The Captaincy question

[Baggins]

10 hours ago, pgcanuck said:

Bo is the next captain. You've heard it from the fans, the media and the players. He has shown grit and determination leading the team when the chips have been down. 2nd in points playing a more defensive role.  Taking on whatever role his team needs him to play. Staying in Vancouver when he could have taken bigger dollars elsewhere.  He has been the engine and workhorse of this team for the past few seasons.

How? He was an RFA and nobody dropped an offer sheet on him all summer. Which the Canucks could have matched anyway. He got a little more than I expected.

[LowerMainLander18]

On 1/4/2019 at 3:34 PM, Slegr said:

When this season started, I was a bit surprised that they hadn't yet made Horvat the captain of the Canucks. I wasn't sure why they wanted to wait - did he really need more time, with less pressure on him?

 

Then I saw what EP40 brings to the team. He may very well turn out to be the best Canuck of all time. Forgot the Calder, in some circles his name comes up in Hart trophy discussions already. 

 

So now I wonder, who really should be the captain of this team? It's a bit of apples to oranges, but I think back to Gretzky and Messier on the Oilers. One was pure offense, while Messier brought some sandpaper and more traditional leadership qualities (although we as Canucks fans can rightfully dispute that). But it was #99 who was the captain, because, ultimately, he was a superior player. On the flip side, we had Linden and Bure play together, with Linden getting the captaincy.. although to be fair, Linden was given the captaincy before Bure even arrived.

 

This season, Horvat is having a record year offensively. He also plays responsibly at both ends of the ice. Still, if we have an opportunity to give one of these players the captaincy, and in 10 years from now, we'll be looking back on it, reflecting on whether it was the right decision, who do you think it should go to? I'm leaning more towards EP40 every passing day.

Wayne Gretzky is Wayne Gretzky tho.. 

Even if he cherrypicks 24-7, he should still be the captain because he's Wayne Gretzky.

He was just that far off from everybody else in the game.

 

As to our Captain, we shouldn't look at offensive numbers alone. 

[Rush17]

Elias Pettersson is really good at bringing the locker room together and creating that close knitt bond. He gave a speech after his hatty that really rallied the room. Markstrom spoke to Botchford about it. 

 

Check out the latest patcast to listen to the story. It was really cool to listen too. I'm not surprised though Petey did this type of thing last year in vaxjo. He is really an open, honest, and loving teammate. Definitely a glue guy in the room. I give him credit for showing the team losing isn't acceptable.

 

I remember that one game we lost late in the third. He and Boeser looked at the tablet after the goal and they had the look of okay that's not happening again.  Then Petey gave a speech to the room saying he's happy for his success that game but we can't lose those games. Then told the media that too.

 

I think he's the reason why this team along the additions of Roussel and Beagle are why this team has a new confidence. The team seemed shocked they could win early in the year because the players were so indoctrinated in losing. Petey, beagle, and Rous are helping set the character and culture of the room. I love it. 

[EdgarM]

2 hours ago, LowerMainLander18 said:

Wayne Gretzky is Wayne Gretzky tho.. 

Even if he cherrypicks 24-7, he should still be the captain because he's Wayne Gretzky.

He was just that far off from everybody else in the game.

 

As to our Captain, we shouldn't look at offensive numbers alone. 

"He was just that far off from everybody else in the game." - Are you talking about Gretzky or Petey? 

 

"As to our Captain, we shouldn't look at offensive numbers alone." - Some of us are not looking at offensive numbers at all, this kid has so much more to bring to the table including an unrelentless desire to win and the desire to perform well every game. That's what makes him a cut above players with pure offensive skills. He actually has good defensive skills as well which is not common for a player with so much offensive ability.

[smokes]

It's not just offence. The team just doesn't look the same without Petey. Horvat would be a great AC but Pettersson is more captain material to me. Not only does he drive the offence, but he makes players that much better while still being to elevate his own game. If you take Horvat in his rookie year and Pettersson in his rookie year, who in your mind looks more like the future captain. 

[Dr. Crossbar]

1 hour ago, smokes said:

If you take Horvat in his rookie year and Pettersson in his rookie year, who in your mind looks more like the future captain. 

This is a really interesting point. 

 

In fairness to Horvat, he stepped into the lineup with Hank as captain. That's a huge leadership shadow and big shoes to fill as far as capataincy. As a rookie, he didn't really have the same luxury to be quite as noticeable as future captain as Pettersson has now. There was a lot more that Bo had to earn and learn to compliment his natural leadership. We watched him grow into that role.

 

Plus Bo was really the only stable glimpse into the future we had for a few seasons, so it was much easier for us as fans to see him (and annoint him) as future captain. We didn't have anyone else to compare until now ... and really, he didn't have any competition for the captaincy.

 

Pettersson stepped into the lineup without the shadow of the Sedins leadership, Horvat as the assumed leader, and a captaincy by committee. 

 

So now for the first time post-Sedins we're actually seeing two different types of future leaders. It's a win-win for the team and I'd be happy with either one as captain.
 

Just from a general, gut observation perspective in terms of captain material, Pettersson is already emerging as the leader of this team. The greatest contributing factor is his composure under pressure both on and off the ice. 

 

It's also interesting to note that whenever anyone from our team is interviewed, they're consistently asked about playing with Pettersson. 

 

I'd hate for Horvat to get the "C" only for everyone to say, "Yeah, but what does Petey think?" whenever he tries to speak as THE leader. 

 

[coastal.view]

19 minutes ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

This is a really interesting point. 

 

In fairness to Horvat, he stepped into the lineup with Hank as captain. That's a huge leadership shadow and big shoes to fill as far as capataincy. As a rookie, he didn't really have the same luxury to be quite as noticeable as future captain as Pettersson has now. There was a lot more that Bo had to earn and learn to compliment his natural leadership. We watched him grow into that role.

 

Plus Bo was really the only stable glimpse into the future we had for a few seasons, so it was much easier for us as fans to see him (and annoint him) as future captain. We didn't have anyone else to compare until now ... and really, he didn't have any competition for the captaincy.

 

Pettersson stepped into the lineup without the shadow of the Sedins leadership, Horvat as the assumed leader, and a captaincy by committee. 

 

So now for the first time post-Sedins we're actually seeing two different types of future leaders. It's a win-win for the team and I'd be happy with either one as captain.
 

Just from a general, gut observation perspective in terms of captain material, Pettersson is already emerging as the leader of this team. The greatest contributing factor is his composure under pressure both on and off the ice. 

 

It's also interesting to note that whenever anyone from our team is interviewed, they're consistently asked about playing with Pettersson.  

 

I'd hate for Horvat to get the "C" only for everyone to say, "Yeah, but what does Petey think?" whenever he tries to speak as THE leader. 

  

i think this is pretty important

i kinda feel that ep40's views need to be considered when a captain is named

i feel more strongly about that

then canvassing bo's views when a captain is named

 

[Nucker 67]

Pettersson is the best player, centres the top line, and maybe even the smartest player as well. I think Canucks management haven't handed Bo the C yet because they want to wait and see what happens at the Draft and to see how Pettersson does in his first year.  If they draft a C (Hughes, Dach, Cousins, etc.) then Horvat becomes tradable. Perhaps for an upgrade on D.

 

Bo has gone quietly about his game this year. He does everything right and has carried this team on his back before. But Pettersson has superstar status and will become the face of the franchise. Bo will continue to work hard and do the right things, lead by example etc., but I think Pettersson will be the new Captain next year, even if Bo stays. That's my guess.

[Jaimito]

On 1/6/2019 at 10:28 PM, EdgarM said:

I don't give a cr@p what his "media responsibilities" are, his main responsibility should be to take this team to WINNING A STANLEY CUP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think he will win us the cup without any letter on his jersey, as long as it is a Canucks sweater. 

 

Bo plays PP, PK. 5 on 5. The guy will be on ice to argue with the refs etc.

 

I don't question Elias motivation or ability to lead the team. You can't hide talent and drive and he has both. 

 

The only thing that matters to us as a fan is what jersey to buy and which will have a C or A on it. Lol. 

[Slegr]

So many good points on all sides of this equation. It's great to have options.

 

[CptCanuck16]

Beautiful meme!

On 1/5/2019 at 11:42 AM, 189lb enforcers? said:

 

 

I saw this and laughed.

 

 

 

[smokes]

14 hours ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

This is a really interesting point. 

 

In fairness to Horvat, he stepped into the lineup with Hank as captain. That's a huge leadership shadow and big shoes to fill as far as capataincy. As a rookie, he didn't really have the same luxury to be quite as noticeable as future captain as Pettersson has now. There was a lot more that Bo had to earn and learn to compliment his natural leadership. We watched him grow into that role.

 

Plus Bo was really the only stable glimpse into the future we had for a few seasons, so it was much easier for us as fans to see him (and annoint him) as future captain. We didn't have anyone else to compare until now ... and really, he didn't have any competition for the captaincy.

 

Pettersson stepped into the lineup without the shadow of the Sedins leadership, Horvat as the assumed leader, and a captaincy by committee. 

 

So now for the first time post-Sedins we're actually seeing two different types of future leaders. It's a win-win for the team and I'd be happy with either one as captain.
 

Just from a general, gut observation perspective in terms of captain material, Pettersson is already emerging as the leader of this team. The greatest contributing factor is his composure under pressure both on and off the ice. 

 

It's also interesting to note that whenever anyone from our team is interviewed, they're consistently asked about playing with Pettersson. 

 

I'd hate for Horvat to get the "C" only for everyone to say, "Yeah, but what does Petey think?" whenever he tries to speak as THE leader. 

 

In my mind Petey has already taken over the mantle of the number one center on the team. Horvat is my awesome number two center. The thing is, how many winning teams do you know has the captain on the second line?

[EdgarM]

20 hours ago, Jaimito said:

I think he will win us the cup without any letter on his jersey, as long as it is a Canucks sweater. 

 

Bo plays PP, PK. 5 on 5. The guy will be on ice to argue with the refs etc.

 

I don't question Elias motivation or ability to lead the team. You can't hide talent and drive and he has both. 

 

The only thing that matters to us as a fan is what jersey to buy and which will have a C or A on it. Lol. 

This drive is what I want the rest of the team to have going into the playoffs. I really believe the Captain and the leadership dictate this "Drive". How can the team not follow when your Captain is doing EVERYTHING in his power to win a game? Did Hank and Nazzy leave everything on the ice in the playoffs? They were great players, no doubt, but I did not see this "drive" when it came to winning games or winning in the playoffs. It was like it was "another day at the office" for them. I want more from a Captain. I want them to show emotion when something didn't go right or they lost a game. 

I don't care who argues with the refs because it won't make a difference either way anyway.

[Dr. Crossbar]

9 hours ago, smokes said:

In my mind Petey has already taken over the mantle of the number one center on the team. Horvat is my awesome number two center. The thing is, how many winning teams do you know has the captain on the second line?

I get what you're saying and don't disagree.

 

I've never thought that a number one center HAS to be captain simply because he's the number one center.

 

It's only natural your star player assumes a level of captaincy. That's part of the responsibility of being a star and leading by example. Plus there's also an organic perception and expectation as well. Stars are leaders by default whether they want to be or not. 

 

At the same time, talent doesn't always equate to the character of a captain. I tend to leave room for other dynamics in certain cases. On ice production and talent are only a couple layers of leadership.

 

I do think a 2nd line center can be captain. It just depends on the individuals as leaders, team dynamics, culture, what the players want, and what's best for the team. 

 

In our case, to a certain degree in hindsight, I think the anointment of "Bo as future captain" started way too early on an emotional level. It just didn't leave room for anyone else. All of a sudden, a guy like Petey arrives and it forces fans to re-evaluate. 

 

It's interesting, too, in regard to your point, because many on here had Bo pegged as our future 2nd line center anyway. So on some level, our 2nd line center was already being seen as the captain ... if that makes any sense. 

 

I'm not saying Horvat isn't captain material either. I just think the anointment of Horvat as future captain was too soon.

 

I'm not really a fan of "captaincy by committee" but now that we're into the season, I do think the team made the right move in not naming one captain. That leaves room for a definitive leader to emerge, which we're seeing. 

 

 

Edited January 9, 2019 by Dr. Crossbar
.

[Slegr]

On 1/8/2019 at 6:02 AM, LowerMainLander18 said:

Wayne Gretzky is Wayne Gretzky tho.. 

Even if he cherrypicks 24-7, he should still be the captain because he's Wayne Gretzky.

He was just that far off from everybody else in the game.

 

As to our Captain, we shouldn't look at offensive numbers alone. 

 

While there will never be another Gretzky, it is interesting that Pettersson is so often being compared to the Great One. Of all the current NHL players, he does seem to perhaps resemble and play the most similar to #99. Some may say McDavid is the closest thing, but I'd disagree. That's not to say McDavid is not perhaps the best player in the NHL today, but quite frankly, he reminds me more of a player like Gilbert Perreault (although better). He's fast (unlike Gretzky) and plays that kind of intense game. Gretzky played at his pace and was just thinking the game so much further ahead of everyone else with each play, similar to Pettersson. And look how they carry themselves so similarly....

 

 

Each passing day, I'm thinking more about how great the C would look on #40.

 

[ItsAllOursBoys]

On 1/4/2019 at 3:07 PM, NUCKER67 said:

I was always on the Horvat train, captain material. But saying that, Horvat is a workhorse, but not the best player on the team. Nor, centering the top line. Bo is great in front of the media, but so is Pettersson. His death stare puts them in their place. I would be fine with either Bo or Elias. Maybe the Canucks are waiting to see if they get the 1st at the Draft before making any decisions. My guess is: if they get the #1 and draft Jack Hughes, then Horvat could eventually be traded.   

 

[Pickly]

2 hours ago, ItsAllOursBoys said:

 

It’s not as far fetched as you think. 

[Where'd Luongo?]

Can you imagine if Horvat was our 3rd line center? We would win every game.

[Nucker 67]

Just for fun:

 

Canucks get the #1, Draft Jack Hughes

 

to CAR - Horvat

to VAN - Ferland and a 2nd

 

Ferland - Pettersson - Boeser

Leivo - Hughes - Goldobin (may need to upgrade the wingers)

 

 

[Wayne Glensky]

16 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

Just for fun:

 

Canucks get the #1, Draft Jack Hughes

 

to CAR - Horvat

to VAN - Ferland and a 2nd

 

Ferland - Pettersson - Boeser

Leivo - Hughes - Goldobin (may need to upgrade the wingers)

 

 

Ferland and a second? That’s a pretty garbage proposal I’m sorry, but horvat it worth a lot more than a 3rd and sometimes 2nd line winger on a bad team.