RUPERTKBD

Mass shooting at Thousand Oaks bar

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Just now, chon derry said:

dont throw any rocks!

isn't there an constitutional amendment that allows me to throw rocks? 

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Just now, Jimmy McGill said:

isn't there an constitutional amendment that allows me to throw rocks? 

just dont do it around border security or any high walls....

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7 minutes ago, cdubuya said:

no easy solutions. correct.

there are easy solutions. just not one's the politicians (who the public elect) or gun nuts will accept.

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1 minute ago, Stelar said:

there are easy solutions. just not one's the politicians (who the public elect) or gun nuts will accept.

For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. - H. L. Mencken

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4 hours ago, cdubuya said:

They have a huge problem and there is no easy solution.

Yeah there is.

The country I live in solved this problem.

We banned automatic weapons in the nineties after a mass shooting in Tasmania.

Now we do not have people randomly shooting people they do not know.

 

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1 hour ago, cdubuya said:

For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. - H. L. Mencken

Seems like a great spot for an irrelevant quote.  Great solution.  

 

People know what needs to be done.  Just because there is no stomach to do it doesn’t make it “complicated”. 

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5 hours ago, RUPERTKBD said:

I wanted to show this quote from someone who was there, because it supports what I have been saying about limiting magazine capacity:

 

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/calif-bar-shooting-witnesses-describe-escaping-as-gunman-reloaded/ar-BBPu7rT?li=AAggNb9&ocid=wispr

 

It's never been about preventing all of these events, or taking away people's guns....it's about saving as many lives as possible without infringing on those rights. Unfortunately, more people seem to be interested in telling everyone what won't work, rather than what will.

The problems with magazine restriction is that there are many ways to go around it. 

 

Most magazines with restricted capacities are just simply pinned with a screw that could easily be removed, or with some extra plastic piece where it could just be snapped off if wanted.

Plus it's very easy to just 3D print magazines nowadays, having some ban or restriction won't work on those who are out to break the law and to sow pain and destruction.  

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9 minutes ago, Lancaster said:

The problems with magazine restriction is that there are many ways to go around it. 

 

Most magazines with restricted capacities are just simply pinned with a screw that could easily be removed, or with some extra plastic piece where it could just be snapped off if wanted.

Plus it's very easy to just 3D print magazines nowadays, having some ban or restriction won't work on those who are out to break the law and to sow pain and destruction.  

Sure, someone who's determined to circumvent restrictive measures will find a way.

 

Still, I think most people would just go with the smaller magazine and maybe a few more people will escape....

 

...which was exactly my point.

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16 minutes ago, Stelar said:

Seems like a great spot for an irrelevant quote.  Great solution.  

 

People know what needs to be done.  Just because there is no stomach to do it doesn’t make it “complicated”. 

How is it an irrelavant quote? Gun control/violence is a very complex issue in the USA. Another poster compared the issue to Australia, which goes to show the level of analytical reasoning that is being demonstrated in this thread. The quote was stated by me as I believe it to be true. Commentators like you that claim that a complex issue has an easy solution are clearly wrong.

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It was bound to happen but this is the first time I am hearing about victims that have already experienced a traumatic shooting being victims again, almost a year apart too. 

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3 hours ago, Heretic said:

TBH, it just sucks.  It's depressing how we have evolved as a species.

 

Anyways, here's an interesting article on possibly reducing mass shootings:

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tarahaelle/2018/09/27/want-to-stop-mass-shootings-do-these-two-things-physician-says/#4ee466975501

Well thought out article backed by facts. So you know it will get ignored.

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6 hours ago, BPA said:

Just the price the US has to pay to have guns available to all.

 

:(

If you think guns aren’t available in Canada, you are sadly mistaken.  In my view that is a vastly oversimplified proposed explanation for what occurred.  It is best to find the individual explanation for each mass killing to find its cause.  Since many mass killings, especially in Europe, are committed with vehicles or other weapons, one has to look elsewhere for a more complete causal explanation than a mere incidental, such as the choice of means.  Since these acts are all committed by human beings that possess freewill - motivation is a key factor in these crimes.  Motivated people will find a means to perform their heinous acts.  One general factor that seems to be a factor is the level of homogenization of the society -   Multi-cultural societies, as opposed to ‘melting pot’ societies tend toward increasing alienation and division - a current example is the enormous increase in mass killings in Europe.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Ray_Cathode
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Why can't the focus get away from guns for a minute and onto why this veteran who may have seen untold horrors was not getting sufficient post-duty support and treatment inclusive of professional evaluation on ability to do things like own a firearm.   Seems someone is always found to be "post incident" having some form of anti-social tendency with some trigger - why can't the effort be put into finding support for these people?    What is a human life worth?   

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38 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Why can't the focus get away from guns for a minute and onto why this veteran who may have seen untold horrors was not getting sufficient post-duty support and treatment inclusive of professional evaluation on ability to do things like own a firearm.   Seems someone is always found to be "post incident" having some form of anti-social tendency with some trigger - why can't the effort be put into finding support for these people?    What is a human life worth?   

Agree rob.  A terrible tragedy has occurred.

 

but the veterans of the military who are left unsupported is too a tragedy.

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54 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Why can't the focus get away from guns for a minute and onto why this veteran who may have seen untold horrors was not getting sufficient post-duty support and treatment inclusive of professional evaluation on ability to do things like own a firearm.   Seems someone is always found to be "post incident" having some form of anti-social tendency with some trigger - why can't the effort be put into finding support for these people?    What is a human life worth?   

Heretic provided a link to a very thorough article from Forbes that listed two simple and effective policies that the American government could institute that could curb mass shootings. I suggest taking a look at it.

 

The first policy was the institution of thorough and comprehensive background checks, which if instituted at the federal level (if possible) would make the acquisition of a firearm far less easy than it is now.

 

The second of the two was "allowing courts to have firearms removed temporarily from people who pose an imminent hazard to others or themselves but are not members of a prohibited class". This speaks to probably every single mass shooter in existence.

 

Both are common sense initiatives that should be implemented.

 

I'd like to think that society on the whole is interested in helping solve and treat mental illness more effectively, but frankly, I see nowhere near enough being done to help those who are suffering.

Edited by PhillipBlunt
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1 hour ago, Ray_Cathode said:

If you think guns aren’t available in Canada, you are sadly mistaken.  In my view that is a vastly oversimplified proposed explanation for what occurred.  It is best to find the individual explanation for each mass killing to find its cause.  Since many mass killings, especially in Europe, are committed with vehicles or other weapons, one has to look elsewhere for a more complete causal explanation than a mere incidental, such as the choice of means.  Since these acts are all committed by human beings that possess freewill - motivation is a key factor in these crimes.  Motivated people will find a means to perform their heinous acts.  One general factor that seems to be a factor is the level of homogenization of the society -   Multi-cultural societies, as opposed to ‘melting pot’ societies tend toward increasing alienation and division - a current example is the enormous increase in mass killings in Europe.

 

 

 

 

Sorry for paraphrasing.  I'll use the exact quotes from former NRA president Harlon Carter after the Sandy Hook incident. 

 

Harlon Carter describes guns in the hands of those with violent intent as "the price we pay for freedom" .

 

He is opposed to gun legislation and background checks.

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4 minutes ago, BPA said:

Sorry for paraphrasing.  I'll use the exact quotes from former NRA president Harlon Carter after the Sandy Hook incident. 

 

Harlon Carter describes guns in the hands of those with violent intent as "the price we pay for freedom" .

 

He is opposed to gun legislation and background checks.

I wonder if that halfwit would feel the same if he had one pointed at him, dead to rites. Would he eat the bullet knowing he was paying the price?

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