All this talk about Alex Edler and Chris Tanev, What about Erik Gudbranson??

[Glug Datt]

4 hours ago, aGENT said:

Sorry for the delayed response.

 

I doubt TOR would be the only team pursuing him. Most teams would gladly add an EG for playoff hockey. They might be one of the few who arguably 'need' him (quality D depth in general) though.

 

Same thing happens for any player that wants to be NHL'er. With the speed the game is played at now, you simply can't chase hits. You do that and the puck is turned over to the free man you opened by being out of position, and it's in the back of your net faster than you can say 'sorry coach'.

 

By all means be physical when the opportunity is there to rub a guy out etc but the game is about puck possession and separating the puck from the opposition (usually as much or more with your stick these days) and getting it to an open team mate while staying in position in case they lose it... is BEATEN in to every player. 

 

 

oh yeah I agree, what I meant was that most teams don't need him enough to warrant the purchase price. 

[PhillipBlunt]

On ‎1‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 10:44 AM, Provost said:

“Snarl” is the excellent word for it.

 

I wasn’t a big Sbisa fan, but he had some snarl and you regularly heard his teammates and opposing players talk about how tough he was to play against.

Opposing players said he was tough to play against? Was that before or after he passed them the puck, or stood still while they skated by him?

[PhillipBlunt]

19 hours ago, iceman64 said:

Seriously? Whose physically bigger? Unless we get dougie Hamilton by some miracle then we need Guds for at least "some" pushback when things get nasty..

 

Hamilton is as soft as Charmin on a rabbit's ass.

[TheGuardian_]

On ‎1‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 1:26 AM, *Buzzsaw* said:

All these people who diss Gudbranson are forgetting what happened to Florida after the trade.

 

Prior to Guddy trade they were a contender and in the playoffs.

 

After the trade they reverted to a non-playoff team.

 

The people who should know in Florida were very unhappy with the trade.

 

No, Gudbranson is not an elite #1 D... but he is a solid #4 stay at home when paired with someone who can move the puck and skate.  And he is not being paid like a #1 D... he is being paid the going rate for a solid #4 Free Agent.

 

And he is one of the more feared opponents in the league when it comes to fisticuffs... but that does not mean he has to fight every game... that would be stupid.

 

But watch a Calgary game vs an opponent who doesn't have a tough guy like Guddy, and watch Tkachuk take his liberties... then watch him when he's playing Vancouver and Guddy is on the ice.  Suddenly its "Mr Polite" who skates to the bench without a peep instead of jabbing and poking goalies and D around the net.

 

 

 

Florida the year after the trade, using the same excuse a fans attribute to the Canucks.

Huberdeau - 51 games injured, Bjugstad - 28 games injured, Barkov - 21 games injured, Ekblad - 14 games injured, naming just the core players many other played less than 82 games.

 

The other similarity to other rebuilding clubs, almost exactly, they have a sudden playoff appearance followed up with two disappointing (but hopeful) seasons, it is almost like the playoff appearance is just for marketing, to renew fan hope that the team is close.

 

Apples, Oranges and Potatoes,  a Tanev as day keep the goals away, Edler, the hits and points can be sweet, Gudbranson, at the bottom of the hole doing the heavy work. Oddly Guddy may have the most TDL value as size matters in the playoffs, more than mere skill. 

[PhillipBlunt]

Be honest, Rush. This is just you self-promoting your Twitter account.

[Canuck Surfer]

15 hours ago, Rush17 said:

During one of the intermissions they talked about Edler and Tanev. They seem to think keeping Edler and Tanev would be wise. But rather look to change up other parts of the D. 

 

Gudbranson's name was mentioned in the intermission with Edler/Tanev. 

 

Mission accomplished lol. Let's talk about it. Is Guddy a long term fit? If he stays who do we move?

You need a succession plan.

 

Gudbrandson has 3 years term. It is not a bad situation. We're better than 3 years ago.

 

See Matt Bartkowski & Yannik Weber, routinely with one in our top 4 behind Tanev on the right side of our D. Bartkowski playing on his off side, and not very well, at that. Then the following year Phillip Larsen.  And the point is Gudbrandson is a whole lot better than money puck options. Which are / were not high % options, particularly on D. We have tried running with a dismantled D, it was disastrous. So a succession plan is necessary before we move a RHD. 

 

What is on your succession plan @Rush17 ? Woo is 2 years away at best. Trading Gudbrandson, or Tanev for that matter, is pushing  Biega into your core line up. You say Mission accomplished!  Oh but we're rebuilding, get assets and worry about it later. Horse cookies! This was not your best discussion.   

 

At least at LHD a case could be made to trade Edler. But it would cut the legs out of this season. Juolevi, maybe Brisbois, and notably Hughes are on the horizon. We could (?) have Tryamkin back at the end of NEXT season. A case! In Sutters case, hockey Gaud is close. When he is handling match ups, scoring at a 35 point clip? Probably next year we will have the depth to move a pivot. On the other hand, trading Nilsson was fine, because Demko was ready. You have to develop your prosects to the point they are ready before you start trading your core.  

 

Trading Erik is akin to letting your rebuild car, which you are starting to get running, go intentionally with a flat tire. 

[PhillipBlunt]

1 minute ago, Canuck Surfer said:

You need a succession plan.

 

Gudbrandson has 3 years term. It is not a bad situation. We're better than 3 years ago.

 

See Matt Bartkowski & Yannik Weber, routinely with one in our top 4 behind Tanev on the right side of our D. Bartkowski playing on his off side, and not very well, at that. Then the following year Phillip Larsen.  And the point is Gudbrandson is a whole lot better than money puck options. Which are / were not high % options, particularly on D. We have tried running with a dismantled D, it was disastrous. So a succession plan is necessary before we move a RHD. 

 

What is on your succession plan @Rush17 ? Woo is 2 years away at best. Trading Gudbrandson, or Tanev for that matter, is pushing  Biega into your core line up. You say Mission accomplished!  Oh but we're rebuilding, get assets and worry about it later. Horse cookies! This was not your best discussion.   

 

At least at LHD a case could be made to trade Edler. But it would cut the legs out of this season. Juolevi, maybe Brisbois, and notably Hughes are on the horizon. We could (?) have Tryamkin back at the end of NEXT season. A case! In Sutters case, hockey Gaud is close. When he is handling match ups, scoring at a 35 point clip? Probably next year we will have the depth to move a pivot. On the other hand, trading Nilsson was fine, because Demko was ready. You have to develop your prosects to the point they are ready before you start trading your core.  

 

Trading Erik is akin to letting your rebuild car, which you are starting to get running, go intentionally with a flat tire. 

I remember when Weber and Bartkowski were a pairing and they tried stopping an LA or Anaheim forecheck. They were pulverized by Lucic, Koptiar, and Brown, I think it was.

 

Gudbranson is struggling right now, no question. However, some of the onus has to be placed on Ben Hutton's shoulders too. Takes two to make a pairing. Green's latest comments sound as if he's looking at splitting them up. Personally, I'd like to see Guddy given some time with Edler, as they formed a very solid and dynamic pairing that were also very....let's say unfriendly to the opposition.

[Canuck Surfer]

4 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

You need a succession plan.

A couple of years ago; I, like many on CDC were begging for upgrades on D. Individually I liked the Sutter trade. But he cleaned cupboards on D. Pressed on salary which was tight and required for Sutter. So moved Bieksa and Garrison. Got futures. We weren't rebuilding. Were we?

 

One could argue Garrison and Bieksa were not great? Sbisa neither was bad, nor did he make Benning look good for that portion of the trade. But he was up against a brick wall, so I gave that summer a pass considering what Benning had to deal with. A grain of salt I said, as long as he improved the D next...    

 

A year later Benning did made his first significant strides on D. He drafted Juolevi, traded for Gudbrandson, and signed Stecher. All in short order...

 

CDC hailed Benning a genius. Those same posters are here claiming our D now sulks.  WTF, tear it apart! 

 

The reality is it was just a stabilising foundation. I also, at that time, said it was an improvement. I did applaud the moves and breathed a sigh of relief. But argued it did not resolve our need for top end talent. Or complete the job! I did admit Juolevi might develop into that top end talent? And I was enthusiastic it was possible. I also argued you needed multiple irons in the fire. Benning has continued, now having drafted Hughes, an even more likely candidate to push the pace rushing the puck up ice. A dynamic player? But also more stabilising bodies in Brisbois & Jet Woo. I remain happy with Benning because he is adding irons.

 

Now we are just getting close to enough bodies in the developmental pool. RHD being, and it always is, the area that has the least options.

 

Its now a game of ensuring guys develop. Get to the point of pressing for jobs.

 

And continue drafting! 

[TheGuardian_]

11 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

You need a succession plan.

Think beyond just drafting an developing players, think trade and signing GOOD FA's.

 

Succession plan - Trade Edler and/or Tanev, together and get a mint, separately for 1rst picks

 

Just about all fans that have a idea of hockey can see that presently the only plan is to do nothing.

 

Sign Gardineir AND Trouba each to 7+ mil contracts for 6 years, re-sign Edler to 2 years plus and option at 3 mil, trade for a young stud dman, resign Tanev if possible @ same with term.

 

Trade or keep the rest for depth, Hutton and DMZ probably have to go.

 

top 4 d - around 18 mil, Trouba 7.5, Gardineir 7.5 mil, Edler 3.5 mil, Hughes 1 mil, other signings for large bottom 3 players, Guddy is already there,

 

Okay succession plan for D done, just need at least two more top 7 draft picks and then Cup bound is 3 years.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Think beyond just drafting an developing players, think trade and signing GOOD FA's.

 

Succession plan - Trade Edler and/or Tanev, together and get a mint, separately for 1rst picks

 

Just about all fans that have a idea of hockey can see that presently the only plan is to do nothing.

 

Sign Gardineir AND Trouba each to 7+ mil contracts for 6 years, re-sign Edler to 2 years plus and option at 3 mil, trade for a young stud dman, resign Tanev if possible @ same with term.

 

Trade or keep the rest for depth, Hutton and DMZ probably have to go.

 

top 4 d - around 18 mil, Trouba 7.5, Gardineir 7.5 mil, Edler 3.5 mil, Hughes 1 mil, other signings for large bottom 3 players, Guddy is already there,

 

Okay succession plan for D done, just need at least two more top 7 draft picks and then Cup bound is 3 years.

You mean Jake Gardiner?  No thanks.  I like Trouba though.  I’d love to get Edler for 3.5, but I think he’s going to get 5.5.  

[TheGuardian_]

8 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

CDC hailed Benning a genius.

I did not, I claimed these were too slow and too small and not top 4 material. I was at best mixed about OJ signing first because the team needed Sedin replacements still and he appeared to be a one hit wonder, one season in junior and then a high draft. Certainly I have not been a cheerleader for him since half way through his second season in junior and now am sure he is a bust at #5 AND it is not his fault but he looks to be destined as a bottom pairing defence.

17 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

I also argued you needed multiple irons in the fire. Benning has continued, now having drafted Hughes, an even more likely candidate to push the pace rushing the puck up ice. A dynamic player? But also more stabilising bodies in Brisbois & Jet Woo. I remain happy with Benning because he is adding irons

Not arguing just noticing that in general the past 4 years have gone by and there are no draft picks graduating after two years in the AHL to the big club. This is Benning 5th year right? Utica is the Canuck's development team isn't it? And the same prospects are still the great hope. Tired of watching hope play, she is invisible during a game but very expensive. 

I just hope he adds two more top 7 picks.

[Canuck Surfer]

55 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Not arguing just noticing that in general the past 4 years have gone by and there are no draft picks graduating after two years in the AHL to the big club.

I get your point.

 

You are still picking and choosing how you want to present that?

 

Virtanen played one full season in the AHL.

 

Demko played two full years, most as starter plus part of this year in Utica. He's just arrived?

 

Virtanen, Forsling, Demko & McCann are all in the NHL right now. Tryamkin would be. From one draft year, five of them. Gaudette and Boeser from the next. Brisbois a possibility. Jasek a longshot, now I am picking?  Juolevi will be an NHL player, barring more injury. Lockwood better than a long shot. Too early to tell, Pettersson aside, a roaring success in his own right though, on players like Gadgy, Lind, Brisbois, Palmu, DiPietro, Rathbone, Hughes. We were however voted as having top 2 or top 3 prospect pools in the NHL, depending on who was judging, this past summer.

 

We graduated Baertschi from a play off run in Utica. And he was acquired from the trade return of one of our prospects 3 years deep in the AHL

 

Boeser had two years development in our watch before coming to the NHL. Pettersson one. Gaudette 3 years, and some back and forth with Utica now.That we utilise good options outside the AHL should not penalise the development program?

 

We acquired Motte (1 & 1/2 years) and Leivo (most of 4 years) who had substantial time in the AHL 14 of our current 23 man roster are 25 and under in age.

 

Somehow 2/3rds of our roster are young players. I find it hard to argue we don't have an eye for development.

[Canuck Surfer]

1 hour ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Utica is the Canuck's development team isn't it?

Here is the best post I have ever seen, outlining exactly where the development of both our players in Utica are? And Utica itself under Cull & Johnson;

 

 One of the best reads on CDC.  Covers all these prospects, plus guys like McEwen, Boucher, McEneny, etc. From the Plmu thread.

 

[TheGuardian_]

41 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

I get your point.

 

You are still picking and choosing how you want to present that?

 

Virtanen played one full season in the AHL.

 

Demko played two full years, most as starter plus part of this year in Utica. He's just arrived?

 

Virtanen, Forsling, Demko & McCann are all in the NHL right now. Tryamkin would be. From one draft year, five of them. Gaudette and Boeser from the next. Brisbois a possibility. Jasek a longshot, now I am picking?  Juolevi will be an NHL player, barring more injury. Lockwood better than a long shot. Too early to tell, Pettersson aside, a roaring success in his own right though, on players like Gadgy, Lind, Brisbois, Palmu, DiPietro, Rathbone, Hughes. We were however voted as having top 2 or top 3 prospect pools in the NHL, depending on who was judging, this past summer.

 

We graduated Baertschi from a play off run in Utica. And he was acquired from the trade return of one of our prospects 3 years deep in the AHL

 

Boeser had two years development in our watch before coming to the NHL. Pettersson one. Gaudette 3 years, and some back and forth with Utica now.That we utilise good options outside the AHL should not penalise the development program?

 

We acquired Motte (1 & 1/2 years) and Leivo (most of 4 years) who had substantial time in the AHL 14 of our current 23 man roster are 25 and under in age.

 

Somehow 2/3rds of our roster are young players. I find it hard to argue we don't have an eye for development.

Problem is the team is still bottom third with an outstanding player like Pettersson, the young guys don't seem to be difference makers and for the most part that is all there is the older guys are all defensive specialists and now that the system is tightening up, not using the rover as much, the team isn't getting many shots on net, good shots, it is not uncommon for 8 shots from outside the blueline. Even opposing players and goalies have commented on the shots not being that difficult.

 

Still not arguing just a difference of opinion, I don't think half these guys will be here when the team hits round 2. I just don't think this is even possibly a playoff team and the standings as noted the other night on the tube, were surprising in the number of team failing this year.

 

I guess on reasonable question could be do you think this team can win a playoff round? Against say Nashville or Winnipeg?

[Canuck Surfer]

 

7 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Problem is the team is still bottom third with an outstanding player like Pettersson, the young guys don't seem to be difference makers and for the most part that is all there is the older guys are all defensive specialists and now that the system is tightening up, not using the rover as much, the team isn't getting many shots on net, good shots, it is not uncommon for 8 shots from outside the blueline. Even opposing players and goalies have commented on the shots not being that difficult.

Barring have a UFA signing which turns out better than Eriksson? Unfortunately we have to wait on the development curve.

 

Where we are at now is normal. We have three young ''difference makers'' on our team at the moment. Boeser, Horvat & Pettersson. Most ''expert'' sources, or coaching concepts spoke of  by guys like Scotty Bowman site a 7 man core. We have some candidates. But its 2 to 4 more years for the other 4 to find their place. 

 

Up front;

A dynamic 1C > check Petey

A scoring wing > check Boeser

A dangerous power forward who is a physical beast > jury is out, but can't call Jake this ATM

A hard as nails match up & PK centre > Maybe Bo.  He does enough other good stuff to call a check. And we have solid vet support here ATM Sutter & Beagle.

 

A dynamic goalie > hopefully Demko, but not there yet!

 

A dangerous PMD > hopefully Hughes, but not there yet

A solid 2 way D > Hopefully Juolevi but not there yet.

A bone crunching crease cleaer D > I like Gudbrandson more than you. But even I admit not ever to be the impact guy of Weber, Chara...

 

Then team speed, size & depth.  This is lining up okay. Gaudette, Jake, if he's not core easily qualifies, Baer, hopefully DiPietro, Dahlen, Lind, etc. All except size and depth at RHD. Some of our wild cards; Motte Utunen, Madden, Manukyan, Goldobin, Lockwood, Palmu, Rathbone will make it. They add speed! But some will not make it? In vets I like Beagle, Edler, Sutter, Roussel, Tanev. But who of those 5 will be here in 3 years? And then draft some more candidates to fill where the above guys don't cut weight. Some won't.

 

In the end, at the poor end of a contender to make play off's is still better than where everyone expected us to be right now.

[CanadianRugby]

On ‎1‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 5:04 PM, Rush17 said:

 

 

 

Can't trade Gudbranson because we'd get less for him than we gave up.  It would look terrible. 

 

 

On ‎1‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 1:26 AM, *Buzzsaw* said:

No, Gudbranson is not an elite #1 D... but he is a solid #4 stay at home when paired with someone who can move the puck and skate. 

What about him other than his salary is solid #4 D man?   Doesn't score.  Too slow in today's NHL to be good defensively.  Advanced stats show him to be one of if not the worst defensemen in the NHL.  

 

 

On ‎1‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 1:26 AM, *Buzzsaw* said:

But watch a Calgary game vs an opponent who doesn't have a tough guy like Guddy, and watch Tkachuk take his liberties... then watch him when he's playing Vancouver and Guddy is on the ice.  Suddenly its "Mr Polite" who skates to the bench without a peep instead of jabbing and poking goalies and D around the net.

I don't know what fantasy world you live in.  

Member this?  Gudbranson, Sbisa & Tryamkin didn't stop it.  How about when Pettersson got hurt.  NOBODY is scared to run our players because of Gudbranson.

 

[apollo]

I wonder what value u can get... Could he miraculously fetch a 1st? 

 

Guddy + 4th for 1st? 

[CanadianRugby]

10 minutes ago, apollo said:

I wonder what value u can get... Could he miraculously fetch a 1st? 

 

Guddy + 4th for 1st? 

Doubt Benning wants to trade him, doubt he gets a 1st tough maybe... crazy prices are paid at the trade deadline especially for D.  However, it would be for a late 1st round pick.  We traded a recent late 1st round pick, a 2nd rounder and I think a 4th rounder to get him.  So while I'd love us to get a 1st, you're still down a 2nd round pick in Gudbranson trades if we get a 1st & 4th.  

Maybe if we resign Edler and Tryamkin comes back. 

[apollo]

18 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said:

Doubt Benning wants to trade him, doubt he gets a 1st tough maybe... crazy prices are paid at the trade deadline especially for D.  However, it would be for a late 1st round pick.  We traded a recent late 1st round pick, a 2nd rounder and I think a 4th rounder to get him.  So while I'd love us to get a 1st, you're still down a 2nd round pick in Gudbranson trades if we get a 1st & 4th.  

Maybe if we resign Edler and Tryamkin comes back. 

 

58 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said:

Can't trade Gudbranson because we'd get less for him than we gave up.  It would look terrible. 

 

 

What about him other than his salary is solid #4 D man?   Doesn't score.  Too slow in today's NHL to be good defensively.  Advanced stats show him to be one of if not the worst defensemen in the NHL.  

 

 

I don't know what fantasy world you live in.  

Member this?  Gudbranson, Sbisa & Tryamkin didn't stop it.  How about when Pettersson got hurt.  NOBODY is scared to run our players because of Gudbranson.

 

I believe jannik Hansen dropped the gloves immediately and Kadri went into the featle position. 

 

I hope Gudbranson answers the bell on Sunday. 

[CanadianRugby]

47 minutes ago, apollo said:

 

I believe jannik Hansen dropped the gloves immediately and Kadri went into the featle position. 

 

I hope Gudbranson answers the bell on Sunday. 

Yeah the Honey Badger sure did!  My point was that Gudbranson & company didn't/don't prevent those hits from happening.  I would like to have more of those guys to respond to hits like this, because hits like this are inevitable.