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RUPERTKBD

USA Mass shooting thread

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1 hour ago, Alflives said:

I like the rules as you set them out, but would like to have actual gun use (safely) as part of the licensing process.  Maybe have people go through their FAC and then they have to go to a gun range and learn to use guns safely too?  The range provides the guns and the training.  It would be good business for them too. As it stands now, anyone can get their FAC and go out and get a long gun, ammo, and go blast away in the bush.   

Okay I'll put it this way.... If you don't know how to use a gun then maybe don't buy one.....

also wouldn't you go to a range before you go get your fac or pal....

i might add hunter safety covers all this.... 

How to handle your rifle and go threw fences and how to be a responsible hunter... 

Also to take the hunter safety you don't have to own a gun or have access to a gun. 

 

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Gun owners should demonstrate the ability to own a lethal weapon.

It should be a privilege not a right, just like driving a car.

Unfortunately every tootles illiterate moron can have a gun, because you know.....

 

Just because people with muskets were $&!#ting in the woods in the 1700th hundreds.

Doesn't mean I am going to do the same 250 years later.

 

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2 hours ago, CBH1926 said:

Gun owners should demonstrate the ability to own a lethal weapon.

It should be a privilege not a right, just like driving a car.

Unfortunately every tootles illiterate moron can have a gun, because you know.....

 

Just because people with muskets were $&!#ting in the woods in the 1700th hundreds.

Doesn't mean I am going to do the same 250 years later.

 

But But, I need my AR-15 to protect from gubmint tyranny.

 

Nevermind that they have drones that can fry anyone from a mile up in the clouds. :lol:

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2 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

But But, I need my AR-15 to protect from gubmint tyranny.

 

Nevermind that they have drones that can fry anyone from a mile up in the clouds. :lol:

Hicks that are armed to their teeth, lack the ability to process vital information like that.

I witnessed firsthand, people armed with old/small caliber guns and hunting rifles fighting against real army.

 

It was not pretty at first and casualties were tremendous.

Later on as more heavy weapons got acquired or captured, things evened out somewhat.

 

In this case, gun nuts would be dealing with most powerful military on the planet.

They would get vaporized in matter of days, fighting guerrilla style warfare is nothing like First Blood. 

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4 minutes ago, CBH1926 said:

Hicks that are armed to their (teeth) TOOTH, lack the ability to process vital information like that.

I witnessed firsthand, people armed with old/small caliber guns and hunting rifles fighting against real army.

 

It was not pretty at first and casualties were tremendous.

Later on as more heavy weapons got acquired or captured, things evened out somewhat.

 

In this case, gun nuts would be dealing with most powerful military on the planet.

They would get vaporized in matter of days, fighting guerrilla style warfare is nothing like First Blood. 

Fixed that for ya. ::D

Edited by nuckin_futz
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5 hours ago, RowdyCanuck said:

Okay I'll put it this way.... If you don't know how to use a gun then maybe don't buy one.....

also wouldn't you go to a range before you go get your fac or pal....

i might add hunter safety covers all this.... 

How to handle your rifle and go threw fences and how to be a responsible hunter... 

Also to take the hunter safety you don't have to own a gun or have access to a gun. 

 

FAC?

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44 minutes ago, CBH1926 said:

Hicks that are armed to their teeth, lack the ability to process vital information like that.

I witnessed firsthand, people armed with old/small caliber guns and hunting rifles fighting against real army.

 

It was not pretty at first and casualties were tremendous.

Later on as more heavy weapons got acquired or captured, things evened out somewhat.

 

In this case, gun nuts would be dealing with most powerful military on the planet.

They would get vaporized in matter of days, fighting guerrilla style warfare is nothing like First Blood. 

Considering that a ragtag bunch of zealots are able to inflict relatively significant casualties in the Middle East to US/NATO/Coalition forces.... it's safe to say that similar could be done.

 

Armed citizens probably won't ever be able to outright overthrow the US government... but it should hypothetically be so much of an annoyance to the power-that-be so they have to be a bit more honest in their actions.  At least that's how I would interpret one of the uses of the 2A.  

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2 hours ago, CBH1926 said:

Hicks that are armed to their teeth, lack the ability to process vital information like that.

I witnessed firsthand, people armed with old/small caliber guns and hunting rifles fighting against real army.

 

It was not pretty at first and casualties were tremendous.

Later on as more heavy weapons got acquired or captured, things evened out somewhat.

 

In this case, gun nuts would be dealing with most powerful military on the planet.

They would get vaporized in matter of days, fighting guerrilla style warfare is nothing like First Blood. 

There's  places called compounds ,

they usually have cults and such inside , they usually have enough guns for an small arm....

so I wouldn't just throw the armed hicks under the bus...

 

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22 hours ago, Lancaster said:

Considering that a ragtag bunch of zealots are able to inflict relatively significant casualties in the Middle East to US/NATO/Coalition forces.... it's safe to say that similar could be done.

 

Armed citizens probably won't ever be able to outright overthrow the US government... but it should hypothetically be so much of an annoyance to the power-that-be so they have to be a bit more honest in their actions.  At least that's how I would interpret one of the uses of the 2A.  

To be honest, insurgents in Iraq were mostly comprised of former Iraqi military.

Lot of fighters in Syria are veterans of Chechnya, Bosnia, Afghanistan, Kosovo wars etc.

Plus most are ready to die for their cause and religion.

 

On the other hand, lots of middle-aged out of shape dudes that like running around in camos and kids that like to play shooting video games.

Sure amongst all these militia right wing types there are military, law enforcement and survivalist types who would pose a challenge.

But honestly I don’t see most of them lasting too long after beer, snacks and fast food run out.

 

 

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11 hours ago, CBH1926 said:

To be honest, insurgents in Iraq were mostly comprised of former Iraqi military.

Lot of fighters in Syria are veterans of Chechnya, Bosnia, Afghanistan, Kosovo wars etc.

Plus most are ready to die for their cause and religion.

 

On the other hand, lots of middle-aged out of shape dudes that like running around in camos and kids that like to play shooting video games.

Sure amongst all these militia right wing types there are military, law enforcement and survivalist types who would pose a challenge.

But honestly I don’t see most of them lasting too long after beer, snacks and fast food run out.

 

 

Considering the size of the US armed forces... probably lots of vets and reserved mixed in.

They don't have to be outright conducting guerrilla warfare... they just need the numbers and sufficiently well-armed to be an pain in the posterior.  

 

Assuming the US has 300 million and a third of them are armed, thus 100 million people.  Assuming only 5% of them are outright willing to put their lives on the line.  That's still 5 million individual of different levels of expertise.  Plus having US soldiers attacking US citizens.... highly unlikely IMO.  

 

Many of the veterans of the post-cold war conflicts were originally just civilians thrust in positions where they had to take up arms.  

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https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/pensacola-shooting-4-dead-and-several-injured-at-naval-air-station/ar-BBXQTwp?li=AAggNb9

Quote

 

For the second time in two days, a deadly shooting unfolded at a U.S. Navy base when a gunman opened fire at Naval Air Station Pensacola on Friday.

Four people, including the shooter were killed, Sheriff David Morgan told reporters in a news conference, after two deputies engaged the shooter in a classroom building on the base. 

Both deputies were shot -- one in the arm and one in the knee. Both are expected to survive.

 

Eight people are receiving treatment at Baptist Health Care, Chief Deputy Chip Simmons said.

The base remains on lockdown, a Navy spokeswoman told CNN.

"Multiple injured personnel have been transported to local hospitals. We will continue to work closely with law enforcement agencies," Lt. Cmdr. Megan Isaac said in a statement.

Baptist Health Care received eight patients from the shooting, according to spokeswoman Kathy Bowers, who had no information on their conditions.

Friday's lockdown in Pensacola comes just two days after an active duty US sailor, Gabriel Romero, killed two civilian employees and injured another before killing himself at Pearl Harbor Naval Shipyard in Hawaii. Investigators have not announced a motive for the Wednesday shooting.

White House monitoring Pensacola shooting

President Donald Trump has been briefed on the Pensacola shooting, according to White House Deputy Press Secretary Judd Deere. The White House is monitoring the situation.

Naval Air Station Pensacola employs more than 16,000 military and 7,400 civilian personnel, according to the base's website. Many families also live there, said retired Rear Adm. John Kirby, CNN's military and diplomatic analyst, who was once stationed there.

"They love the base there," Kirby said of the sailors. "It's a great relationship between the people of Pensacola and the Navy and the base there. It's a terrific Navy town."

FBI personnel from Pensacola, Jacksonville and Mobile, Alabama, are responding to the station, an FBI spokeswoman said.

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis offered "full support to law enforcement" investigating the incident.

 

When mass shootings occur, I generally push back against the "mental health" argument, mainly because I see it as a convenient scapegoat and / or a means to deflect from the issue of too many guns in the hands of too many people who shouldn't have them, but in the case of the incidents at military bases, I think it's an important consideration.

 

While I don't know that particulars (and therefore the motive) for this attack, it seems clear to me that we have a poor understanding of the stresses that military personnel live with, especially those who have seen active combat.
 

I also think it's clear that the military needs to take a pretty serious look at how they deal with personnel and ex-personnel who have to live with this stress and the effect it can have on them.

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Mental health is a hugely convenient scapegoat. It's obviously a factor as nobody who is of sound mind goes and shoots a bunch of people for no reason. Canada has mental patients walking the street. So does Europe, Australia. Difference is guns aren't being sold in Walmarts and given away willy nilly at knucledragging redneck carnivals and the like. 

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12 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/pensacola-shooting-4-dead-and-several-injured-at-naval-air-station/ar-BBXQTwp?li=AAggNb9

When mass shootings occur, I generally push back against the "mental health" argument, mainly because I see it as a convenient scapegoat and / or a means to deflect from the issue of too many guns in the hands of too many people who shouldn't have them, but in the case of the incidents at military bases, I think it's an important consideration.

 

While I don't know that particulars (and therefore the motive) for this attack, it seems clear to me that we have a poor understanding of the stresses that military personnel live with, especially those who have seen active combat.
 

I also think it's clear that the military needs to take a pretty serious look at how they deal with personnel and ex-personnel who have to live with this stress and the effect it can have on them.

Considering that mass murder isn't really a "normal" mode of thinking for the average person, mental health issues should always be a factor to consider.  

This isn't to say one is automatically suffering from schizophrenia, depression or whatever.... "mental health" is a very complex issue and should be addressed more seriously regardless if one commits murder or not.  

 

Unless someone is like a terrorist or whatever, people just don't wake up one day and go "Oh hey, I'm totally gonna shoot a whole bunch of people because I feel like it" or "Look!  There's a gun lying around, so lets go postal!"

 

More need to be done to re-evaluate society as there are tons of factors that goes into play to push people over the edge.  Money, family, job security, substance abuse, faith, work-life balance, bullying, environmental factors, etc.... those are way way way more important to fix than firearms accessibility.  

Unfortunately there's too many barriers to fix some of the above... but gun control, that's a lower hanging fruit and makes people feel like warm and fuzzy, allow many to feel good without actually doing anything productive.  

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9 hours ago, RUPERTKBD said:

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/pensacola-shooting-4-dead-and-several-injured-at-naval-air-station/ar-BBXQTwp?li=AAggNb9

When mass shootings occur, I generally push back against the "mental health" argument, mainly because I see it as a convenient scapegoat and / or a means to deflect from the issue of too many guns in the hands of too many people who shouldn't have them, but in the case of the incidents at military bases, I think it's an important consideration.

 

While I don't know that particulars (and therefore the motive) for this attack, it seems clear to me that we have a poor understanding of the stresses that military personnel live with, especially those who have seen active combat.
 

I also think it's clear that the military needs to take a pretty serious look at how they deal with personnel and ex-personnel who have to live with this stress and the effect it can have on them.

Aviation student from Saudi Arabia, since we are in cahoots with them it will get swept under.

Also how are foreign nationals allowed to legally purchase weapons, it’s a disgrace.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2019/12/06/naval-station-pensacola-active-shooter/

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On 12/2/2019 at 6:12 PM, CBH1926 said:

Gun owners should demonstrate the ability to own a lethal weapon.

It should be a privilege not a right, just like driving a car.

Unfortunately every tootles illiterate moron can have a gun, because you know.....

Interesting article I came across recently referring to how Japan deals with guns in their society.  It mentions directly how they deal with what you call 'demonstrate the ability to own a lethal weapon'. 

 

Never mind if it's right/wrong/unconstitutional/or what you would do to someone if they tried to take away your guns, but I wonder how many people in our society (Canada/USA) would currently qualify for a firearm under these same criteria.......?

 

https://getpocket.com/explore/item/how-japan-has-almost-eradicated-gun-crime?utm_source=pocket-newtab

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On 12/2/2019 at 11:37 PM, RowdyCanuck said:

There's  places called compounds ,

they usually have cults and such inside , they usually have enough guns for an small arm....

so I wouldn't just throw the armed hicks under the bus...

 

That didn't work out so well for the Branch Davidian....

 

WACO = We ain't coming out......

Edited by RUPERTKBD
  • Burr 1

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1 hour ago, Fanuck said:

Interesting article I came across recently referring to how Japan deals with guns in their society.  It mentions directly how they deal with what you call 'demonstrate the ability to own a lethal weapon'. 

 

Never mind if it's right/wrong/unconstitutional/or what you would do to someone if they tried to take away your guns, but I wonder how many people in our society (Canada/USA) would currently qualify for a firearm under these same criteria.......?

 

https://getpocket.com/explore/item/how-japan-has-almost-eradicated-gun-crime?utm_source=pocket-newtab

Just read that earlier today.

 

I think my favorite bit was at the range and one of the empty shells wasn't accounted for. The locked the place down until it was found where it had fallen, behind a target.

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