Could The Playoffs Be Possible and Is That A Good Thing Right Now?

[canuck73_3]

1 minute ago, Kanukfanatic said:

If the team does make the playoffs they are going to need someone mean to deal with the hacks and whacks that would definitely be dealt out to EP and BB imo. I am not sure who that would be other than Guddy.

I was hoping the team would make a play for Ryan Reaves big body who can play might be a decent deadline acquisition if in a playoff spot. 

[EdgarM]

27 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

For the last decade they've had 1 scoring line sub par defense and poor goaltending. 

 

As for the Boston series you focus too much on the Sedin’s and not enough on the lack of support in secondary scoring. Also Hamhuis getting hurt did not help at all. 

 

On top of all that you completely ignore how good of a team Boston was Bergeron and Chara in their prime and both top shutdown players in the league. Tim Thomas playing the best hockey of his career. The Bruins were a great team that stayed healthy minus Horton. 

 

In short there is way more to it than your simplistic and utterly stupid the blame falls entirely on the Sedins whining. 

You are all over the map and I am finished with your banter. Come back when you have something meaningful to discuss.

[canuck73_3]

Just now, EdgarM said:

You are all over the map and I am finished with your banter. Come back when you have something meaningful to discuss.

Reading r hard I understand. 

[Rob_Zepp]

4 hours ago, PistolPete13 said:

The Guardian will be crushed by this news. According to him the OJ pick is a fail.   

Uh, getting a top 4 Dman who is a puck moving expert is a fail?    I thought this was a hockey discussion board?

[CaptKirk888]

8 hours ago, EdgarM said:

Ok how about I just state FACTS then. The Twins, who were main point producers both 5 on 5 AND the PP performed BELOW their standards for both regular season and the playoffs for that SCF. Theye  picked a bad time to do this by the way. The PP went something like 3 for 32. The Bruins DID get their penalties. The Bruins ended up with 3 more penalties than us in the series.

Linden, with 2 broken ribs, scored 2 goals in game 7. Bure I think had like 8 points for the 7 game series in 94'.

Daniel I think had 4 points for the series and I think Hank only had 1 point. The canucks scored a total of 8 (yes, 8 friggin goals) in the whole series. It wasn’t just The Sedins who under performed.

So when you say "mental and emotional toughness" do you really think these players were all equal? The numbers speak for themselves.

 

[HorvatToBaertschi]

Just look at what playoffs in ‘15 did to Horvat. Discussion over. 

[Mathew Barzal]

Good teams know they're good, and take their time to warm up. Once they hit their stride around the forty game mark our defense will be absolutely shredded.

 

Our offense, while potent, is relying a lot on young talent who will inevitably run hot and cold. We don't have the defense to grind out those cold months. 

[Baggins]

13 hours ago, EdgarM said:

You were saying that you cannot blame losses or lack of team scoring on 2 players.

So I asked you that when are team scores 0 goals, who do we blame then?

Why does anybody need to be blamed? Even ignoring all our injuries does the opposition get no credit at all?

 

Daniel led all Canucks with 27 shots on goal against the B's. The closest forward to him was Lapierre with 20. Bieksa led all d-men with 26. Kesler had 18 and Burrows only 13. Thomas set a SC final record with 238 saves. That's averaging 34 saves per game. So it's not like there wasn't any effort there. Maybe you should just blame Thomas for getting hot. Or maybe Lou for saying "I would have made that save" after game two OT.

[IBatch]

On 2018-11-03 at 2:48 PM, TheGuardian_ said:

With LA tanking or at least injured, old and horrible right now, that is one position closer to a playoff spot. Anaheim is somewhat questionable as is Vegas.

It is still really way too early yet to tell but that makes it a 5 team competition for the top 3 divisional spots and a 5 team competition for the remaining 2 wild card spots if not a divisional, that might be doable with a little work and if EP keeps it up, a playoff berth might/may be more than a possibility.

 

So it could be a good thing if a playoff spot is the overall goal. Good for the fans, the owner but the goal of a cup with come cap certainty?

I could be a bad thing as well due to numerous factors.

 

Leaving the lottery reduces the chances to get players like EP or Horvat.

With the CBA and potential lockout on the horizon, if the NHL reverts to past practices, two more poor seasons could result in an extra (2021) top 7 selection and 3 more top 7 picks should almost guarantee a decade of cup contention and maybe a couple at that. There will be teams looking to trade 2 bad years for up to 4 top 7 picks, 3 picks for sure.

 

Making the show right now might mean being stuck in the middle, the upper middle, but still like "kissing your sister", years/decade of "almost there".

 

It is conflicting right now, it is great to see EP, Horvat, Boeser, Virtanen, Goldy and a little bit Gaudette bloom but the D is nowhere close, it needs 3 more players and OJ can't crack/make this group no matter his 3 years of development. Groot, maybe, Hughes, he is just so small for NHL playoffs.

 

In the few games so far it is great to see possibilities for the future but short terms gains in the standings at this juncture in exchange for a mere 2 more lottery years and even longer term certainty/plan of cup contention?

 

It is not JUST the regular season. I cheer when I see those young kids being so successful and cringe if management figure the job is done.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Guardian your right to suggest we are middle bound without a few more good picks turning into star players or at least very good ones.  After watching Dahlen live this weekend I’m a believer that he will make the jump and be a good winger for our top six.  And that JG has a chance of playing in the bottom six as well, help is still going to trickle in to make us a better team from our existing pool.  OJ isn’t ready yet but is getting proper seasoning and becoming a top defender for us in Utica already which bodes well for us too.

 

Id like us to get one or two more lottery picks as well, and think even if we make the playoffs this year we won’t make them consistently right away so more help will be on the way, the trade off is our young guys get a taste of what the playoffs are which will help them the next time we make it.  To me it’s a win win.  If we can make the playoffs despite not having our top two defenseman for a length of time, it shows we don’t need them and will only be better once Hughes and maybe OJ or Brisbois make it (the latter was the best defenseman the two games I watched).  If we don’t make the playoffs and the lottery balls are kind to us we have a chance at another good prospect.  

 

9-6 is pretty good, but in a month we could be 12-18, or just .500.  Its still too early to worry about such things, if EP is so good he can lead us to the playoffs his first year we are in for some very good times.  Benning can plug some holes this summer by finding the right UFAs, and we still have one of the best pools in the league even without EP.  

[EdgarM]

10 hours ago, CaptKirk888 said:

  19 hours ago, EdgarM said:

Ok how about I just state FACTS then. The Twins, who were main point producers both 5 on 5 AND the PP performed BELOW their standards for both regular season and the playoffs for that SCF. Theye  picked a bad time to do this by the way. The PP went something like 3 for 32. The Bruins DID get their penalties. The Bruins ended up with 3 more penalties than us in the series.

Linden, with 2 broken ribs, scored 2 goals in game 7. Bure I think had like 8 points for the 7 game series in 94'.

Daniel I think had 4 points for the series and I think Hank only had 1 point. The canucks scored a total of 8 (yes, 8 friggin goals) in the whole series. It wasn’t just The Sedins who under performed.

So when you say "mental and emotional toughness" do you really think these players were all equal? The numbers speak for themselves.

No matter what kind of adversity is presented(hot goalie,injuries,refs), it does not excuse them for UNDERPERFORMING and their numbers indicate that. Of the 8 goals you indicated, they scored 2 of those. They provided 25% of the scoring even though they were on the #1 line and on the #1 PP. They only scored 1 PP goal by the way and they had 32 chances in the 7 games.

You are right in that they were not the only ones that contributed to that series loss but they were part of it and should shoulder SOME of that responsibility and should not be EXEMPT like so many are indicating.

[TheGuardian_]

18 hours ago, peaches5 said:

Tampa keeps drafting at the end of the first round and picking studs

Not really,

2013 - #3 overall - 1 player - Drouin

2014 - #79 - Point

2015 - 0

2016 - 0

2017 - 0

2018 - 0

 

They did most of their damage in the years they tanked, Stamkos, Hedman, and 2011, seven years ago when they drafted Russians at a time the league was shying away, .Kucherov, Namestnikov, Palat, the rest are trades.

 

20 hours ago, chon derry said:

are there other teams that know for certain how their future is going to unfold moreso than the canucks? ,because you make it seem like their the only team in the league that is just playing aimlessly without a long term plan ,of which theres a good possibility their ahead of expectation,  there is some aimless expectation  ,but it's not within the team ranks its within the fan base.

Communicating a possible timeline would not be giving up secrets and could even encourage more fan support.

20 hours ago, Slegr said:

We have enough draft talent now. Any more superstar picks in the couple years and we’ll exceed cap. Late picks and smart trades can round this team out for years. 

The time is now to start making the playoffs. Ships take a while to turn around, you don’t just snap fingers and start winning. Playoffs this year is a step in the right direction.

So these are these guys the end? Extra superior picks/players can be used later in trades for top picks if management is smart enough to move veteran assets before they expire or just get nothing in return. Snap fingers? Explain that to Vegas, quite literally a snap of the fingers and if you think the Nucks are done, then that happened with one pick, Elias.

 

 

[oldnews]

OP may be disappointed to hear that Juolevi has 7 pts in Utica. leads the blueline - only three forwards have more - and to start as a 20 yr old defenseman in the AHL with better than .5 ppg - is impressive, and moreso when you're an all-situations, two way defenseman.

 

Might pose a risk of contributing to some wins later in the season if the team decides he's NHL ready.

 

If you listen to the Guardian types around here the past few years you'd have repeatedly heard the claim that the team didn't have any top 6 forwards in the system.....

 

Anyhow - carry on sandbagging 20 year olds lol - but the premature disappointment says far more about the disposition of the beholder than it does anything about the player.

[NHTyrany]

On 03/11/2018 at 3:01 PM, TheGuardian_ said:

I would think you would be concerned as Benning has only 2 players in five years playing after the #7 selection not counting his first year when he had the benefit of the Bruins scouting reports to help. His late picks are taking more than 4 years to show up, Boeser, Horvat could be past their prime by the time those are rookies and bottom six guys at that. Not sure Gadovitch or Lind are making the top line any time soon.

What's the logic behind excluding his first year and cutting-off at 8th overall? Also, do you know how this compares with other teams?

 

Thank you,

[HockeyHarry]

Bottom line is Canucks need a real defense core. EP40 is one guy not the entire team. Canucks are scoring tons? EP is, who else is. This team isn’t ready for the playoffs the Defense is horrible and the only way to get better is through the draft.  Making playoffs isn’t the best thing right now. 

 

Im on team tank. For this season anyways. Next season I’m for making the playoffs.

 

Will this next draft make a big difference only time will tell but I rather have higher drafts then 4 playoff games.

 

Utica needs playoff experience. So I hope they have a long playoff run. As far as the Canucks It won’t kill them if they don’t make it.

 

[oldnews]

1 hour ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Not really,

2013 - #3 overall - 1 player - Drouin

2014 - #79 - Point

2015 - 0

2016 - 0

2017 - 0

2018 - 0

 

That is absolutely absurd. 

 

You clearly know nothing about their team or their prospect pool.

 

Their entire draft class of 2011 has played NHL games - three of them very high end NHLers.

Namestnikov

Kucherov

Nesterov

Peca

Palat

 

2012 - four NHLers - including an elite starter..

Vasilievskiy

Paquette

Koekkoek

Dotchin

Gusev

 

2013

In addition to Drouin - who they used to fleece Montreal for Sergachev they also have....

Adam Erne in their lineup, who has 4 pts in 9 games this year

2 other players that have played NHL games for them.

 

2014-15

In more recent drafts - beyond Brayden Point - who is an absolute home run at 79th overall...

they have another absolute stud in Anthony Cirelli, a 72nd overall pick in 2015 - who you fail completely in posting a -0 for 2015 - borderline absurd

- not to mention a few other good prospects in that draft class, including Joseph, who has also already made a very deep Tampa forward group as a 21 yr old.

 

2016

Again you post a -0 - which is laughable considering Howden was part of the deal - along with Namestnikov and 2nd round pick Hajek - that brought Ryan friggin McDonagh and J.T MIller to Tampa.

In addition, Boris Katchouk, Taylor Raddysh, Otto Somppi = all excellent picks / now prospects.

 

Seriously - get serious.   Tampa has drafted extremely well - you are completely out to lunch here.

 

[TheGuardian_]

18 hours ago, debluvscanucks said:

I am of the one day at a time mentality.

 

Whatever will be will be.

Hmmm, a thought, now cue the laughter, occurred to me reading this. My 40+ years experience in the hockey world often forms a different way of seeing the game, one of the side effects is always looking for improvement, identifying/evaluating players/systems which can be seen as being negative and I don't play first person shooter games, I play chess, checkers, Risk,, IG2 or Rails, these are various forms of strategy games that look at future moves to be successful, often the more future thinking ahead the more success. I see that most games now are first person "shooter" games relying more on reacting and resetting, multiple chances instead of pure strategy. Of course there is the new league but that still seems more reactionary than strategic.

 

The approach to games is/could be different, not necessarily wrong but flawed each in it's own way but it would change the point of view of posters IMO. Long term strategic gamers would/will layer their plans while reactionary gamers would look at the immediate for success and eliminate failures and time. Again IMO new gamers just don't see the game the same way, they see a game and I look for this and the next season. For the others time is not as important only on ice success game by game with a loss just needing "reset", players never tire out and how long for player development isn't a factor for player effectiveness or game results.

18 hours ago, Kanukfanatic said:

You have very strong opinions on how NHL drafts work. Are you employed in any way in that type of work?  I know that I am not. I am very happy Benning runs the Canucks and that he and his scouting staff chose Boeser and EP.

 

Your opinions are a bit too strong if you are not a successful NHL scout and you really think you could do better lmao.  

Funny you should say that, I have been involved in selecting national teams essentially drafting teams and scouting. Before the internet some teams had a myriad of pro and semi pro scouts there were just too many teams and players to identify, sometimes we didn't even have access to a pay phone (no cells), relied on coaches and ex-players for "spotting" and traveled alot. That is one reason Europe was such a gold mine for awhile. As Burke stated a GM can't scout as there is just too much to do, he might be involved in the first pick but most of the rest he relies on the staff.

13 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Uh, getting a top 4 Dman who is a puck moving expert is a fail?    I thought this was a hockey discussion board?

My opinion regarding defencemen development has always been that they can take longer and still be above average but mostly the later round picks but with all the new information available even this is starting to go the way of the dodo bird. 1rst round picks, top 5 picks just aren't taking 4+ years to make the NHL let alone be a star player. Clendening was an allstar AHL dman but just marginal.

[TheGuardian_]

2 minutes ago, oldnews said:

That is absolutely absurd. 

 

You clearly know nothing about their team or their prospect pool.

 

Their entire draft class of 2011 has played NHL games - three of them very high end NHLers.

Namestnikov

Kucherov

Nesterov

Peca

Palat

 

2012 - four NHLers - including an elite starter..

Vasilievskiy

Paquette

Koekkoek

Dotchin

 

2013

In addition to Drouin - who they used to fleece Montreal for Sergachev they also have....

Adam Erne in their lineup, who has 4 pts in 9 games this year.

 

2014-15

In more recent drafts - beyond Brayden Point - who is an absolute home run at 79th overall, they have another absolute stud in Anthony Cirelli, a 72nd overall pick in 2015 - who you fail completely in posting a -0 for 2015 - borderline absurd - not to mention a few other good prospects in that draft class, including Joseph, who has also already made a very deep Tampa forward group as a 21 yr old.

 

2016

Again you post a -0 - which is laughable considering Howden was part of the deal - along with Namestnikov and 2nd round pick Hajek - that brought Ryan friggin McDonagh and J.T MIller to Tampa.

In addition, Boris Katchouk, Taylor Raddysh, Otto Somppi = all excellent picks / now prospects.

 

Seriously - get serious.

 

The original posting was about all the stars they got, I merely looked to the last 6 years of drafts. The Canucks drafted the Sedins in 1999 too.

I didn't post about them using their picks in trades for outstanding players, players that helped improved their team because Vancouver doesn't do that and it would be an unfair comparison or some poster would see it as bashing management, which is a different topic and thread.

 

Also my reply had to do with the "great" picks in the late rounds, IMO Chicago is way better than just about any team. I just provided the actual picks names that had an impact. Every NHLer can be said to have an impact at some level, just the late round ones aren't often top six players on their own.

   

[Rob_Zepp]

2 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

 

My opinion regarding defencemen development has always been that they can take longer and still be above average but mostly the later round picks but with all the new information available even this is starting to go the way of the dodo bird. 1rst round picks, top 5 picks just aren't taking 4+ years to make the NHL let alone be a star player. Clendening was an allstar AHL dman but just marginal.

Will agree the trend is for younger players but there remain lots of players emerging at D+4 and even later at this position even in the youth movement of the CAP era.   Random player being an AHL all-star has nothing to do with OJ or any other player for that matter.   Take a guy like Slater Koekkoek in Tampa - five years after being drafted, he has played far more AHL games than NHL games but this top 10 pick is rounding into a solid NHL Dman at 24 and will be worth Tampa's patience.   Even with Pouliot, who was also a top 10 pick, is emerging as an NHL regular D+6 with flashes of considerable upside.   I view OJ as better than both examples in almost ever facet of the, inclusive of size and overall hockey IQ, but I don't share you pessimism with this player at all.   So far, given OJ is not "starring" let alone playing in the NHL, I am sure easier for you to find supporters of your position.   Feel free to come back each year if he doesn't emerge to remind me that I was wrong.   

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Not really,

2013 - #3 overall - 1 player - Drouin

2014 - #79 - Point

2015 - 0

2016 - 0

2017 - 0

2018 - 0

 

They did most of their damage in the years they tanked, Stamkos, Hedman, and 2011, seven years ago when they drafted Russians at a time the league was shying away, .Kucherov, Namestnikov, Palat, the rest are trades.

 

Communicating a possible timeline would not be giving up secrets and could even encourage more fan support.

So these are these guys the end? Extra superior picks/players can be used later in trades for top picks if management is smart enough to move veteran assets before they expire or just get nothing in return. Snap fingers? Explain that to Vegas, quite literally a snap of the fingers and if you think the Nucks are done, then that happened with one pick, Elias.

 

 

Yzerman leaving is understandable given he rightly wants more family time but at the same time a headscratcher given the great job he was doing at signing and trading players.  They have been good for so long and entering the peak of their players primes...hope Benning can navigate the job as well as he did once we get back into the playoff picture regularly...

[spur1]

Wow talk about global warming.