Huawei CFO arrested.

[prix57]

Is this a retaliatory move by PRC?

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/kovrig-detained-china-tuesday-1.4940725

 

Ex-Canadian diplomat Michael Kovrig detained in China

International Crisis Group 'doing everything possible' to find its employee, secure release

Thomson Reuters · Posted: Dec 11, 2018 9:13 AM ET | Last Updated: 34 minutes ago

 

The detention of Canadian Michael Kovrig follows the arrest in Canada of the chief financial officer of China's Huawei Technologies Co Ltd on Dec. 1. Meng Wanzhou's bail hearing continues Tuesday in Vancouver.(International Crisis Group)

205 comments

 

A former Canadian diplomat has been detained in China, two sources said on Tuesday, and his current employer, the International Crisis Group, said it was seeking his prompt and safe release.

Michael Kovrig's detention comes after police in Canada arrested the chief financial officer of China's Huawei Technologies Co Ltd on Dec. 1 at the request of U.S. authorities, a move that infuriated Beijing.

It was not immediately clear if the cases were related, but the arrest of Huawei CFO Meng Wanzhou in Vancouver has stoked fears of reprisals against the foreign business community in China.

• China's threats over Huawei CFO's arrest rattle Canadian business

• China exerting pressure on Canada, U.S. ahead of Huawei CFO hearing

• Concerns percolating over Huawei's 'leverage' over Canadian cybersecurity

"International Crisis Group is aware of reports that its North East Asia Senior Adviser, Michael Kovrig, has been detained in China," the think-tank said in a statement.

"We are doing everything possible to secure additional information on Michael's whereabouts as well as his prompt and safe release," it added.

China's Foreign Ministry and Ministry of Public Security did not respond immediately to questions faxed earlier about Kovrig's detention.

The exact reason for the detention was not immediately clear.

The Canadian Embassy declined to comment, referring queries to Ottawa.

Calls to Kovrig's phones were not answered.

• Status of Huawei CFO's husband questioned as he tries to post bail for wealthy wife

• B.C. trade mission trip to China derailed in wake of Huawei executive's arrest

• Chinese-Canadian group defends detained Huawei CFO

Kovrig, a Mandarin speaker, has been working as a full-time expert for the International Crisis Group since February 2017.

From 2003 to 2016, he worked as a diplomat with stints in Beijing and Hong Kong, among others, according to his profile on LinkedIn.

 

 

 

 

[-DLC-]

On 12/8/2018 at 1:02 AM, smokes said:

In Canada, it depends on your skin color and where you are on the social ladder. Look at the amount of missing women on Main and Hastings that still have not been found because people don't care. Many Natives are still fighting to keep the reserves that the government gave them in the first place. What bugs me is that when anything about China comes up everyone starts talking about it's human rights record. I don't hear about Canadians complain about the human rights abuses in the US. Things like there are more people locked up in the US than any other countries, that there are kids locked up in adult jails. If Canadians are going to talk about China's human rights record in this situation then it is only fair to drag the US's in with it. 

What a joke this is.

 

Canada is one of the most tolerant, accepting and respecting of many nations.   It's what gets us used by those wanting to flee, hide, pass through, exploit, etc.

 

You shift from Canada to the US..hmm.

 

The US isn't threatening us, China is.  On the ridiculous claim that we're violating human rights.  Because we're helping to go after  suspected criminals who are hiding behind this country's (too) lax policies.  Just passing through. 

 

It's a common theme here at the moment.  And it's high time to address it.  Whether or not we're "threatened" in the process. 

[smokes]

7 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

What a joke this is.

 

Canada is one of the most tolerant, accepting and respecting of many nations.   It's what gets us used by those wanting to flee, hide, pass through, exploit, etc.

 

You shift from Canada to the US..hmm.

 

The US isn't threatening us, China is.  On the ridiculous claim that we're violating human rights.  Because we're helping to go after  suspected criminals who are hiding behind this country's (too) lax policies.  Just passing through. 

 

It's a common theme here at the moment.  And it's high time to address it.  Whether or not we're "threatened" in the process. 

I am sure that Canada is a tolerant, accepting and respecting country for you but we grew up differently. You may have a more tolerant view than others but that doesn't mean that everyone is like that. On the streets, if anything goes wrong, it is easiest to blame the Asians. Just look at the boards themselves. If there is a chance to attack Chinese people on this boards, there are certain people who jump at that chance and use the same insults over and over again. 

 

In regards to the violation of human rights comment, my question is why is it that people like to bring up China's human rights record so much yet gives the US a pass? If Canada likes to be a country who likes to take the moral high road then people should be defending human rights in every country. Problem is that people only like to do that with the Chinese. 

[JM_]

11 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Can't Canada just send her to the Saudi embassy?    

if we wanted to act like China thats what we'd probably do.

 

I figured it wouldn't be long before some poor Canadian dude got detained, now its happened: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/kovrig-detained-china-tuesday-1.4940725

 

China wants to 'kill the chicken and scare the monkey' (we're the chicken, US in the monkey) but we can't let them stop our legal processes. The US also needs to have our back on this, if they leave us hanging then next time they call for our help in detaining someone the phone can go unanswered. Time for Trumps administration to step up for us if they want our help. 

[JM_]

30 minutes ago, smokes said:

I am sure that Canada is a tolerant, accepting and respecting country for you but we grew up differently. You may have a more tolerant view than others but that doesn't mean that everyone is like that. On the streets, if anything goes wrong, it is easiest to blame the Asians. Just look at the boards themselves. If there is a chance to attack Chinese people on this boards, there are certain people who jump at that chance and use the same insults over and over again. 

 

In regards to the violation of human rights comment, my question is why is it that people like to bring up China's human rights record so much yet gives the US a pass? If Canada likes to be a country who likes to take the moral high road then people should be defending human rights in every country. Problem is that people only like to do that with the Chinese. 

Thats hardly the case at all. Canada calls out many countries for abhorrent behaviour. 

 

Yes of course some people in all countries are racist. In my last trip to China, two different cab drivers refused to pick up me and my partner because we are white (we know this because our guide told us what the cabbies said to him, literally I don't want white people in my cab). But I don't view all of China as racist, we met so many great people there otherwise. 

 

The fact is, the Chinese government does not always like to follow international law or standards of human rights. That doesn't mean me or anyone else is racist for pointing out an objective fact. It also doesn't erase China's actions because some other country does it too. 

Edited December 11, 2018 by Jimmy McGill

[smokes]

8 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

 

The fact is, the Chinese government does not always like to follow international law or standards of human rights. That doesn't mean me or anyone else is racist for pointing out an objective fact. It also doesn't erase China's actions because some other country does it too. 

I respect that, but what I don't respect is when people come out and call out everyone who is of Chinese ethnicity for something most of us have nothing to do with. When people come out and say the Chinese did this and the Chinese did that. I'm Canadian but I am of Chinese ethnicity, I have never did this or did that but yet I feel like this blanket term "The Chinese" is directed at me because I am part of that race.

[RUPERTKBD]

42 minutes ago, smokes said:

In regards to the violation of human rights comment, my question is why is it that people like to bring up China's human rights record so much yet gives the US a pass? If Canada likes to be a country who likes to take the moral high road then people should be defending human rights in every country. Problem is that people only like to do that with the Chinese. 

Is that what you believe?

 

Did you somehow miss all the drama that occurred after Chrystia Freeland (and the JT) criticized Saudi Arabia for their arrest of Women's rights protesters? How about Trudeau's criticism of Putin for Russian aggression in the Crimea?

[PhillipBlunt]

5 hours ago, smokes said:

My distorted view vs the lack of your ability to try to see things from another prospective.

I'm more than capable of seeing things from another perspective. I'm just not going to bother with a view as myopic as yours.

5 hours ago, smokes said:

Why is it that when my views...views that you can not comprehend because you are not me then must be distorted? Just because they differ from yours?

In my opinion, your views are distorted because you refuse to see the situation in a realistic way. You claim that anti-Chinese sentiment is the impetus of any view that speaks badly regarding the wealthy migrants, and it's totally false. Anti-Chinese sentiment would be towards anyone who is Chinese regardless of background, and that's just not the case.

 

I'm aware of the horrible price many Chinese immigrants paid when they came here, and worked on the railroad. They weren't allowed to be seen by doctors in most hospitals, so Mount Saint Joseph's in East Vancouver was built to help them.

5 hours ago, smokes said:

We live in very different worlds and the things that we have seen are completely different and thus we have different views on certain things. While our opinions don't necessarily agree, I'll respect yours while you respect mine.

I usually respect people's opinions, although I'm sure some would disagree. The opinions that you've shared on these boards however contain some pretty serious allegations, which in my opinion, don't hold water. You've made these statements before, and essentially were shot down in the exact same way.

5 hours ago, smokes said:

That's how it should work. It is too bad you feel you need to add these little digs in to make your point when it feels like your points would be better received without your digs.

Yeah, well, get over it.

5 hours ago, smokes said:

Are you not dismissing other's as in myself for saying I have a victim complex when you don't even know who I am?

This is an online forum. You presented your opinions regarding the subject. If you expected complete acceptance, you were mistaken. Other people, such as myself, have opinions too, and those opinions may clash with yours. I say that you have a victim complex because you're acting like the Chinese in BC are some poor, repressed people who are being treated poorly by the populace. That's just not true.

 

Lumping in long term, multi-generational people of Chinese descent with the wealthy migrant influx doesn't work either. There is an intrinsic difference between those two groups. One has become part of the Canadian culture, bringing great strength and resilience with them, which makes this country that much stronger, the other, well they'll just take what they can get, and stay amongst themselves.

5 hours ago, smokes said:

If you going to join into a conversation come in with a point but immediately attacking me with this victim complex nonsense? Seriously? You need to rely on personal attacks to talk to people? Man, I really hope you are just a persona and not like this in real life. 

Because you are displaying some of the hallmarks of a victim complex. Yes.

 

I don't need to rely on personal attacks to communicate at all. Maybe you need to realize how over reactive and quick to hyperbole you are when you converse. I get that you don't agree with what I say, and that it might point out some issues with what your saying, but making such generalizations doesn't do you any favors.

[JM_]

12 minutes ago, smokes said:

I respect that, but what I don't respect is when people come out and call out everyone who is of Chinese ethnicity for something most of us have nothing to do with. When people come out and say the Chinese did this and the Chinese did that. I'm Canadian but I am of Chinese ethnicity, I have never did this or did that but yet I feel like this blanket term "The Chinese" is directed at me because I am part of that race.

yeah i can understand that, for sure. I cringe when people do that because then it just sows seeds of distrust of all Canadians or white people or whoever. We have to be able to recognize that all societies have idiots and try hard not to blanket everyone. 

 

With this latest stuff going on, I know the people we do business with in China would not like that a Canadian was detained in this way in retaliation, and wouldn't be very pleased at the prospect of less trade between Canada and China over it. Canada has held and handed over Chinese citizens in the same way in the past for crimes so this is nothing new to anyone and they were fine with the treaties when it was someone they wanted. 

[smokes]

24 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

Is that what you believe?

 

Did you somehow miss all the drama that occurred after Chrystia Freeland (and the JT) criticized Saudi Arabia for their arrest of Women's rights protesters? How about Trudeau's criticism of Putin for Russian aggression in the Crimea?

I fully supported that criticism. But to cause a diplomatic nightmare in arresting someone on transit under the request another government on the same day as the President of said government meeting and agreeing to halt the tariffs that are plaguing the economy. That's a far step. How does this incident help Canada in anyway?

Edited December 11, 2018 by smokes

[JM_]

1 minute ago, smokes said:

I fully supported that criticism. But to cause a diplomatic nightmare in arresting someone under the request another government on the same day as the President of said government and meeting to halt the tariffs that are plaguing the economy. That's a far step.

But we have the rule of law here, if there's a legal request under the extradition treaty we are bound to act. No one sits back and thinks, I wonder which politician is in a meeting somewhere? maybe the US made the request to be disruptive, maybe they didn't. But the fact that it co-incided with her travel plans seems pretty coincidental. I doubt Trumps administration based their dinner meeting timing to coincide exactly with Meng's Vancouver stopover. The request was actually put out in August, and the timing was coincidental. 

[smokes]

1 minute ago, Jimmy McGill said:

But we have the rule of law here, if there's a legal request under the extradition treaty we are bound to act. No one sits back and thinks, I wonder which politician is in a meeting somewhere? maybe the US made the request to be disruptive, maybe they didn't. But the fact that it co-incided with her travel plans seems pretty coincidental. I doubt Trumps administration based their dinner meeting timing to coincide exactly with Meng's Vancouver stopover. The request was actually put out in August, and the timing was coincidental. 

She got pinched because of trading with Iran right? For violating sanctions put in place by the US, not necessarily by the UN because it was the US who backed out of the Obama signed deal in the first place which made trading with Iran perfectly fine.

[JM_]

Just now, smokes said:

She got pinched because of trading with Iran right? For violating sanctions put in place by the US, not necessarily by the UN because it was the US who backed out of the Obama signed deal in the first place which made trading with Iran perfectly fine.

thats right. But if you are going to trade with the US you agree to follow their current laws for anything that you do in their country, thats how it works for anyone. So if their US offices did business with Iran at her direction, she's in big trouble. 

 

But its for a court to decide under proper process, which is whats going on now in Vancouver in the initial stages. What the Chinese government did today in arbitrarily arresting a random Canadian guy in retaliation is emblematic of the issues in China. The party is the law there, and there isn't a guarantee of due process like Meng is receiving here in Canada now. 

[smokes]

6 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

thats right. But if you are going to trade with the US you agree to follow their current laws for anything that you do in their country, thats how it works for anyone. So if their US offices did business with Iran at her direction, she's in big trouble. 

 

But its for a court to decide under proper process, which is whats going on now in Vancouver in the initial stages. What the Chinese government did today in arbitrarily arresting a random Canadian guy in retaliation is emblematic of the issues in China. The party is the law there, and there isn't a guarantee of due process like Meng is receiving here in Canada now. 

The thing that bugs me is that why did the US need to drag Canada into this in the first place. Canada was doing just fine and if the US was going to do this, they should have done this on their own. Now as of result Canadians are in the cross hairs and we are stuck in the middle. There are many Canadians who have built a good life here and in one fell swoop, now we are in a messed up situation. What? Now we need to pack up leave the lives we built here and go back to Canada because of this friction? Friction that did not have to happen?

Edited December 11, 2018 by smokes

[JM_]

5 minutes ago, smokes said:

The thing that bugs me is that why did the US need to drag Canada into this in the first place. Canada was doing just fine and if the US was going to do this, they should have done this on their own. Now as of result Canadians are in the cross hairs and we are stuck in the middle. There are many Canadians who have built a good life here and in one fell swoop, now we are in a messed up situation. What? Now we need to pack up leave the lives we built here and go back to Canada because of this friction? Friction that did not have to happen?

it is bothersome, but they would have known she had homes here and would likely stop over at some point. Thats why it took a couple months from the date of the request until  the actual arrest when she arrived for a quick stop over. 

 

We're only in the crosshairs because of how China's government responds to these kinds of things. Any other country we have treaties with doesn't start arresting people when things don't go they way they like. And China is happy to have us detain people for them too. Xi needs to take the temperature down on this and not escalate it, but I suspect he'll try to use Canada as an example the way the Saudi's attempted to. Canada needs to stand firm and deal with what comes. 

Edited December 11, 2018 by Jimmy McGill

[smokes]

1 minute ago, Jimmy McGill said:

it is bothersome, but they would have known she had homes here and would likely stop over at some point. Thats why it took a couple months from the date of the request until  the actual arrest when she arrived for a quick stop over. 

 

We're only in the crosshairs because of how China's government responds to these kinds of things. Any other country we have treaties with doesn't start arresting people when things don't go they way they like. And China is happy to have us detain people for them too. Xi needs to take the temperature down on this and not escalate it, but I suspect he'll try to use Canada as an example the way the Saudi's attempted to. Canada needs to stand firm and deal with what comes. 

That's the issue though, you can stand firm but what about that guy in jail? How is he standing? 

[JM_]

4 minutes ago, smokes said:

That's the issue though, you can stand firm but what about that guy in jail? How is he standing? 

he's hooped in all likelihood. This is where the US needs to apply some pressure on our behalf. We'll see. 

[RUPERTKBD]

3 hours ago, smokes said:

I fully supported that criticism. But to cause a diplomatic nightmare in arresting someone on transit under the request another government on the same day as the President of said government meeting and agreeing to halt the tariffs that are plaguing the economy. That's a far step. How does this incident help Canada in anyway?

Jimmy explained it quite well, but it really has nothing to do with what i posted. I pointed out our government's criticism of Russia and Saudi Arabia in rebuttal to your claim that people "only criticize China".

[Jaimito]

what a waste of tax payer money.  

she committed no crime in Canada.   We aren't American puppets.  Huawai is a private company, and happens to be #2 in the world to Apple even without even having a presence in US.   I bet Apple execs are pushing this.  Just protectionism at its finest.

 

Trudeau will be stupid to anger China over this, we don't have the capital to go into a pissing contest with China.  The US are using this as a negotiation pawn in the next Trump-Xi meeting, at our tax expense.  Well played.    

Edited December 11, 2018 by Jaimito

[SabreFan1]

11 minutes ago, Jaimito said:

what a waste of tax payer money.  

she committed no crime in Canada.   We aren't American puppets.  Huawai is a private company, and happens to be #2 in the world to Apple even without even having a presence in US.   I bet Apple execs are pushing this.  Just protectionism at its finest.

 

Trudeau will be stupid to anger China over this, we don't have the capital to go into a pissing contest with China.  The US are using this as a negotiation pawn in the next Trump-Xi meeting, at our tax expense.  Well played.    

Aren't you located in NY?