Salacious Crumb Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 8 hours ago, oldnews said: Where does Willes come up with this 4 year timeline? That's daft wadr. The Jets drafted Scheiffele (7th overall) - (and Lowry) in 2011. Trouba (13) and Hellebuyck in 2012. Those were a pair of seasons with top 10 picks. That's pretty much 'rebuild' territory fwiw. Morrissey, Copp, Petan in 13 Ehlers (9) in 2014. Was that when the 'timeline' allegedly started? Connor, Roslovic 2015.....Laine 16. Is there anything about that article that actually makes sense? Rest his soul but Neil Macrae set the bar awfully low for sports reporters in this town. Why read Willes? He’s a clown and not worthy of the attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Canucks Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 9 hours ago, oldnews said: Where does Willes come up with this 4 year timeline? That's daft wadr. The Jets drafted Scheiffele (7th overall) - (and Lowry) in 2011. Trouba (13) and Hellebuyck in 2012. Those were a pair of seasons with top 10 picks. That's pretty much 'rebuild' territory fwiw. Morrissey, Copp, Petan in 13 Ehlers (9) in 2014. Was that when the 'timeline' allegedly started? Connor, Roslovic 2015.....Laine 16. Is there anything about that article that actually makes sense? Not to mention that, aside from Laine, all their picks needed time to develop to what they are now. I give Winnipeg credit for showing patience, something the media and some of the fans here seem to lack. It really is ironic and pathetic seeing some people here praising the likes of Winnipeg, who showed patience with their prospects, but can't seem to practice a little patience themselves when it comes to the Canucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomatoes11 Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 So linden got the blame for Benning taking 10 years to rebuild ? Should have fired Benning and Weisbrod too. 10 years is a long rebuild. 5 years already plus another 5 it seems. Giving away high 2nd and 3rd round picks like water definitely didn’t help. And crap like Forsling for Clendenning was terrible. They all should have been fired, not just Linden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phat Fingers Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 Linden left, and until Linden speaks to why, with candour, this is all speculation. As for Willies timeline a major development occurred after Lindens departure that throws those timeline estimates out the window. Had EP40 not emerged as the legit player he is, Willes’ estimate would be fine, but that grand slam pick is going to speed things up. I see this year as a team that has the offence to compete each game, but lacks the defence and goaltending to close out games and make the playoffs. Give this team a decent defence that can defend and move the puck along with a steady consistent goalie, we are in a much improved position. As the last draft indicated, JB has defence as his top priority and so it should be. He also indicated that he is satisfied with our current goalie prospects. Hughes, OJ and Woo address some huge holes on our defence. Two of those three should be playing on our backline next season. Goalies Demko and Dipeitro are very promissing. Demko played for the first time after his concussion. If he hadn’t been injured he could be our starting goalie now. The job is there to be taken as no one is doing enough to hold it. Dipeitro will turn pro next season and I think he will be another AHL dominant goalie. Lots of FA options for defence this coming offseason. That along with some young talented d prospects JB will be able to build a defence that should fully take shape 2 years from now. I don’t see MDZ, Hutton or Pouliot here. If Edler stays it will be a good cap hit. Tanev, JB says he wants to keep him, but he is a higher cap hit and is injured every season. Guddy and Stecher. I want to keep them around. Guddy for his brawn. Stecher for his compete level. They can fill roles and as RHD, they have a increased value. Tree, damn, we would not be in this hole has Tree not taken his ball and go home. He would push Pouliot and MDZ out, possibly Hutton. That gaping hole in the lineup has truly impacted the last two seasons. EP40 will change the way FA’s look at Vancouver. So will Hughes. So will Demko. So will Bo. Those are some key guys in key positions. I would love to jettison both Goalies, sign a guy like Miller (not Miller, but a solid older veteran starter of quality that can stabilize the net and not stand in a younger guys way) and bring up Demko. Give Hughes free reign and Give OJ a fair shot next year. Resign Edler keep Guddy, Stecher and Tanev. Hutton could go either way, but I would rather have a solid FA or Tree back. If a big name FA wants to come here, great, move Tanev and or Edler. That is better than this year, and even with growing pains that defence will be able to move the puck so much better than this years version. That alone would be enough with our forwards to be a playoff team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salacious Crumb Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 2 hours ago, Tomatoes11 said: So linden got the blame for Benning taking 10 years to rebuild ? Should have fired Benning and Weisbrod too. 10 years is a long rebuild. 5 already plus at another 5 it seems. Giving away high 2nd and 3rd round picks like water definitely didn’t help. And crap like Forsling for Clendenning was terrible. They all should have been fired, not just Linden. What 2nd and 3rd were given away? Where are Forsling and Clendinning? Why fire the 2 guys responsible for our above average drafting the last 5 years? Do you work for 1040? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 2 hours ago, Phat Fingers said: Linden left, and until Linden speaks to why, with candour, this is all speculation. As for Willies timeline a major development occurred after Lindens departure that throws those timeline estimates out the window. Had EP40 not emerged as the legit player he is, Willes’ estimate would be fine, but that grand slam pick is going to speed things up. I see this year as a team that has the offence to compete each game, but lacks the defence and goaltending to close out games and make the playoffs. Give this team a decent defence that can defend and move the puck along with a steady consistent goalie, we are in a much improved position. As the last draft indicated, JB has defence as his top priority and so it should be. He also indicated that he is satisfied with our current goalie prospects. Hughes, OJ and Woo address some huge holes on our defence. Two of those three should be playing on our backline next season. Goalies Demko and Dipeitro are very promissing. Demko played for the first time after his concussion. If he hadn’t been injured he could be our starting goalie now. The job is there to be taken as no one is doing enough to hold it. Dipeitro will turn pro next season and I think he will be another AHL dominant goalie. Lots of FA options for defence this coming offseason. That along with some young talented d prospects JB will be able to build a defence that should fully take shape 2 years from now. I don’t see MDZ, Hutton or Pouliot here. If Edler stays it will be a good cap hit. Tanev, JB says he wants to keep him, but he is a higher cap hit and is injured every season. Guddy and Stecher. I want to keep them around. Guddy for his brawn. Stecher for his compete level. They can fill roles and as RHD, they have a increased value. Tree, damn, we would not be in this hole has Tree not taken his ball and go home. He would push Pouliot and MDZ out, possibly Hutton. That gaping hole in the lineup has truly impacted the last two seasons. EP40 will change the way FA’s look at Vancouver. So will Hughes. So will Demko. So will Bo. Those are some key guys in key positions. I would love to jettison both Goalies, sign a guy like Miller (not Miller, but a solid older veteran starter of quality that can stabilize the net and not stand in a younger guys way) and bring up Demko. Give Hughes free reign and Give OJ a fair shot next year. Resign Edler keep Guddy, Stecher and Tanev. Hutton could go either way, but I would rather have a solid FA or Tree back. If a big name FA wants to come here, great, move Tanev and or Edler. That is better than this year, and even with growing pains that defence will be able to move the puck so much better than this years version. That alone would be enough with our forwards to be a playoff team. Be hilarious if we sign Bobrovsky and Karlsson this summer on top of a likely top 15 (*crosses fingers* or lotto) pick. Signing those UFA's let's you play part of the season with a Bob/Marky tandem, keep Demko in Utica for part of the year and move Marky/recall Demko when a team runs in to goalie injuries. Ditto moving Tanev. We'd have a RIDICULOUSLY good/deep team with killer puck transition and could move loads of assets for further futures to keep supplementing from below. Yes please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 10 hours ago, Salacious Crumb said: Rest his soul but Neil Macrae set the bar awfully low for sports reporters in this town. Why read Willes? He’s a clown and not worthy of the attention. Yes absolutely - Neil Macrae blew miserable smoke for a living - and has a gaggle of successors. This is one of the dumbest, most confused, poorly conceived articles I've read in a while - and that's saying something in this market where those things are signature media currency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 Imo, if we're going to make these kind of rose-coloured (Wpg) vs crap goggles (Van) 'comparisons' then we should look at the larger picture. It wasn't all roses on the path to contending for the Jets. Wpg gave up a 3rd (that became John Hayden for the Hawks) and 5th for Michael Frolik. Arguably a good enough deal for Wpg, but that was in 2013 when they were most certainly 'rebuilding/rethinging' and not sure how the cookie cutter, 'stockpile allz da pickzzz' crowd would spin that into #proper-rebuild terms lol Wpg gave up a 2nd round pick for Devin Setoguchi - again in the summer of 2013 - and that was most certainly a bad deal for them in the end (DS did very little - ie 11 g/27p - for the Jets) Jets have given up picks for Jay Harrison (2014), Jiri Tlusty (2015).... Now, of course, it's the height of micro-whining to dwell on what over the years are relatively minor 'losses' - 'losses' that every single franchise that does business will incur in the process of doing business / taking risks in order to attempt to improve their team. Sandwiched in between those deals were a few that helped propel the Jets - obviously the Kane, Byfuglien deal that brought Myers, Armia, Stafford, Lemieux and a 1st (I believet that is now Jack Roslovic).....and the Ladd deal that brought Dano and a 1st (which they traded up to get Logan Stanley). In any event - the point is that there is no #proper-rebuild - the Jets hit some obvious speed bumps in the process - they arguably underachieved through parts of it - particularly missing the playoffs in 15/16 (and winding up with Laine as a result of an 'accidental tank') - and again in 16/17 - when they were again a paper-playoff team but underachieved under Maurice - leading to a second wave of futures that are now mistaken as if they were the principals in a master-plan 'rebuild'. Laughable 'account' of their 'rebuild' by Willes wadr - which took a couple 'waves' from 2011 to present to wind up with the depth of youth they now have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Canucks Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 3 hours ago, aGENT said: Be hilarious if we sign Bobrovsky and Karlsson this summer on top of a likely top 15 (*crosses fingers* or lotto) pick. Signing those UFA's let's you play part of the season with a Bob/Marky tandem, keep Demko in Utica for part of the year and move Marky/recall Demko when a team runs in to goalie injuries. Ditto moving Tanev. We'd have a RIDICULOUSLY good/deep team with killer puck transition and could move loads of assets for further futures to keep supplementing from below. Yes please! The problem with that is that this is Demko's final year of his ELC. He would require waivers next year. So, he is staying with us next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 7 minutes ago, The Great Canucks said: The problem with that is that this is Demko's final year of his ELC. He would require waivers next year. So, he is staying with us next season. https://www.capfriendly.com/waivers-calculator/thatcher-demko#results Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomatoes11 Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 12 hours ago, Salacious Crumb said: What 2nd and 3rd were given away? Where are Forsling and Clendinning? Why fire the 2 guys responsible for our above average drafting the last 5 years? Do you work for 1040? 2nd for bear$&!# 2nd for the legendary Linden Vey. whoot! 3rd AND Kassian for Prust 2nd or a 3rd for Dorsett clendenning is done and forsling would have been way better than almost all of our current D. and drafting has only been average . Ie picking Virtanen and juolevi . And even if it is considered above average drafting, it doesn’t make up for the terrible value we get back in our trades and signings and a rebuild that has already been 5 years with quite poor results besides pettersen and Boeser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salacious Crumb Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 2 hours ago, Tomatoes11 said: 2nd for bear$&!# 2nd for the legendary Linden Vey. whoot! 3rd AND Kassian for Prust 2nd or a 3rd for Dorsett clendenning is done and forsling would have been way better than almost all of our current D. and drafting has only been average . Ie picking Virtanen and juolevi . And even if it is considered above average drafting, it doesn’t make up for the terrible value we get back in our trades and signings and a rebuild that has already been 5 years with quite poor results besides pettersen and Boeser. JB has wiffed a couple of times but a .300 hitter in baseball makes tens of millions in a career. A 2nd for Bear is found money. The Kassian trade had to happen and the Dorsett trade was good value until he broke his neck. Vey was questionable however given his circumstances he may have otherwise performed better. fyi Forsling is playing in the AHL so... I’m not sure if you’re trolling or being wilfully obtuse but we will have to agree to disagree on the direction of the team. We are on track for 75 pts this year but I will bet you a beer we get 90 next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appleboy Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 The problem for Benning will be owners expectations. If this club struggles this year and it will. Will he be tempted to move picks for help. You can't rush a rebuild. If they rush it it will only set them back further. Every year that they don't take advantage of moving out vets for picks just makes them worth less. I think we are 4 years away at best case scenario. We can forget the idea of Benning trading players like Sutter, Tanev and so on.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoasting Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 10 hours ago, Tomatoes11 said: 2nd for bear$&!# 2nd for the legendary Linden Vey. whoot! 3rd AND Kassian for Prust 2nd or a 3rd for Dorsett clendenning is done and forsling would have been way better than almost all of our current D. and drafting has only been average . Ie picking Virtanen and juolevi . And even if it is considered above average drafting, it doesn’t make up for the terrible value we get back in our trades and signings and a rebuild that has already been 5 years with quite poor results besides pettersen and Boeser. You're brilliant, you should apply for a job in management with the Nucks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 Quote 3rd AND Kassian for Prust It was actually a 5th in that deal. Not a 3rd. We traded a 3rd + Mallet for Pedan who we later flipped (while adding a 4th) for pouliot 8 hours ago, Salacious Crumb said: fyi Forsling is playing in the AHL so... He’s actually in the NHL. He suffered a wrist injury this summer and missed the start of the year. He played 5 games in the AHL this year basically to get him back into game shape. Since being called up he’s averaged 16:33 and has 2 assists in four games. I know Jeremy is really high on the kid and not just his offensive upside. He thinks he brings a complete all around game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Kneel Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 Laine tips the scales for sure, there are 5 players I'd have taken over OJ, and 21 can go kick rocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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