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[Trade] Canucks trade Michael Carcone to Maple Leafs for Josh Leivo

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38 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

Yeah, don't get me wrong fellas, I am quite happy to add Leivo and hope he is a hidden gem, and time will tell, if he is a good addition or not, but the addition was initiated by Benning as per the media stories...to me that speaks volumes, and shouldn't be ignored.

 

It should also be noted that Leivo was basically not worth keeping on a top end, Toronto team, which says a lot about where we are, and not so much about Leivo. "IF" he turns in a late developer, and fits in well with Horvat or Pettersson, that would be fantastic, and I commend Benning for making the trade (IMO an upgrade in assets). The comments out of Toronto is that he has some game, and if he ever turned into a late developing top 2 LW, I would be elated. 

 

But again, as I look at who responded to my last comment, you guys above most others, should know that there has been a big void at LW, as all that have had auditions in that spot have

in one way or another come up short in one aspect or another.

 

Not trying to be half empty here, just pointing out what I feel is the obvious statement by Benning adding Leivo……..not that he would or would not be a good addition.

There's no doubt that Benning is trying to address the whole currently left by Baertschi, but I don't think it's as extreme as suggesting we have a major LW problem that runs through our entire system. We could have gone for a waiver option, but IMO Leivo is likely better than the waiver options that had been available and move a piece to ensure he gets the guy versus another team that could use the help as well if he hit waivers. LA is swiping everyone they can and St Louis is running into injury problems. Leivo is on a very cheap contract that would attract teams. So to me Benning made the first move because he saw the chance at getting good value and could help a current need as well. It's just Benning doing his job rather than any statement IMO.

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1 hour ago, janisahockeynut said:

I think this trade say volumes about our LW situation...…..long term

 

what it means to me is...………………...

 

1. Baertschi's concussions are becoming a real concern to Benning

2. Benning isn't sold on Goldobin

3. Dahlen is not showing any adjustment in Utica

4. Gadjovich is years away, if ever...……...

5. None of the veteran incumbent's are being considered

 

I don't think that is news or anything, but just think it is a state of the union address

 

Watch for the Canucks to draft a LW/C or a LW with their first pick, someone that can play the boards

well, has hockey IQ, and the speed to play with Pettersson. That or they go after a UFA in Panarin or Stone.

 

Or both the pick and the UFA, because honestly...…..I am not sure there is either a 1st line LW or a honest 2nd line LW on that list....

 

Time will tell!

I think you're getting way ahead of yourself.

 

This says absolutely nothing about Benning's perspective regarding Goldobin.  Teams need 4 LW - this team is missing Baertschi and waived Leipsic, simple as that - while Pettersson is proving ready to play center at the NHL level (and moving him to wing is not an option in any event as the team lacks to veteran centers).

 

You're also way off on Dahlen - don't appear to be tracking him:

 

"Johnson : Dahlen is doing well. We have given him every resource possible and he is taking full advantage of that. Improving his game and understanding the little things is what he is going through right now. "

 

Folks have this tendency to pretend to be able to write-off prospects at the quarter-pole of rookie AHL seasons.

 

Gadjovich is a 19/20 yr old.   Rinse and repeat.

 

The veteran 'incumbents' were brought in to play shutdown, period.  Roussel, Schaller - are prototypical 'bottom 6' forwards, period.  Beagle is a center - a hard-minutes, shutdown center.  Again, the Leivo acquisiton has literally nothing to do with these players.

 

The team needed a winger capable of playing a solid two way game, going to the hard areas,  forechecking - and this was a low cost option - that makes perfect transition sense, and who could thrive - you just don't know until you try/see him here.   He's an option to play dual duty on a Horvat line, or he's an option to play middle six enabling them to elevate a player like Granlund.

The entirety of your post is an over-projection of the meaning of a single, relatively minor deal.

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15 minutes ago, coryberg said:

Just maybe

Peter Parker Reading a Book 04122018113929.jpg

Reading comprehension huh?

 

Too bad a I read here first Leipsic got claimed...  :P

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4 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

Any player deserves a shot if he can prove to the coach he deserves it with appropriate work rate and performance.

 

But I also agree with Pav below. Just because we have a new shiny toy.  May not automatically mean he is top 6 material? Bo, like when Kesler played more minutes than Hank (every year) is hands down our 2C.  And the most important player ATM. Because he lets Pettersson be deployed favorably. And handles defensive deployments while Sutter & Beagle are out. 

 

I like this cautionary not.  Lets let the coach decide if he's a top 6 forward.

 

What I can say with a similar cautionary certainty? If he was not a top 6 forward at age 25 in Toronto. He probably wont be a lock down top 6 here. 

 

But we are not as strong a team. And there is a good probability he can play some top 6 minutes here! I like the pick up!  

I think he will play top six minutes for us, and might come out strong out of the gate but long term as our team improves and injured bodies come back he is not a top 6 player on a playoff team. If he could become a solid third liner that can pot in 10-15 goals a season, i still think this deal has to be considered a steal.

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2 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

I think this trade say volumes about our LW situation...…..long term

 

what it means to me is...………………...

 

1. Baertschi's concussions are becoming a real concern to Benning

2. Benning isn't sold on Goldobin

3. Dahlen is not showing any adjustment in Utica

4. Gadjovich is years away, if ever...……...

5. None of the veteran incumbent's are being considered

 

I don't think that is news or anything, but just think it is a state of the union address

 

Watch for the Canucks to draft a LW/C or a LW with their first pick, someone that can play the boards

well, has hockey IQ, and the speed to play with Pettersson. That or they go after a UFA in Panarin or Stone.

 

Or both the pick and the UFA, because honestly...…..I am not sure there is either a 1st line LW or a honest 2nd line LW on that list....

 

Time will tell!

I dont think this trade is the result of the issues listed above nor addresses those issues. I'm sure the organization is aware of the need for a top line LW to play with either Bo or Petey as well as top pairing RD. Trading Carcone will not generate the return to solve those problems. 

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10 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

I think he will play top six minutes for us, and might come out strong out of the gate but long term as our team improves and injured bodies come back he is not a top 6 player on a playoff team. If he could become a solid third liner that can pot in 10-15 goals a season, i still think this deal has to be considered a steal.

Probably will play some top 6...

 

As someone else pointed out, we had Schaller playing top 6 minutes recently. I personally see Leivo better defined as middle 6.  But I've been wrong before. And I like your projection looking forward to a 3rd liner potting 10 or 15 goals. I wont be holding him back if he can do more!

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13 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Here's another CDC short-story favorite....

 

Chapter 1:

Just play the kidz!!

 

Chapter 2: (2 weeks later....)

Forget the transition:  where are the resultz!! 

The kidz aren't winning yet!  Find me a whipping-boyz!

 

Chapter 3 (maybe even chapter 2).

Er, uh.....Fire the coach!!

 

Addendum:  claim all the waiverz!

 

Bibliography: Countless CDC whinge-threads.

 

 

Oh my, thisssss

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1 hour ago, janisahockeynut said:

Yeah, don't get me wrong fellas, I am quite happy to add Leivo and hope he is a hidden gem, and time will tell, if he is a good addition or not, but the addition was initiated by Benning as per the media stories...to me that speaks volumes, and shouldn't be ignored.

 

It should also be noted that Leivo was basically not worth keeping on a top end, Toronto team, which says a lot about where we are, and not so much about Leivo. "IF" he turns in a late developer, and fits in well with Horvat or Pettersson, that would be fantastic, and I commend Benning for making the trade (IMO an upgrade in assets). The comments out of Toronto is that he has some game, and if he ever turned into a late developing top 2 LW, I would be elated. 

 

But again, as I look at who responded to my last comment, you guys above most others, should know that there has been a big void at LW, as all that have had auditions in that spot have

in one way or another come up short in one aspect or another.

 

Not trying to be half empty here, just pointing out what I feel is the obvious statement by Benning adding Leivo……..not that he would or would not be a good addition.

I think you're overanalyzing this.

 

Benning's job is to improve the team in any way that he can, WITHOUT disrupting the current team. If it doesn't work, he starts over on a clean slate next year, presuming he stays. I think his job is very very safe now.

 

I think it's not hard to see that Nylander is worth more than Leivo. Toronto needs the roster space. Many Toronto fans say Leivo is a good player. How good is he? Nobody really knows.

 

Leipsic couldn't get the job done. Now it's Leivo's turn. Goldobin is still a really good player right now, and unless Leivo can outproduce him, Goldobin is still going to be on the top 6.

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Played 3 seasons for Trent Cull in the OHL.

 

I'm sure he had some input on Leivo.

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23 hours ago, Pickly said:

Yeah how dare they move an AHL’er for an NHL’er.

He is still a plug, a 4th line plug that will probably be sent down to the Comets

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11 minutes ago, philtbc829 said:

He is still a plug, a 4th line plug that will probably be sent down to the Comets

Alright Phil. How many of Leivo’s games have you seen and please, can you give me a reasonable argument as to why he won’t find some success here in Vancouver? 

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10 minutes ago, Pickly said:

Alright Phil. How many of Leivo’s games have you seen and please, can you give me a reasonable argument as to why he won’t find some success here in Vancouver? 

200.gif

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3 hours ago, Tortorella's Rant said:

Only on this forum does a minor league trade generate a 21+ page thread..

well it gets off topic sometimes.

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4 hours ago, stawns said:

I agree about thepp's.  When I coach, I preach to players that they shouldn't change their play all that much on the pp, aside from always making sure they have the number advantage around the puck. If you play the pp a little closer to 5v5 style, you force the pk'ers to play that way as well and you make them move, engage and get out of position

I found that a key advantage (criminally underused, imo) of a powerplay is forcing the defenders to move. Use their own fatigue against them. Defensively, a player in great condition is only going to be really effective for 30 seconds or so of maximum burst energy, and even that's someone in GREAT condition; the more they've been out there, the lower that number. Board battles, chasing the puck, all make that number drop until mental mistakes become the new norm.

 

Anybody watching Del Zotto on defence knows that when mental mistakes happen, the puck usually finds its way into the net shortly thereafter.

 

Puck down low, out high, keep players rotating around. The Sedin powerplay was so effective for so long (until they became slower than Dana Murzyn) because when in the zone, it would get guys chasing them or their strong side D partner for 20 seconds or more and just totally cook them until it was basically a 5 on 3/2.5.

 

Hockey is a game of motion, so any team or line who stops that motion is immediately at a disadvantage... like us, offensively.

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33 minutes ago, brownky said:

I found that a key advantage (criminally underused, imo) of a powerplay is forcing the defenders to move. Use their own fatigue against them. Defensively, a player in great condition is only going to be really effective for 30 seconds or so of maximum burst energy, and even that's someone in GREAT condition; the more they've been out there, the lower that number. Board battles, chasing the puck, all make that number drop until mental mistakes become the new norm.

 

Anybody watching Del Zotto on defence knows that when mental mistakes happen, the puck usually finds its way into the net shortly thereafter.

 

Puck down low, out high, keep players rotating around. The Sedin powerplay was so effective for so long (until they became slower than Dana Murzyn) because when in the zone, it would get guys chasing them or their strong side D partner for 20 seconds or more and just totally cook them until it was basically a 5 on 3/2.5.

 

Hockey is a game of motion, so any team or line who stops that motion is immediately at a disadvantage... like us, offensively.

Yeah.... really noticed that slow-down in motion lately.... early on the guys were flying and creating all sorts of options. Now very static too focused on trying to set-up the one-timer Petterson or Boeser ... too predictable and easier to shot-block.

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Guys

 

My position on Leivo is one of...hey great trade.....I hope he turns out...…..nothing less...….hoping his potential was held back and he clicks here...….

 

On Goldobin...…..he is young and yes he has up side...….but he shows little ability on puck retrieval, has very little defensive positioning and drafted 4 years ago, and is only a "potential" top 6 player...…..as I believe we should have a much better LWer player 1st line LW....it's my opinion...………..

 

As for Dahlen...….he will be 21 this month, has played professional hockey, and has 13 points in 23 games in the AHL...…...most 1st line players, are well ahead of that curve, in their draft +4 year...……...again he has potential, but is slow showing it as a potential 1st line LW....a lot of juniors show at a point per game in their first year out of junior in the "A" .I am speaking of 1st line NHL candidates

 

As for Baertschi, respectfully he is a #2 line LWer at best, and he is now a 2X? concussed LWer, who has just started to skate again...…….

 

Gadjovich, has to pick up his skating to even be a AHL regular at this point, and it has been said so many times, much more learned people than myself...……..

(I might  be a little harder on him than any of the others.....I loved the pick at the time, and still hope all will turn out...he has time)

 

BUT in saying all this...………..not one has proven he can not do the job, and all 5 have the potential to improve and prove me wrong...….which as a Canuck fan, I would love if they all would

improve and again prove me wrong...…..

 

I don't think I have ever hidden my views on these players and Benning should be concerned, there is a lot of uncertainty with the #1 LW position

 

 

 

 

 

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17 hours ago, Where'd Luongo? said:

Does this have something to do with Baertschi?

Sven has a bad concussion and now has a history with it.  I would almost not expect to see him this year.  Doesn't seem like he can stay healthy.  The nucks are probably already moving past him. 

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13 hours ago, riffraff said:

I recall the panel saying something along those lines but I have never heard the franchise say as such.

Makes you wonder with his benching tonight?

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On 12/3/2018 at 1:43 PM, Shift-4 said:

What kind of disinfectant is required to get the leaf filth off of him?

Clobbering Kadri would do it.

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