladies and Gentlemen be very thankful you are not living in some of these countries,it would be like talking bad about the Canucks and you just disappear.

It is scary when you read stuff like this and it is happening half way around the planet never mind in your home country.

 

 

Most of us were lucky enough to be born in the right gene pool at the right time.

Canada is a great country and i hope it stays that way,

 

I AM CANADIAN,PEACE EVERYBODY!

[Nuxfanabroad]

1 minute ago, DADDYROCK said:

Ladies and Gentlemen be very thankful you are not living in some of these countries,it would be like talking bad about the Canucks and you just disappear.

It is scary when you read stuff like this and it is happening half way around the planet never mind in your home country.

 

 

Most of us were lucky enough to be born in the right gene pool at the right time.

Canada is a great country and i hope it stays that way,

 

I AM CANADIAN,PEACE EVERYBODY!

Always hear this. Trouble is, I remember the bloodyUtopia Van was in the late 70's.

 

Then as a society unravels, the filthy, duplicitous media will be comparing your lot to the starving family in a Somalian mud hut. It's an age-old game(and/or psychological ploy) to make one(or, a society) feel good about themselves.

 

My Old man bought a place/property in White Rock for about 30 grand(perhaps it was a coupla' yrs work, to pay for?..even got some Gov't subsidy, as a young fam buyer!). Wonder what that same place costs nowadays?

 

All comparisons are subjective, & often evasive.

[Ryan Strome]

1 minute ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Always hear this. Trouble is, I remember the bloodyUtopia Van was in the late 70's.

 

Then as a society unravels, the filthy, duplicitous media will be comparing your lot to the starving family in a Somalian mud hut. It's an age-old game(and/or psychological ploy) to make one(or, a society) feel good about themselves.

 

My Old man bought a place/property in White Rock for about 30 grand(perhaps it was a coupla' yrs work, to pay for?..even got some Gov't subsidy, as a young fam buyer!). Wonder what that same place costs nowadays?

 

All comparisons are subjective, & often evasive.

1,000,000,000,000,00

[Warhippy]

Have been following this pretty closely actually

 

The person missing has been a loud and vocal opponent of the Suadi government.  Added the marriage to a turkish woman, cross religious sect relationships are seriously frowned on.

 

he DID enter the embassy.  Reports claim men ushered out a large package taking 3 people to push in to a van which sped off.  Turkish authorities are looking for and demanding video evidence of all exits and entrances as well as scouring local areas, but the Saudi embassy have been very very slow to release video evidence in regards to their ingress/egress points and simply state he walked out, he left obviously he's ok.

 

This would not be the first time in history the house of Saud has silenced voices that have spoken against them.  But to do it IN an embassy in a foreign country would take serious stones.

 

Turkey teeters on an edge between outright hostilities with numerous nations and a desire to snub the US regime while allowing Erdogan to flex his authority.

 

This has all the hallmarks of one of those historical "well you screwed this all up didn't you" moments 

[nuckin_futz]

Though it won't happen in our lifetime's I look forward to the day when there isn't a single drop of oil in Saudi Arabia and they return to the penniless sh**hole they were before. What a vile waste of space.

[Ryan Strome]

9 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

Though it won't happen in our lifetime's I look forward to the day when there isn't a single drop of oil in Saudi Arabia and they return to the penniless sh**hole they were before. What a vile waste of space.

I never push for war but that dump would be the first one that should be attacked. 

[nuckin_futz]

Just now, Ryan Strome said:

I never push for war but that dump would be the first one that should be attacked. 

Fat chance of that now that they're armed to the teeth with all the latest weaponry.

 

Maybe the new women drivers can take some of them out.  <------------- sarcasm

[Lancaster]

58 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

Fat chance of that now that they're armed to the teeth with all the latest weaponry.

 

Maybe the new women drivers can take some of them out.  <------------- sarcasm

Fortunately, there's a history of Arab armies being incompetent regardless of the amount of high tech weaponry they have.  The Gulf War, Iraq War, Iran-Iraq War, the multiple Israeli conflicts, the battles in Yemen, etc.  

 

 

In regards to this case.... there's a very simple solution for the Saudi if they want to prove their innocence.... just release footage of the guy leaving the premises.  This is a consulate, so it's likely there should be video everywhere.  If there's none, it's very plainly obvious what happened.  A person just doesn't enter a room and magically disappear like a spirit or djinni....  oh wait... the Saudi still believe in the existence of black magic and witchcraft....

[Ryan Strome]

1 hour ago, nuckin_futz said:

Fat chance of that now that they're armed to the teeth with all the latest weaponry.

 

Maybe the new women drivers can take some of them out.  <------------- sarcasm

Yup, pretty sad that Trumps first foreign visit was to Arabia to sell that useless regime more weapons. I would like to see Canada and other nations slap sactions on Arabia so the US could stand alone in their defense of the most repressive nation on earth.

[*Buzzsaw*]

Here are the facts:

 

-  Both Saudi Arabia and Turkey are predominantly Sunni Muslim... they have that in common.  Turkey is theoretically secular, but Erdogan is religious and has been pushing through reforms to make the state recognize the Muslim religion as a more important part of the state.  Many think he wants to return to some form of Sharia law based system.  Saudi is hardcore Salafist... like fundamentalists everywhere, they don't tolerate any differences.... but still religion is secondary to power and keeping it.

 

-  Saudi is an absolute monarchy... completely corrupt and ruled by a narrow elite.  Recently the old king died, and his brother took the reins... also very old.  The real power is the Crown Prince who wants to 'reform' i.e. make superficial changes which make the country more westernized without the ruling family giving up any power.  The Crown Prince, (Bin Salman) is quite clearly an impulsive and angry young man and is ready to kill anyone who gets in the way of his ambitions.

 

-  Turkey is a 'democracy'.... used to be run by the military, but they backed off about 20 years ago and allowed elections.  Erdogan hates the military.  He got himself elected and since then has been concentrating power in his hands and reducing the power of the Military but at the same time also eroding democratic institutions.  Still he keeps getting more than 50% of the vote and the majority of the population supports him.  Meanwhile Erdogan and his family have been enriching themselves... some of this came out and a couple years ago there was an attempted coup by the remnants of the military who wanted him replaced... was suppressed and Erdogan has been purging the military and judiciary since and putting his own people in power.  Also restricts the press and free discussion on the internet.  But does seem to believe at least to a certain extent in democracy.

 

Turkey and Saudi have some interests in common:

 

-  They both support the rebels in Syria... they don't like Assad.  Saudi doesn't like him because he is Alawite/Shia and therefore in their nasty fundamentalist minds a heretic and someone who should die... Assad also associates with and gets the support of Iran, the biggest Shia country in the world and therefore their sworn enemy.  The animosity between Shia and Sunni is greater now than between Arabs and Israel.  Turkey supports the rebels because Erdogan doesn't like the fact Assad is a mass murderer of Sunni Muslims... and also because Assad's actions are causing huge numbers of refugees to flee to Turkey, overloading the social safety net, and causing lots of problems.

 

Turkey and Saudi have many more conflicting interests:

 

-  Turkey supported former Egyptian President Morsi, who was a Sunni and a limited democrat along the lines of Erdogan.  Morsi was overthrown by General Sisi, who had the backing of Saudi.  Now current President Sisi is an out and out dictator who has murdered thousands and imprisoned more.  Saudi subsidizes Egypt's military.

 

-  Erdogan doesn't like Israel's meddling in Lebanon and Syria, and especially doesn't like the fact Gaza is the biggest open air prison in the world with thousands of Palestinians killed every year by Israeli bombing and snipers.  A non govermental Turkish aid ship carrying medical supplies to Gaza about 5 years ago was violently boarded by Israeli commandos and 10+ Turks were killed... the ship was seized.  Erdogan was very upset at this as the ship was in international waters and not carrying weapons.  Prior to this, Israel and Turkey were on relatively good terms... now not so good.  Saudi has made a deal with Trump and Trump's little doggy Kushner to privately not cause any problems with Israel, to align with them against Iran.  Saudi wants Israel to bomb Iran, that way they think they don't risk anything themselves...  Israel would be happy to bomb Iran, but is hesitating for two reasons... 1)  they haven't gotten all the new F-35 jets the US is giving them for free with their Congressional subsidies and 2) the US hasn't given them permission YET.... Trump wants to give the green light, but the boss of the US Department of Defense, Jim Mattis, an ex-Marine General who commanded in Iraq and Afghanistan and who knows something about messy wars, doesn't think this war is a good idea.  So far Trump is listening to him.  A war with Iran would close down the straits of Hormuz, the major world route for oil exports from Saudi Arabia and Iraq.  It would be a much bigger $&!#storm than the war with Iraq George Bush launched.  Iran is a much more powerful country, with a population 5 times the size of Iraq and Russia ready to sell them lots of weapons to keep them going.  If Iran is attacked, then the fundamentalists there will get the upper hand and the reformers will all be thrown in jail.

 

-  As part of the quid pro quo of Saudi supporting Israel, they got the green light from the US to attack Yemen and the Shia Houthi Rebels there, who again in Saudi minds, are heretics and worthy of instant death.  In fact, thousands of Houthi civilians have already been killed by Saudi's indescriminate bombing.  And millions more are in danger of dying of famine, as Saudi backed troops are about to seize the only remaining Houthi port... the port which allows food and relief supplies to enter the country.  Without those supplies, the existing moderate famine will intensify.  iran of course, is supporting the rebels because they are Shia.

 

-  The State of Quatar is a small Gulf State nation which is also run by Aristocrats, but it is much more liberal and has not hesitated to criticize Saudi and the Crown Prince.  This infuriated the Crown Prince.  (he doesn't take criticism well... a few months ago Canada criticized some of his actions and he immediately shut down our embassy and cut economic ties... something which actually did Saudi more harm than Canada)  As a result of Quatar's criticism of the Crown Prince, he lost his temper again, Saudi and the rest of the Gulf States imposed an economic blockade on Quatar, and actually planned on invading it.... but this was stopped by the fact Turkey has a cooperation agreement with Quatar, and has placed several Turkish Army units in the country.  This annoyed Crown Prince Bin Salman immensely... the invasion would have been a cakewalk as Quatar is a very small country with tiny armed forces.  But he doesn't want to risk war with Turkey which has a very large tough army.

 

So when it comes to this poor Saudi dissident.... just more of the same.  The Crown Prince doesn't take criticism well, he lost his temper and decided to get rid of him... and also to say "F*ck You" to Turkey by murdering him in their Turkish consulate.

 

Saudi Arabia is one of the worst regimes in the world, and yet the West sucks up to it because of the wealth and oil.  And now it has a hot headed and irrational young Prince running it who seems to want to pick fights with everyone.

[Kragar]

14 hours ago, DonLever said:

You don't need to be Columbo to figure out something bad happened to journalist Jamal Khashoggi.

Just one more thing...

 

I wonder what the Saudi's luggage weighed, between arrival and departure.

[nuckin_futz]

Turkey says has audio, video recording proving Khashoggi killed in Saudi consulate

Fri 12 Oct 2018 00:00:07 GMT

 

Washington Post citing U.S. and Turkish officials.

The Turkish government has told U.S. officials that it has audio and video recordings that prove Washington Post columnist Jamal Khashoggi was killed inside the Saudi consulate in Istanbul this month

 

• "The voice recording from inside the embassy lays out what happened to Jamal after he entered," said one person with knowledge of the recording  … spoke on the condition of anonymity
• "You can hear his voice and the voices of men speaking Arabic," this person said. "You can hear how he was interrogated, tortured and then murdered."

 

https://www.forexlive.com/news/!/turkey-says-has-audio-video-recording-proving-khashoggi-killed-in-saudi-consulate-20181012

 

***************************************

 

Really hope Mohammad bin Scumbag doesn't get away with this.

 

 

[RUPERTKBD]

@*Buzzsaw*: Nice summation. The proxy war in Yemen is one thing that really shows Bone Spurs' true colors in my view. We all saw the crocodile tears when children were murdered by Assad, but he's been dead silent on the deaths of innocent Yemenis. (We also remember the lack of compassion Trump displayed when his own administration was separating families at the US southern border)

 

The US response to the disappearance of Kashoggi has been similar to their reaction to the allegations against Brett Kavanagh: "Until we see conclusive proof of malfeasance, we're sticking with our guy."

 

Steve Mnuchin is on record, saying that he plans to attend an upcoming investment conference in Riyadh: https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/12/politics/mnuchin-imf-meeting-saudi-trip/index.html

 

The one thing I believe you can count on with the Trump administration is that they'll always make decisions based on how they affect the US financially. All other considerations, (eg human rights, environment, global stability) will always be secondary. (or tertiary)

 

BTW, @*Buzzsaw* No "u" in Qatar.

 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

Anybody thinks "the world" will doing anything substantial even if the worst actually occured?  I don't.

 

This is the SAME country that raised @#$Q#$ over Canada on a simple tweet - and the world did sweet @#$#@$ all for us.

 

[Toews]

14 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Anybody thinks "the world" will doing anything substantial even if the worst actually occured?  I don't.

 

This is the SAME country that raised @#$Q#$ over Canada on a simple tweet - and the world did sweet @#$#@$ all for us.

 

No they won't but there is a difference. It's much harder to ignore crazy when it happens in your country. This incident certainly gave everyone pause as far as what is happening at their Saudi consulate. Is it likely that Saudi Arabia would send a 15 person team to their country in order to interrogate, torture, murder and dismember a dissident?