Rush17

All this talk about Alex Edler and Chris Tanev, What about Erik Gudbranson??

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8 minutes ago, Glug Datt said:

biggest question I have is where does Eric slot in realistically on a contender...? 4th? 5th?

Depends on the contender.

 

Toronto? Maybe even 3rd :ph34r:. Nashville? 5th or 6th.

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2 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Depends on the contender.

 

Toronto? Maybe even 3rd :ph34r:. Nashville? 5th or 6th.

yup TO is the only team I could see pursuing him. (do they offer nylander? lol) 

 

let's face it, he can help any team on a run, but I think he's down the totem pole on most contenders, so the return might not be worth it.

 

he'd be useful to any team in the league really, but what do they offer?wouldn't we need a promising D prospect in return? 

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3 minutes ago, Glug Datt said:

yup TO is the only team I could see pursuing him. (do they offer nylander? lol) 

 

let's face it, he can help any team on a run, but I think he's down the totem pole on most contenders, so the return might not be worth it.

 

he'd be useful to any team in the league really, but what do they offer?wouldn't we need a promising D prospect in return? 

Agree. We're likely better off keeping him and improving the depth in front of him. The anti-Toronto :lol:

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14 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Agree. We're likely better off keeping him and improving the depth in front of him. The anti-Toronto :lol:

that's a good way of putting it - improving the depth in front of him. and until we see how OJ, Hughes, Woo, Chatfield, etc pan out, it's risky to move him

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8 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

All these people who diss Gudbranson are forgetting what happened to Florida after the trade.

 

Prior to Guddy trade they were a contender and in the playoffs.

 

After the trade they reverted to a non-playoff team.

 

No, not really.

 

I mean, they went on a nice regular season run in 2015-16, and won their division. But they got bounced in the 1st round by the Islanders - not exactly a dominant team (they haven't made the playoffs since either). The Lightning took out the Isles quite handily in the 2nd round, 4 games to 1 (and outscoring them 10-3 total in 3 of the games).

 

The next season the expectations were probably too high. Add to that a rash of injuries, mostly at the beginning of the season (Barkov missed 21 games that season, Ekblad 14, Bjugstad 28, and Huberdeau 51). Then the computer boys over-reacted, and fired Gallant, who has proven to be one of the best coaches in the league. And then when Tallon was given the reigns back, he over-reacted the other way, and dealt Vegas two smaller skilled guys in Reilly Smith and Jonathan Marchessault, so he could protect another young, gritty, defensive defenseman in Petrovic (who has since been traded for scraps).

 

There are many reasons why the Panthers have not been back to the playoffs since dealing Gudbranson, but Gudbranson himself isn't the main reason for it. It's mostly mismanagement. I'm not saying he's worthless, but he's also not a core player on a good team. If Florida wants him back, I'd gladly take one of their skilled forward prospects for him, as they are absolutely swimming in them (Heponiemi?).

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On 1/8/2019 at 5:04 PM, Rush17 said:

 

I think we should be open to a debate of whether or not Erik Gudbranson could land us what we are looking for ie a good prospect or pick.

 

Clearly I'm not the only person that got a laugh out of essentially referring to yourself in the 3rd person in the OP.

 

What "we" are looking for is a pick or good prospect....?

 

Clearly you're not looking very hard = I just found handfuls of both of them.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00008756.html

https://www.prosportstransactions.com/hockey/DraftTrades/Future/Canucks.htm

 

A lot of good prospects there.

9 picks in this draft, and a full complement moving forward.

 

But, but that next pick will be THE ONE!

 

In all likelihood the top pick in this coming draft will be this franchise's own, period.  Already in their possession.

 

The object is not simply to add a pick or prospect - the myopia in the obsession over every last potential future is strange to say the least, but has been in-vogue around here for some time. 

 

The reasons for considering dealing a veteran player like Tanev or Edler in transition ought to be patently obvious - with more limited years overlapping the team's future trajectory - and even in those instances, a pick or prospect would not necessarily suffice = this obsessive objective is simply not shared by management.

 

 

 

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I think he is way too slow for this game. Doesn’t have the marketability teams want. I don’t even want him but we are stuck with him since 3/4 of our defence is terrible. 

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On 1/8/2019 at 5:15 PM, bishopshodan said:

Nope,

Guddy is younger and we need someone who can perform decent punchy-face now and again. 

Thats not Gudbranson then....  lets acquire a player that actually is willing to stick up for his teamates......

 

Trade Guddy for a bag of pucks if that all we can get for him....

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1 hour ago, kingofsurrey said:

Thats not Gudbranson then....  lets acquire a player that actually is willing to stick up for his teamates......

 

Trade Guddy for a bag of pucks if that all we can get for him....

Well, that's a convo for when we actually acquire said player.

Yet, I believe Gud does stick up for players when appropriate. That turd that hurt EP for example should not have been dealt with by Erik. That would have been a vulgar display of power, a mismatch, as any one of the Nucks could have likely tuned up that 18yr old. Plus, I think he has been a bit injured...I also think that Green maybe holding him back a touch.

 

Having a fella that can fight heavy weights in our D corps is an asset for this team. I'm not against adding some grit though in addition. 

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I wouldn't trade Gud unless a late first and a B prospect was the return. He makes the team a foot taller.

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On 1/8/2019 at 5:04 PM, Rush17 said:

 

Last season multiple teams were interested in acquiring Erik Gudbranson before we signed him to an extension. I'm curious why this is no longer a talking point. I know Alex Edler and Chris Tanev are older.. But this organization has gone out of their way to add "veteran leadership" to this squad. Alex Edler is hands down our best defenceman right now. Chris Tanev is the perfect partner for Quinn Hughes who may land in Vancouver in as little as two months time.

 

Now that Erik Gudbranson has term on his contract I don't see why we can't move him for "the picks or prospects" we were hoping to get from a Chris Tanev or Alex Edler deal. Edler wants to remain in Vancouver.. If he does waive he likely wants to re-sign here. That lowers his value. Chris Tanev is having less than stellar years compared to years past.  I don't think selling on either of these guys is necessary the right move if we wish to compete in the playoffs this season or next.

 

I think we should be open to a debate of whether or not Erik Gudbranson could land us what we are looking for ie a good prospect or pick. The rental market on D is slim, Gudbranson is just entering his prime and his skill set doesn't really mesh well with Green's uptempo style. We see Gudbranson struggling to keep up despite his really good skating skills. Erik Gudbranson could be far more valuable to a heavier, slower, and more methodical team. 

What do you guys think? should we also be looking at Erik Gudbranson?? is he the better player to move if there is a market for him? Just because he appears slow in our system doesn't mean he's a slow player. In fact, he is very fast for his size. Tell me what you think. Let's have a talk.

 

Seriously? Whose physically bigger? Unless we get dougie Hamilton by some miracle then we need Guds for at least "some" pushback when things get nasty..

 

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During one of the intermissions they talked about Edler and Tanev. They seem to think keeping Edler and Tanev would be wise. But rather look to change up other parts of the D. 

 

Gudbranson's name was mentioned in the intermission with Edler/Tanev. 

 

Mission accomplished lol. Let's talk about it. Is Guddy a long term fit? If he stays who do we move?

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8 hours ago, Rush17 said:

Is Guddy a long term fit? If he stays who do we move?

He's only under contract for 3 more years FYI. 

 

MDZ, Pouliot, package Hutton for an upgrade etc. The problem isn't the middle of our D.

 

On 1/9/2019 at 9:28 AM, aGENT said:

Basically this. Our problem isn't the 'middle' of the D core, our problem is a lack of top end talent on the D core pushing middling guys like Hutton, Stecher or Gudbranson etc to 3rd pair/fill-in 2nd pair roles where they'd arguably be 'too good' for an 'average' team's 3rd pair (aka: a playoff team/eventual contender).

 

This should be far less surprising to people than it is, given that we're a rebuilding team, but I digress...

 

We have a solid #2 in Edler and a 2B/3A in Tanev as our top pair. That's not good enough to be considered 'average' let alone a playoff team/contender (which again, should surprise literally no one, yet...).

 

You could have Edler on a 1st pair with preferably a #1D (or another #2 D should we lack the #1 option) and Tanev on a 2nd pair and suddenly the D looks MILES better as it pushes those middle guys down the line up and gets the AHL'ers currently on the third pair in the press box or a AHL where they belong.

 

Adding Hughes will help but perhaps not as immediately as many people hope/assume. I'm sure he'll see loads of PP time but he'll likely start the season playing closer to 3rd pair minutes, o-zone starts etc 5v5.

 

It's why I'm not opposed to the Canucks targeting the bigger D fish this free agency. Karlsson (a #1D) or Myers (another 2B/3A) would add top end talent to our D core and push guys down making us FAR better in one step. (That is of course if Pettersson et al are enough to start attracting these guys, this soon). Then you add in Hughes, and eventually Juolevi, Woo etc and then hopefully have a couple guys like Brisebois and Rathbone etc push the roster from below and you end up with a deep, high quality D core one hopes.

 

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On 1/9/2019 at 2:13 PM, aGENT said:

The way the game's played these days, besides fighting being down, you also can't go chasing hits anymore. He'd be in Green's dog house if he played the way you guys are describing. 

 

Never mind how short handed with injury the team has been the last couple years (or how short of talent in general, given were in a rebuild).

 

As our depth and talent improves around him, I have little doubt Green will let him lose a bit more and it won't be required for him to play so 'safe'.

The same thing happened to JV early on, under WD at first he would run around anywhere looking for a big hit, didn’t take long for that to be reeled in and for him to end up in the dog house.  I agree that hitting is down (although what I’d question what used to be not considered a hit and just finishing a check is now often counted as a hit) at least the big hitting is.  Still would love him to lay guys when he can, make them pay for coming into our zone, it’s a good tactic in getting guys off their game.

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On 1/9/2019 at 12:37 PM, Glug Datt said:

yup TO is the only team I could see pursuing him.

Sorry for the delayed response.

 

I doubt TOR would be the only team pursuing him. Most teams would gladly add an EG for playoff hockey. They might be one of the few who arguably 'need' him (quality D depth in general) though.

 

38 minutes ago, IBatch said:

The same thing happened to JV early on, under WD at first he would run around anywhere looking for a big hit, didn’t take long for that to be reeled in and for him to end up in the dog house.  I agree that hitting is down (although what I’d question what used to be not considered a hit and just finishing a check is now often counted as a hit) at least the big hitting is.  Still would love him to lay guys when he can, make them pay for coming into our zone, it’s a good tactic in getting guys off their game.

Same thing happens for any player that wants to be NHL'er. With the speed the game is played at now, you simply can't chase hits. You do that and the puck is turned over to the free man you opened by being out of position, and it's in the back of your net faster than you can say 'sorry coach'.

 

By all means be physical when the opportunity is there to rub a guy out etc but the game is about puck possession and separating the puck from the opposition (usually as much or more with your stick these days) and getting it to an open team mate while staying in position in case they lose it... is BEATEN in to every player. 

 

 

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I can't tell the difference between an expiring 32 yr old and a 27yr old with 3 years of term.....

Or the depth of youth on the left vs right side.....

So I ask this question:  'why not Gud instead of Edler'.

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