Rush17

All this talk about Alex Edler and Chris Tanev, What about Erik Gudbranson??

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Guddy gets exposed when he goes up against elite competition. He is simply unable to keep up with some of these speedsters as they marginalize his physicality due to their superior edges. Basically any team which has multiple elite skaters in their top 6 like Tampa, Winnipeg, Toronto, Pittsburgh... Which is why if we want to take the next step we need to find a way to upgrade the right side of the defense. I think when we are playing Arizona you can get away with Guddy in the top 4 but ideally you want him playing on that bottom pairing. I hope the consequence of overpaying him a little now will mean that he will give this team a bit of a discount when we start contending.

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7 hours ago, Alflives said:

Guddy plays best, when paired with a top quality puck mover, especially one who is fleet of foot.  Guddy with Quinn Hughes next season is going be fabulous.  Makes zero sense to trade Guddy now, just when we have the ideal partner for him on the way.  

 

It also protects Quinn having them together. 

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7 hours ago, Alflives said:

Guddy plays best, when paired with a top quality puck mover, especially one who is fleet of foot.  Guddy with Quinn Hughes next season is going be fabulous.  Makes zero sense to trade Guddy now, just when we have the ideal partner for him on the way.  

 

During his “best years” in Florida, he was playing with Mitchell and Olsen, not exactly players who is considered puck-movers.

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6 hours ago, Jetliner said:

Guddy has no value. We prob get a 5th round pick for him. We are stuck with him for the contract, unfortunately

Guddy has lots of value to this team...Guddy is playing the way he did in Florida..We need a D man that adds toughness and very good leadership skill.... Guddy is playing very well...

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If moving Gudbranson makes room for signing a guy like Ferkland or even Tanev Im all for it.  Im fine with Gudbranson on the team but even Biega plays far more physical than he does.

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, MikeyBoy44 said:

I'm not disagreeing that we should trade Gudbranson at all. All I'm saying is aren't getting anywhere near what we paid for him or what the people here think we can get for him.

I'm not so sure, trade deadlines can be weird. Also, McCann a 2nd and a 5th actually isn't too high in hindsight. I think Jim did a nice job overselling McCann tbh. 

 

for the record - I'd prefer we keep Guddy. 

 

Edited by Jimmy McGill
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The addition of Quinn Hughes's stick handling and elite skating abilities will be welcome to be sure. And he may well prosper paired up with EG.  That being said..............

I suspect QH will not be elite right away. Leave that to the EP40's and McJesus's of the world. I still believe we need a Sami Salo type without the injury woes. 

Who in the present and immediate future can be that guy?!?!?!?!??!?

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Posted (edited)

Why would we trade Guddy right now?  We acquired him for McCann (not exactly lighting it up right now) a second and a fifth. I doubt we get much more than a second...maybe we could pick up an extra sixth. We lose the only intimidating man on the roster. He is a decent NHL caliber dman of which we are sorely lacking. Only trade for an upgrade if one is offered or an overpayment of picks and youth. He is likely a placeholder and I hope he becomes expendable but who fills that spot now?  We already have a rotating AHL third pairing, I’d rather keep him for a while and hope he picks up a few tricks from Quinn and actually from Woo. Look what EP has done to the confidence of our forwards. Woo is a workhorse and a hitting machine. Erik might just have to pick up his game a little. 

Edited by Amebushi
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29 minutes ago, Amebushi said:

Why would we trade Guddy right now?  We acquired him for McCann (not exactly lighting it up right now) a second and a fifth. I doubt we get much more than a second...maybe we could pick up an extra sixth. We lose the only intimidating man on the roster. He is a decent NHL caliber dman of which we are sorely lacking. Only trade for an upgrade if one is offered or an overpayment of picks and youth. He is likely a placeholder and I hope he becomes expendable but who fills that spot now?  We already have a rotating AHL third pairing

Basically this. Our problem isn't the 'middle' of the D core, our problem is a lack of top end talent on the D core pushing middling guys like Hutton, Stecher or Gudbranson etc to 3rd pair/fill-in 2nd pair roles where they'd arguably be 'too good' for an 'average' team's 3rd pair (aka: a playoff team/eventual contender).

 

This should be far less surprising to people than it is, given that we're a rebuilding team, but I digress...

 

We have a solid #2 in Edler and a 2B/3A in Tanev as our top pair. That's not good enough to be considered 'average' let alone a playoff team/contender (which again, should surprise literally no one, yet...).

 

You could have Edler on a 1st pair with preferably a #1D (or another #2 D should we lack the #1 option) and Tanev on a 2nd pair and suddenly the D looks MILES better as it pushes those middle guys down the line up and gets the AHL'ers currently on the third pair in the press box or a AHL where they belong.

 

Adding Hughes will help but perhaps not as immediately as many people hope/assume. I'm sure he'll see loads of PP time but he'll likely start the season playing closer to 3rd pair minutes, o-zone starts etc 5v5.

 

It's why I'm not opposed to the Canucks targeting the bigger D fish this free agency. Karlsson (a #1D) or Myers (another 2B/3A) would add top end talent to our D core and push guys down making us FAR better in one step. (That is of course if Pettersson et al are enough to start attracting these guys, this soon). Then you add in Hughes, and eventually Juolevi, Woo etc and then hopefully have a couple guys like Brisebois and Rathbone etc push the roster from below and you end up with a deep, high quality D core one hopes.

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I don't know if Guddy intimidates anyone anymore. 

Let's look at how well he sticks up for his teammates. 

Somehow he always seems to miss our players taking cheap shots from the other team, that is unless they are small Tampa forwards being held by the refs. 

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, DS4quality said:

I don't know if Guddy intimidates anyone anymore. 

Let's look at how well he sticks up for his teammates. 

Somehow he always seems to miss our players taking cheap shots from the other team, that is unless they are small Tampa forwards being held by the refs. 

Definitely agree, he seems to not want to play that role unless he has to.

 

Right when he got here I had a bad feeling when he started talking about how he had more to offer offensively.  (Really dude... that is not why you were traded for...)

 

We we need a guy with a bad attitude every night, not someone who will very occasionally fight people.  Mitchell was great because he would always be in peoples faces and knock them on their butts whenever they went near the blue paint, and he would continue after the whistle with things like cross checks and face washes... just generally making their lives miserable anytime they came into our zone.  No one is worried about their safety making fancy plays in front of our net with any of our current D.  Del Zotto is probably the toughest to play against night in and night out (maybe even including the nights he is in the press box :) )

 

We we have a long history of getting “tough guys” who are a lot more talk than action.  I remember being excited about Hordichuk and the guy couldn’t have been more disinterested on most nights.

 

(cue the people posting random clips of the few times Gudbranson has played to his strengths... while ignoring the huge stretches of play where he was on cruise control).

Edited by Provost
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2 minutes ago, Provost said:

Definitely agree, he seems to not want to play that role unless he has to.

 

Right when he got here I had a bad feeling when he started talking about how he had more to offer offensively.  (Really dude... that is not why you were traded for...)

 

We we need a guy with a bad attitude every night, not someone who will very occasionally fight people.  Mitchell was great because he would always be in peoples faces and knock them on their butts whenever they went near the blue paint, and he would continue after the whistle with things like cross checks and face washes... just generally making their lives miserable anytime they came into our zone.  No one is worried about their safety making fancy plays in front of our net with any of our current D.  Del Zotto is probably the toughest to play against night in and night out (maybe even including the nights he is in the press box :) )

 

We we have a long history of getting “tough guys” who are a lot more talk than action.  I remember being excited about Hordichuk and the guy couldn’t have been more disinterested on most nights.

 

(cue the people posting random clips of the few times Gudbranson has played to his strengths... while ignoring the huge stretches of play where he was on cruise control).

To be fair though he has been injured a lot since coming to Vancouver, and defense are more valuable than forwards for the pk. That being said however, he does not have any "Snarl" in his game,and  his big hits much like Virtanen are few and far between. I wish he had a bit more edge in his game, like when he cranke Dube in the first game this season.

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5 minutes ago, Provost said:

Definitely agree, he seems to not want to play that role unless he has to.

 

Right when he got here I had a bad feeling when he started talking about how he had more to offer offensively.  (Really dude... that is not why you were traded for...)

 

We we need a guy with a bad attitude every night, not someone who will very occasionally fight people.  Mitchell was great because he would always be in peoples faces and knock them on their butts whenever they went near the blue paint, and he would continue after the whistle with things like cross checks and face washes... just generally making their lives miserable anytime they came into our zone.  No one is worried about their safety making fancy plays in front of our net with any of our current D.  Del Zotto is probably the toughest to play against night in and night out (maybe even including the nights he is in the press box :) )

 

We we have a long history of getting “tough guys” who are a lot more talk than action.  I remember being excited about Hordichuk and the guy couldn’t have been more disinterested on most nights.

 

(cue the people posting random clips of the few times Gudbranson has played to his strengths... while ignoring the huge stretches of play where he was on cruise control).

I agree with everything in this comment. Guddy was brought in to be a hard nosed crease clearing dman that scares the crap out of the opposition. He has had a couple scraps (literally just a couple) and overall disappointed inthis area. I still contend that what his current value on the open market won’t bring back an upgrade on his position though.  As soon as someone offers us a good trade option for EG+ that improves the d or just plays tougher at the same level I’ll be all for it. He isn’t the player I was hoping to get when we traded for him but I suspsect the opposing players are well aware when he is on the ice. Not the nuclear deterrent we all want but more than a couple late picks are going to bring. Praying his stock increases with better health and better partners, then make a decision from a position of strength. 

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38 minutes ago, DS4quality said:

I don't know if Guddy intimidates anyone anymore. 

Let's look at how well he sticks up for his teammates. 

Somehow he always seems to miss our players taking cheap shots from the other team, that is unless they are small Tampa forwards being held by the refs. 

Nobody wants to fight him.   I agree he’s not doing enough to use that as an advantage, he’s a big boy and his reach is his biggest asset when the gloves do drop, he usually gets one it that packs a wallop.  I wish he would hit more, but I’m just happy he’s not injured and that we have him, hard pass on trading him, he hasn’t peaked yet and when he does he will be a fan favourite.

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6 minutes ago, DS4quality said:

To be fair though he has been injured a lot since coming to Vancouver, and defense are more valuable than forwards for the pk. That being said however, he does not have any "Snarl" in his game,and  his big hits much like Virtanen are few and far between. I wish he had a bit more edge in his game, like when he cranke Dube in the first game this season.

“Snarl” is the excellent word for it.

 

I wasn’t a big Sbisa fan, but he had some snarl and you regularly heard his teammates and opposing players talk about how tough he was to play against.

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32 minutes ago, DS4quality said:

To be fair though he has been injured a lot since coming to Vancouver, and defense are more valuable than forwards for the pk. That being said however, he does not have any "Snarl" in his game,and  his big hits much like Virtanen are few and far between. I wish he had a bit more edge in his game, like when he cranke Dube in the first game this season.

The way the game's played these days, besides fighting being down, you also can't go chasing hits anymore. He'd be in Green's dog house if he played the way you guys are describing. 

 

Never mind how short handed with injury the team has been the last couple years (or how short of talent in general, given were in a rebuild).

 

As our depth and talent improves around him, I have little doubt Green will let him lose a bit more and it won't be required for him to play so 'safe'.

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1 hour ago, aGENT said:

Basically this. Our problem isn't the 'middle' of the D core, our problem is a lack of top end talent on the D core pushing middling guys like Hutton, Stecher or Gudbranson etc to 3rd pair/fill-in 2nd pair roles where they'd arguably be 'too good' for an 'average' team's 3rd pair (aka: a playoff team/eventual contender).

 

This should be far less surprising to people than it is, given that we're a rebuilding team, but I digress...

 

We have a solid #2 in Edler and a 2B/3A in Tanev as our top pair. That's not good enough to be considered 'average' let alone a playoff team/contender (which again, should surprise literally no one, yet...).

 

You could have Edler on a 1st pair with preferably a #1D (or another #2 D should we lack the #1 option) and Tanev on a 2nd pair and suddenly the D looks MILES better as it pushes those middle guys down the line up and gets the AHL'ers currently on the third pair in the press box or a AHL where they belong.

 

Adding Hughes will help but perhaps not as immediately as many people hope/assume. I'm sure he'll see loads of PP time but he'll likely start the season playing closer to 3rd pair minutes, o-zone starts etc 5v5.

 

It's why I'm not opposed to the Canucks targeting the bigger D fish this free agency. Karlsson (a #1D) or Myers (another 2B/3A) would add top end talent to our D core and push guys down making us FAR better in one step. (That is of course if Pettersson et al are enough to start attracting these guys, this soon). Then you add in Hughes, and eventually Juolevi, Woo etc and then hopefully have a couple guys like Brisebois and Rathbone etc push the roster from below and you end up with a deep, high quality D core one hopes.

So many good points! Nice job. 

IMHO the Canucks are entering a whole new attractiveness for potential UFA signings. EP40 and BB will attract players who want to play with elite talent. If Hughes comes in with a bang it accelerates the whole process.  The new economics of young players coming off their ELC's and getting major bucks makes UFA talent available. 

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Posted (edited)

@Rush17, can you please stop trying to push your agenda of becoming the newest social media canucks insider without possessing insider info?

 

Thank you in advance.

 

Signed,

 

CDC

Edited by tas
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biggest question I have is where does Eric slot in realistically on a contender...? 4th? 5th?

 

if he's not a foundational player, and not a very good rental, he's just bolstering someone's blue line for a deep run. this dictates what we get in return, and whether it's worth exploring. 

 

I'll admit that I had grander dreams when we picked him up, & I'm all for upgrades, but we're still pretty thin on d, and we will need him until that gets solved

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