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Yahoo Sports Article - Elias Pettersson on being NHL MVP

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1 hour ago, HerrDrFunk said:

If you look at how the Canucks play with Pettersson in the line-up versus without, he should definitely be in the Hart conversation. He won’t win it, but he should get some votes.

Things are sure looking up.  By comparison neither Bure or the Sedins got a whiff of Hart suggestions when they entered the league, even though Bure was also a revelation, nobody played the game like him before or since.

 

 Pettersson is just a rookie and played half a season...it’s incredible to think that we have a player that’s getting such praise and so early...everyone on the ice including the opposition should be ready to stand up for him, he’s a meal ticket that should be kept safe from rats and fourth liners looking to get their names in the paper.  Gretzky was out of bounds (quickest way to get demoted and buried was to take a run at him a few games into the NHL) but also had a team that was prepared to take a suspension if anyone dared take him out.

 

Pettersson is special, he’s also a unique talent that the league should support, fans will sell out in their buildings just to take a look at him the same way they did when PIT came to town and Crosby was just getting started (and to a degree Ovechkin too).  After he’s back I hope he’s back for good.  

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1 hour ago, oldnews said:

So would I, generally, but this writer manages to undermine himself by making this about "being in grade 3 at the outbreak of WW2".

 

That is just as ignorant as Don Cherry, assuming that his age somehow correlates with or essentially excuses his stupidity. 

 

Older people are not necessarily any less intelligent than anyone else - and in fact, having worked with a whole lot of seniors throughout my life, I can safely say that I would be greatly comforted if the present generations grow up to be anywhere near as intelligent as the vast majority of seniors are.

I'd definitely agree with you there. There is a strong argument to be made about why Cherry is an idiot without insulting one of the most prominent age groups in Canada. 

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4 hours ago, IBatch said:

Personally the code is in question to a certain extent, like it’s not being perceived well.  I get taking the high road which TG did with his comments, but to me it’s a lossed opportunity to also announce to the league that they take protecting their superstar (and players in general) seriously and if a line is crossed (again because it definitely was with Mathesson) there will be a response.  What’s the point in signing these vets if they don’t help the younger players play the game the right way, following the code and protecting EP.   Beagle has been the only one that really seems to give a rats ass out of the three so far.

I think the reason being is we're seeing a slow culture shift in the game. That "code" is an artifact of the game from a decade ago and longer. With players like Crosby Ovechkin, Malkin Mackinnon McDavid Draisaitl Stamkos Kucherov Laine Kane Toews Gudreau Pettersson and to a similar degree Horvat etc, we're seeing an emphasis placed on skill, and finesse. Physical contact is becoming the byproduct of playing in a contact sport as opposed to being the sole focus.

Coaches this year have been talking about playing "heavy" styled games in the regular season, that is playing with intensity all season like we see usually reserved only for the playoffs. We're seeing fewer players like Cooke Ruutu Burrows Lapierre or Holik. Even middle of the road players are focusing more on the speed and skill of the game, not competing with it but trying to not be left behind. I see this with Virtanen for example. He could very easily play a super heavy game, chirp guys, get under their skin because he has the physicality to back it up, but playing the game that way becomes a distraction. I have no doubt that Virtanen for example will find that crossover point where physicality, speed and skill all intersect and when he does he will truly break out.

Coming back to Pettersson, the focus should not be to perpetuate the artifacts of the past, but rather as a league get past the point where the middle of the road players like Matheson are relegated to the AHL or lower. People might not like it, and think that hockey should be old timey and full of nastiness (like Burke), which I'm for if it's a genuine emotional response to something that happens in a game but to just have truculence as a rule and for the sake of it is IMO counter productive and unnecessary. The way to achieve this is to keep focused on playing the right way. People were quick here to complain about his comments when Gudbranson said (paraphrasing) "Sure we could respond after every hit or incident but then we risk taking a penalty." As we saw in the Tampa game, when the other team blatantly crossed the line and the refs didn't do their job, the Canucks were more than capable of taking matters into their own hands.

The point is that we should not be expecting the team to do that every time, all the time. It's bush league and it's embarrassing. Stuff happens in hockey and you move past it, in the end every team is vying to be the best in the league so the focus night in and night out has to be on the game and trying to win it, especially with the level of parity in the league that we have between teams.

The Kotkaniemi-Pettersson was a fluke incident, it was precipitated by a cheap dig and ended up poorly for us. It could have just as easily ended up poorly for Kotkaniemi had he been the one to fall awkwardly, and because it was Pettersson we'd all be saying it was a fluke play and no big deal.

I played hockey growing up as I'm sure many people did, and did so during that era with goonery and mucking it up. I got into my fair share of scraps in Bantam and Midget and I'll tell you what, there was always still an emphasis on trying to win the game and play the game the right way. What Green is doing with the poise and leadership he's showing, it's working and the players are buying in. It may not be evident this season, but in 1-2 years when we've become a playoff threat again, everyone will be applauding Green, his coaching and this team when the lessons they are learning now are put into practice during the playoffs.

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1 hour ago, VanGnome said:

I think the reason being is we're seeing a slow culture shift in the game. That "code" is an artifact of the game from a decade ago and longer. With players like Crosby Ovechkin, Malkin Mackinnon McDavid Draisaitl Stamkos Kucherov Laine Kane Toews Gudreau Pettersson and to a similar degree Horvat etc, we're seeing an emphasis placed on skill, and finesse. Physical contact is becoming the byproduct of playing in a contact sport as opposed to being the sole focus.

Coaches this year have been talking about playing "heavy" styled games in the regular season, that is playing with intensity all season like we see usually reserved only for the playoffs. We're seeing fewer players like Cooke Ruutu Burrows Lapierre or Holik. Even middle of the road players are focusing more on the speed and skill of the game, not competing with it but trying to not be left behind. I see this with Virtanen for example. He could very easily play a super heavy game, chirp guys, get under their skin because he has the physicality to back it up, but playing the game that way becomes a distraction. I have no doubt that Virtanen for example will find that crossover point where physicality, speed and skill all intersect and when he does he will truly break out.

Coming back to Pettersson, the focus should not be to perpetuate the artifacts of the past, but rather as a league get past the point where the middle of the road players like Matheson are relegated to the AHL or lower. People might not like it, and think that hockey should be old timey and full of nastiness (like Burke), which I'm for if it's a genuine emotional response to something that happens in a game but to just have truculence as a rule and for the sake of it is IMO counter productive and unnecessary. The way to achieve this is to keep focused on playing the right way. People were quick here to complain about his comments when Gudbranson said (paraphrasing) "Sure we could respond after every hit or incident but then we risk taking a penalty." As we saw in the Tampa game, when the other team blatantly crossed the line and the refs didn't do their job, the Canucks were more than capable of taking matters into their own hands.

The point is that we should not be expecting the team to do that every time, all the time. It's bush league and it's embarrassing. Stuff happens in hockey and you move past it, in the end every team is vying to be the best in the league so the focus night in and night out has to be on the game and trying to win it, especially with the level of parity in the league that we have between teams.

The Kotkaniemi-Pettersson was a fluke incident, it was precipitated by a cheap dig and ended up poorly for us. It could have just as easily ended up poorly for Kotkaniemi had he been the one to fall awkwardly, and because it was Pettersson we'd all be saying it was a fluke play and no big deal.

I played hockey growing up as I'm sure many people did, and did so during that era with goonery and mucking it up. I got into my fair share of scraps in Bantam and Midget and I'll tell you what, there was always still an emphasis on trying to win the game and play the game the right way. What Green is doing with the poise and leadership he's showing, it's working and the players are buying in. It may not be evident this season, but in 1-2 years when we've become a playoff threat again, everyone will be applauding Green, his coaching and this team when the lessons they are learning now are put into practice during the playoffs.

Green sucks. Stats show that he has made no progress with the team. - 48 without EP. There’s an alien saving his ass this season. 

Edited by Nuke
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EP40 is having a great rookie year, and my very well be the most valuable player in the NHL to his team.  With that said, there are probably 10 -15 guys who will finish ahead of him in the voting, maybe more.  He will likely play 65 games this year, not enough to even be in the conversation.  2 years from now I can see him being in the running.

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3 hours ago, oldnews said:

People should slow down with this stuff.  Period.

 

And starting an article with plus/minus drivel doesn't qualify a player as an MVP.

 

Pettersson is the team's best player - but he's also a rookie getting 67% ozone starts (with a 50.9% corsi). 

That 5 on 5 opportunity comes from somewhere - namely players like Sutter, Beagle, Motte, Granlund, Horvat, Roussel etc who are all in the 30%-40%  ozone start range - so that guys like Pettersson can perform in conditions to be successful.  It's a team game - as are plus/minus team statistics that occur in a context - and of course those harder minutes guys are going to relatively eat the minuses.

 

The idea that a rookie - who has also suffered a couple injuries this year - is an MVP candidate = pretty premature.

A player like Kucherov has 72 pts....with 57% ozone starts...

 

Mark Giordano has 44 pts (ppg defenseman) - with a +31, plays 25 minutes a night, 51.3% ozone starts (56.1% corsi), 4.0 on ice goals for per 60, 2.1 against.....there's your MVP imo.

 

Horvat could get a little more respect as well - here's a player that has 36 pts, 38.6% ozone starts (has been forced into shutdown duty for large parts of the season in the absences of Sutter and Beagle), Horvat has 600 faceoff wins (433 more than the next Canuck), he's 52.6% in the faceoff circle (EP is 41.9%) and in those much harder minutes has a corsi of 47.3%.   It's a team game - and it's debatable who the actual MVP of the Canucks has been, despite the highlight reel gazers assumption that scoring alone - or plus/minus - makes a player that team's most valuable.  You take Horvat out of this lineup and it aint pretty either.

I'd plus this again if I could

 

Horvat could def get a bit more respect

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1 hour ago, VanGnome said:

I think the reason being is we're seeing a slow culture shift in the game. That "code" is an artifact of the game from a decade ago and longer. With players like Crosby Ovechkin, Malkin Mackinnon McDavid Draisaitl Stamkos Kucherov Laine Kane Toews Gudreau Pettersson and to a similar degree Horvat etc, we're seeing an emphasis placed on skill, and finesse. Physical contact is becoming the byproduct of playing in a contact sport as opposed to being the sole focus.

Coaches this year have been talking about playing "heavy" styled games in the regular season, that is playing with intensity all season like we see usually reserved only for the playoffs. We're seeing fewer players like Cooke Ruutu Burrows Lapierre or Holik. Even middle of the road players are focusing more on the speed and skill of the game, not competing with it but trying to not be left behind. I see this with Virtanen for example. He could very easily play a super heavy game, chirp guys, get under their skin because he has the physicality to back it up, but playing the game that way becomes a distraction. I have no doubt that Virtanen for example will find that crossover point where physicality, speed and skill all intersect and when he does he will truly break out.

Coming back to Pettersson, the focus should not be to perpetuate the artifacts of the past, but rather as a league get past the point where the middle of the road players like Matheson are relegated to the AHL or lower. People might not like it, and think that hockey should be old timey and full of nastiness (like Burke), which I'm for if it's a genuine emotional response to something that happens in a game but to just have truculence as a rule and for the sake of it is IMO counter productive and unnecessary. The way to achieve this is to keep focused on playing the right way. People were quick here to complain about his comments when Gudbranson said (paraphrasing) "Sure we could respond after every hit or incident but then we risk taking a penalty." As we saw in the Tampa game, when the other team blatantly crossed the line and the refs didn't do their job, the Canucks were more than capable of taking matters into their own hands.

The point is that we should not be expecting the team to do that every time, all the time. It's bush league and it's embarrassing. Stuff happens in hockey and you move past it, in the end every team is vying to be the best in the league so the focus night in and night out has to be on the game and trying to win it, especially with the level of parity in the league that we have between teams.

The Kotkaniemi-Pettersson was a fluke incident, it was precipitated by a cheap dig and ended up poorly for us. It could have just as easily ended up poorly for Kotkaniemi had he been the one to fall awkwardly, and because it was Pettersson we'd all be saying it was a fluke play and no big deal.

I played hockey growing up as I'm sure many people did, and did so during that era with goonery and mucking it up. I got into my fair share of scraps in Bantam and Midget and I'll tell you what, there was always still an emphasis on trying to win the game and play the game the right way. What Green is doing with the poise and leadership he's showing, it's working and the players are buying in. It may not be evident this season, but in 1-2 years when we've become a playoff threat again, everyone will be applauding Green, his coaching and this team when the lessons they are learning now are put into practice during the playoffs.

Wow.  So the code which had been around for a hundred years or so is now an artifact?  Man I must be old.   Hockey fights in Bantam and Midget with full shields and gloves on aren’t really the same thing, of course unless you were one of those guys that punched masks with bare hands.

 

Playing the right way includes standing up for your star players, AV and all the discipline in the world didn’t help us in 2011, and ANA won a cup with a throwback team too, it can happen.  Guess I just don’t think that nothing should happen but a logical discernment of events when a star goes down.  That’s going to help us come playoff time? Come on bro, where the spirit, the willingness to stand up for each other etc.  One less P.K. in nothing game in the middle of a rebuild is that important when so many other things need to get better still? 

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I often say that if McDavid were put in a time machine and sent back to the mid-’80s, he would score about 400 points in a season, but that’s only if some coked-up Patrick Division psycho didn’t two-hand him in the neck behind some 17-point game on a Tuesday night in February.

 

This is such a stupid statement for someone who wants to be taken seriously.  Did he even watch what hockey was like in that era?

The holding, hooking, slashing, grabbing as well as legal stick sweeps by d-men, cut down scoring.  I mean if Mcdavid gets angry and proven ineffective by someone like Bo Horvat.  How in the hell would he do against some player who wouldn't get called for all of the above; which were just plain hockey plays.

 

Some people need to go back and watch some 80's games and see how hard it was to get free to score.

Edited by danjr
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3 hours ago, IBatch said:

Wow.  So the code which had been around for a hundred years or so is now an artifact?  Man I must be old.   Hockey fights in Bantam and Midget with full shields and gloves on aren’t really the same thing, of course unless you were one of those guys that punched masks with bare hands.

 

Playing the right way includes standing up for your star players, AV and all the discipline in the world didn’t help us in 2011, and ANA won a cup with a throwback team too, it can happen.  Guess I just don’t think that nothing should happen but a logical discernment of events when a star goes down.  That’s going to help us come playoff time? Come on bro, where the spirit, the willingness to stand up for each other etc.  One less P.K. in nothing game in the middle of a rebuild is that important when so many other things need to get better still? 

Yes, the "code" is an artifact. It's a relic of a bygone era before the way the game is thought changed, and it has changed. Players like McDavid, Crosby et al are hacked, hooked, hit, tripped, slashed, high sticked etc whenever opposing teams take the opportunity to do so. Those who commit those infractions need to walk a fine line when doing so, otherwise they run the risk of incurring a penalty when caught.

The truly great players in the league learn to play through that, to focus on the game. How the game is thought has changed is in the past if a star player had any of the above done to them, the team goon or some other physical player would enact retribution. In today's game the great players focus on their game and the rest of the team follows suit. When the incident is egregious ala Matheson, and the other players on the team see it they will respond and have in the past. Case in point the Lightning game on Stecher, the ref's didn't do their job and the team handled it, or Ryan Miller on Matt Martin, funny enough that was also involving Stecher.

The Matheson hit was over the line, but it was behind the play and therefore people did not see it. The Kotkaniemi thing was also behind the play and instead of ignoring it Pettersson engaged and it ended up badly for Pettersson. It could have ended up just as badly for Kotkaniemi, very easily.

It's funny how people have selective memory about these sorts of things. Here's another reason why players don't act in a punitive fashion retroactive to something having been done to any player on their team: there is no such notion as a mean nothing game. Every game is important regardless if you're in the midst of a playoff race or have already been eliminated. There is always something positive to take from playing in any game during the season, whether its the chance to improve in the standings, improve individually or as a team. When fans say "oh it's a mean nothing game, just do SOMETHING" fail to see the bigger picture; I'll admit that I've been caught up in the emotion game to game as have a lot of people, it's easy to get lost in that emotion.

When cheap shots happen and it gets seen, players react nothing wrong about that or has changed at all. What has changed are the times of punitive retribution. When players cross the line there is response, both within the game and afterward by the league. Does there need to be more consistency from the league? Yes. Does there need to be more consistency from the referring? Yes. I don't dispute those ideas, but I reject the notion that players need to preoccupy themselves with retaliatory vendettas or engage in after whistle shenanigans simply because opposing teams are walking a fine line against star players.

Citing 2011 as an example is the epitome of a straw man argument, since there was a clear lack of consistency both from the league and from the referring in that series, and no amount of truculence or gooning it up would have changed the outcome. In fact, had Vancouver matched the Bruins in their antics 1:1, the series likely would not have gone to 7 games, so again I'll refute that all of the discipline didn't help them win, because it gave them the chance to win. The team simply failed to show up in game 7.

Edited by VanGnome

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10 hours ago, IBatch said:

Personally the code is in question to

Well?

 

Look what ''the Code'' did for Bertuzzi? 

 

It nearly ended his career, cost him $20 mill? Effectively ended, at least changed the life of Steve Moore. It also ended an era that was once promising for our team.

 

I'm not sure I wish for THAT code in hockey today?

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The fact that there is almost 40 games left in the season and the Canucks have done the massive road trips and seem to have decent breaks here and there, We can't write EP off from the voting yet either. He could very well have a better second half than he did in the first half. Its not uncommon for rookies to get more accumulated to the league as the season goes. The injurie could also benefit EP in the fact rookies tend to get tired in January and February and then heat up a little. EP will light up this league in the second half. Just watch and see! 

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1 hour ago, cory40 said:

The fact that there is almost 40 games left in the season and the Canucks have done the massive road trips and seem to have decent breaks here and there, We can't write EP off from the voting yet either. He could very well have a better second half than he did in the first half. Its not uncommon for rookies to get more accumulated to the league as the season goes. The injurie could also benefit EP in the fact rookies tend to get tired in January and February and then heat up a little. EP will light up this league in the second half. Just watch and see! 

Acclimated is the word you probably intended. 

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12 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

Well?

 

Look what ''the Code'' did for Bertuzzi? 

 

It nearly ended his career, cost him $20 mill? Effectively ended, at least changed the life of Steve Moore. It also ended an era that was once promising for our team.

 

I'm not sure I wish for THAT code in hockey today?

That’s rich.  Go back and quote the entire post, and then go ask around and see how many players consider what Bertuzzi did as part of the code.  Nobody wants another Bertuzzi incident. 

 

EPs played half a year and been injured twice, one play was suspendedable, the other was a hockey play that shouldn’t have resulted in an injury but did.  

 

The point I was making isn’t for everyone, personally I’d like the team to make more of an effort to provide a safe working environment for EP, much the same as Gretzky enjoyed throughout his career, as I don’t trust either the players (opposition) or the league to do it for him.   If your not sure what that means  becuase you weren’t around when he played than I’d suggest reading his book 99, and maybe watching Ice Gaurdians and the one with Nilan (Ice Gladiators I think), to see what the players themselves think about the code and the safety of their stars.  

 

I really wonder how fans will react the next time he’s injured, he’s our golden ticket, we’ve never seen anything like him before, and he can be removed from the game entirely just like that whenever anyone wants him gone in nothing games in the middle of the season.  But we are better off making sure we don’t go on the P.K.?  And not sending a message? Good grief.

 

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17 hours ago, danjr said:

I often say that if McDavid were put in a time machine and sent back to the mid-’80s, he would score about 400 points in a season, but that’s only if some coked-up Patrick Division psycho didn’t two-hand him in the neck behind some 17-point game on a Tuesday night in February.

 

This is such a stupid statement for someone who wants to be taken seriously.  Did he even watch what hockey was like in that era?

The holding, hooking, slashing, grabbing as well as legal stick sweeps by d-men, cut down scoring.  I mean if Mcdavid gets angry and proven ineffective by someone like Bo Horvat.  How in the hell would he do against some player who wouldn't get called for all of the above; which were just plain hockey plays.

 

Some people need to go back and watch some 80's games and see how hard it was to get free to score.

Actually the emphasis on defence was not so much in the 80’s. Also there was a great disparity in athleteticism among the players. The superstars of the 80’s were so much faster and better skaters than the average player. These days our superstars have a smaller gap in that aspect. Teams have employed better training, nutrition, recovery, etc...

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If he comes back from injury and explodes and leads us to a playoff spot than he will have to be at least a nomination. Just like MacKinnon or Hall last year.  It's not about the whole league it's about your effect on your team.

 

We have to make the playoffs though or he wont be nominated.

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On ‎1‎/‎13‎/‎2019 at 6:46 AM, Boeserker said:

NHL trying hard to overhype and capitalize on the unexpected success of Canucks youngsters. 

 

I say keep EP out of the lineup until he's 110% and until the NHL does something to protect the future stars of the league (ie: get rid of the instigator penalty) 

Interesting view.

 

Most here seem to believe gratuitous violence as a response will ''protect'' EP.

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I loves me some gratuitous hockey violence but it needs to be immediate, swift and consistent. 

 

Just like training a dog. Yelling at a dog 3 hours after it pisses on the floor does nothing. Rub it's nose in it right away a few times and it will stop peeing on the floor pretty quickly.

 

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