Tiger-Hearted Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, Jet_91 said: Agreed the new shoulder patches are a plus of the new jersey so I updated my concept to have them as well Your Johnny Canuck concept a few years back was beautiful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 10 hours ago, Jester13 said: It's a PR video. Do you know what goes into a PR video? Yeesh. You don't expect everyone to agree, but it sure seems like you get super bent out of shape if people don't agree with you on the orca. I find it interesting that even when someone shows you evidence that the logo was a corporate decision (see the earlier post with the article of A. Griffiths saying so), you still remain in denial. Ah, whatever, I don't even know I'm bothering... good day to you. It's a video of how they got to the finished product with interviews of those involved. The narration of course is very likely scripted like any documentary. The interviews I highly doubt were scripted as you claim. Is it PR, just a documentary of the process, or perhaps both? That's a matter of opinion. Btw, the artist is the same one that designed the Giants logo. In another interview he said one of the designs when settling on the Orca was a JC version very similar to the Giants logo, which was ultimately rejected. He basically redesigned that logo into a G for Giants instead of a C for Canucks for the WHL team. Falling in line with Lindens statement in the video there several designs and a process of elimination. That later interview rather refutes your claim that the Orca was mandated from the beginning, it's a scripted PR video, and after the fact they made up images of other logos and styles for smoke and mirrors. All that just is your own made up version. I do find it hypocritical to say on one hand an image that doesn't mean Canucks (Stick in Rink) is fine. Then turn around and say an image that doesn't mean Canucks (Orca) doesn't apply because it's not an image that means Canucks. Both either apply by forming a C for Canucks, or neither applies because neither image actually means the name. Yes, hypocrisy bugs the hell out of me. And making crap up to support an opinion is also irksome. What evidence? Reading into things what you want? Griffiths saying he loved the name Orca Bay for the parent company, then saying he didn't expect them to move to an Orca logo after he was bought out. He says nothing about it being mandated nor anything regarding the process involved in getting there. He was gone by then. As stated previously, every team is a business. Big business. Meaning every decision made is a "corporate decision" and every team logo is their "corporate logo". Acquilini deciding to change the colors of the Orca uniform and updating the logo was a "corporate decision". Should Aquilini decide to switch to a JC logo that would also be a "corporate decision". Semantics. For the umpteenth time, I don't really care about the why, I simply like the look. Just as I didn't care about the why when we switched to the V. Why had no impact on my disliking it. The why doesn't matter. Time to give it up. Much like Tiger and I, we simply won't agree on the subject. Nor do we have control over these "corporate" decisions. Although I'm sure there's one thing you will agree with - no matter what is used there will be a large number that don't like it and want something else. Threads like this will come up year after year and there will never be a consensus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
granpappy Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 i believe, to the best of my recollection, coley hall came up with the johnny canuck logo. this would be the original logo associated with the inception of the whl canucks. i would find it hard to believe that coley hall gave any consideration to the so called french canadian canuck or hawaiian fur trading canuck. coley hall was an old school scrapper and i believe he envisioned a rough and tumble lumberjack playing what has become canada's national game. a logo representing a tough team playing a tough game. so any history lessons regarding the origins of the term canuck are nothing more than a feeble attempt to re-write the history of jc and the vancouver canucks . . . fake news. i happen to think the original jc logo is very original six. i suppose the problem really began when, for whatever reason, the logo was never used a s a crest on the team's jersey. so, sadly,barring a miracle, we will likely plod on with a confusing identity of a poorly contrived haida artwork continues to misrepresent what our canuck identity really is. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester13 Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 12 hours ago, Baggins said: It's a video of how they got to the finished product with interviews of those involved. The narration of course is very likely scripted like any documentary. The interviews I highly doubt were scripted as you claim. Is it PR, just a documentary of the process, or perhaps both? That's a matter of opinion. Btw, the artist is the same one that designed the Giants logo. In another interview he said one of the designs when settling on the Orca was a JC version very similar to the Giants logo, which was ultimately rejected. He basically redesigned that logo into a G for Giants instead of a C for Canucks for the WHL team. Falling in line with Lindens statement in the video there several designs and a process of elimination. That later interview rather refutes your claim that the Orca was mandated from the beginning, it's a scripted PR video, and after the fact they made up images of other logos and styles for smoke and mirrors. All that just is your own made up version. I do find it hypocritical to say on one hand an image that doesn't mean Canucks (Stick in Rink) is fine. Then turn around and say an image that doesn't mean Canucks (Orca) doesn't apply because it's not an image that means Canucks. Both either apply by forming a C for Canucks, or neither applies because neither image actually means the name. Yes, hypocrisy bugs the hell out of me. And making crap up to support an opinion is also irksome. What evidence? Reading into things what you want? Griffiths saying he loved the name Orca Bay for the parent company, then saying he didn't expect them to move to an Orca logo after he was bought out. He says nothing about it being mandated nor anything regarding the process involved in getting there. He was gone by then. As stated previously, every team is a business. Big business. Meaning every decision made is a "corporate decision" and every team logo is their "corporate logo". Acquilini deciding to change the colors of the Orca uniform and updating the logo was a "corporate decision". Should Aquilini decide to switch to a JC logo that would also be a "corporate decision". Semantics. For the umpteenth time, I don't really care about the why, I simply like the look. Just as I didn't care about the why when we switched to the V. Why had no impact on my disliking it. The why doesn't matter. Time to give it up. Much like Tiger and I, we simply won't agree on the subject. Nor do we have control over these "corporate" decisions. Although I'm sure there's one thing you will agree with - no matter what is used there will be a large number that don't like it and want something else. Threads like this will come up year after year and there will never be a consensus. There's no hypocrisy at all. I've said a few times now that at least the stick in rink or skate have something to do with hockey and not the corporation that owned it at the time. It's no wonder why you get so frustrated at people, because you don't seem to hear what others are saying and simply keep talking over them rather than trying to understand their side. It's fine if you don't care that it was a corporate decision, but you're either being disingenuous by ignoring that it was or incredibly naive. A PR video is a PR video is a PR video. They're all the same with the same desired outcome. I've filmed one before, have you? Are you even familiar with what a PR video is? There is a lot of the same stuff that goes into one. Storyboarding, scripting, multiple shots and cuts and editing. This is not a matter of opinion as to what the video is and what its intention was, and is instead me simply speaking from experience and being able to cut through the bs that video was/is full of. But, fine, be susceptible and allow it to persuade your judgement. I guess they should at least get some props for the video working on a portion of the fanbase. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger-Hearted Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 Jester13 is 1000% correct on all accounts. We all have our respective favourite and least favourite Canucks logos and uniforms. In fact, I love and admire orcas/killer whales just much as any other animal. From a Canucks standpoint, I grew up with the Flying V and beloved Skate logo. The Skate was my hockey symbol growing up. I bled the black, yellow and orange-red colours. However, as I reached my mid 20's, I started to learn and appreciate the history and legacy of Johnny Canuck. The Canucks name is one of the great team names in hockey. It's all because of the late Coley Hall and his vision for Vancouver's professional hockey club. That vision needs to be restored. The Canucks have nothing to lose and everything to gain by retiring the corporately-inspired Orca and embracing Johnny Canuck. JC has critics like all logos do but in the end, it's an identity that will indeed unite all Canucks fans. If JC had replaced the Skate back in '97, there would be no identity crisis, not including demands for throwbacks and new alternates. Johnny Canuck on a blue, white and green uniform along with the block-style font would give the Canucks a Top 10 NHL uniform. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Tiger-Hearted said: Jester13 is 1000% correct on all accounts. We all have our respective favourite and least favourite Canucks logos and uniforms. In fact, I love and admire orcas/killer whales just much as any other animal. From a Canucks standpoint, I grew up with the Flying V and beloved Skate logo. The Skate was my hockey symbol growing up. I bled the black, yellow and orange-red colours. However, as I reached my mid 20's, I started to learn and appreciate the history and legacy of Johnny Canuck. The Canucks name is one of the great team names in hockey. It's all because of the late Coley Hall and his vision for Vancouver's professional hockey club. That vision needs to be restored. The Canucks have nothing to lose and everything to gain by retiring the corporately-inspired Orca and embracing Johnny Canuck. JC has critics like all logos do but in the end, it's an identity that will indeed unite all Canucks fans. If JC had replaced the Skate back in '97, there would be no identity crisis, not including demands for throwbacks and new alternates. Johnny Canuck on a blue, white and green uniform along with the block-style font would give the Canucks a Top 10 NHL uniform. nothing to lose other than a $700,000,000 brand they've spent the last 25 years or so building on the back of the orca logo. why would johnny canuck unite 'all' canucks fans anymore than any of the other logos? you said it yourself, johnny canuck has plenty of critics, myself included, and I certainly wouldn't feel 'united' by them switching to an identity based on a crudely drawn stereotype not worthy of a professional sports uniform. especially not in the name of their alleged history, considering the orca has been their logo longer than johnny canuck ever was and the fact that the average canucks fan walking the streets of vancouver barely has any clue what the johnny canuck logo is, let alone knowing the history or having any attachment to it. Edited June 11, 2019 by tas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger-Hearted Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 1 hour ago, tas said: nothing to lose other than a $700,000,000 brand they've spent the last 25 years or so building on the back of the orca logo. why would johnny canuck unite 'all' canucks fans anymore than any of the other logos? you said it yourself, johnny canuck has plenty of critics, myself included, and I certainly wouldn't feel 'united' by them switching to an identity based on a crudely drawn stereotype not worthy of a professional sports uniform. especially not in the name of their alleged history, considering the orca has been their logo longer than johnny canuck ever was and the fact that the average canucks fan walking the streets of vancouver barely has any clue what the johnny canuck logo is, let alone knowing the history or having any attachment to it. Perhaps, it's time to educate the average Canucks fan?? Knowledge is power. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 17 minutes ago, Tiger-Hearted said: Perhaps, it's time to educate the average Canucks fan?? Knowledge is power. or maybe it's time to let go of a meaningless past. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksCountry Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, tas said: JC has critics like all logos do but in the end, it's an identity that will indeed unite all Canucks fans Johnny canuck is the worst logo we could use I rather see us in the flying v. it looks like a minor hockey team's logo Edited June 11, 2019 by CanucksCountry 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 Johnny Canuck ? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger-Hearted Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 2 hours ago, CanucksCountry said: Johnny canuck is the worst logo we could use I rather see us in the flying v. it looks like a minor hockey team's logo I guess you feel the same way about the Penguins logo, eh, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 5 hours ago, Jester13 said: There's no hypocrisy at all. I've said a few times now that at least the stick in rink or skate have something to do with hockey and not the corporation that owned it at the time. It's no wonder why you get so frustrated at people, because you don't seem to hear what others are saying and simply keep talking over them rather than trying to understand their side. It's fine if you don't care that it was a corporate decision, but you're either being disingenuous by ignoring that it was or incredibly naive. A PR video is a PR video is a PR video. They're all the same with the same desired outcome. I've filmed one before, have you? Are you even familiar with what a PR video is? There is a lot of the same stuff that goes into one. Storyboarding, scripting, multiple shots and cuts and editing. This is not a matter of opinion as to what the video is and what its intention was, and is instead me simply speaking from experience and being able to cut through the bs that video was/is full of. But, fine, be susceptible and allow it to persuade your judgement. I guess they should at least get some props for the video working on a portion of the fanbase. I do hear what others say. Most frequently it's an Orca is not a Canuck, and we'd need to change the team name to the Vancouver Orca's for the logo to apply. Utter nonsense. We're not called the Vancouver Stick in Rinks, either meaning that logo doesn't apply for the same reason regardless of it applying to hockey. It's not a Canuck plain and simple, and that's the standard set for the Orca. Either the image has to apply to the team name or it doesn't. You can't have it both ways. Therein lies the hypocrisy. Again, every decision a franchise makes is a "corporate decision" as they are a multi-million dollar business. How is it being disingenuous or naive to like a logo that represents where the team plays? Not caring about the how or why it came to be doesn't change how well it represents. That's all that really matters in the end - how well it represents. It's you're opinion that it's a "made up" PR video. I'm not buying what you're selling. Do you know what a documentary is? It's a scripted naration with actual interviews on the subject matter. The fact the artist has said the Giants logo he created was basically a revamped version of the JC logo he created that wound up on the rejecterd pile indicates what he said in the video is true and your version, it's all made up, an incorrect assumption. Therein lies the problem with your opinion. It's based on guesswork and assumptions that lacks any verification. Also why would the franchise, with a new owner, drag this video out and put it on their youtube channel in 2015, more than a decade after McCaw is history if it's just scripted PR and phony images? Sorry but there's just too much there that doesn't fly with your imaginary version. We can keep going round and round if you choose. But obviously you won't change my opinion and I won't change yours on the matter. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 4 hours ago, Tiger-Hearted said: Perhaps, it's time to educate the average Canucks fan?? Knowledge is power. I can help you out..... https://georgiastrait.org/work/species-at-risk/orca-protection/southern-resident-orcas/brief-history-southern-residents/ 12 minutes ago, Tiger-Hearted said: I guess you feel the same way about the Penguins logo, eh, I do. Haven't bought their jersey and never will. Don't buy what you don't like. A simple motto worth following. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksCountry Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 40 minutes ago, Tiger-Hearted said: I guess you feel the same way about the Penguins logo, eh, I don't have any feelings towards the pens logo its meh to me 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester13 Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Baggins said: I do hear what others say. Most frequently it's an Orca is not a Canuck, and we'd need to change the team name to the Vancouver Orca's for the logo to apply. Utter nonsense. We're not called the Vancouver Stick in Rinks, either meaning that logo doesn't apply for the same reason regardless of it applying to hockey. It's not a Canuck plain and simple, and that's the standard set for the Orca. Either the image has to apply to the team name or it doesn't. You can't have it both ways. Therein lies the hypocrisy. Again, every decision a franchise makes is a "corporate decision" as they are a multi-million dollar business. How is it being disingenuous or naive to like a logo that represents where the team plays? Not caring about the how or why it came to be doesn't change how well it represents. That's all that really matters in the end - how well it represents. It's you're opinion that it's a "made up" PR video. I'm not buying what you're selling. Do you know what a documentary is? It's a scripted naration with actual interviews on the subject matter. The fact the artist has said the Giants logo he created was basically a revamped version of the JC logo he created that wound up on the rejecterd pile indicates what he said in the video is true and your version, it's all made up, an incorrect assumption. Therein lies the problem with your opinion. It's based on guesswork and assumptions that lacks any verification. Also why would the franchise, with a new owner, drag this video out and put it on their youtube channel in 2015, more than a decade after McCaw is history if it's just scripted PR and phony images? Sorry but there's just too much there that doesn't fly with your imaginary version. We can keep going round and round if you choose. But obviously you won't change my opinion and I won't change yours on the matter. Maybe some fans have claimed that it HAS to represent the name Canucks, but I, for one, have never made that claim and have instead said that I prefer it represents what a Canuck is, and that after that I prefer a logo that AT LEAST has something to do with hockey and not a former corporate name. This is not hypocritical. And what myself and others mean by a corporate decision is not basic operations but rather they chose a logo to represent/promote their company name instead. Now, normally I would never be against something like that, except for when it has to do with a professional sports team where it was not in the best interests of fans, which should supersede the corporate interests in this instance, but rather the company name. I mean, even the jersey colours were exactly the same as the company name! Imagine Aquilini changing the team colours and logo to the Aquilini Investment Group company colours and logo. Let that detonate in your brain for a second. The video is not some "made up" public relations video; it is a public relations video. And it is also not a documentary. If you can't see, or don't know, the difference, I suggest you do some research, because you're simply wrong, and this is not a matter of opinion. 1 hour ago, Baggins said: I can help you out..... https://georgiastrait.org/work/species-at-risk/orca-protection/southern-resident-orcas/brief-history-southern-residents/ I do. Haven't bought their jersey and never will. Don't buy what you don't like. A simple motto worth following. So the history you're citing is European settlers killing off and capturing orca in the area? You want that to represent our team? The species is endangered from that, and we continue to disrupt their natural habitat with such things as water traffic noise from tankers, which Vancouver has plenty of, so I wouldn't exactly think of Vancouver as doing their part.to help save the whales. Aye yai yai. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildwood12 Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 Let’s get rid of the Orca logo and go with VANCOUVER on the front. The same as the N.Y. Rangers jersey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 15 minutes ago, Jester13 said: Maybe some fans have claimed that it HAS to represent the name Canucks, but I, for one, have never made that claim and have instead said that I prefer it represents what a Canuck is, and that after that I prefer a logo that AT LEAST has something to do with hockey and not a former corporate name. This is not hypocritical. I see our logo akin to Calgary's - both are designed to represent the team name and where the team plays. Yet the Orca does actually contain your desired element. The Orca crashing through the ice surface. Even including that as a hockey element not even 1/4 of NHL teams include a hockey reference in their primary logo. On the flip side considerably more contain a reference to where the team plays. So which element would appear to be more important? 32 minutes ago, Jester13 said: And what myself and others mean by a corporate decision is not basic operations but rather they chose a logo to represent/promote their company name instead. Now, normally I would never be against something like that, except for when it has to do with a professional sports team where it was not in the best interests of fans, which should supersede the corporate interests in this instance, but rather the company name. I mean, even the jersey colours were exactly the same as the company name! Imagine Aquilini changing the team colours and logo to the Aquilini Investment Group company colours and logo. Let that detonate in your brain for a second. What exactly was the purpose of promoting Orca Bay Entertainment and Sports? There's only one purpose in promoting a company - to increase revenue. Orca E&S produced and sold absolutely nothing. It was a group of offices that the three businesses under the umbrella reported to. There was nothing there to promote. The notion the Canucks logo was to promote the parent company is a smoke and mirrors excuse to complain about the logo. Whether it tied to the company or not, the image also represents this city well. As stated above that seems more of a theme in NHL logos than the sport is. Again, I don't care about they why or how, just how well it represents. It represents well. 40 minutes ago, Jester13 said: The video is not some "made up" public relations video; it is a public relations video. And it is also not a documentary. If you can't see, or don't know, the difference, I suggest you do some research, because you're simply wrong, and this is not a matter of opinion. Again just opinion. Documentary: a movie or a television or radio program that provides a factual record or report. Seems to me it was a factual report, with interviews of those involved, of how we came to the Orca logo. 44 minutes ago, Jester13 said: So the history you're citing is European settlers killing off and capturing orca in the area? You want that to represent our team? The species is endangered from that, and we continue to disrupt their natural habitat with such things as water traffic noise from tankers, which Vancouver has plenty of, so I wouldn't exactly think of Vancouver as doing their part.to help save the whales. The history my friend is that Orca's were viewed as a danger to man from the beginning of time. To the point of setting up a 50 calibre machine gun to kill them if they got too close. What occurred here in Vancouver changed that world view of the Orca and started research into their nature that's still ongoing today. The unfortunate side effect of the discovery of their friendly and social nature was the large number taken off our coast and put into captivity. Greatly reducing the population. They went from one of the most feared creatures on the planet to one of the most loved because of what occurred here in Vancouver. Wander around downtown some time visiting souvenir shops and art galleries. I guarantee you'll find all kinds of Orca items from t-shirts to plush toys to jewelry, and a lot of art work. The Orca has been a big part of our city ever since Moby Doll changed the world view. Vancouver is known worldwide for those Orca's off our coast. So yes, that history makes it an iconic symbol of our city. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littledreamer Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 Not a new jersey. A tweak. Not bad. Not amazing. Still don't like the McCaw Orca. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucks.brad Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 9 hours ago, tas said: nothing to lose other than a $700,000,000 brand they've spent the last 25 years or so building on the back of the orca logo. why would johnny canuck unite 'all' canucks fans anymore than any of the other logos? you said it yourself, johnny canuck has plenty of critics, myself included, and I certainly wouldn't feel 'united' by them switching to an identity based on a crudely drawn stereotype not worthy of a professional sports uniform. especially not in the name of their alleged history, considering the orca has been their logo longer than johnny canuck ever was and the fact that the average canucks fan walking the streets of vancouver barely has any clue what the johnny canuck logo is, let alone knowing the history or having any attachment to it. This post is too intelligent for the CDC lol. Let's face it, no logo will ever unite everyone. There will always be those who like it and those that do not. The orca is here to stay. It has survived many COOs and Directors of Brand Management. This is also why we have not seen a green primary jersey. CSE have invested too much in the "Canucks Blue" brand. We may see a 3rd jersey feature the green, but I highly doubt it. My thought on this is they have already had discussions with the Seattle group and arrived at the settlement of them both being able to use a Blue/Green brand, but Vancouver keeping Blue as Primary, leaving Green for Seattle. The most I see them changing down the road to the jersey (and what leaks have shown): Removal of Vancouver Altering shoulder patch Changing font (which they already have done on most branding materials - transition from AgencyFB to the more stylized one. in 2011, this was a big no no) Striping Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger-Hearted Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 4 minutes ago, canucks.bradley said: This post is too intelligent for the CDC lol. Let's face it, no logo will ever unite everyone. There will always be those who like it and those that do not. The orca is here to stay. It has survived many COOs and Directors of Brand Management. This is also why we have not seen a green primary jersey. CSE have invested too much in the "Canucks Blue" brand. We may see a 3rd jersey feature the green, but I highly doubt it. My thought on this is they have already had discussions with the Seattle group and arrived at the settlement of them both being able to use a Blue/Green brand, but Vancouver keeping Blue as Primary, leaving Green for Seattle. The most I see them changing down the road to the jersey (and what leaks have shown): Removal of Vancouver Altering shoulder patch Changing font (which they already have done on most branding materials - transition from AgencyFB to the more stylized one. in 2011, this was a big no no) Striping Keeping the corporate Orca will continue to make the Canucks brand one of the biggest laughing stocks and most complex in hockey and North American sports. No logo has ever divided any fan base any more than the Orca Bay-inspired logo. If Johnny Canuck were the primary logo since '97, I highly doubt that there would be outcries to get rid of it compared to the huge number of outcries to ditch the Orca. Well-respected sports uniform expert & critic Don Taylor from Donnie & The Moj says the logo sucks and fully supports Johnny Canuck. Jon Festinger, a regular guest on The Sport Market and a former vice-president of business with CSE has said that the Canucks need to "get rid of that awful Orca". As for Seattle, it's unlikely they will even use the Hartford Whalers 80's green with blue look. Chances are that they might be a forest green and salmon red team. A colour scheme far different than the Utica Comets beautiful Kelly green look with blue helmets and pants -> that's the look the Canucks should adopt as an alternate. As for Johnny Canuck, no matter if the alternate is green or blue, a well-designed JC jersey will outsell the Orca. 1 1 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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