Canucks displaying a model rebuild plan

[Alflives]

15 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

not saying Sutter shouldn't be moved, I'd be OK with that for a great return, but if the team is competing I don't think Jim will make a move like that and undercut their chances of making the post season. 

I agree.  But at the TDL JB will have to compare the value of Sutter’s trade return with the value of young players’ increased development competing for a playoff spot down the stretch.  If Sutter returned a young Dman...?  

[Googlie]

For me the defensive surprise has been tbe pairing of Stecher and Pouliot.  I know +/- stats are relatively meaningless, but combined, the pairings are:

 

Stecher/Pouliot. ......................... plus 11 in 30 combined games

Hutton/Gudbranson ................... minus 7 in 28 combined games

Biega/MDZ .................................. minus 5 in 12 combined games

 

 

[Toyotasfan]

funny nobody mentions Goldobin, Bartschi , 2 core forwards who may be upgraded later or maybe part of our future.

Hutton , Stetcher : two young guys who will be our depth on D for years to come.

 

[JM_]

17 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I agree.  But at the TDL JB will have to compare the value of Sutter’s trade return with the value of young players’ increased development competing for a playoff spot down the stretch.  If Sutter returned a young Dman...?  

I'd guess he'd be looking to make a move earlier in the year for something like that. I do wonder if a combo of Gaudette and Gaunce can be as effective as Sutter in a year or two, now that we have Beagle as well. 

[aGENT]

47 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I do think people should buckle up for another "disappointing" trade deadline. I think the team has a chance to be close enough to a wildcard spot that there won't be any movement of big ticket players like a Sutter, Guddy, Tanev or Edler...

Then those people should probably get a firmer grip on reality. 

 

I doubt many of those guys are particularly on the trade block or would be moved regardless of where we sit in the standings, given they all have term left, other than Edler. Short of someone absolutely knocking Benning's socks off with a huge offer anyway. 

 

Edler's basically the only major piece of any value we have to move and he has an NTC. The most likely scenario with him is probably an extension but I'm sure we'd all welcome the trade return should one actually happen. Obviously the most ideal situation would be a trade and then re-sign in the summer. But that's also probably the least likely.

 

If folks are hanging their hopes on that scenario, I look forward to all the posts of disappointment and decrying of Benning and his 'incompetence' 

 

All I'm expecting at this point is to maybe pick up some later round picks for the likes of MDZ, hopefully Nilsson if Demko can get healthy and get on a role and maybe explore moving a couple excess complimentary/depth wingers.

 

Anything over that would be gravy and IMO won't have anything to do with the standings. Benning knows where this team is and where he wants it to be going. Potential playoffs doesn't change that IMO. 

[Westcoasting]

19 hours ago, Sergei Shirokov said:

 

So what do you guys think? Did Vancouver actually have the right rebuild plan all along?

 

Here is a piece from Ed Willis of comparing Vancouver's rebuild plan to Toronto's.

 

https://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/ed-willes-canucks-linden-revamp-left-in-the-dust-by-leafs-shana-plan

 

Right now it's just another team rebuilding, until results are realized there is no point in claiming victory. 

[Chris12345]

I dunno man they've sucked since 2011 I believe they haven't won a playoff series and maybe 2 playoff games?

 

That's what sucking for 6 years? They haven't turned veteran assets into picks and were late to the game on the rebuild. Markstrom is the only active asset they have (maybe Guddy and Sutter) as a result of asset management?

 

Don't get me wrong Benning is fantastic at the draft table but the rebuild could have been done a lot better.

 

I hate to point out the Canucks didn't move Shawn Mathais and the Leafs signed him, and dealt him 6 months later.

[Westcoasting]

It took the Capitals a dozen years to build a winner... after they drafted Ovi.  Is a rebuild even over until you win a cup?

[Crabcakes]

30 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Then those people should probably get a firmer grip on reality. 

 

I doubt many of those guys are particularly on the trade block or would be moved regardless of where we sit in the standings, given they all have term left, other than Edler. Short of someone absolutely knocking Benning's socks off with a huge offer anyway. 

 

Edler's basically the only major piece of any value we have to move and he has an NTC. The most likely scenario with him is probably an extension but I'm sure we'd all welcome the trade return should one actually happen. Obviously the most ideal situation would be a trade and then re-sign in the summer. But that's also probably the least likely.

 

If folks are hanging their hopes on that scenario, I look forward to all the posts of disappointment and decrying of Benning and his 'incompetence' 

 

All I'm expecting at this point is to maybe pick up some later round picks for the likes of MDZ, hopefully Nilsson if Demko can get healthy and get on a role and maybe explore moving a couple excess complimentary/depth wingers.

 

Anything over that would be gravy and IMO won't have anything to do with the standings. Benning knows where this team is and where he wants it to be going. Potential playoffs doesn't change that IMO. 

Not very diplomatic but true none the less

 

Benning has this team where he wants it.  Support players for the rebuild are going nowhere despite what so many seem to wish.  Edler, Tanev, Gudbranson, Sutter, Beagle, Roussel, Schaller, Granlund are all there to help the younger players develop.

 

There are players who are becoming redundant like MDZ.  He will go at the trade deadline for cheap and that is fine.

 

One of the most interesting things to watch this year I think is the battle between Hutton and Pouliot.  Hutton has really stepped up (and simplified his game) recently.  Pouliot as well is doing a lot of good things and despite the giveaways his play is improving.  Perhaps one of them is moved because it is a numbers game on the left side.

[JM_]

41 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Then those people should probably get a firmer grip on reality. 

 

I doubt many of those guys are particularly on the trade block or would be moved regardless of where we sit in the standings, given they all have term left, other than Edler. Short of someone absolutely knocking Benning's socks off with a huge offer anyway. 

 

Edler's basically the only major piece of any value we have to move and he has an NTC. The most likely scenario with him is probably an extension but I'm sure we'd all welcome the trade return should one actually happen. Obviously the most ideal situation would be a trade and then re-sign in the summer. But that's also probably the least likely.

 

If folks are hanging their hopes on that scenario, I look forward to all the posts of disappointment and decrying of Benning and his 'incompetence' 

 

All I'm expecting at this point is to maybe pick up some later round picks for the likes of MDZ, hopefully Nilsson if Demko can get healthy and get on a role and maybe explore moving a couple excess complimentary/depth wingers.

 

Anything over that would be gravy and IMO won't have anything to do with the standings. Benning knows where this team is and where he wants it to be going. Potential playoffs doesn't change that IMO. 

I don't expect any picks tbh, I don't know that Del Zotto really has any value to a contending team. I guess maybe as extra extra depth. 

 

But thats fine, Benning has done a great job with what he's been given so as long as we have our 1st and 2nd round picks for 2019 that should bring some exciting talent, I'm hoping for 2 defence picks there.

 

I can see a Guddy deal with Toronto being a remote possibility, they have to have a tougher presence going into the playoffs. But it would be a long shot, Dubas probably wouldn't pay what Jim would demand.

 

[Phat Fingers]

4 hours ago, Chris12345 said:

I dunno man they've sucked since 2011 I believe they haven't won a playoff series and maybe 2 playoff games?

 

That's what sucking for 6 years? They haven't turned veteran assets into picks and were late to the game on the rebuild. Markstrom is the only active asset they have (maybe Guddy and Sutter) as a result of asset management?

 

Don't get me wrong Benning is fantastic at the draft table but the rebuild could have been done a lot better.

 

I hate to point out the Canucks didn't move Shawn Mathais and the Leafs signed him, and dealt him 6 months later.

So after winning back to back presidents trophies, getting all the way only to come up short in the SCF, a five year turnaround with what looks like a competitive club with only one expiring FA of any importance is awesome. 

 

If the team finishes near the playoffs or makes it in, this has been one of the fastest full rebuilds in league history. 

 

No top three picks, solid build from within approach, all done while being ridiculed by the so called experts. 

[CanadianRugby]

Be the worst team in the league over the last 3 years and constantly have lottery picks.  Not sure if there's anything revolutionary or 'model' about that.  It's what teams need to do to have a shot at building a contender in the cap era.  The Canucks actually got very lucky that Benning's retool fell flat on it's face and we got those high picks.  What would this team look like if that retool actually succeeded and we were a borderline playoff team from the get go. 

 

Benning did an amazing job at installing a new scouting department, and not much else.  His trades have been hit and miss, his free agents and contracts in general have been plain awful.  Also, I think that drafting good players with high picks is the easiest part of a rebuild.  The hard part starts now, making good trades... resigning your guys to good contracts while having cap room to add good free agents... The things that build a good team around the stars you've drafted.  

 

On ‎2018‎-‎11‎-‎03 at 2:21 PM, Sergei Shirokov said:

In comparison to other franchises:

The Chicago Blackhawks spent nearly a decade of missing the playoffs until finally getting lucky with a 1st and 3rd overall picks to draft Toews and Kane.

Did the Blackhawks also get lucky in drafting Seabrook 14th overall?  Keith 54th overall?  Got lucky building a superteam around those stars with guys like Byfuglien, Ladd, Hossa, Sharp, etc... 

 

I hate the Blackhawks more than anyone but come on.  Saying the Hawks got lucky is stupid.  They did a masterful job at building a modern day dynasty.  If they were satisfied with just drafting Kane & Toews they'd look like they do today and have 0 cups. 

 

Now that we have a franchise player and some other good young guys, we need someone that can make trades/signings to build a contender.  Not sure Benning has shown anything to indicate he's the guy to do that.  

[stawns]

8 hours ago, Googlie said:

For me the defensive surprise has been tbe pairing of Stecher and Pouliot.  I know +/- stats are relatively meaningless, but combined, the pairings are:

 

Stecher/Pouliot. ......................... plus 11 in 30 combined games

Hutton/Gudbranson ................... minus 7 in 28 combined games

Biega/MDZ .................................. minus 5 in 12 combined games

 

 

Despite semi regular brain farts, Pouliot has progressed a ton over the last 10 games and will be, imo, a bonafide top 4 d and pp dman

[Westcoasting]

36 minutes ago, stawns said:

Despite semi regular brain farts, Pouliot has progressed a ton over the last 10 games and will be, imo, a bonafide top 4 d and pp dman

Thank you i thought i was going insane maybe thinking that Pouliot is going to be around here a long time! 

[Sergei Shirokov]

3 hours ago, CanadianRugby said:

Be the worst team in the league over the last 3 years and constantly have lottery picks.  Not sure if there's anything revolutionary or 'model' about that.  It's what teams need to do to have a shot at building a contender in the cap era.  The Canucks actually got very lucky that Benning's retool fell flat on it's face and we got those high picks.  What would this team look like if that retool actually succeeded and we were a borderline playoff team from the get go. 

 

Benning did an amazing job at installing a new scouting department, and not much else.  His trades have been hit and miss, his free agents and contracts in general have been plain awful.  Also, I think that drafting good players with high picks is the easiest part of a rebuild.  The hard part starts now, making good trades... resigning your guys to good contracts while having cap room to add good free agents... The things that build a good team around the stars you've drafted.  

 

Did the Blackhawks also get lucky in drafting Seabrook 14th overall?  Keith 54th overall?  Got lucky building a superteam around those stars with guys like Byfuglien, Ladd, Hossa, Sharp, etc... 

 

I hate the Blackhawks more than anyone but come on.  Saying the Hawks got lucky is stupid.  They did a masterful job at building a modern day dynasty.  If they were satisfied with just drafting Kane & Toews they'd look like they do today and have 0 cups. 

 

Now that we have a franchise player and some other good young guys, we need someone that can make trades/signings to build a contender.  Not sure Benning has shown anything to indicate he's the guy to do that.  

The Hawks DID get lucky. Let's say the Hawks got the 5th overall pick in 2007 instead of the 1st Overall pick, and pick Sam Gagner or Karl Alzner instead of Patrick Kane. And say they are picking 5th, 6th or 7th overall in 2006 instead of 3rd overall and pick one of Brassard, Okoposo, Mueller, or Kessel. You see the difference in skill?? They don't win a cup without getting Kane and Toews. That's not too say they didn't do a good job of drafting and developing and building depth in their organization, but to completely disregard that they did get a bit lucky is just plain stupid,  

[MikeyBoy44]

9 hours ago, Toyotasfan said:

funny nobody mentions Goldobin, Bartschi , 2 core forwards who may be upgraded later or maybe part of our future.

Hutton , Stetcher : two young guys who will be our depth on D for years to come.

 

Baertschi isn't core. He is a fine player, but also replaceable.

[Rob_Zepp]

11 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

probably the right way to look at it, Mr. Buzzkill.

 

I do think people should buckle up for another "disappointing" trade deadline. I think the team has a chance to be close enough to a wildcard spot that there won't be any movement of big ticket players like a Sutter, Guddy, Tanev or Edler, and Gagner and Del Zotto aren't going to fetch anything. I suppose tank nation can hope for the wheels to come off in January but if the team can stay something close to healthy once the current crop of guys is back i can see a situation where no trades are made at the deadline this year. 

I have this on my wall.

 

[CanadianRugby]

7 hours ago, Sergei Shirokov said:

The Hawks DID get lucky. Let's say the Hawks got the 5th overall pick in 2007 instead of the 1st Overall pick, and pick Sam Gagner or Karl Alzner instead of Patrick Kane. And say they are picking 5th, 6th or 7th overall in 2006 instead of 3rd overall and pick one of Brassard, Okoposo, Mueller, or Kessel. You see the difference in skill?? They don't win a cup without getting Kane and Toews. That's not too say they didn't do a good job of drafting and developing and building depth in their organization, but to completely disregard that they did get a bit lucky is just plain stupid,  

What?  You're the one that named them, and disregarded the rest of the team.

[Lafayettecrossbar]

JB got hired after TL was hired

 

I've read a few comments on here saying we started the rebuild too late and that it is JB's fault. But could you imagine a first-time GM in JB just getting hired then telling TL and FA to get rid of the Sedins. TL/FA had no intention of trading the Sedins and always wanted to handle them with respect. JB would've been overrode if he suggested that. 

 

So, I think all the criticism of JB starting the rebuild late is unfounded because his hands were tied with the twins. But you know what? Everybody else who was part of that core he got rid of - for reasonably good pieces too. Only one still here is Edler, and when he's not injured he plays an important role for us. 

 

Tanev was there back then but I didn't see him as being part of the "core" like he is now. 

[Phat Fingers]

Saying the Blackhawks got lucky, stupid...  But JB got lucky for drafting Boeser, EP40, trading for Sutter, drafting Gaudette, straighing out Jake, drafting Demko, Landing Hughes, OJ and Woo to actually have a defence coming up, Signing Green, completely fixing the scouting department which resulted in likely drafting the best player to wear Canucks colours ever in EP40. 

 

There is a saying, that in pro sports, ‘you have to be good to be lucky,’ looks like JB has been good. Other than 6 players on the squad, all were either brought in or drafted by JB.  

 

Markstrom, Horvat, Gaunce and Hutton were not roster players and were developed under JB’s watch. 

 

Only Edler and Tanev were roster players prior to JB taking over the club. 

 

Take your hater aid glasses off, give credit where it is due and leave it there.