Sergei Shirokov

Canucks displaying a model rebuild plan

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

12 hours ago, CanadianRugby said:

Be the worst team in the league over the last 3 years and constantly have lottery picks.  Not sure if there's anything revolutionary or 'model' about that.  It's what teams need to do to have a shot at building a contender in the cap era.  The Canucks actually got very lucky that Benning's retool fell flat on it's face and we got those high picks.  What would this team look like if that retool actually succeeded and we were a borderline playoff team from the get go. 

 

Benning did an amazing job at installing a new scouting department, and not much else.  His trades have been hit and miss, his free agents and contracts in general have been plain awful.  Also, I think that drafting good players with high picks is the easiest part of a rebuild.  The hard part starts now, making good trades... resigning your guys to good contracts while having cap room to add good free agents... The things that build a good team around the stars you've drafted.  

 

Did the Blackhawks also get lucky in drafting Seabrook 14th overall?  Keith 54th overall?  Got lucky building a superteam around those stars with guys like Byfuglien, Ladd, Hossa, Sharp, etc... 

 

I hate the Blackhawks more than anyone but come on.  Saying the Hawks got lucky is stupid.  They did a masterful job at building a modern day dynasty.  If they were satisfied with just drafting Kane & Toews they'd look like they do today and have 0 cups. 

 

Now that we have a franchise player and some other good young guys, we need someone that can make trades/signings to build a contender.  Not sure Benning has shown anything to indicate he's the guy to do that.  

Saying the Blackhawks got lucky, stupid...  But JB got lucky for drafting Boeser, EP40, trading for Sutter, drafting Gaudette, straighing our Jake, drafting Demko, Landing Hughes, OJ and Woo to actually

have a defence coming up, Signing Green, completely fixing the scouting department which resulted in likely drafting the next player to where Canucks colours ever in EP40. 

 

There is a saying, that in pro sports, ‘you have to be good to be lucky,’ looks like JB has been good. Other than 6 players on the squad, all were either brought in or drafted by JB.  

 

Markstrom, Horvat, Gaunce and Hutton were not roster players and were developed under JB’s watch. 

 

Only Edler and Tanev were roster players prior to JB taking over the club. 

 

Take your hater aid glasses off, give credit where it is due and leave it there. 

 

 

Dbl post oops

 

 

  • Hydration 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Lafayettecrossbar said:

JB got hired after TL was hired

 

I've read a few comments on here saying we started the rebuild too late and that it is JB's fault. But could you imagine a first-time GM in JB just getting hired then telling TL and FA to get rid of the Sedins. TL/FA had no intention of trading the Sedins and always wanted to handle them with respect. JB would've been overrode if he suggested that. 

 

So, I think all the criticism of JB starting the rebuild late is unfounded because his hands were tied with the twins. But you know what? Everybody else who was part of that core he got rid of - for reasonably good pieces too. Only one still here is Edler, and when he's not injured he plays an important role for us. 

 

Tanev was there back then but I didn't see him as being part of the "core" like he is now. 

I think one could argue that the hiring of Linden and Benning was the beginning of the rebuild. Willie might have taken them to the playoffs the following season but in all reality that was a last gasp. Torts had it brutally right on his exit interview. The team had to get younger and had to have better talent. 

 

My critic of the rebuild has always been that it should have started in the summer of 2012, that is 6 years ago. The challenge then was to convert aging vets into replenishing the talent depth and breath. At that point the franchise was operating with no prospect pool. The future had been sacrificed for a serious CUP run which had come within a game of reality. Gillis had enough of a vision to buy an AHL franchise and put it in Utica. As an organization the lack of a AHL franchise was an essential fix. I will always give Gillis credit for that. Never the less the record in converting vets into future assets was poor to say the least under Gillis, Nonis and Benning. As a builder Benning has to be given serious props not just for his drafting. JB and ownership have invested big $'s in the nuts and bolts of an organization. Top notch facilities in Vancouver and Utica, expanded and accountable scouting, a reluctance to rush young talent into the NHL and a serious upgrade in personal throughout the org. Making the decision on Travis Green before losing him. 

 

As much as fans like to gauge the success of an org by making playoffs, it is important, the long term goal has to be winning a CUP. There is regular season success and there is playoff success. Two different seasons which do not always have the same priorities. As a long term Canuck fan I have seen to many examples of short term fixes for the sake of making playoffs. What I see with the Canucks is a more mature and patient approach to building a org that can go all the way to a CUP.   

  • Hydration 1
  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/3/2018 at 3:26 PM, Rob_Zepp said:

Don't think you can say that until the results of the rebuild are known.   There are certainly encouraging signs and even the trolliest of the CDC trolls have retreated to bridges for the most part but until this is a perennial playoff team, then it is not a "model" for anything.   Right now they are showing the trend is in the right direction.   Even the most diehard optimistic Canuck fan cannot claim more success than that yet.   

Agree! Let's all just enjoy this beginning together. I've been waiting since 1970 for Lord Stanleys' Cup to be hoisted in Vancouver. I've never seen so much young talent on the team, and in the minors, as well as the kids still playing in Junior and College. It takes luck, mistakes, and changes to get there.
 

  • Hydration 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the model plan will we completed when we will be able to attract some quality FA.

such as Panarin for exemple.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Canucks have been unsuccessfully rebuilding, retooling, signing free agents for 48yrs. 

 

but this new crop of kids is the youngest and most skilled to date so the future does seem brighter.

 

its because of finally having good drafting and high draft picks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2018-11-04 at 7:17 AM, mikeyman109 said:

Petterson makes a big difference on offense but if Tanev and Edler and beagle and Sutter are not injured i dont believe the Avs score 6 against us.

But i agree Petey is huge for us.

If the Canucks had a #1 goalie I don't believe the Avs score 6 on them, but also agree with your statement as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wasn't a fan of a lot of Benning's moves but he has shown the ability to draft well and assess young talent.  Rebuilding our franchise always starts with the draft which Benning has done in spades.  With what we have seen as fans the last 2 years, there is good reason to be excited for the future.  Props are in order.  Crow should be eaten.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

7 hours ago, Boudrias said:

I think one could argue that the hiring of Linden and Benning was the beginning of the rebuild. Willie might have taken them to the playoffs the following season but in all reality that was a last gasp. Torts had it brutally right on his exit interview. The team had to get younger and had to have better talent. 

 

My critic of the rebuild has always been that it should have started in the summer of 2012, that is 6 years ago. The challenge then was to convert aging vets into replenishing the talent depth and breath. At that point the franchise was operating with no prospect pool. The future had been sacrificed for a serious CUP run which had come within a game of reality. Gillis had enough of a vision to buy an AHL franchise and put it in Utica. As an organization the lack of a AHL franchise was an essential fix. I will always give Gillis credit for that. Never the less the record in converting vets into future assets was poor to say the least under Gillis, Nonis and Benning. As a builder Benning has to be given serious props not just for his drafting. JB and ownership have invested big $'s in the nuts and bolts of an organization. Top notch facilities in Vancouver and Utica, expanded and accountable scouting, a reluctance to rush young talent into the NHL and a serious upgrade in personal throughout the org. Making the decision on Travis Green before losing him. 

 

As much as fans like to gauge the success of an org by making playoffs, it is important, the long term goal has to be winning a CUP. There is regular season success and there is playoff success. Two different seasons which do not always have the same priorities. As a long term Canuck fan I have seen to many examples of short term fixes for the sake of making playoffs. What I see with the Canucks is a more mature and patient approach to building a org that can go all the way to a CUP.   

Having a complete fire sale of of the team is usually a bad idea. It's a good idea to sell off a few assets such as a Hansen or Burrows here and there, but a complete grazing of the team has a lot of negative effects. There is more too it than just accumulating picks for the future. There's things like professional development, and not exposing a bunch of 20 years to the wolves and teenagers. The oilers and leafs are prime example of this.  

 

When you sell of veterans as quickly as possible, you get more situations like what we went through with Virtanen, McCann, and Hutton. You get more entitlement of roster positions to young players without earning it, and overpaying for young players at an earlier age and lose all the cap benefits of having young players on ELCs.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/4/2018 at 7:56 AM, Boudrias said:

Way to early for fans to assume the rebuild is done

Whoa, who's said that?  This isn't Toronto.

  • Hydration 2
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, HockeyHarry said:

Canucks have been unsuccessfully rebuilding, retooling, signing free agents for 48yrs. 

 

but this new crop of kids is the youngest and most skilled to date so the future does seem brighter.

 

its because of finally having good drafting and high draft picks.

Dale Tallon, Bob Dailey, Jocelyn Goevremont, they were high picks, but the chief scout of the time, O'flaretty (sp) didn't know or have any idea what was going on. Tallon and Lever were his best by far.

  • Hydration 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Phat Fingers said:

Saying the Blackhawks got lucky, stupid...  But JB got lucky for drafting Boeser, EP40, trading for Sutter, drafting Gaudette, straighing our Jake, drafting Demko, Landing Hughes, OJ and Woo to actually

have a defence coming up, Signing Green, completely fixing the scouting department which resulted in likely drafting the next player to where Canucks colours ever in EP40. 

 

There is a saying, that in pro sports, ‘you have to be good to be lucky,’ looks like JB has been good. Other than 6 players on the squad, all were either brought in or drafted by JB.  

 

Markstrom, Horvat, Gaunce and Hutton were not roster players and were developed under JB’s watch. 

 

Only Edler and Tanev were roster players prior to JB taking over the club. 

 

Take your hater aid glasses off, give credit where it is due and leave it there. 

 

 

Dbl post oops

 

 

LOL what?  Where did I say JB got lucky at anything?  I said he did an amazing job at installing a new scouting department, average job at trading, bad job at contracts and awful job at vision (thinking a quick turnaround with the Sedins was possible).  

 

I do have hater aid glasses on, going for it instead of rebuilding from the start was foolish.  The only reason the rebuild looks good right now is because the original plan failed bad enough that we got good picks regardless.  Where would this rebuild be without Petterson, Hughes & OJ?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

how are we the model for rebuild lol we lucked out on Boeser.. and Benning have to be praised for EP but other than that if Boeser doesn't become the scorer he is.. even with EP we are still a terrible team so i wouldn't say we are the model for rebuild.. a model rebuild would be trading away asset for picks which we never really did.. we prolly have the fewest draft picks of any rebuilding teams in recent years

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/3/2018 at 2:21 PM, Sergei Shirokov said:

 


In comparison to other franchises:


The Chicago Blackhawks spent nearly a decade of missing the playoffs until finally getting lucky with a 1st and 3rd overall picks to draft Toews and Kane.

The same story can essentially be said for the likes of the Florida Panthers, Toronto Maple Leafs, Buffalo Sabres, New York Islanders, Tampa Bay Lightning, and Los Angelos Kings. The key differences is that these teams had been gifted 1st, 2nd and 3rd overall picks, and have been a lot worse for a lot longer. The canucks did more with A LOT less. Mostly through a combination of smart drafting,  patient development, and providing solid veteran players for mentor the young players. 

 

 

If you're going to compare with Los Angeles and Chicago, you have to acknowledge their Stanley Cups.......so, the Canucks don't have a model rebuild yet but hopefully they will.

Edited by NHL97OneTimer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

If the Canucks had a #1 goalie I don't believe the Avs score 6 on them, but also agree with your statement as well.

With Demko and DiPietro in the system, there's a pretty solid plan in place and JB is not rushing it.  Markstrom wasn't good but the D was lousy too.  Watch Demko become a regular once the defensive pairings are shored up a bit more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

how are we the model for rebuild lol we lucked out on Boeser..

#trollconfirmed

  • Hydration 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎5‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 4:46 AM, Jimmy McGill said:

I don't expect any picks tbh, I don't know that Del Zotto really has any value to a contending team. I guess maybe as extra extra depth. 

 

But thats fine, Benning has done a great job with what he's been given so as long as we have our 1st and 2nd round picks for 2019 that should bring some exciting talent, I'm hoping for 2 defence picks there.

 

I can see a Guddy deal with Toronto being a remote possibility, they have to have a tougher presence going into the playoffs. But it would be a long shot, Dubas probably wouldn't pay what Jim would demand.

 

I hope we don't trade Guddy! 

 

He signed a show me deal. 1 year. And was a pending UFA. And he played through injury which is noble while a pending UFA. He drove himself but was not at his best. He still clearly felt supported through the process. He obviously had honest dialogue with JB all the way through. Had good dialogue with the team, and ignored catcalls which were bewitching almost. I was soo impressed it finished up with a middle ground deal?

 

Now we're rewarded with a mobile, big physical D. Who stands up! Right now he's a big part of what success we're having.  Him and Hutton are playing top pair & playing well! 

 

I believe Erik deserves our loyalty!

 

I think he helps our rebuild.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2018-11-03 at 6:28 PM, luckylager said:

While I appreciate the sentiment and optimistic outlook, I feel like there are a number of very important things that need to happen before we can relish in the glow of a successful rebuild... and ultimately playoff success.

 

Goaltending proving itself as elite. I'm bummed for Demko, really wishing him health. He must be choked.

Dipietro could be a show stopper but is still a long ways out.

 

Defence (cha cha cha) Defence (cha cha cha)

Saw Demko on the weekend in Laval, he’s almsot ready, a week at most (five days now), he seems happy and ready to get back to business.  The guy they had in net was great though, a Russian I don’t know much about.  

  • Hydration 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

how are we the model for rebuild lol we lucked out on Boeser.. and Benning have to be praised for EP but other than that if Boeser doesn't become the scorer he is.. even with EP we are still a terrible team so i wouldn't say we are the model for rebuild.. a model rebuild would be trading away asset for picks which we never really did.. we prolly have the fewest draft picks of any rebuilding teams in recent years

The only luck we’ve had is bad luck with the lotto balls, the rest is a result of working hard to get the right picks and prospects in place.  Not to spell it out but we traded everyone we could, got a pick for Bieksa, and prospects for Burrows and Hansen (despite the clauses), but didn’t ask the Sedins or Edler...not exactly doing nothing.  Kesler and Luongo are on the other management, but we still got something for that too.  Shinkaruk looked funny playing with other Canuck Alumini Grenier in the AHL, and Bear has done a decent job of making Vey and his pick look like a wash.    Sooo...what was that you were saying again? 

 

I also wished for more, but understood that our hands were tied until the Sedins retired (and that we’d get nothing for them which is what it is), it wasn’t great, but it was a good job of making lemonade out of lemons. 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Boudrias said:

I think one could argue that the hiring of Linden and Benning was the beginning of the rebuild. Willie might have taken them to the playoffs the following season but in all reality that was a last gasp. Torts had it brutally right on his exit interview. The team had to get younger and had to have better talent. 

 

My critic of the rebuild has always been that it should have started in the summer of 2012, that is 6 years ago. The challenge then was to convert aging vets into replenishing the talent depth and breath. At that point the franchise was operating with no prospect pool. The future had been sacrificed for a serious CUP run which had come within a game of reality. Gillis had enough of a vision to buy an AHL franchise and put it in Utica. As an organization the lack of a AHL franchise was an essential fix. I will always give Gillis credit for that. Never the less the record in converting vets into future assets was poor to say the least under Gillis, Nonis and Benning. As a builder Benning has to be given serious props not just for his drafting. JB and ownership have invested big $'s in the nuts and bolts of an organization. Top notch facilities in Vancouver and Utica, expanded and accountable scouting, a reluctance to rush young talent into the NHL and a serious upgrade in personal throughout the org. Making the decision on Travis Green before losing him. 

 

As much as fans like to gauge the success of an org by making playoffs, it is important, the long term goal has to be winning a CUP. There is regular season success and there is playoff success. Two different seasons which do not always have the same priorities. As a long term Canuck fan I have seen to many examples of short term fixes for the sake of making playoffs. What I see with the Canucks is a more mature and patient approach to building a org that can go all the way to a CUP.   

It’s splitting hairs here, but I disagree. Rebuilding teams don’t put up 101pt seasons. 

 

If anything had Kesler stayed or opened up the trade market to beyond Anaheim, we would have a a solid team.  Kesler instead of Bones against Calgary? We win than series. 

 

We would have lost the next round but the first season under JB was not a rebuilding season. Maybe it should have been, but it wasn’t.  

 

The rebuild started the momment we lost that first round playoff series.  To be fair, the team had a lot of successful miles on it and maybe a coaching change or two could have gotten a bit more out of it. It didn’t work, but it wasn’t crazy.   

 

JB’s rebuild started with the Boeser draft, and has carried on.  A lot of promise from that draft table in the past 5 years. It will give Vancouver a lot of leverage at the trade table and with EP40, Brock and Bo the right kind of free agents will seek to play here. 

 

Whether it started with TL or when I believe it started, things have turned around and confidence is contagious.  Looks like Green and his players have caught a huge case of confidence and other teams are going to have to come up with a whole new way to deal with these upstarts. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

I hope we don't trade Guddy! 

 

He signed a show me deal. 1 year. And was a pending UFA. And he played through injury which is noble while a pending UFA. He drove himself but was not at his best. He still clearly felt supported through the process. He obviously had honest dialogue with JB all the way through. Had good dialogue with the team, and ignored catcalls which were bewitching almost. I was soo impressed it finished up with a middle ground deal?

 

Now we're rewarded with a mobile, big physical D. Who stands up! Right now he's a big part of what success we're having.  Him and Hutton are playing top pair & playing well! 

 

I believe Erik deserves our loyalty!

 

I think he helps our rebuild.

I really hope Guddy wants to stay. He was plucked from a young team that just turned a corner, only to crash spectacularly since.  I would hope the players in the room can see the magic building.

 

Story book careers can happen by having that guy on your team. EP40 is that guy, Bo is that guy and Brock is that guy. 

 

The players that are brought in to support and protect those guys will the players that get remembered.  Just ask Gino. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.