Protecting our stars (Poll)

[appleboy]

4 minutes ago, stawns said:

I would rather see some hooking, slashing, interference than 16 powerplays every game

Once players know the rules they conform very quickly. Right now no one is quite sure of what they can or can't do. Consistency is what is required. The league does not want that because if they followed strict rules then they couldn't manage games. They couldn't manage an entire playoff series like they did in 2011.  If they want a tough team to win they just don't make calls. If they want a skilled team to win then they call it tight.  

They don't want an even playing field.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, yes we can nucks said:

LOL.  Freudian slip?  

Hahaha Cosby, Cosby!!!!  

 

[NHTyrany]

18 hours ago, appleboy said:

I hear what everyone is saying but fighting is not a deterrent it is a reaction to something once it has happened. Boeser had a target on his back last year and Petey will be tested. They will take him out if they can.

The league needs to protect the skilled players. No one else can.

OK, I agree the league should be the protector but what do you do when it doesn't protect the skilled smaller players, as is the case right now. A team can create Deterents in many different ways and it doesn't mean chasing a player around for the rest of the game or always fighting. Winnipeg and Washington are good examples. I say Put Roussel on line 1 and drop Goldy down. Roussel He can help with "in the moment" responses. The entire team could improve upon its "we-aint-gonna-take-it" persona--still way too soft and the cheap shots are only a symptom. 

[appleboy]

1 hour ago, NHTyrany said:

OK, I agree the league should be the protector but what do you do when it doesn't protect the skilled smaller players, as is the case right now. A team can create Deterents in many different ways and it doesn't mean chasing a player around for the rest of the game or always fighting. Winnipeg and Washington are good examples. I say Put Roussel on line 1 and drop Goldy down. Roussel He can help with "in the moment" responses. The entire team could improve upon its "we-aint-gonna-take-it" persona--still way too soft and the cheap shots are only a symptom. 

I don't disagree that we need to have players of different skills. Lets say we surround Petey will tougher players, will that stop teams from trying to rough him up? I agree that we will see an immediate response but it won't stop teams from accomplishing their objective. The goons are quite willing to fight or do what ever it takes to meat their agenda. The only ones who can stop the attack on the skilled players is the league. Suspensions , enforcements of rules and communication with the players themselves. This is the most entertaining game in the world they just need to enforce the rules in a consistent manner. Give everyone an even playing field.

[Gurn]

12 minutes ago, appleboy said:

Lets say we surround Petey will tougher players, will that stop teams from trying to rough him up?

Maybe

 

Will it lower EP's point production..... maybe

 

Would that be a good trade-off.... maybe

[alt kilgore]

On 2018-11-03 at 10:04 AM, debluvscanucks said:

We don't get away with it, that's the problem.  If the refs did their jobs, we wouldn't have to have this conversation.  THAT'S where the pressure should be....and it's starting. 

 

Sports talk is starting to call it out and it's not a hidden secret that the league is holding. 

 

I'd rather the game keep moving toward speed and skill and start addressing the BS that aims to hurt that.  I saw the Av's get a little embarrassed at times and then come back with some lashing out.  The game was physical (a good thing...our team was fine in that department) but crossed over to dirty at times.  That's not fine and if it becomes a free for all, it's really not fine.

 

But this league...yeah.  Sure.  Nope.  Pick and choose.  See what you want to.

 

They even used the word "game management" in post game commmentary when talking of the calls (and lack of) last night.  They need to find consistency BEFORE someone gets hurt badly.   Again.

 

Yes.  The trouble is that the refs, and the department of player "safety", define "consistency" in another way. (Edit: Actually more like the officiating department and Stephen Walkom its director.)   You, I, and everyone who is sensible and logical would define it as being consistent in the degree of guilt in an infraction in the rule book, no matter the status of the player, for a whole game. Even better for a whole season.

 

Their definition of "consistency" is being "equal" to both teams in regard to penalty minutes, or at least keep it close. This has become the new "consistency".  I'm sure that many of the refs today, being apprenticed by the veteran refs retiring, go to bed at night and sleep like babies if they managed to give the same exact amount of penalty time to both teams for their game that day. Whether one team made an effort to be disciplined and one was unhinged. That isn't part of the considerations.  And they are rewarded for that kind of work.  Sutherland has done quite well for himself.

 

When I watch European reffed games I wish our refs would have the same cahones. Minus the calls for simple hard hits that they do, but in the attitude that if you do the crime, you do the time...no exceptions, no matter what time of the game it happens. They will not be afraid to call a second penalty on a team, late in the game, if they deserve it. They will also not be afraid to run up the penalties on just one of the teams...if they deserve it.   Here, Bettman is so paranoid not to p off one owner over another. And he will continue this practice to the detriment of the integrity of the league, to keep his job.

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[-DLC-]

20 hours ago, appleboy said:

I hear what everyone is saying but fighting is not a deterrent it is a reaction to something once it has happened. Boeser had a target on his back last year and Petey will be tested. They will take him out if they can.

The league needs to protect the skilled players. No one else can.

GREAT post!   So true...going after someone in retaliation means....something's already happened.  Too late, can't change that.  The league is responsible for reducing the risk of unnecessary injury that is caused through dirty play.  Not once in awhile, to show they're doing "something", but on a constant basis until it's drastically reduced.  There will always be some element of risk, but when a guy targets another away from the puck because he's on a mission, that stuff needs anger management and not to go unnoticed.   That's fueled by rage more often than not.

 

Those who love the vicious stuff don't have to live it.  Or have their families watch it.

 

I love rock 'em sock 'em hockey but I realize it's costing some their quality of life after hockey.  And that's just selfish of me.

 

I went to see Ice Guardians and most felt (Dors, Gino and Guddy were even there) there is a role of the enforcer necessary to reduce this stuff.  But we've gotten away from that era and the game of speed and skill  leaves players vulnerable.   We can't have it both ways...plugs who can't do anything but fight get left behind and there really aren't roster spots for them.   So it's more important than ever for the league to police this stuff.

[-DLC-]

6 minutes ago, kilgore said:

Their definition of "consistency" is being "equal" to both teams in regard to penalty minutes, or at least keep it close. This has become the new "consistency". 

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SO true, great point.  
 

[appleboy]

6 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

GREAT post!   So true...going after someone in retaliation means....something's already happened.  Too late, can't change that.  The league is responsible for reducing the risk of unnecessary injury that is caused through dirty play.  Not once in awhile, to show they're doing "something", but on a constant basis until it's drastically reduced.  There will always be some element of risk, but when a guy targets another away from the puck because he's on a mission, that stuff needs anger management and not to go unnoticed.   That's fueled by rage more often than not.

 

Those who love the vicious stuff don't have to live it.  Or have their families watch it.

 

I love rock 'em sock 'em hockey but I realize it's costing some their quality of life after hockey.  And that's just selfish of me.

 

I went to see Ice Guardians and most feel there is a role of the enforcer necessary to reduce this stuff.  But we've gotten away from that and the game of speed and skill still leaves player vulnerable.   We can't have it both ways...plugs who can't do anything but fight get left behind and there really aren't roster spots for them.  So it's more important than ever for the league to police this stuff.

People forget that the changes we see today started because the league had got to a point where the games were a goon fest full of hooking and groping. It was horrible to watch and arena's were getting a bit empty.

When hockey is played by the rules it sells itself. Skill and speed.

[IBatch]

My view on this is the NHL is in a condition of change still since the removal of enforcers from the game, and isn’t capable of keeping cheap shots, cross-checks, sticks to the hands, boarding etc in check.  The code has been around since the game was born and the rules or penalties were created, but the young players coming in haven’t been exposed to it as much as the vets still playing that were around during the past era and respect might be lost a little.   It’s part of hockey and likely always will be, some players are tougher than others and that ok (one all-star game a year is enough thank you very much). 

 

Personally i hope the games revert back to pre-expansion, where all hockey players were tough and expected to stand up for themselves and teammates when needed.  Back then fight leaders might have dropped the gloves five or six times.  Richard took care of himself with a lot of lumber if needed, or his fists.  Howe skated with his elbows going up and down like a train wreck coming your way to make space.  Everyone in the WHA wanted a piece of him, he beat up or whacked guys with impunity near the start until they game him the room he wanted to so he could play his game.  And he protected his sons, anyone foolish enough to cross-check them were in trouble.  He picked one off the ice after he creamed Howe junior, by the nostrils...never happened again after that.  Think it might take a generation, but original six hockey is working it’s way back, rolling four lines etc, no real policeman...we will see.

[WeneedLumme]

Maybe I am missing something. To those who say that we Canuck homers just don't see all the nasty things our players do to the opposition, I have a question. Who on the other teams have Canuck players recently knocked out of the game with concussions by blatantly dirty, unpenalized plays, as happened to our best  centre and our best left winger?

[stawns]

2 hours ago, appleboy said:

I don't disagree that we need to have players of different skills. Lets say we surround Petey will tougher players, will that stop teams from trying to rough him up? I agree that we will see an immediate response but it won't stop teams from accomplishing their objective. The goons are quite willing to fight or do what ever it takes to meat their agenda. The only ones who can stop the attack on the skilled players is the league. Suspensions , enforcements of rules and communication with the players themselves. This is the most entertaining game in the world they just need to enforce the rules in a consistent manner. Give everyone an even playing field.

what it does is put the guy who "responded" into the penalty box

[shazzam]

The refs aren't going to save us from a cheap shot, a penalty ain't going help. Even with a tough lineup, it ain't going to stop everything. But a response is a must. Going after the other teams top players is the best way to do it. Calvert takes a shot at Boeser, you don't have to go after Calvert. Guys like McKinnon and Rantanen should be playing in fear their next shift because we coming after them instead.

[EdgarM]

What I have stated before, which is not included in the poll, is "Team Toughness". I witnessed this in the 90's where even the superstar, Bure, took matters into his own hands.

But why did he feel comfortable to do this when he was by no means the tough guy or the enforcer on the team?

Yes there was Gino but there was also the entire team ready to "brawl" the other team if they had to.

These days I see one of our guys get into a scuffle and many times his team mates are not even watching or are in the process of skating away. I have seen Beagle get into a scuffle, in front of the net, with no support from any of his team mates

Instead of being reactive we should be proactive and let the opposition know that we stick together and that we play a hard physical game. That means when one of our players gets injured not everyone skates to the bench with out even a bit of a scuffle with the opposition. This is just telling the other team that there are no repercussions to their actions, hence most teams so far have been taking cheap shots on MANY of our players and it will probably continue.

This means we also need to finish ALL of our checks and we don't leave a guy, unimpeded, along the boards. Winnipeg does a very good job of this.

Playing this type of game not only helps our younger guys play with more room but it also restricts the opposition in playing their game and preventing them from beating us on the scoreboard.

[IBatch]

16 minutes ago, shazzam said:

The refs aren't going to save us from a cheap shot, a penalty ain't going help. Even with a tough lineup, it ain't going to stop everything. But a response is a must. Going after the other teams top players is the best way to do it. Calvert takes a shot at Boeser, you don't have to go after Calvert. Guys like McKinnon and Rantanen should be playing in fear their next shift because we coming after them instead.

Some of these replies and viewpoints just make me shake my head.  This is hockey we are taking about, as if ANY of the players in the NHL haven’t been a recipient of a cheap shot, boarding, a whack with a stick to the hands etc.  The league will never penalize a team into submission.

 Just look at the ANA team that won a cup.  Six players that would fit the word enforcer in today’s game, and three actual enforcers at one point or another, including two heavyweights and just for added pugilence at the TDL our very own Brad May (Parros and Thornton).  Check out how often they were on the PK in that run.  It’s staggering, no wonder Niederymier passed it to his brother, he surely earned it spending upwards of and entire period on the PK some games.  Pronger was a nasty player that any team would have loved to have at the time.  Huge team too, their third line was Getzlaf, Penner and Perry. 

 

We had a distinct advantage over Boston too, our PP didn’t matter against Thomas.  This is hockey we are talking about, it’s a tough hard game, and when played that way is also more entertaining.  The 97-98 Detroit teams used to pick a key player on the other team and either knock him physically out of the series, or render him ineffective.  Shanny was the ring leader and speaks of those teams with reverence saying the 2002 team was better, but would have had to win early or they’d be limping by game seven.

 

Its no surprise that Washington won last year, they can also play a heavy game and bruise their opponents. 

 

If Vancouver hopes to turn into a contender, guys like Gudbrabson and Horvat will be invaluable, and our stars will need to survive a much more physical environment.  They will be slashed and slammed (look at what Crosby has been through, punishing stuff, but it hasn’t made him a perimeter player in the least) and those PPs might be the difference in the series, we either make them count or we don’t.   Same with tactically deciding to pound the other team into submission, and killing the penalties as a result.

 

Hooking, slashing, boarding, spearing and fighting are penalties that don’t often remove a player out of the game unless the head is involved now, but are still legal in the sense you can do it and take your time-out in the box...not exactly a deterrent, especially if the infraction is intentional and part of the tactical position a coach and team take.

 

This is hockey we are debating after all right? 

[Lafayettecrossbar]

11 hours ago, stawns said:

Considering the Canucks outhit most of their opponents game in and game out, I don't think much help is needed

Are our hits really hurting the opposition more though? Because it seems for this young season so far it's been our guys who have been down on the ice more from dirty plays. 

 

Sure, we may outhit opposition on the scoresheet but I think the OP is talking about having a deterring factor in our lineup to prevent dirty plays on our young stars. 

 

I think most people know clean hits are fine either way. 

[PhillipBlunt]

Gudbranson needs to be a physical force, night in and night out. He checks Calvert into a stanchion, I'm willing to look the other way. 

[stawns]

11 hours ago, Lafayettecrossbar said:

Are our hits really hurting the opposition more though? Because it seems for this young season so far it's been our guys who have been down on the ice more from dirty plays. 

 

Sure, we may outhit opposition on the scoresheet but I think the OP is talking about having a deterring factor in our lineup to prevent dirty plays on our young stars. 

 

I think most people know clean hits are fine either way. 

those days are over

[mll]

 

[GoodCanadianKideh]

https://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/willes-musings-elias-petterssons-skill-set-is-unique-in-todays-

 

Interesting note from Ed Willes of the Province:  

 

On a related note, in the last three weeks the Canucks have watched the Panthers’ Michael Matheson deliver a hit that knocked Pettersson out for six games, the Golden Knights’ Thomas Hyka knock Sven Baertschi out for five games and counting, the Blackhawks’ Brandon Manning knock Troy Stecher out of a game and the Avs’ Matt Calvert deliver a cross-check to Boeser’s back.

Not going to spend a lot of time on this one. If the Canucks aren’t concerned about the liberties being taken with their skilled players, they should be. Hockey has changed a lot in the last 25 years but it hasn’t changed that much.