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Playoffs, could it happen?

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45 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

* 2-5-1 in their last 8 games

* Injuries to key players piling up

* Benning's unwillingness to improve the team at the TDL

 

The answer is NO

I don't want him to improve the team at the TDL. I'd prefer no playoffs for this group at this time. One and done would not be very exciting for me as a fan.

 

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35 minutes ago, chilliwiggins said:

the tough part of the season is just beginning.   playing 500 up until now is fine, its what happens in the last 2 months that counts

Usually it gets really tough until TDL day and teams commit to buying or selling after the sellers might start "seeing what is in the system" or some other excuse for tanking.

Weak teams will start winning more games making them look better than they are and teams fighting for a spot will be playing "hard" games.

 

The Canucks are in a tough position, they have relied on Markstrom for at least 10 steals but he will not last playing every game down the stretch and I can't see management risking Demko for a hopeless cause.

 

The Canucks still need to groom enough young players to be competitive in the NHL as replacements for all the 30+ yr olds, they will not be hyper competitive while this is happening or be a good playoff team until they have more draft picks playing.

 

Hopefully management "sells" of some vets for whatever draft picks they can get, the value of Vancouver veterans declines every month, injury, lost game, contract cost.

 

This trying to remain "competitive" while rebuilding is a red herring, they are just not putting enough youth into regular roster spots or even getting the kids enough ice time in Utica. They need to have their really bad season and market the young kids playing on the team. It will be much easier for fans and players if the focus of the season is more on "development and training". The fans will have more than just Boeser, Horvat, Virtanen and EP to watch even if the team is losing. They will be able to see actual skill in the NHL rather than using their imaginations to project a perfect world where every deal and pick is a home run only to be disappointed if there isn't as much success as "dreamed" up.

 

You never know maybe 6 teams decide to tank or even a playoff team decides playing a one and done is not in the best interest of it's players learning curve and pumping fan expectations for the following season, expectations of improvement every year and the subsequent pressure on management to make it so.

Edited by TheGuardian_
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In this new NHL, if goal differential still holds as a decent predictor of a playoff berth the Canucks are destined to a lottery pick.

 

A week ago when they were minus 10 they had a chance to bring that up to evens (which is normally required to qualify for playoffs) within the number of games left. Teams have snuck in with a single-digit negative goal differential, but making the playoffs with a two-digit negative is extremely rare. Now that the Canucks are minus 18 it is almost impossible to close that gap in the remainder of the season (especially given our defense).

 

Goal differential predicts that the Eastern wild cards will be two of either Montreal, Pittsburgh, or Carolina; and that the Western wild cards will be two of either St. Louis, Minnesota, or Colorado.

 

All other teams currently outside of a wildcard do not have the positive goal differential required to make up the difference and thus will miss the playoffs.

 

I think this is a good outcome for Canucks fans...meaningful games foster fan excitement and player development, but we still get a lottery chance at a high pick.

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11 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Usually it gets really tough until TDL day and teams commit to buying or selling after the sellers might start "seeing what is in the system" or some other excuse for tanking.

Weak teams will start winning more games making them look better than they are and teams fighting for a spot will be playing "hard" games.

 

The Canucks are in a tough position, they have relied on Markstrom for at least 10 steals but he will not last playing every game down the stretch and I can't see management risking Demko for a hopeless cause.

 

The Canucks still need to groom enough young players to be competitive in the NHL as replacements for all the 30+ yr olds, they will not be hyper competitive while this is happening or be a good playoff team until they have more draft picks playing.

 

Hopefully management "sells" of some vets for whatever draft picks they can get, the value of Vancouver veterans declines every month, injury, lost game, contract cost.

 

This trying to remain "competitive" while rebuilding is a red herring, they are just not putting enough youth into regular roster spots or even getting the kids enough ice time in Utica. They need to have their really bad season and market the young kids playing on the team. It will be much easier for fans and players if the focus of the season is more on "development and training". The fans will have more than just Boeser, Horvat, Virtanen and EP to watch even if the team is losing. They will be able to see actual skill in the NHL rather than using their imaginations to project a perfect world where every deal and pick is a home run only to be disappointed if there isn't as much success as "dreamed" up.

 

You never know maybe 6 teams decide to tank or even a playoff team decides playing a one and done is not in the best interest of it's players learning curve and pumping fan expectations for the following season, expectations of improvement every year and the subsequent pressure on management to make it so.

I am with you on not wanting to make playoffs. 

 

I wanted to trade Tanev 3 years ago but that hope is fading just like his value. Yes, move whatever vets that have some value. 

IMHO the question to ask is whether the new core have advanced far enough to allow a serious pruning of vets. I am not suggesting moving more than 2 - 3 vets. There is no pressure to make moves by the TDL other than returning value. Tanev, Edler and Sutter are injured so by the Draft or next season works as well. I think the young core have made gains this year. EP40, BB, Bo, Virt and Mott have all impressed. On the back end it is all about Hutton and Stecher. Both have become top 4 d-men. Both are still developing. Stecher has really shown up on the PP. 

 

This does not change the depth reality in the org. Another strong draft this summer will go a long way to improving that depth. I do expect this group to make playoffs next year. 

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23 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

I am with you on not wanting to make playoffs. 

 

I wanted to trade Tanev 3 years ago but that hope is fading just like his value. Yes, move whatever vets that have some value. 

IMHO the question to ask is whether the new core have advanced far enough to allow a serious pruning of vets. I am not suggesting moving more than 2 - 3 vets. There is no pressure to make moves by the TDL other than returning value. Tanev, Edler and Sutter are injured so by the Draft or next season works as well. I think the young core have made gains this year. EP40, BB, Bo, Virt and Mott have all impressed. On the back end it is all about Hutton and Stecher. Both have become top 4 d-men. Both are still developing. Stecher has really shown up on the PP. 

 

This does not change the depth reality in the org. Another strong draft this summer will go a long way to improving that depth. I do expect this group to make playoffs next year. 

I have been reading post after post over the last three seasons about how injuries are to blame for poor results. And i have been posting there are not enough draft picks making or playing on the team longer than that.

 

Yes the team had injuries BUT those injuries were always showing a gapping hole of development and a window into how the future would pan out, only very slowly because vets are not being traded while they have value or at all.

 

Where are all the draft picks? 5 years of "superior" to Gillis picks and the team is still 2 injuries from collapse. Who picked who is now immaterial the picks need to be played or packaged and traded for other picks/prospects that can make the team within 3 years.

 

Every time there is an injury it is a glimpse of what playing rookies may look like and this team needs a lot of rookies with scoring skills and defensive skills yet.

Edited by TheGuardian_
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4 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Usually it gets really tough until TDL day and teams commit to buying or selling after the sellers might start "seeing what is in the system" or some other excuse for tanking.

Weak teams will start winning more games making them look better than they are and teams fighting for a spot will be playing "hard" games.

 

The Canucks are in a tough position, they have relied on Markstrom for at least 10 steals but he will not last playing every game down the stretch and I can't see management risking Demko for a hopeless cause.

 

The Canucks still need to groom enough young players to be competitive in the NHL as replacements for all the 30+ yr olds, they will not be hyper competitive while this is happening or be a good playoff team until they have more draft picks playing.

 

Hopefully management "sells" of some vets for whatever draft picks they can get, the value of Vancouver veterans declines every month, injury, lost game, contract cost.

 

This trying to remain "competitive" while rebuilding is a red herring, they are just not putting enough youth into regular roster spots or even getting the kids enough ice time in Utica. They need to have their really bad season and market the young kids playing on the team. It will be much easier for fans and players if the focus of the season is more on "development and training". The fans will have more than just Boeser, Horvat, Virtanen and EP to watch even if the team is losing. They will be able to see actual skill in the NHL rather than using their imaginations to project a perfect world where every deal and pick is a home run only to be disappointed if there isn't as much success as "dreamed" up.

 

You never know maybe 6 teams decide to tank or even a playoff team decides playing a one and done is not in the best interest of it's players learning curve and pumping fan expectations for the following season, expectations of improvement every year and the subsequent pressure on management to make it so.

You know you just described the tactics of Edmonton, Arizona, Buffalo and Carolina for like the last 10+ years right? How's that working out for them? :lol:

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26 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

You know you just described the tactics of Edmonton, Arizona, Buffalo and Carolina for like the last 10+ years right? How's that working out for them? :lol:

and that's the tactic for Chicago and pittsburgh too how that worked out for them? Arizona is just bad coz their owner group sucks and want to sell everything and pay the bare minimal. Carolina and Buffalo both looks great they are both outside the playoff coz the east is actually competitve unlike the west where their top 3 team outside the playoff would kick our top 2 wildcard teams out by a long shot. Carolina if their management ain't cheap and actually paid lindholm and Hanafin they prolly in the playoff right now. Buffalo have 2 franchise player to build around 1 on offense 1 on defense plus a whole load of young players with impact in the NHL. outside of Pettersson this year, the next best thing we have is Gaudette. great but not comparable and nothing in the AHL even looks remotely ready for the NHL other than our undrafted star Mceawen. on defense we are waiting for the arrival of Hughes who will probably struggle a little to start based on his size.. and then maybe Juolevi if he ever stays healthy and makes it to the NHL. you make it sound so easy that we can just go out and sign a bunch of free agents to make this team look good. we have 8.7mil cap space right now let just say it goes up to 10mil next year. Boeser is due for a raise and he'll likely be north of 6mil. Goldobin as bad as he is if we keep him he ain't gonna be 1mil. josh levio? ben Hutton? those guy will need a raise. and then 2 years from that we need to sign pettersson who if he keeps up us production will be costing us 10+mil. the anchor contract in eriksson ain't going anywhere. Gudbranson and Sutter will be done when pettersson is up for renewal so whatever cap saving u get from those 2 will probably all go into pettersson. so do we have a lot of cap space to sign anyone to big contract in the free agent anytime soon? not unless u get an idiot gm that's willing to take eriksson sutter and gudbranson off our hand.. maybe if we retain salary.. amd once again we have all these so call hot prospect.. but in reality none of them really have much trade value for you to go GET a player

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6 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said:

I have been reading post after post over the last three seasons about how injuries are to blame for poor results. And i have been posting there are not enough draft picks making or playing on the team longer than that.

 

Yes the team had injuries BUT those injuries were always showing a gapping hole of development and a window into how the future would pan out, only very slowly because vets are not being traded while they have value or at all.

 

Where are all the draft picks? 5 years of "superior" to Gillis picks and the team is still 2 injuries from collapse. Who picked who is now immaterial the picks need to be played or packaged and traded for other picks/prospects that can make the team within 3 years.

 

Every time there is an injury it is a glimpse of what playing rookies may look like and this team needs a lot of rookies with scoring skills and defensive skills yet.

I want Benning fired but attacking him for his drafting is nonsense.  Changing our scouting system is the one thing he's done very well.  

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1 hour ago, wai_lai416 said:

and that's the tactic for Chicago and pittsburgh too how that worked out for them? Arizona is just bad coz their owner group sucks and want to sell everything and pay the bare minimal. Carolina and Buffalo both looks great they are both outside the playoff coz the east is actually competitve unlike the west where their top 3 team outside the playoff would kick our top 2 wildcard teams out by a long shot. Carolina if their management ain't cheap and actually paid lindholm and Hanafin they prolly in the playoff right now. Buffalo have 2 franchise player to build around 1 on offense 1 on defense plus a whole load of young players with impact in the NHL. outside of Pettersson this year, the next best thing we have is Gaudette. great but not comparable and nothing in the AHL even looks remotely ready for the NHL other than our undrafted star Mceawen. on defense we are waiting for the arrival of Hughes who will probably struggle a little to start based on his size.. and then maybe Juolevi if he ever stays healthy and makes it to the NHL. you make it sound so easy that we can just go out and sign a bunch of free agents to make this team look good. we have 8.7mil cap space right now let just say it goes up to 10mil next year. Boeser is due for a raise and he'll likely be north of 6mil. Goldobin as bad as he is if we keep him he ain't gonna be 1mil. josh levio? ben Hutton? those guy will need a raise. and then 2 years from that we need to sign pettersson who if he keeps up us production will be costing us 10+mil. the anchor contract in eriksson ain't going anywhere. Gudbranson and Sutter will be done when pettersson is up for renewal so whatever cap saving u get from those 2 will probably all go into pettersson. so do we have a lot of cap space to sign anyone to big contract in the free agent anytime soon? not unless u get an idiot gm that's willing to take eriksson sutter and gudbranson off our hand.. maybe if we retain salary.. amd once again we have all these so call hot prospect.. but in reality none of them really have much trade value for you to go GET a player

Wow, long sentence and no not the same. Those two teams sucked for real. ::D

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44 minutes ago, MoneypuckOverlord said:

Edler being out is putting our playoffs hope on the line.  Baertchi being out hurts too.

Yep, throw in Tanev, Sutter again and Virtanen and that's a wrap. 

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Canuck's still managed to win today,

 

SO here's the best case scenarios until our game:

 

Friday, Feb 15:

CAR Beats EDM

NJD beats MIN

BOS beats ANA

 

Saturday, Feb 16:

STL Beats COL

TOR Beats ARI

NYI Beats EDM

CBJ Beats CHI

VAN Beats SJS

BOS Beats LAK

NSH Beats VGK

CAR Beats DAL

 

Best Case Scenario:

WC:

WC1: DAL - 58 GP / 63 PTS

WC2: VAN - 60 GP / 61 PTS

1: MIN - 58 GP / 59 PTS

2: COL - 58 GP / 57 PTS

3: CHI - 59 GP / 57 PTS

4: ARI - 58 GP / 55 PTS

5: EDM - 58 GP / 53 PTS

6: ANA - 58 GP / 53 PTS

7: LAK - 58 GP / 52 PTS

 

Worst Case Scenario:

WC:

WC1: STL - 57 GP / 63 PTS

WC2: MIN - 58 GP / 61 PTS

1: COL - 58 GP / 59 PTS

2: CHI - 59 GP / 59 PTS

3: VAN - 60 GP / 59 PTS

4: ARI - 58 GP / 57 PTS

5: EDM - 58 GP / 57 PTS

6: ANA - 58 GP / 55 PTS

7: LAK - 58 GP / 54 PTS

 

One Point Scenario:

WC1: DAL - 58 GP / 64 PTS

WC2: MIN - 58 GP / 60 PTS

1: VAN - 60 GP / 60 PTS

2: COL - 58 GP / 57 PTS

3: CHI - 59 GP / 56 PTS

4: EDM - 58 GP / 55 PTS

5: ARI - 58 GP / 54 PTS

6: ANA - 58 GP / 54 PTS

7: LAK - 58 GP / 53 PTS

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11 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Usually it gets really tough until TDL day and teams commit to buying or selling after the sellers might start "seeing what is in the system" or some other excuse for tanking.

Weak teams will start winning more games making them look better than they are and teams fighting for a spot will be playing "hard" games.

 

The Canucks are in a tough position, they have relied on Markstrom for at least 10 steals but he will not last playing every game down the stretch and I can't see management risking Demko for a hopeless cause.

 

The Canucks still need to groom enough young players to be competitive in the NHL as replacements for all the 30+ yr olds, they will not be hyper competitive while this is happening or be a good playoff team until they have more draft picks playing.

 

Hopefully management "sells" of some vets for whatever draft picks they can get, the value of Vancouver veterans declines every month, injury, lost game, contract cost.

 

This trying to remain "competitive" while rebuilding is a red herring, they are just not putting enough youth into regular roster spots or even getting the kids enough ice time in Utica. They need to have their really bad season and market the young kids playing on the team. It will be much easier for fans and players if the focus of the season is more on "development and training". The fans will have more than just Boeser, Horvat, Virtanen and EP to watch even if the team is losing. They will be able to see actual skill in the NHL rather than using their imaginations to project a perfect world where every deal and pick is a home run only to be disappointed if there isn't as much success as "dreamed" up.

 

You never know maybe 6 teams decide to tank or even a playoff team decides playing a one and done is not in the best interest of it's players learning curve and pumping fan expectations for the following season, expectations of improvement every year and the subsequent pressure on management to make it so.

Benning is not looking to acquire more picks.  He wants to make hockey trades.   He wants the team to move forward.  Windows are much shorter now - cap but also players more willing to test free agency.  It takes for ages for a late pick to make the NHL if they even do re his comment about last 1st rounders not even playing.

 

Top players coming off their ELCs are no longer looking for a bridge deal.  They want to get paid at their real value.  They no longer agree to subsidise veterans who are less important to their teams' success than they are.  Cap crunch is coming much faster.  

 

They are also looking for deals that will bring them quicker to UFA status so they can control their future.  It also allows them to negotiate a 2nd high contract instead of just 1.  Tavares left in free agency and had his choice of team - he wanted to win and didn't think he could with NYI.  McDavid committed 8 years and is wasting his best years in Edmonton.  Matthews' approach is more interesting - 5 years and then he can test free agency if he wants and will get another high contract.

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Canucks have 3 games left before the deadline. While the blues have 6, wild have 6 and that stars have 5. I’d say a win against the sharks is almost a must to keep us in the playoff push direction. 

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18 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said:

I have been reading post after post over the last three seasons about how injuries are to blame for poor results. And i have been posting there are not enough draft picks making or playing on the team longer than that.

 

Yes the team had injuries BUT those injuries were always showing a gapping hole of development and a window into how the future would pan out, only very slowly because vets are not being traded while they have value or at all.

 

Where are all the draft picks? 5 years of "superior" to Gillis picks and the team is still 2 injuries from collapse. Who picked who is now immaterial the picks need to be played or packaged and traded for other picks/prospects that can make the team within 3 years.

 

Every time there is an injury it is a glimpse of what playing rookies may look like and this team needs a lot of rookies with scoring skills and defensive skills yet.

They are still serving 2 MASTERS

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To the posters complaining about a lack of youth I’m not sure what you are seeing but most of the guys playing key roles for us are under 25.  In Utica we have so many legit prospects that getting them all ice time is our biggest problem.  Our top defence prospects should be regulars as soon as next season.  As our prospects start pushing up the lineup we will have opportunities to trade guys out for additional assets.  Being in a playoff race is a net positive even if we miss as we should want our players playing meaningful games so we can continue to build momentum.

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16 hours ago, EdgarM said:

You know you just described the tactics of Edmonton, Arizona, Buffalo and Carolina for like the last 10+ years right? How's that working out for them? :lol:

Exactly, Benning is following their plan.

1 hour ago, flat land fish said:

To the posters complaining about a lack of youth I’m not sure what you are seeing but most of the guys playing key roles for us are under 25.  In Utica we have so many legit prospects that getting them all ice time is our biggest problem.  Our top defence prospects should be regulars as soon as next season.  As our prospects start pushing up the lineup we will have opportunities to trade guys out for additional assets.  Being in a playoff race is a net positive even if we miss as we should want our players playing meaningful games so we can continue to build momentum.

One scoring line, "secondary scoring" remember those terms? For over a decade behind the twins.

The teams youth, EP, a surprise how good, Boeser  and Horvat, IMHO that is not enough elite level forwards, Colorado had more and it was not enough. Pitt and Chicago get away with it because their super stars were top 3 picks and are elite, all have won the Art Ross.

 

Young does not mean good all the time, the team is still the worst in the league over the last 4 years and there is bound to be a dip once Tanev, Edler and a few of the other 30+ 's go or their skills decline over the next season or two.

 

As much as alot of folk want to see the current group as almost being there the mere fact that winning two games in the last five has kept the team in the same spot in the standings should show how bad this conference and division is this year, it isn't so much being good as it is not being as bad.

If teams behind the Nucks pay .500 hockey some will pass the Canucks.

 

Benning's comments about doing only hockey trades and not trading for the future sounds an awful lot like he feels the rebuild is over and the fight for mediocrity is on and will satisfy the lemmings/masses, if that is his myopic view then he should be reigned in and paid out. I don't know in what world he see's this group, even with a successful OJ and Hughes, as serious cup contenders. He only has to look at how his team plays now to see a mad hatter system of checking, checking, checking and how effective they are versus good teams with more than one scoring line, if he is satisfied then they could be looking at an Edmonton type situation, McDavid - EP, Dras - Horvat, RNH - Boeser, Hutton - Nurse, …. the best payer and still being held down. 

1 hour ago, flat land fish said:

To the posters complaining about a lack of youth I’m not sure what you are seeing but most of the guys playing key roles for us are under 25.  In Utica we have so many legit prospects that getting them all ice time is our biggest problem.  Our top defence prospects should be regulars as soon as next season.  As our prospects start pushing up the lineup we will have opportunities to trade guys out for additional assets.  Being in a playoff race is a net positive even if we miss as we should want our players playing meaningful games so we can continue to build momentum.

don't know if you have been hearing but the kids, Lind, Ostravich and others are being platooned in Utica, AHL vets are getting the most ice time.

 

A playoff race should start at game one. 

What defensive prospects? Push who?

I don't disagree that prospects need NHL ice time, so far management is only feeding fans the elite of the draft picks, EP, BB, Gaudette, JV, the most ready to go but some will need time to adjust, if they can and that will cause more losses.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by TheGuardian_

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I can 't beleive the amount of people here moaning about where this team is at, blows my mind.  We are in the middle of a rebuild, 4 years removed from a 100 point season and a long stretch of years competitive teams.   We landed an all world talent in EP that nobody was really expecting.  We would be a bottom 5 team without him, but because he is here, we are in the mix for a playoff spot.  Our youth is still a year away, EP cannot speed that up.  We've had 5 rookies, Demko, EP, Gaudette, Brisebois, Macewen all get NHL time this year, and Hughes will likely to.  We've got a few high end young talents, a few established NHL guys, lots of scrubs and filler, a boatload of A and B prospects in the system, and a ton of cap space.  This rebuild  is right on track, and will be coming to a close as early as next season.  That is pretty damn good, lot's of teams take a decade or more get out of rebuilds.

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1 hour ago, BCNate said:

I can 't beleive the amount of people here moaning about where this team is at, blows my mind.  We are in the middle of a rebuild, 4 years removed from a 100 point season and a long stretch of years competitive teams.   We landed an all world talent in EP that nobody was really expecting.  We would be a bottom 5 team without him, but because he is here, we are in the mix for a playoff spot.  Our youth is still a year away, EP cannot speed that up.  We've had 5 rookies, Demko, EP, Gaudette, Brisebois, Macewen all get NHL time this year, and Hughes will likely to.  We've got a few high end young talents, a few established NHL guys, lots of scrubs and filler, a boatload of A and B prospects in the system, and a ton of cap space.  This rebuild  is right on track, and will be coming to a close as early as next season.  That is pretty damn good, lot's of teams take a decade or more get out of rebuilds.

Hell Edmonton is on the cusp of a second rebuild in 10 years after failing to complete the first even with McDavid :lol:

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