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Best Swede Ever?

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Best Swede Ever?  

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57 minutes ago, luckylager said:

Just skip to #3. 

In their prime one of Salming, Sundin, or Kent Nilsson.

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8 hours ago, Dombrova22 said:

Forsberg and it isn't a discussion. 885 points in 708 games played. How can you even argue against that? 

I think these stats make a very compelling argument for someone else:

 

Awards[edit]

 

Records[edit]

All records are as of the end of the 2011–12 regular season unless otherwise noted.

NHL[edit]

  • First European-born and trained Norris Trophy winner (2000–01).
  • First European-born and trained Conn Smythe Trophy winner (2001–02).
  • Fourth defenceman (and first European-born and trained defenceman) in NHL to win James Norris Memorial Trophy three years running (2001–2003, 2006–2008), and third seven-time Norris Trophy winner.
  • First European-born and trained captain of a Stanley Cup-winning team (2008).
  • First European-born and trained defenceman to reach 1,000 points.
  • Sixth defenceman (and 28th player overall) to reach 855 career assists.
  • Most regular season games played by a player born in Europe, any position (1,564).
  • Most regular season games played by a player in a career spent with only one team (1,564).
  • Most regular season wins played in (900).
  • Most postseason games played with single franchise, career (263)
  • Most postseason assists by defenceman with single franchise, career (129)
  • Most postseason points by defenseman with single franchise, career (183)
  • Highest postseason plus/minus, career (+61)
  • Most postseason power play goals by defenseman, career (30)
  • Most postseason shots on goal with single franchise, career (656)
  • Oldest player ever to record his first hat-trick (40 years, 210 days)
  • Oldest defenceman ever to record a hat-trick (40 years, 210 days)
  • Oldest Norris Trophy winner (41 years, 57 days) (2010–2011)

 

7 TIME NORRIS TROPHY WINNER.  Let that stat sink in.  The only defenceman to win more is the greatest defenceman of all time and 2nd greatest player ever...

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Bruh you didn't put EP40 on there, you're gonna get banned from CDC now.

 

Jokes aside, it's Lidstrom hands down. Question should be who's the second best.

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Probably Lidstrom then Forsberg (just the sheer strength, skill and offensive flair), and these two should be untouchable barring some legendary totals from EP.

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I don't see how anyone could choose anyone over Lidstrom? The guy is arguably the best D to ever play

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Forsberg could do it all when he was in his prime..  He certainly deserves this honour.

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Voted for Lidstrom but I was torn between him and Forsberg.

 

3 on 3 hockey.  Sundin and Forsberg with Lidstrom on D and Lundqvist in net.

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On 1/20/2019 at 5:30 PM, kingofsurrey said:

Henrik Lundqvist

 

Soon to be 5th overall in all time goalie wins........  He may if make top 3 before he is done.

Greatest Swede ever.......

Sigh.  I feel like a broken record, but if you take away OT wins and OT lossess and Shoot out wins and shoot out losses s, and make them ties, he’s not even half way through the 300 wins yet and has a long way to get to 400.   He’s been in over a hundred shoot-outs, and the majority of those are wins.  Lundqvist has never one a Vezina (or a cup, but ford have a gold medal which counts for something) that I can recall anyways, and barely cracks the top thirty goaltenders all-time...

 

Same goes for Luongo, same goes for Fleury.   Makes what Roy, Belfour, Cujo, Sawchuk (who many consider the all time best, no OT aback then, over 100 SOs and 440ish wins, in an era when OT didnt exist and it was just a Tie ) Plante etc all that more impressive.  Broduer too but his career overlaps a bit.

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On 1/21/2019 at 9:40 AM, logic said:

I don't see how anyone could choose anyone over Lidstrom? The guy is arguably the best D to ever play

He wasn’t even the best in his own era.  That distinction goes to Borque, he didn’t win his trophies until the competition thinned out some in Coffey, Chelios, Mcinnis aged out, and Blake, Pronger, Murphy best seasons were done  and it showed given he was thirty before he won.  Orr and Shore deserve the most props in the Hart trophies assigned to them, followed by Borque, Potvin, Coffey and then maybe five other names including Lidtsrom could be considered. Top ten for sure...maybe as high as top five. 

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On 1/21/2019 at 12:56 AM, Elias Pettersson said:

I think these stats make a very compelling argument for someone else:

 

Awards[edit]

 

Records[edit]

All records are as of the end of the 2011–12 regular season unless otherwise noted.

NHL[edit]

  • First European-born and trained Norris Trophy winner (2000–01).
  • First European-born and trained Conn Smythe Trophy winner (2001–02).
  • Fourth defenceman (and first European-born and trained defenceman) in NHL to win James Norris Memorial Trophy three years running (2001–2003, 2006–2008), and third seven-time Norris Trophy winner.
  • First European-born and trained captain of a Stanley Cup-winning team (2008).
  • First European-born and trained defenceman to reach 1,000 points.
  • Sixth defenceman (and 28th player overall) to reach 855 career assists.
  • Most regular season games played by a player born in Europe, any position (1,564).
  • Most regular season games played by a player in a career spent with only one team (1,564).
  • Most regular season wins played in (900).
  • Most postseason games played with single franchise, career (263)
  • Most postseason assists by defenceman with single franchise, career (129)
  • Most postseason points by defenseman with single franchise, career (183)
  • Highest postseason plus/minus, career (+61)
  • Most postseason power play goals by defenseman, career (30)
  • Most postseason shots on goal with single franchise, career (656)
  • Oldest player ever to record his first hat-trick (40 years, 210 days)
  • Oldest defenceman ever to record a hat-trick (40 years, 210 days)
  • Oldest Norris Trophy winner (41 years, 57 days) (2010–2011)

 

7 TIME NORRIS TROPHY WINNER.  Let that stat sink in.  The only defenceman to win more is the greatest defenceman of all time and 2nd greatest player ever...

Check out the last one they gave him, it was a farce, not all Norris trophies are the same.  Aside from Neidermayer who was also aging and Pronger who won the year before and took home the Hart, he didn’t face the same quality of opposition as he did in his 20s and the nineties.  He wasn’t good enough to beat an aging Borque or Coffey, or Chelios, Mcinnis or Pronger or Blake.  But once they aged out or retired nobody was left but guys like Zubov for awhile, Gonchar, Visnovksy etc.  Not exactly as hard to win it.  His last one was a joke, he was a -2 and didn’t light it up either.

 

One could argue that Karlsson is better, he’s already won more Norris trophies and all-star berths at the same age, was robbed of one (so Doughty could get his finally) and is making a care for another one this year now that the rest of the team is caught up to his level (at least that’s how Wilson describes it and he should know having won one himself).  

 

Hes is also one of three defenseman ever to be in the top ten in scoring three times and managed that by year six.  He’s also been extremely consistent with an exception of last year, but that train wreck was epic.  Lidstrom also had the luxury of playing on the leagues best team his entire career, with parts of two cores.  And pre cap they were some doozies too.  Still couldn’t win a Norris until Borque got his cup and retired.

 

And finally Harvey might have something to say about being the next best if it’s all about the trophies and dig a little deeper and check out Shore.  The Norris didn’t exist then but from the time he laced them up until the time he retired he was considered the best defenseman almost every year.  Some experts say he’d have at least ten Norris trophies to go along with his record four or so Hart trophies.  

 

Orr was the best no doubt, Shore probably second, then Borque or Potvin (I prefer Potvin, he won when Orr couldand Park didn’t ha ha), then Harvey or Coffey or someone else but not Lidstrom.  He was a great defenseman no doubt but how would the have faired if he started in SJ and the later moved to say the some other crap franchise just getting started. Not nearly as well.  Karlsson on the other hand has proved he can do it pretty much all on his own, and now had a chance to play with what before the start of the year was an aging mediocre team, not far from total rebuild territory, and now is taking over the West.  Resting this all-Star game,  maybe taking a run at another trophy.

 

I watched Lidstrom a lot, he was smooth and great at getting the puck out, got his points (and had lots of help there, again don’t think he’s capable of doing it all on his own), but didn’t crush guys or run them over.   Robinson had an insane plus minus and could crunch guys, and did some legendary things with the greatest team ever and beyond that...has some trophies too, is he better or worse than Lisdstrom (he was sure better at keeping the puck out of the net)..

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On 1/23/2019 at 6:15 PM, IBatch said:

He wasn’t even the best in his own era.  That distinction goes to Borque, he didn’t win his trophies until the competition thinned out some in Coffey, Chelios, Mcinnis aged out, and Blake, Pronger, Murphy best seasons were done  and it showed given he was thirty before he won.  Orr and Shore deserve the most props in the Hart trophies assigned to them, followed by Borque, Potvin, Coffey and then maybe five other names including Lidtsrom could be considered. Top ten for sure...maybe as high as top five. 

Glad I didn’t have to say it, you did.

Its amusing to read the millennial crowd, and those even younger, post with conviction about players they may have never even see play or were in elementary school, at best, when these guys on the list were in their prime. 

This is CDC in a nutshell though, so, par. 

 

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3 hours ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Glad I didn’t have to say it, you did.

Its amusing to read the millennial crowd, and those even younger, post with conviction about players they may have never even see play or were in elementary school, at best, when these guys on the list were in their prime. 

This is CDC in a nutshell though, so, par. 

 

Whenever I read that Lidstrom is the best or second best after Orr I have a physical reaction.  I write a lot of posts that may appear anti-Lidstrom (and admittedly I didn’t like his Center ice goal on Cloutier, we had a ridiculously stacked team on the ropes until then) but in fact I like him.  He was a great hockey player who went about his business as cool as a cucumber.  He also played on some excellent teams with a lot of other HHOFs,  never had to struggle the way Karlsson had to, look what he’s doing now on a mediocre team, turning them into contenders.  

 

He played with Larry Murphy, Larionov, Federov, Yzerman, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Osgood, Vernon, Hasek, Shanahan, Hull, Robataille and at least that many names that were very good third and fourth liners.   All those guys are deserving of the HHOF and most are already in.  

 

Karlsson maybe played a bit with Alfie who might get in, but otherwise nobody that even gets star status.  

 

On the Pronger, Chelios, Coffey, front they all played with different teams and were impact stars on each of them.  Same with Murphy, and Macinnis. Bourque and Blake got their cup later on in COL, but were also Norris winners during Lidstroms 20’s....Pronger won the Hart in 2000, first and only defenseman to do so since Orr did (and Shore is the only other one to do it and he did it a record four times and would have one 10  Norris trophies if they existed back then). 

 

Again after all his competition retired (after Borque won all his Lidstrom still didn’t as others were better than him that did win) or aged out all of a sudden it was a blue ocean scenario with only Zubov, Visnovsky and gulp guys like Gonchar left to compete against.  Not all trophies are the same either, they gifted him his last one, he didn’t deserve it but got another one anyways, maybe because then he’d have so many he could retire off into the sunset as a modern hockey icon?  Really a minus 2, after back to back finals (not like the team sucked or anything).  It was a joke back then and still is today.

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41 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Hearing what Smithers Joe would have to say would be cool. 

Yep, I bet Harvey might get some props too.  

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