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31 Thoughts: The Podcast.... on the Canucks

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4 hours ago, aGENT said:

Agree that at the very least the Canucks should kick tires on Edler AND another D. We need top end D depth, badly.

 

But if we're spending +/- $7m on Myers, why not go all the way and target the actual #1D in Karlsson at +/- $9m? IMO Myers is the consolation prize there.

 

Also, as much as I love Hughes (and would be thrilled to see him do so) I doubt he's playing 1st pair next year, almost certainly not 5v5.

 

Edler, Karlsson

Hutton/Hughes, Tanev

Hughes/Hutton, Gudbranson

 

Pouliot/other, Stecher

 

Or:

 

Edler, Tanev

Hughes/Hutton, Myers

Hutton/Hughes, Gudbranson

 

Pouliot/other, Stecher

Karlsson is a whole different level of giddyup! :wub:  

 

I haven't allowed myself to dream of such things, Allthough I don't imagine paying him $13 mill, $12 mill, more likely figures, would leave room for Edler?

 

Poughty got $11 mill.  Karlsson > Doughty.

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5 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

Karlsson is a whole different level of giddyup! :wub:  

 

I haven't allowed myself to dream of such things, Allthough I don't imagine paying him $13 mill, $12 mill, more likely figures, would leave room for Edler?

 

Poughty got $11 mill.  Karlsson > Doughty.

Something like $12, $12, $11, $8, $8, $6, $6 with the vast majority upfront in signing bonus (vs salary) especially the potential lockout year so he gets paid regardless.

 

AAV - $9M

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5 hours ago, aGENT said:

Something like $12, $12, $11, $8, $8, $6, $6 with the vast majority upfront in signing bonus (vs salary) especially the potential lockout year so he gets paid regardless.

 

AAV - $9M

He gets $10+ / year on the open market most likely.  Probably the highest paid D ever.  I think he'll stay in SJ though, or go back east as his wife is from Ottawa.  

 

He's spent years on crap Ottawa teams, he won't come to another rebuilding franchise. Only way Canucks get him is if we offer by far the best contract.  $9/year won't be close to that. 

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5 hours ago, CanadianRugby said:

He gets $10+ / year on the open market most likely.  Probably the highest paid D ever.  I think he'll stay in SJ though, or go back east as his wife is from Ottawa.  

 

He's spent years on crap Ottawa teams, he won't come to another rebuilding franchise. Only way Canucks get him is if we offer by far the best contract.  $9/year won't be close to that. 

That averages out to more than $10m per over the first 5 of the 7 years with a LOT of money both front loaded and in signing bonuses again ensuring he gets more money to invest (interest/ROI) sooner and he still gets paid even if there's a lockout.

 

That's better than a flat $10m per year of no signing bonuses. Contract structure matters. 

 

I have no idea if he'll come to the Canucks or not as I don't presume to read minds like you do. I'd tend to agree it's probably less likely than it is more but that doesn't mean it's impossible. And IMO we'd be foolish not to kick those tires. I never claimed any guarantee he was coming.

 

And especially Pettersson but also Horvat, Boeser, Hughes etc are going to start pulling UFA's sooner than later.

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11 hours ago, aGENT said:

Something like $12, $12, $11, $8, $8, $6, $6 with the vast majority upfront in signing bonus (vs salary) especially the potential lockout year so he gets paid regardless.

 

AAV - $9M

 

2 minutes ago, aGENT said:

That averages out to more than $10m per over the first 5 of the 7 years with a LOT of money both front loaded and in signing bonuses again ensuring he gets more money to invest (interest/ROI) sooner and he still gets paid even if there's a lockout.

 

That's better than a flat $10m per year of no signing bonuses. Contract structure matters. 

 

I have no idea if he'll come to the Canucks or not as I don't presume to read minds like you do. I'd tend to agree it's probably less likely than it is more but that doesn't mean it's impossible. And IMO we'd be foolish not to kick those tires. I never claimed any guarantee he was coming.

 

And especially Pettersson but also Horvat, Boeser, Hughes etc are going to start pulling UFA's sooner than later.

That's still way too low.  Even if structure matters (and I agree it does) someone will offer a similar structure to what you have proposed but with an AAV of $11M+.

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8 minutes ago, Crimson said:

 

That's still way too low.  Even if structure matters (and I agree it does) someone will offer a similar structure to what you have proposed but with an AAV of $11M+.

That very well may be. Time will tell (though I have my doubts he gets an $11m AAV).

 

Much above the $9-10m range and my sphincter starts to pucker too much and I'd bow out personally. Perhaps Benning's o-ring is less sensitive than mine? :lol:

 

But then I'd also return to the Myers consolation prize at likely closer to $7m.

Edited by aGENT

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6 minutes ago, aGENT said:

That very well may be. Time will tell (though I have my doubts).

 

Much above the $9-10m range and my sphincter starts to pucker too much and I'd bow out personally. Perhaps Benning's o-ring is less sensitive than mine? :lol:

 

But then I'd also return to the Myers consolation prize at likely closer to $7m.

Agree totally ! I think the smozzle happening in TO re the cap problems once you have multiple 'big' contracts might actually be putting downward pressure on UFAs like Karlsson.

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1 hour ago, SingleThorn said:

Agree totally ! I think the smozzle happening in TO re the cap problems once you have multiple 'big' contracts might actually be putting downward pressure on UFAs like Karlsson.

How many teams legitimately have room to add a $10m+ hit plus still give raises to their ELC's etc?

 

 

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30 minutes ago, aGENT said:

How many teams legitimately have room to add a $10m+ hit plus still give raises to their ELC's etc?

 

 

I think that the big numbers only work on 'lesser term' contracts. 3/ 4 years tops ! UFAs traditionally seem to prefer the 7/ 8 year option. Chicago and Minnesota have spent way too much time working around these long term, big contracts. It will be interesting to watch how TML deals with their situation. It might even be a problem for us down the road !

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1 minute ago, SingleThorn said:

I think that the big numbers only work on 'lesser term' contracts. 3/ 4 years tops ! UFAs traditionally seem to prefer the 7/ 8 year option. Chicago and Minnesota have spent way too much time working around these long term, big contracts. It will be interesting to watch how TML deals with their situation. It might even be a problem for us down the road !

Can't paint with that wide of a brush. I doubt the Penguins are lamenting their long term signing of Crosby for example. But really, it's all part of the cycle of a franchise. You do your best to draft your way around the high contracts with guys you can bring in on ELC's to compliment them for as long as possible, but eventually it becomes unsustainable and guys start to slow down with age and....time to rebuild.

 

We'll eventually need to pay Pettersson and likely Hughes, Boeser's mercifully having just an 'ok' season so I think he likely gets a bridge for 2-3 years at a reasonable hit for now. 

 

IMO the marker for the Canucks will be the year Horvat's extension expires. The team will have hard choices to make at that point and even assuming he's captain, I'd not be shocked if he's dealt at that TDL (22/23).

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On January 12, 2019 at 9:32 AM, aGENT said:

...and he walks in the summer for zilch.

 

Great job pissing him off.

 

 

A common tactic suggested by those who honed their negotiating skills playing video games.

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On 1/12/2019 at 9:00 AM, Dombrova22 said:

I'd just flat out tell the guy, listen Alex we know you want to be here, and we want you here, but nows the time to help us out and get something in return. If you don't want to help us out, then we simply aren't going to resign you in the offseason. 

@Down by the River has the better plan.

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Canucks will be in a fight for the playoffs this year.  Sign Edler to an extension now.  4 years x 5 (likely 5.5) would be great for both player and team.  Edler gets more than that on the open market.  I'd rather have him than Myers for the next 4 years.  

Edited by Comeback_Kings

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Sign Edler with a 2 year deal, full NTC, so it expires when the Seattle draft happens, then re up him for 2 more years after expansion, giving the club more latitude in protecting assets.  Set the terms now and then Edler will know what to expect.  Give him 2 year deals until he retires always with the NTC.  Kinda like the twins.  He doesn't want to leave Vancouver, he is a valuable guy.  Give him the Sedin treatment.  

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On 1/13/2019 at 5:24 PM, Canuck Surfer said:

Karlsson is a whole different level of giddyup! :wub:  

 

I haven't allowed myself to dream of such things, Allthough I don't imagine paying him $13 mill, $12 mill, more likely figures, would leave room for Edler?

 

Poughty got $11 mill.  Karlsson > Doughty.

I don't see Karlsson getting less than Doughty.  That's a lot of cash to tie up when we have some cap concerns on the horizon.  Boeser and EP40 are going to get big deals.  EK also balked at being moved to any Canadian team out of Ottawa.  I dont see him changing his mind.  Worth a hard look at the right price.  

 

Myers would look like a giant next to Hughes.... 

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2 hours ago, Phat Fingers said:

EK also balked at being moved to any Canadian team out of Ottawa.

*Unsubstantiated gossip.

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7 hours ago, aGENT said:

*Unsubstantiated gossip.

Okay... I saw it reported but did not notice the refuting if this.  I respect your info on the matter more than anything I know.  Point taken.  

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If you need a character vet partner for QH, go sign or trade for one. 

 

This team better not tie itself to contract-year Edler for any longer than they have to.

 

 

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18 hours ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

If you need a character vet partner for QH, go sign or trade for one. 

 

This team better not tie itself to contract-year Edler for any longer than they have to.

 

Shopping for RHD on the free agent market is not the greatest idea - and going to the trade market = prepare to overpay signficantly.

 

Point of illustration would be:  why haven't the Leafs simply fixed their blueline by signing or trading for a couple guys to improve their right side?   Years go by and....nada....easier said.

 

Edler isn't really a candidate for a QH partner imo, in any event.

He'd (Edler) most likely draw a shutdown partner (or possibly Stecher) - a RHD -  and continue to be a hard-minutes workhorse.

 

I have no problem with re-signing Edler - he'd probably come at better value than shopping in the free agent market - and no one wants to be spending the kind of assets it takes to acquire RHD in the trade market (to complement QH).

 

If you want a 'solution' imo, look at dealing Tanev with a young RHD principal return......A big mean Eric Cernak would move the dial for me, and Tampa has another young RHD a lot of us have eyed for some time.  Take Coburn back as a contract concession/placeholder in that deal.

 

I think a retool move with Tanev might make the most sense under the circumstances - or simply retain both him and Edler and let them be your 'foundation' for your blueline for the next few years while the young guys emerge.  The assumption that you can do better - ie "go so or trade for one" - is not one I share. 

 

Edited by oldnews

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We are trending up. Trading Edler for a low 1st or early 2nd would be idiotic. People kill for these type of defensman. We need him desperately for stability, and to eat minutes. To the people saying sign him for 1-2 years at 4 million etc. Try living in reality. He’s going to get 5.5-6 million per year on a 3-4 year deal. We need him. 

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