Are You A Yellow Vest?

[SabreFan1]

9 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

I wonder how many 'down south' remembers just how much France helped them out (granted it was likely due to their own self-interests - ie., the enemy of my enemy is my friend...).  Anyhow, we're all United Empire Loyalists here right?  Those guys were traitors.

They p*ssed that goodwill away when they sided with the US Confederates decades later.

[Toews]

Can someone tell me if being a "Yellow Vest" would interfere with one's status as a "centrist"? Asking for a friend of a friend of mine. 

[RRypien37]

2 hours ago, luckylager said:

It worked in the past.

 

But you are correct, I didn't take a single econ class.

 

Enlighten me, moneybags.

You seem to think 1% means only the 1100 or so billionaires on this planet. In reality, for example in Canada (as someone already mentioned on this page), a 1% earner starts at roughly 200K annually. Take away 90% of anyone making mid 6 figures and it's common sense to see how that ends. 

 

On the flip side, who do you think these upper echelon of the "1%" are? These are the banks, fortune 500 corporations and most importantly MAJOR EMPLOYERS. Taxing the majority of their revenue means many would not find it financially viable to continue operating said businesses/enterprises/corporations. Which then leads to mass unemployment and complete financial collapse as we know it. 

 

This is just one example as it's the most obvious and arguably most influencing to the average Joe. 

 

It's funny because the first thing this argument reminds me of is a Peter Schiff video I remember watching on YT (linked it below). The majority are quick to throw their hands up, protest and demand frivolous changes rather than actually doing something with their own lives. 

 

 

[luckylager]

35 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

The 1% in Canada only make 220K annually. The top 10% only earn 80k annually. I always get a kick out of the stereotypes people put on these groups.  

 

 

The reality is the majority of these people are just your typical business owners, doctors, and engineers.  And these people are not some evil group that is looking to screw over the lower income people, they are people that worked hard in life and sacrificed a lot to get were they are today.  The supply they fill for this countries demands is what makes them wealthy.  Canada needs doctors but why would anyone want to give up 8 years of their life in post secondary schooling (giving up a large chunk of their lives) to not get well compensated.  The top 20% represent of Canadians already contribute to over 55% of all the tax revenue and one thing that gets missed a lot is that is that the top 1% represents more than 33% of all charitable donations.  

 

The reason a 90% tax wouldn't work long term is because people need incentive for growth and it might be sad, but wealth is incentive.  Again why would someone waste so many years in schooling when after all is said and done they will only earn slightly more than someone who didn't go to school.  If you were offered a promotion at work where you'd get a $2 per hour raise but would be required to work longer hours and have a bunch more added stress and responsibilities would you accept the promotion?  It would be hard to justify, the trade off wouldn't really seem like it's worth it, now a $10 per hour raise might make it much more enticing.  

 

It's all about perspective, to you, you don't understand why someone needs to have all those nice things (cars, houses, first class plane tickets etc.) but that is the life style they have earned and their life style is expensive.  That high end lifestyle also creates jobs and encourages innovation and efficiency. You probably don't realize but you (assuming you work) are currently in the top 1% amongst the world.  To the rest of the world (their perspective), they don't understand why YOU need so much.  The NHL is a prime example, it's the result of people having leisure expenses available. 

 

One thing a lot of people get stuck on is believing that equality is always such a good thing but it's not, especially when looking at equal outcome, trying to force everyone to end at the same finish line is a scary world that i'd want no part of.

I was proposing obscene taxation on earnings over $2m / yr.

 

I don't have an issue with doctors making a good living. Where I get pissy is the CEO's bringing home 400 times that of his employees. 

Does he have 400x the education, or do 400x the work? No. No he doesn't.

 

 

 

[RRypien37]

23 minutes ago, luckylager said:

I was proposing obscene taxation on earnings over $2m / yr.

 

I don't have an issue with doctors making a good living. Where I get pissy is the CEO's bringing home 400 times that of his employees. 

Does he have 400x the education, or do 400x the work? No. No he doesn't.

 

 

 

Actually YES they do. That's why they are in that position. They worked to get to that position and hold 400 time the responsibility, stress and accountability. 

[luckylager]

2 minutes ago, RRypien37 said:

Actually YES they do. That's why they are in that position. They worked to get to that position and hold 400 time the responsibility, stress and accountability. 

I totally disagree.

 

The CEO of BC Ferries Corp received millions in bonuses even though the corp lost money. Where's the accountability?

[Sweathog]

Some interesting stuff here. One I found particularly interesting:

 

"Remove all ideology from the Ministry of Education, ending all destructive education techniques."

 

Hopefully that means the focus is on teaching students how to think more effectively, rather than focusing on indoctrinating them in a particular ideology, whether it's left or right wing.

[Lancaster]

2 hours ago, luckylager said:

I totally disagree.

 

The CEO of BC Ferries Corp received millions in bonuses even though the corp lost money. Where's the accountability?

That's because BC Ferries doesn't have to be accountable to anyone.  For all intent and purposes, they're just another government organization with a "business" designation.  

[Violator]

5 hours ago, Sweathog said:

Some interesting stuff here. One I found particularly interesting:

 

"Remove all ideology from the Ministry of Education, ending all destructive education techniques."

 

Hopefully that means the focus is on teaching students how to think more effectively, rather than focusing on indoctrinating them in a particular ideology, whether it's left or right wing.

You still have to get past the BCTF.

[Sweathog]

25 minutes ago, Violator said:

You still have to get past the BCTF.

I think they could mabye listen. If the general public was for it, I don't think the BCTF would be keen on defying them.

[Bill Sikes]

I agree with many of their demands, but can't really agree with their tactics

[riffraff]

9 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

The 1% in Canada only make 220K annually. The top 10% only earn 80k annually. I always get a kick out of the stereotypes people put on these groups.  

 

 

The reality is the majority of these people are just your typical business owners, doctors, and engineers.  And these people are not some evil group that is looking to screw over the lower income people, they are people that worked hard in life and sacrificed a lot to get were they are today.  The supply they fill for this countries demands is what makes them wealthy.  Canada needs doctors but why would anyone want to give up 8 years of their life in post secondary schooling (giving up a large chunk of their lives) to not get well compensated.  The top 20% represent of Canadians already contribute to over 55% of all the tax revenue and one thing that gets missed a lot is that is that the top 1% represents more than 33% of all charitable donations.  

 

The reason a 90% tax wouldn't work long term is because people need incentive for growth and it might be sad, but wealth is incentive.  Again why would someone waste so many years in schooling when after all is said and done they will only earn slightly more than someone who didn't go to school.  If you were offered a promotion at work where you'd get a $2 per hour raise but would be required to work longer hours and have a bunch more added stress and responsibilities would you accept the promotion?  It would be hard to justify, the trade off wouldn't really seem like it's worth it, now a $10 per hour raise might make it much more enticing.  

 

It's all about perspective, to you, you don't understand why someone needs to have all those nice things (cars, houses, first class plane tickets etc.) but that is the life style they have earned and their life style is expensive.  That high end lifestyle also creates jobs and encourages innovation and efficiency. You probably don't realize but you (assuming you work) are currently in the top 1% amongst the world.  To the rest of the world (their perspective), they don't understand why YOU need so much.  The NHL is a prime example, it's the result of people having leisure expenses available. 

 

One thing a lot of people get stuck on is believing that equality is always such a good thing but it's not, especially when looking at equal outcome, trying to force everyone to end at the same finish line is a scary world that i'd want no part of.

Here here.

[Dash Riprock]

20 hours ago, Warhippy said:

The true yellow vest ideals are very socialist in nature.  A direct push back to the essential handover of wealth and power to the corporate and wealthy elite in France while raising the costs of fees and services for the average person and reducing available social benefits and programs.

 

Here in Canada every single yellow vest page I have been to, every site and every mention is populated by far right, anti immigrant angry white nationalist BS talking about the "corrupt Trudeau" without mentioning what he is guilty of doing.  Talking about the opening of doors to immigrants but unable to say how when or why that is happening.  Screaming about the UN compact and muslims and sharia law, yet unable to answer why non muslim immigrants make up 8 of our top 10 countries that immigrants come from.

 

Ya no man.  I can stand behind the yellow vest ideals of France.  I can stand behind some of the ideals they have here in Canada that they are trying ti push as their agenda for all Canadians.  But they don't in any way shape or form speak about or act like any of those ideals except anti immigration are important.

 

When you make a movement about equality, and the levelling of the playing field for ALL Canadians but then essentially crap on any of them that look different, speak a different language or worship a different god than really you are doing nothing more than slapping on a vest over your khakis and polo shirt and crying about "protecting our identity"

 

And that is not something I can stand behind.

Maybe you should rethink your yes vote. Pretty sure the French version of yellow vest would be no different than any Canadian off shoot concerning what passes for immigration lately. Noticeably absent are any bones thrown to minority groups. Pretty sure that's not an accident.

 

Prevent migratory flows that cannot be accommodated or integrated, given the profound civilizational crisis we are experiencing

 

 

After doing a little research, it seems the French yellow vests were started by a facebook post from a lady who was only complaining about the Carbon Tax. Something about asking Macron what he planned on doing with all the extra money "build yourself a new swimming pool?"  It has now morphed into the demands I posted above. I wonder if these demands can maintain the movement . The lady who started the movement is not so sure.

[Rob_Zepp]

On 12/16/2018 at 11:12 AM, Dungass said:

Not sure how the cap on tax, while at same time increased public funding for government services could work.  Seems like a case of asking for everything.

THIS

[Alflives]

19 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

THIS

No such thing as a Utopia.  Someone has to actually do the work.  

[Ilunga]

15 hours ago, RRypien37 said:

Actually YES they do. That's why they are in that position. They worked to get to that position and hold 400 time the responsibility, stress and accountability. 

You have to be totally delusional to believe that load of BS.

 

So the average CEO did not work hard 30-40 years ago when they had that level of responsibilty and stress yet their earnings were only 30- 40 times that of their average worker.

[Ilunga]

15 hours ago, luckylager said:

I totally disagree.

 

The CEO of BC Ferries Corp received millions in bonuses even though the corp lost money. Where's the accountability?

Same here in Aus with the banking CEO's who received their bonuses after it had been revealed the banks had charged people fees for no service,dead people fees.

 

What amazes me is how the get some peasants to buy into their BS that they deserve the amount of money they earn.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

18 hours ago, luckylager said:

I was proposing obscene taxation on earnings over $2m / yr.

 

I don't have an issue with doctors making a good living. Where I get pissy is the CEO's bringing home 400 times that of his employees. 

Does he have 400x the education, or do 400x the work? No. No he doesn't.

 

 

 

Why not?  Do you understand what it takes to be a CEO making over $2 million annually?  Do you understand the hard work it would have taken for them to reach that level.  One bad decision not only hurt the company’s market share but it could also cause 1000’s of people to lose their jobs.  Imagine the stress that has on a person, not to mention the life of give up in order to achieve that.  Missing the majority of your 20’s while being away at school and taking on a ton of debt, sacrificing family life for work life and then after gaining 20-30 years of experience, finally working your way up to earn a position by beating out all other people around the world applying for that role.  There’s a reason there is so little Canadians making over 2 million annually.  In Canada were looking at around .025%, so under 10 thousand people.  That’s roughly the same percentage of kids that make and play in the NHL in Canada. 

 

I’d suspect that with the 90% tax suggestion and with the “why should CEO’s earn 400x over the lower end employees” you’re basically just referencing to the Bernie videos.  Sadly he’s just uses those sad sap stories in order to tug at people’s emotions so they block out logical rational.  It’s always the same “I’m broke and can’t afford to live while my mean rich CEO lives in luxury”.  Bernie is your typical elementary  school president, promising 2x 3 hours recesses, more play time and absolutely zero homework.  Sounds great to the 10 year old’s, but it would end up doing more harm kids development than good.  Just tell people what they want to hear.  “Work less, earn more and best of all it will all be paid for by someone else”

 

What people need to do is stop playing the victim card and blaming everyone else for their misfortunes, no forced you to not go to school, no one forced you to not add new skillsets to you repertoire, no one forced you to be a divorced 40 year old with 8 kids.  Yes it sucks, but it’s not a companies role to correct your mishaps. They do there role by providing a job, which is not an easy task.  If you don’t like your job or don’t feel it pays you enough no one is stopping you from looking elsewhere.  

 

Your pay is based on the benefit your skillset provides.  The harder it is to replicate that skill set the more money you are going to make, this is basic supply and demand.  That’s where a CEO’s skill set become very valuable.  Does he do 400x the work?  In terms of work load, no but in terms of difficult it’s probably close to a 1000x more difficult.  Consider the Disney hotel employee (in Bernies videos) who’s job is was to put out pre made spreads of food for guests.  Not to belittler her but her job is about as easy as it can get, it requires zero skill set and next to no challenges, her biggest hurdle was to make sure she showed up to work on time. Now compare that to Bob Iger who’s running the multibillion dollar business. If she does something wrong, it might affect a few guests breakfast experience one morning, where if he does something wrong, it can set back the company for decades. 

 

A more relatable example would be in hockey,  very few players have Connor McDavid’s skill set, there for teams value him the most and his contract reflects what he brings to the oilers organization.  Compare his role to one of the parking attendants at Rogers Place who likely makes around $13 per hour. Now I realize Rogers Place staff don’t work full time but if they did they would be making around 400x less than McDavid makes.  And I would argue that Connor doesn’t have the stress of placing 1000’s of the organizations employees livelihoods riding on him.  Also Connor can have an off year or two and will still get paid whereas the typical CEO won’t last a few years of bad performance. 

[Gurn]

34 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

One bad decision not only hurt the company’s market share but it could also cause 1000’s of people to lose their jobs

Same thing at the helm of an Oil Tanker, or a cruise ship for that matter.

[luckylager]

18 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Why not?  Do you understand what it takes to be a CEO making over $2 million annually?  Do you understand the hard work it would have taken for them to reach that level.  One bad decision not only hurt the company’s market share but it could also cause 1000’s of people to lose their jobs.  Imagine the stress that has on a person, not to mention the life of give up in order to achieve that.  Missing the majority of your 20’s while being away at school and taking on a ton of debt, sacrificing family life for work life and then after gaining 20-30 years of experience, finally working your way up to earn a position by beating out all other people around the world applying for that role.  There’s a reason there is so little Canadians making over 2 million annually.  In Canada were looking at around .025%, so under 10 thousand people.  That’s roughly the same percentage of kids that make and play in the NHL in Canada. 

 

I’d suspect that with the 90% tax suggestion and with the “why should CEO’s earn 400x over the lower end employees” you’re basically just referencing to the Bernie videos.  Sadly he’s just uses those sad sap stories in order to tug at people’s emotions so they block out logical rational.  It’s always the same “I’m broke and can’t afford to live while my mean rich CEO lives in luxury”.  Bernie is your typical elementary  school president, promising 2x 3 hours recesses, more play time and absolutely zero homework.  Sounds great to the 10 year old’s, but it would end up doing more harm kids development than good.  Just tell people what they want to hear.  “Work less, earn more and best of all it will all be paid for by someone else”

 

What people need to do is stop playing the victim card and blaming everyone else for their misfortunes, no forced you to not go to school, no one forced you to not add new skillsets to you repertoire, no one forced you to be a divorced 40 year old with 8 kids.  Yes it sucks, but it’s not a companies role to correct your mishaps. They do there role by providing a job, which is not an easy task.  If you don’t like your job or don’t feel it pays you enough no one is stopping you from looking elsewhere.  

 

Your pay is based on the benefit your skillset provides.  The harder it is to replicate that skill set the more money you are going to make, this is basic supply and demand.  That’s where a CEO’s skill set become very valuable.  Does he do 400x the work?  In terms of work load, no but in terms of difficult it’s probably close to a 1000x more difficult.  Consider the Disney hotel employee (in Bernies videos) who’s job is was to put out pre made spreads of food for guests.  Not to belittler her but her job is about as easy as it can get, it requires zero skill set and next to no challenges, her biggest hurdle was to make sure she showed up to work on time. Now compare that to Bob Iger who’s running the multibillion dollar business. If she does something wrong, it might affect a few guests breakfast experience one morning, where if he does something wrong, it can set back the company for decades. 

 

A more relatable example would be in hockey,  very few players have Connor McDavid’s skill set, there for teams value him the most and his contract reflects what he brings to the oilers organization.  Compare his role to one of the parking attendants at Rogers Place who likely makes around $13 per hour. Now I realize Rogers Place staff don’t work full time but if they did they would be making around 400x less than McDavid makes.  And I would argue that Connor doesn’t have the stress of placing 1000’s of the organizations employees livelihoods riding on him.  Also Connor can have an off year or two and will still get paid whereas the typical CEO won’t last a few years of bad performance. 

I still fail to see the value of said individual relative to his contribution to society.

 

I'm not pulling some "whoa is me" bull$&!# either. I own a very nice house, a couple of vehicles, a few toys, live comfortably and didn't have to sacrifice much to get here. I'm happy, my wife and kids are happy. I'm compensated fairly for the job I do.

 

The world of finance never appealed to me, my pursuit of happiness has never been centred on money or greed. 

 

I'm not losing any sleep over what these guys get paid. I don't understand how it's justifiable or how the hell they'll ever manage to spend all their loot. They don't need it.