[Proposals] 3 trades and a UFA and out!

[J.I.A.H.N]

After watching Vancouver - Wash game, it became obvious we are short on a few thing,,,,,no kidding

 

Dante Fabbro                TDL  -  Baertschi 50% + Gudbranson 50%  for  Fabbro + plug...……............…........(Nash)…….Fabbro great Offensive player, stuck behind the big 4

2019 1st - top 5             Draft -  Elite player...……………………………………………………………............….(Van)………Which would be a NHL ready type player

2019 extra 1st               TDL  -. Tanev to Dallas for 2019-1st (26th OA)+ 2019 2nd  57th OA) (pure picks......(Dallas)……Future Biilding blocks (2)

2019 extra 1st               TDL  -  Edler + *conditional 2020 2nd to Florida for 2019 1st  (12OA to 18OA)..........(Florida)…...Future building block...we resign Edler

Vancouver's 2nd           Draft -  Solid pick.. (36 Pick OA)………………………………………………..................(Van)……...This will be a falling first

Conditional 2020 1st     Draft -  Return estimated 18 OA to  24 OA...................................................................(Van)...........Risky and 

MDZ..............................TDL  -  brings a 2019 5th

Pouliot...........................TDL  -  brings a 2019 3rd

 

Now, we pick up Edler in the Summer....no loss

Tanev gets moved and we replace with a stop gap veteran in summer

Baertschi is one of many LW, and has obtained his ceiling...time to cut bait

Gunbranson is no loose and when Tryamkin comes back, we are better off

MDZ......................was spare parts

 

Our draft at home is incredible

 

Fabbro

Van 2019 1st - 6 OA

Flo 2019 1st - (12 to 18) OA

Dallas 2019 1st - (16 to 26)

Conditional Van 2020 1st (18th - 24th OA)

Van 2019 2nd - 37 OA

Dallas 2019 2nd - 57 OA

Vancouver 2019 3rd - 68TH OA

Pouliot  2019 3rd - 88 th OA

Vancouver's 2019 4th - 99th OA

Vancouver's 2019 5th - 156st OA

Vancouver's 2019 6th - 187OA

Misc,........ 2019 6th - 212nd OA

Vancouver.2019 7th - 217th  OA

 

This is the final year to make moves.......................all in.

 

 

 

[-AJ-]

The timing is wrong to dump all our vets imo. We're ready to start getting better next year, not continuing being bottom feeders. At this point, we're at the "wait for acquired prospects to grow" stage and past the "dump everyone older than 24" stage. 

[JeremyCuddles]

6 points in 9 games for Baer cheese and we are trading him because we have a bunch of bottom 6 lefties? Yeah, okay.

[vannuck59]

8 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

After watching Vancouver - Wash game, it became obvious we are short on a few thing,,,,,no kidding

 

Dante Fabbro                TDL  -  Baertschi 50% + Gudbranson 50%  for  Fabbro + plug...……............…........(Nash)…….Fabbro great Offensive player, stuck behind the big 4

2019 1st - top 5             Draft -  Elite player...……………………………………………………………............….(Van)………Which would be a NHL ready type player

2019 extra 1st               TDL  -. Tanev to Dallas for 2019-1st (26th OA)+ 2019 2nd  57th OA) (pure picks......(Dallas)……Future Biilding blocks (2)

2019 extra 1st               TDL  -  Edler + *conditional 2020 2nd to Florida for 2019 1st  (12OA to 18OA)..........(Florida)…...Future building block...we resign Edler

Vancouver's 2nd           Draft -  Solid pick.. (36 Pick OA)………………………………………………..................(Van)……...This will be a falling first

Conditional 2020 1st     Draft -  Return estimated 18 OA to  24 OA...................................................................(Van)...........Risky and 

MDZ..............................TDL  -  brings a 2019 5th

Pouliot...........................TDL  -  brings a 2019 3rd

 

Now, we pick up Edler in the Summer....no loss

Tanev gets moved and we replace with a stop gap veteran in summer

Baertschi is one of many LW, and has obtained his ceiling...time to cut bait

Gunbranson is no loose and when Tryamkin comes back, we are better off

MDZ......................was spare parts

 

Our draft at home is incredible

 

Fabbro

Van 2019 1st - 6 OA

Flo 2019 1st - (12 to 18) OA

Dallas 2019 1st - (16 to 26)

Conditional Van 2020 1st (18th - 24th OA)

Van 2019 2nd - 37 OA

Dallas 2019 2nd - 57 OA

Vancouver 2019 3rd - 68TH OA

Vancouver's 2019 4th - 99th OA

Vancouver's 2019 4th - 124th OA

Vancouver's 2019 5th - 156st OA

Vancouver's 2019 6th - 187OA

Misc,........ 2019 6th - 212nd OA

Vancouver.2019 7th - 217th  OA

 

This is the final year to make moves.......................all in.

 

 

 

One thing clear to me and everyone JB better quit signing and drafting smirf's . To Win in this NHL you have to have size, speed and mobility .

[Alflives]

Do not want Fabbro.  I don't see him as an NHL player.  We need to remember that some of these guys, who did well in the Junior A ranks are just not that good.  No to Fabbro!!!!

[J.I.A.H.N]

7 hours ago, -AJ- said:

The timing is wrong to dump all our vets imo. We're ready to start getting better next year, not continuing being bottom feeders. At this point, we're at the "wait for acquired prospects to grow" stage and past the "dump everyone older than 24" stage. 

Does everyone remember the 2014 -2015 season? IOI points, and everyone was talking like our rebuild was over....I think we are there again...…..

 

To me we are at the very least 1 top Dman, 1 top forward , and possibly a top goalie away, which will be 2 -3 drafts away, then 2 years of development away.= 4-5 years 

 

Where does that put us? well Horvat is then 28/29 years old, and we are starting to look at our not so young prospects, needing some replacements...…...

 

To me, looking at Washington, we looked small, and still in need of players....yes we will be able to beat the Calgary's, Dallas's, Florida's, but we will need to be bigger, and faster, and I think that means going to the draft with extra picks and size and speed in mind

 

I think going into this draft with multiple 1sts will make a difference down the road, and I have a feeling we will be a bubble team this year at the end, just out of the running for an elite player needed, or the next tier after that, for the second pick....I say go aggressive.

 

At the end of the day...we re-sign Edler as suggested and pick up a RHD for a couple of season's until either Tryamkin comes back or one of our RHD develop to his ability, which honestly is pretty close now. (Chatfield and Woo are what a year away? Maybe 2)

 

All I am rally saying is we still are not ready for a 7 game series with the Nashville's and Washington's, and probably the Winnipeg's of the NHL...we are just not there, and need more skill. I will also add that once Toronto figures out their defensive defenseman problem, they too will be, light years away.

 

Don't be fooled! We are still light years away, from the top, and not so far from the middle.....pretender or contender...that is the question!

 

We are worried about moving players that are either too old for our rebuild completion, or are bottom 4, 5, 6, 7 type players, where we have young players that can step up

I do not advocate every one leaving, but Benning has just shown how extremely easy it was to replace with better players, our bottom 6, no effort at all. which reminds me that once Beagle is back, Sutter can also be added to that list...….

 

And AJ, I don't disagree with you entirely, we will move up, but not to the top, nor will we get there, until we add another elite or top line player, and no more smurfs

[J.I.A.H.N]

42 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Do not want Fabbro.  I don't see him as an NHL player.  We need to remember that some of these guys, who did well in the Junior A ranks are just not that good.  No to Fabbro!!!!

You could be right Alf......you don't think that Fabbro is just stuck behind the big 4 in Nashville? He is a pretty gifted player IMO.....what have you heard?

[J.I.A.H.N]

3 hours ago, N7Nucks said:

6 points in 9 games for Baer cheese and we are trading him because we have a bunch of bottom 6 lefties? Yeah, okay.

Do you see Baertschi as a driver of the play, or an opportunist? I see him replaceable.

Because we have such young left wingers, we have the danger of comparing Baertschi against young players

But if we draft another center, and Pettersson was moved over to LW, how does he compare then?

How does he compare to a Kappo? Who would step right in and be a driver

Pettersson is a driver....invents things, creates thing,....I don't see Baertschi doing that

I see Goldobin doing that, but not Sven

He is replaceable IMO

[The Lock]

3 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

Do you see Baertschi as a driver of the play, or an opportunist? I see him replaceable.

Because we have such young left wingers, we have the danger of comparing Baertschi against young players

But if we draft another center, and Pettersson was moved over to LW, how does he compare then?

How does he compare to a Kappo? Who would step right in and be a driver

Pettersson is a driver....invents things, creates thing,....I don't see Baertschi doing that

I see Goldobin doing that, but not Sven

He is replaceable IMO

Personally, I don't think it's a matter of "replaceable". If we need to "replace" him why trade him in the first place? If we based out trades thinking we can get certain types of players back, that's playing with fire as there are no guarantees.

 

Don't make trades based on speculation. It's quite possibly one of the most dangerous things we could do.

[J.I.A.H.N]

2 hours ago, The Lock said:

Personally, I don't think it's a matter of "replaceable". If we need to "replace" him why trade him in the first place? If we based out trades thinking we can get certain types of players back, that's playing with fire as there are no guarantees.

 

Don't make trades based on speculation. It's quite possibly one of the most dangerous things we could do.

It is not speculation...……..

We have an abundance of LW and LW prospects

We can draft LWers that have higher ceilings

we can sign UFA LWers

That is fact....no speculation...…….but regardless

 

Sven has a ceiling and he has reached that ceiling IMO

Sven is not a driver of the play and is only a supporting type player

nothing wrong with that, but if the point is to build than we need better

 

CDC thinks we are finished out Rebuild...I think we are a ways away.....again it is just my opinion

no righter than yours

 

I guess it is just a question of whether you are satisfied with a top 10 team vs a Cup team 

And don't get me wrong...I like winning

I just want the cup sometime in my lifetime....and it is getting late!

[timberz21]

15 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

After watching Vancouver - Wash game, it became obvious we are short on a few thing,,,,,no kidding

 

Just the fact that you needed to watch WSH-VAN to realize we are short on a few things, speaks to the credibility of this proposal.

 

Nashville has no use for Guddy and Baertschi.  They traded Seth Jones for Ryan Johansen, they are better off keeping Fabbro or trading him for something much more useful than Guddy and Baerstchi.

 

Not saying, nothing in here is plausible, but i'd be shocked if more than one of these kind of trade materialized itself.

[The Lock]

1 hour ago, janisahockeynut said:

It is not speculation...……..

We have an abundance of LW and LW prospects

We can draft LWers that have higher ceilings

we can sign UFA LWers

That is fact....no speculation...…….but regardless

 

Sven has a ceiling and he has reached that ceiling IMO

Sven is not a driver of the play and is only a supporting type player

nothing wrong with that, but if the point is to build than we need better

 

CDC thinks we are finished out Rebuild...I think we are a ways away.....again it is just my opinion

no righter than yours

 

I guess it is just a question of whether you are satisfied with a top 10 team vs a Cup team 

And don't get me wrong...I like winning

I just want the cup sometime in my lifetime....and it is getting late!

Except it is speculation. Let me give you the definition of speculation:

 

"The forming of a theory or conjecture without firm evidence."

 

Player ceilings are speculation about how high they can go. Scouts form a theory based on what they see in a player; however, it's never firm evidence as that would be impossible as is with everything regarding predicting the future. Sven reaching his ceiling is speculation. The ceiling of our LW prospects are speculation. We can hope for the best for all of this, but that's what speculation is. So please don't tell me it's not speculation when clearly it is.

 

If we trade Sven, we are NOT insured a player of the same caliber, let alone a higher caliber. If you think we are insured this, then you are lying to yourself. Like I said earlier, there are no guarantees on any of this. You don't trade someone thinking you will get the same type of player later, especially when it comes to top 6 forwards. You trade based on improving your team in terms by getting desired assets back; otherwise, you might as well consider it a complete mess of a trade.

 

Keep this is mind: if every player reached his ceiling, the competition for roster spots league-wide would be something fierce. Teams would probably be able to roll out "5 forward lines" of top 6 forwards so to speak. Imagine if there were no flops; if all draft picks made their potential. Yet, this clearly doesn't happen. Thus, it's speculation.

[J.I.A.H.N]

1 hour ago, The Lock said:

Except it is speculation. Let me give you the definition of speculation:

 

"The forming of a theory or conjecture without firm evidence."

 

Player ceilings are speculation about how high they can go. Scouts form a theory based on what they see in a player; however, it's never firm evidence as that would be impossible as is with everything regarding predicting the future. Sven reaching his ceiling is speculation. The ceiling of our LW prospects are speculation. We can hope for the best for all of this, but that's what speculation is. So please don't tell me it's not speculation when clearly it is.

 

If we trade Sven, we are NOT insured a player of the same caliber, let alone a higher caliber. If you think we are insured this, then you are lying to yourself. Like I said earlier, there are no guarantees on any of this. You don't trade someone thinking you will get the same type of player later, especially when it comes to top 6 forwards. You trade based on improving your team in terms by getting desired assets back; otherwise, you might as well consider it a complete mess of a trade.

 

Keep this is mind: if every player reached his ceiling, the competition for roster spots league-wide would be something fierce. Teams would probably be able to roll out "5 forward lines" of top 6 forwards so to speak. Imagine if there were no flops; if all draft picks made their potential. Yet, this clearly doesn't happen. Thus, it's speculation.

Lock

Today, as we debate this, Baertschi is our 1st line LW, 

Which is pretty sad really. He doesn't push Dmen back, no one is afraid

He is simply not a driver

Now earlier this summer Benning/Green said Baertschi had pick up his socks, he was referring to focus/drive

But Baertschi is still playing his old game, it is not in him, he is a complimentary player

Nothing wrong with it, but he would never, never be considered for an all-star, in any shape or form

First line players, should be considered that, and have games where they are dominant in one way or another

Never has Baertschi had that, and IMO, he does not show that ceiling

That is not speculation, that is observation and opinion...which is normal in these forums

If you are hung up on the word "speculation", well.....you are in the wrong forum, because one day is not like the rest

But still uses reasoning to develop opinions, which we share on this forum

Now in saying all that....I post to invite discussion, and I thank you for that...….

PS....I am not saying Baertschi is worthless by any means, he after all our 1st line LW

What I am saying is we need better...…….I guess you could say it is an speculative opinion!

Cheers

[JeremyCuddles]

9 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

Do you see Baertschi as a driver of the play, or an opportunist? I see him replaceable.

Because we have such young left wingers, we have the danger of comparing Baertschi against young players

But if we draft another center, and Pettersson was moved over to LW, how does he compare then?

How does he compare to a Kappo? Who would step right in and be a driver

Pettersson is a driver....invents things, creates thing,....I don't see Baertschi doing that

I see Goldobin doing that, but not Sven

He is replaceable IMO

So lets go with your hypothetical situations. First, you talk about comparing our young left wingers to Baertschi not even sure what you are getting on about here. Besides, we have ONE top 6 potential kid on the LW. That's Dahlen. We don't move a decent top 6 LWer hoping Dahlen can take that spot one day. We make room if/when that time comes. Not before. Gadjovich could maybe play top 6 I guess, similar to Wilson in Washington, but we don't move out assets we are in short supply of on the hope someone in Utica can take that spot one day.

 

If we draft a center, Pettersson is no threat to taking a top 6 LW spot since he plays better/best on the RW. So he and Baer will not be fighting to occupy the same spot.

 

How does he compare to Kaapo Kakko I assume? Doesn't matter, Kakko is a RWer. So again, will not be fighting with Baer for that spot. And this one is even more of a stretch than the other hypotheticals cause there is no guarantee we even draft top 5 which is likely where he goes.

 

Is he replaceable? Potentially, not right now though. Goldy has only established himself as top 6 capable in the last week, week and a half. Lol. Not to mention comparing Goldy to Baer is irrelevant. We have 2 top 6 LW spots, both players can coexist on this team. Finally get 2 youngish top 6 LWers and you wanna move one for lotto tickets because you hope we can replace Baer.

[J.I.A.H.N]

22 minutes ago, N7Nucks said:

So lets go with your hypothetical situations. First, you talk about comparing our young left wingers to Baertschi not even sure what you are getting on about here. Besides, we have ONE top 6 potential kid on the LW. That's Dahlen. We don't move a decent top 6 LWer hoping Dahlen can take that spot one day. We make room if/when that time comes. Not before. Gadjovich could maybe play top 6 I guess, similar to Wilson in Washington, but we don't move out assets we are in short supply of on the hope someone in Utica can take that spot one day.

 

If we draft a center, Pettersson is no threat to taking a top 6 LW spot since he plays better/best on the RW. So he and Baer will not be fighting to occupy the same spot.

 

How does he compare to Kaapo Kakko I assume? Doesn't matter, Kakko is a RWer. So again, will not be fighting with Baer for that spot. And this one is even more of a stretch than the other hypotheticals cause there is no guarantee we even draft top 5 which is likely where he goes.

 

Is he replaceable? Potentially, not right now though. Goldy has only established himself as top 6 capable in the last week, week and a half. Lol. Not to mention comparing Goldy to Baer is irrelevant. We have 2 top 6 LW spots, both players can coexist on this team. Finally get 2 youngish top 6 LWers and you wanna move one for lotto tickets because you hope we can replace Baer.

So, first off...I stand corrected on Kakko….left hand shot...RW...….gotcha!

But, look the fact remains Baertschi is not a driver, he is a stand in

and Goldy looks to be good enough to displace him soon enough.....and remember Green isn't that hot on him (Baer)...must be some reason?????

Dahlen looks to be coming along great.....

And there are 3 or 4 centers at the top of this draft that could play next year

All pie in the sky.....I know, but if Baertschi is going to be our 1st line LW for years...we are in trouble

Now going back to the original premise...….we need a very solid draft, and we need picks

Baertschi will not be on the team in 3 years, when we start contending.....4 tops

Thanks for commenting......sorry just don't like Baertschi as a first or second line player...vanilla

[J.I.A.H.N]

20 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

 

2019 1st - top 5             Draft -  Elite player...……………………………………………………………............….(Van)………Which would be a NHL ready type player

2019 extra 1st               TDL  -. Tanev to Dallas for 2019-1st (26th OA)+ 2019 2nd  57th OA) (pure picks......(Dallas)……Future Biilding blocks (2)

2019 extra 1st               TDL  -  Edler + *conditional 2020 2nd to Florida for 2019 1st  (12OA to 18OA)..........(Florida)…...Future building block...we resign Edler

Vancouver's 2nd           Draft -  Solid pick.. (36 Pick OA)………………………………………………..................(Van)……...This will be a falling first

Conditional 2020 1st     Draft -  Return estimated 18 OA to  24 OA...................................................................(Van)...........Risky and 

 

The whole point of this post is to show what is possible for this up and coming draft...….no not everything will happen, it never does, and I doubt very much that Tanev would be traded with Hughes and Juolevi both possibly coming on line next year...….I agree, it would be foolish.

 

But, Trading Edler for a possible 1st, is very possible, moving up with our 2nd is very possible, and trading our 2020 1st for a 2019 1st, could be done. It is possible to have 3 - 1st, as other teams (NYR) have recently had.

 

The question is, will Benning do something to improve our 2019 draft...this is a good draft, and we are very unbalanced positionally (aka lots of LW's, and LHD) Again, will Benning make any adjustments...….

 

Again, please note that I am very uneased by moving up too quickly in the standings, IMO,  we are not ready long term wise

[ABNuck]

19 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

The whole point of this post is to show what is possible for this up and coming draft...….no not everything will happen, it never does, and I doubt very much that Tanev would be traded with Hughes and Juolevi both possibly coming on line next year...….I agree, it would be foolish.

 

But, Trading Edler for a possible 1st, is very possible, moving up with our 2nd is very possible, and trading our 2020 1st for a 2019 1st, could be done. It is possible to have 3 - 1st, as other teams (NYR) have recently had.

 

The question is, will Benning do something to improve our 2019 draft...this is a good draft, and we are very unbalanced positionally (aka lots of LW's, and LHD) Again, will Benning make any adjustments...….

 

Again, please note that I am very uneased by moving up too quickly in the standings, IMO,  we are not ready long term wise

Jan...this point is both your favour and your folly...

Yes, we would LOVE to get more 1st RNDs in this draft...but so would every other GM, therefore the market value this year is remarkably higher. I honestly don't think we get a first this year for any of our vets. GM's will be looking to keep 2019 1st RNDs and dumping 2020's to make deals. The suggestions was made in the media already that Edler would bring a decent prospect (an A- to B+ type) AND a first...I agree that this is possible but more than likely it would be a 2020 1st that would be floated, not a 2019. Honestly, I can't see any GM's (outside of DODO-rion in Ottawa and the couple picks that were already traded for higher value ie/ Kane to SJS) giving up this year's first now that they can more clearly see the depth of this draft...but I suppose one can hope...even ONE additional 2019 RND1 pick would be amazing!

 

EDIT: Additional note on Edler:

I'm positive that any discussion about the addition of a 1st rounder to this deal would be conditional on Edler re-signing with his new team...I think if a GM was to give up a decent prospect AND a first rounder just to watch Edler walkaway (and possibly re-sign right back here)...should be fired on the spot...unless his owner is Melnyk...then do whatever you want, nobody cares.

[J.I.A.H.N]

2 hours ago, ABNuck said:

Jan...this point is both your favour and your folly...

Yes, we would LOVE to get more 1st RNDs in this draft...but so would every other GM, therefore the market value this year is remarkably higher. I honestly don't think we get a first this year for any of our vets. GM's will be looking to keep 2019 1st RNDs and dumping 2020's to make deals. The suggestions was made in the media already that Edler would bring a decent prospect (an A- to B+ type) AND a first...I agree that this is possible but more than likely it would be a 2020 1st that would be floated, not a 2019. Honestly, I can't see any GM's (outside of DODO-rion in Ottawa and the couple picks that were already traded for higher value ie/ Kane to SJS) giving up this year's first now that they can more clearly see the depth of this draft...but I suppose one can hope...even ONE additional 2019 RND1 pick would be amazing!

 

EDIT: Additional note on Edler:

I'm positive that any discussion about the addition of a 1st rounder to this deal would be conditional on Edler re-signing with his new team...I think if a GM was to give up a decent prospect AND a first rounder just to watch Edler walkaway (and possibly re-sign right back here)...should be fired on the spot...unless his owner is Melnyk...then do whatever you want, nobody cares.

Ahh, I am just greedy and dreaming.....lol

 

 

[erkayloomeh]

On 23/10/2018 at 6:44 AM, N7Nucks said:

6 points in 9 games for Baer cheese and we are trading him because we have a bunch of bottom 6 lefties? Yeah, okay.

It's a tough business make trade proposals on this board. Gotta give people credit for trying though 

[ABNuck]

13 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

Ahh, I am just greedy and dreaming.....lol

 

 

No you're not Jan. Again, EVERY GM wants more first picks in this upcoming draft, and you put together some scenarios in order to try and get some of those...reasonable scenarios. It's just that it's going to be tough to get them...no harm in trying! When a contender or a bubble team comes a-callin' on TDL day I expect Benning to be asking for this year's firsts...but he'll probably be offered 2020's instead...but there's no harm in asking.

 

If CDC was actually able to listen in on some of the actual trade proposals made by GM's then they might not be so hard on CDC'ers who make them...EVERY GM in the league starts high when selling, low when buying and then reality meets in the middle...or more times than not, doesn't meet at all. So keep making proposals CDC, they're probably not that far off from where real negotiations start anyways!