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[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at Chicago Blackhawks | Feb. 07, 2019

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7 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

DeNiro

 

You can yell until you are blue in the face....these guys won't get it. All they see (and Benning and Green as well) is the possible 16th and last Playoff spot, and that is the only thing they are looking at...……..It frustrates me to no end, to see our prospects...…Demko, Gaudette, McEwen, Juolevi, Sautner, and McEneny not getting meaningful games up 

here when there are injuries.

 

It frustrates me even further, that Benning and his Co (CDC fans included) thinking that going for the brass ring (16 OA ) is more important than getting a handle on these young guys and moving out players that should not be in the long terms plans of the Canucks...…...and showing them, they are more than seat warmers in Utica, and really do  fit into the Canucks big picture, It only goes to remind me that Tryamkin may have been the first to feel this. As if I was sitting in Utica at 24 like McEneny, and I could play better than Pouliot, and not seeing a call up, I might go find another team...……..I am absolutely sure Edmonton would be looking at him, and a few others as well.

 

There needs to be a system for the second tier players, who finally get to a point where they can compete, but are still not get called up. There needs to be a policy that over-rides Coaches and assistant coaches, who are more concerned with developing a player for 2 years, and not seeing any improvement.

 

We (the Canucks) need to take the next step and develop that mentality...……..development does not just happen in Utica, but happens slowly, having seen samples to understand the actually strength, force, agility, speed, [positioning of an nhl player, on a nhl team, who when collectively playing play at a much higher pace and flow.

This is why you bring up those players (up for a few games with sheltered minutes) back down to practice what he has learned, and again later having the same opportunity to show you upper management and coach, that you have learned those lessons, and a chance to as for more.

 

I like our team this year, but I am more concerned with building a new team, than being afraid to make moves......because  a playoff may be close...….

It frustrates me>

OK you hockeynut. I want the prospects rotated thru the roster like you do. I do not think management plays favorites. There is a lot of built up anticipation within the Canuck fan base. A lot of years without a sniff of success or even hope of success. IMHO when Linden and Benning started out they were faced with org deficiencies, not just in talent but also culture. Fans take pleasure in being suspicious of ownership motives etc. Fact is this is the best ownership the club has ever had. They have spent to the max and have in fact taken direction from their management. My attitude on this might change if they do something stupid towards making the playoffs. 

 

My attitude towards Benning and Green is that they have a long term plan towards serious playoff contention. Making playoffs this year is in my opinion a 'feel good' exercise as this group is not close to being ready. This season was all about development and evaluation. We want to see the prospects and as soon as the TDL is done I suspect that happens. Why not already? I have to have confidence in management's judgement and conviction for their plan. Slow and methodical development. We all know the obvious deductions from the current roster. Pouliot is still here because there is no real reason why not. We now know what Hutton is and to a degree Stecher. We are seeing a budding star in Virtanen. These are development home runs IMO. Mott has pushed Granlund to the side. Gaudette has had a solid rookie season. 

 

IMHO the Utica Comets having a long Calder playoff run is far more important than the Canucks making playoffs. Having 4 - 5 Utica players come thru the Canuck roster in March would have a positive impact towards that goal. Management has put a veteran tender and d-man into Utica to help. I am hoping Hughes ends up in Utica to close the season. I would also suggest that Joulevi's injury threw a wrench into the orgs plans this year. He was the only d-man who stood to bump Pouliot off the ice this year. He would have seen ice by X-Mass if he had not been injured.  

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7 hours ago, Tom Sestito said:

Probably the best post I've ever seen on CDC

I disagree. It's a rant that isn't very well defended.

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22 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

I disagree. It's a rant that isn't very well defended.

Pretty much bash the usual suspects and pump up the usual prospects. Nothing  havent seen before.

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1 hour ago, Hairy Kneel said:

Same with Schaller wasting a roster spot

We could have forward help that is actually ready to play. Schaller's heart isn't into this team he has just 7 pm's here with us this year.Looking at his penalty minutes shows that 42 pm for Boston last year. Represents a lack of heart. We don't need passengers. How tf did he get 12 goals last year!?

2017-18 Boston Bruins NHL 82 12 10 22 42 -5 11 0 2 2 2
2018-19 Vancouver Canucks NHL 35 0 5 5 7 -4  

Perhaps he is being told to play a certain style which is penalty adverse. My sense is Green does not want his guys in the box as he is obsessed with points over team toughness. Boston plays the other way. Take the early penalties but don't stop being aggressive because the refs eventually pocket the whistles after so may infractions. The tone of the games become completely different. Peg does this as well. Nucks need to do this.

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21 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

OK you hockeynut. I want the prospects rotated thru the roster like you do. I do not think management plays favorites. There is a lot of built up anticipation within the Canuck fan base. A lot of years without a sniff of success or even hope of success. IMHO when Linden and Benning started out they were faced with org deficiencies, not just in talent but also culture. Fans take pleasure in being suspicious of ownership motives etc. Fact is this is the best ownership the club has ever had. They have spent to the max and have in fact taken direction from their management. My attitude on this might change if they do something stupid towards making the playoffs. 

 

My attitude towards Benning and Green is that they have a long term plan towards serious playoff contention. Making playoffs this year is in my opinion a 'feel good' exercise as this group is not close to being ready. This season was all about development and evaluation. We want to see the prospects and as soon as the TDL is done I suspect that happens. Why not already? I have to have confidence in management's judgement and conviction for their plan. Slow and methodical development. We all know the obvious deductions from the current roster. Pouliot is still here because there is no real reason why not. We now know what Hutton is and to a degree Stecher. We are seeing a budding star in Virtanen. These are development home runs IMO. Mott has pushed Granlund to the side. Gaudette has had a solid rookie season. 

 

IMHO the Utica Comets having a long Calder playoff run is far more important than the Canucks making playoffs. Having 4 - 5 Utica players come thru the Canuck roster in March would have a positive impact towards that goal. Management has put a veteran tender and d-man into Utica to help. I am hoping Hughes ends up in Utica to close the season. I would also suggest that Joulevi's injury threw a wrench into the orgs plans this year. He was the only d-man who stood to bump Pouliot off the ice this year. He would have seen ice by X-Mass if he had not been injured.  

Solid post. JB has been clear on the fact that they aren't going to sell the future to facilitate a run at the cup, and it's ridiculous to think that they would intentionally impede development of the young players they have drafted. If anything I think that with more patient development the Canucks are trying to build an AHL team that has so much talent and competition that it will feed "ready now" prospects into the parent club just as it starts it's ascendancy.     

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12 hours ago, Odd. said:

Pouliot needs to be sat for a couple of games. His play has been unacceptable for months now. 

 

I don't think I can remember a defenseman in the last 10 years as bad as Pouliot.

Don't you remember Bartkowski?

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4 hours ago, Canckelhead said:

All these ppl on here saying they look tired, they're exhausted.... they just had a weak break, their NOT tired at all, it's called EFFORT !

I guess you missed Edler being injured leading to Hutton playing 30 minutes. But no it's not fatigue it's effort lol. :huh:

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9 hours ago, Quantum said:

The problem is getting those guys to Vancouver. Several players will need to hit waivers.

 

Goldobin won't hit waivers, it's clear management hasn't given up on him. And he's better than several players currently on the roster.

 

What really sucks, and this is Benning's fault, is that Schaller clearly shouldn't be on the roster. He just hasn't been the player he was last year in Boston. Apparently ownership isn't interested in seeing Schaller and Gagner buried in the minors. The team picked one to send to the AHL. They picked Gagner. Schaller will probably get the Gagner treatment next year if he isn't dealt at the deadline or in the summer.

 

I think there's a genuine case to be made that Granlund should be waived. He's never going to hit that 19 goal season and is a shell of his potential. The trade that got him was a big win for the Canucks but he's not very productive anymore. MacEwen would be better in the bottom six. He's got size, a shot, and uses his body. He's also the ultimate underdog in this organization. Undrafted QMJHL player who wasn't even in the Q during his draft year. He's clawed his way up at every level. There was a hit piece article written about him at CanucksArmy calling his signing "a waste of a contract space" and "pour asset management" that caused the writer of the article to write an apology article a year later about how WRONG he was to write that article in the first place. MacEwen has the intangibles of compete and character, exactly what the Canucks like. He should see some time with the Canucks before the season ends. Ideally before the deadline.

 

Pouliot needs to go. He's just bad. He plays that sloppy style of hockey that is AHL hockey. He's probably the Reid Boucher of defensemen in this organization. He's not good enough and should not be a regular NHLer but will probably be a perennial AHL all-star. He'd be great in Utica if he clears. And I think he'd clear. He, like Del Zotto, probably spends September on a PTO elsewhere. That's why waiving won't be a waste. The Canucks got him by trading a 4th and a KHLer for him. Losing the 4th sucks but he did play a season and a half for us. The player selected in the 4th round probably never plays an NHL game. It's time to take your losses. It's sort of a "meh" deal. Canucks win it, but it doesn't feel like a win. I'd replace Pouliot with Brisebois, Sautner, McEneny, or Chatfield. Preferably Sautner first since he showed well at the end of last season. Then, Brisebois. Then McEneny. And then Chatfield.  That's just my opinion.

 

Gaudette is a unique case. He should be in the NHL. He's better than Sutter. He's a point per game at the AHL level. He's the future 3rd line C of this team. He should be centering our third scoring line. Problem is, Sutter is in the way. And Sutter needs to get moved. Sutter probably doesn't get moved this season. And that sucks. Sutter's been a good stopgap between generations of Canucks. But Sutter's deal is one year too long and it's costing the Canucks now. The Canucks would be in a better position with Gaudette in the lineup. He's faster and more skilled than Sutter. Only downside is that Sutter is a better "defensive" player. I don't hate Gaudette playing in the AHL for the back half of the season. It'll be good to give him 1C time and confidence and it's good to have him develop some chemistry with Zack MacEwen because, in the future, I could see a Leivo/Gaudette/MacEwen line really taking off as our 3rd line when the Canucks hit there prime. The real question for the Canucks is do they trust Gaudette enough to move Sutter in the summer. I'm sure if they deal Sutter in the offseason and don't take a significant body back -- especially on draft day -- there'd probably be cheers at Rogers Arena. Big question will be if management has the balls to pull the trigger. Because Horvat/Pettersson/Gaudette/Beagle down the middle is pretty damn solid. Add in a Tyler Madden in March 2020 (that's when I expect he'll go pro), things are going to get interesting.

 

I think it's best for the Canucks to let Dahlen play the entire year in Utica. He's still adjusting. And there isn't a spot in the Top 6 for him at the moment. My worry is that he'll become a "Goldobin" type of player without the right kind of development. I don't expect Dahlen to get NHL games this year but should get some next season.

 

The player I'd absolutely love to see get some games at the tail end of this season is Lukas Jasek. He's such a fun player to watch in Utica. He's all over the ice, creates plays, and never seems discouraged by lack of playing time. I think he's going to be a Canucks for awhile. He's from the same draft class as Boeser, Gaudette, and Brisebois (2015), so he should be close to getting some NHL time. Honestly, Schaller's probably the reason Jasek won't get NHL time this season AND THAT BLOWS. Because I think if you have Motte, Jasek, and Roussel buzzing around your bottom six, you're going to create a lot of fast havoc for the opposition and it would just make for some VERY fun hockey to watch. 

 

The other anchor on this Canucks team is Eriksson. There's rumors he may retire after July 1 as that's the last year of his HUGE bonuses. As the rest of the contract mellows out. His NMC becomes a NTC. If Eriksson doesn't retire (as I suspect, he's still young-ish), there's definitely a market for him. Probably a cap floor team will take him on. Ottawa comes to mind. Maybe Carolina. Or Arizona. He's solid defensively but he's a shell of his former self. I suspect if he gets injured near the end of season, much like last season, the Canucks will just "shut him down" for the year and let a young guy play. MacEwen/Jasek probably come in to replace him. That's the best hope.

 

Outside of trading him, I legitimately don't know what to make of Gudbranson being on this roster. I like his size? He seems like a really nice guy? But that's about it... UGH, why did the Canucks re-sign him last year?!?!?!?

 

But I'm with you. Wish the Canucks would get the young guys in. I just don't know HOW they get the young guys in.

 

 

Schaller has been disappointing - no one is going to argue otherwise. It's like his game got sapped by the contract that he took. But how would anyone else know that this would happen until afterward, Captain Hindsight? You're acting as if Benning purposefully put a dud on the roster. Why would he do that?

 

Benning said that if young players outplay veterans, space would be made for the younger players to play. Schaller AND Gagner aren't on the roster and they're two of Benning's signings. Benning is human and will make mistakes. But he admits them and finds a good place for them whenever he can. Everyone hates on Eriksson but he's worked very hard to stay in the roster.

 

Which brings me to the next part. Granlund. The 19 goal season appears to be somewhat of aberration. That being said, he still has 9 goals so far, which is decent for what you'd expect for a third/fourth liner, and he still has more games to potentially score more. My biggest complaint with him is that his faceoffs are subpar compared to other players, so he's not very good as a center. With Beagle and Sutter in the lineup, Granlund is basically just a spare. If Goldobin (the player that replaced Granlund) falters again, you'll see Granlund appear again.

 

MacEwen is as unproven as a player can get in the NHL. We saw how different Archibald played when he came up here versus in the AHL. We have no idea how good he'll be, but there's several other players that deserve to play before he does, unless there's a slew of injuries. Yes, Granlund is on this list, so is Schaller.  Maybe we'll see MacEwen next year in training camp and maybe he'll run with the opportunity. Who knows? I'm not ruling him out.

 

Relax - Gaudette's going to be on the team sooner rather than later. The Canucks want him to develop his game further by playing hard minutes, which he's done marvellously in spades. I am sure he'll make Granlund expendable at the very least, and/or the other players you mentioned. Sutter's faceoffs are important for the team - and so is Beagle's. No one will argue that these two players are an offensive threat. Gaudette seems to be a perfect blend of GOOD faceoffs and UNTAPPED offensive talent. Be patient. Everyone knows Gaudette's good. He's proven it during his time up here.

 

I am excited about Jasek as much as you, but if Jasek can't play that much in the AHL, what makes you think he will do well in the NHL at this stage? Right now, he needs more playing time, like Gaudette does. Jasek needs the time to adjust to the NA game. The rest of your rant about Schaller is non-sensical and irrelevant to Jasek.

 

Obviously, Eriksson's not worth 6M. But he's managed to stay in the roster and work hard doing so. It's weird that Granlund has almost identical stats to Eriksson (9 goals, 9 assists for Granlund and 9 goals 12 assists for Eriksson). I'm sure the salary differences have been the reason why Eriksson has stayed in for as long as he did. But I'm not going to slag Eriksson any further. His offensive game is not where it used to be, but he's made up for it somewhat with his defensive game. He's also one of the fittest players on the team.

 

Gudbranson is weird. He has "size" which people loved, but clearly he's struggling in the newer NHL, like a lot of bigger defenseman. The reason Gudbranson was signed was for the potential "toughness" factor. He has a combination of skating (he's slowish, but decent for a big guy), leadership, toughness that no one else in the roster/system has. Like Tanev, the Canucks wish that he'd have more offensive contribution. But Gudbranson also seems like a guy that makes a ton of mistakes - Tanev has too, recently. The fact is, no one is perfect. Remember Hutton? The guy that sucked last year? Look how good he has become. Can we just "give up" on players? NO. Until there's other players that can replace them, we don't have much of a choice.

 

To acquire players, you need to trade or sign. Someone like Byfuglien would be nice, but Winnipeg's not going to trade him. My point is, to get the high calibre guys, it's going to be a king's ransom - something that we can't afford to do, not while we are in our youth movement. We can overpay for free agent players, but we could end up getting guys like Eriksson. (Sorry Eriksson) - or Lucic. BTW Eriksson >>>>> Lucic for the exact same salary.

 

Assembling a team is not as easy as you are writing it. Like most people, you're relying your information on hindsight.

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Yep, it's that time of year again, the losses are happening - but these are meaningful games. ;) Losers in 4 of their last 5. Maybe it'll make the TDL more interesting. 

 

 

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Tanev - playing his off side and everyone is losing their ........ - give it a rest.  But that isn't really what I came in here to say - I am very impressed with the improvement and progress of the Hutton Stetcher pairing.  I think Stetch should be seeing some PP time. And speaking of PP  - we seem to be going down the same path as last year when Vanek finally chatted up Brown.  It isn't working - it needs to be changed up.  The drop pass is getting old. I feel Jake would be a good addition to the 1st unit - he has speed and strength to bring the puck through the neutral zone . He is a force in front of the net. 

 

It was a entertaining game though - thought we deserved better then 3 points on the road trip. 

Home for the Flames and Sharks - it could be tough

GCG

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1 hour ago, Freeridebc said:

Its true. What bothers me is seeing Biegas hustle and how hard he plays opponents,for...6 games a year? How hasn't he cracked the line up. Hughes hurry up!

He hasn't cracked the line up on a steady basis because, after 3 or 4 games in a row, his energy level drops and so does his play.

Biega is a short term relief player, not a day to day player at the NHL level.

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How about that Debrincat kid? Very shifty. Kane's replacement for when hes gone.

 

I thought the Canucks played great 5on5. PK wasnt the best - but the Hawks PP is lethal. Our PP is what lost us the game. 

 

On to the next one. Phlegms next. Tough game but winnable.

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13 minutes ago, Maginator said:

How about that Debrincat kid? Very shifty. Kane's replacement for when hes gone.

 

I thought the Canucks played great 5on5. PK wasnt the best - but the Hawks PP is lethal. Our PP is what lost us the game. 

 

On to the next one. Phlegms next. Tough game but winnable.

Makes it very interesting come summer of 2021 when the Seattle ED happens as the Hawks have FOUR players with NMC and no doubt they will lose an up and coming piece of their core just because they are handcuffed from the OG cup core. Don’t think they will lose Debrincat but a good player nevertheless and I couldn’t be happier when it happens.

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43 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

Gudbranson is weird. He has "size" which people loved, but clearly he's struggling in the newer NHL, like a lot of bigger defenseman. The reason Gudbranson was signed was for the potential "toughness" factor. He has a combination of skating (he's slowish, but decent for a big guy), leadership, toughness that no one else in the roster/system has. Like Tanev, the Canucks wish that he'd have more offensive contribution. But Gudbranson also seems like a guy that makes a ton of mistakes - Tanev has too, recently. The fact is, no one is perfect. Remember Hutton? The guy that sucked last year? Look how good he has become. Can we just "give up" on players? NO. Until there's other players that can replace them, we don't have much of a choice.

I agree with your take on Gudbranson.  There's no question that Guddy has struggled to compete in the faster game and the high pace exposes shortcomings in his decision making.  At the same time however, like you said, Guddy provides something that no one else in the system has.  Until the Canucks have a player who can provide the same physicality on D but who makes better decisions and skates better, I don't mind them playing him.

 

Guddy's struggles, I think, are compounded by a few factors.  Firstly, Guddy's decision making has not been great but every D man makes mistakes so it's a matter of mitigating the consequences of those errors.  Secondly, and built on the first, it's a matter of Guddy's D partners.  Guddy had a good run during Edler's first stretch of absence while playing with Hutton but obviously that's been forgotten and may have been an outlier.  Having said that, I believe that Guddy's mistakes can be mitigated if he plays with a suitable partner.  Thirdly, Derrick Pouliot is, unfortunately, not a suitable partner for Guddy and a guy like Hutton is better suited being paired with a better quality D.

 

Quite frankly, I think Guddy might play well with another defensive minded D but who skates better, passes better and generally makes better decisions.  While Hutton has played way better this season, I think he's still generally more offense minded which can produce problems in coverage between the two of them.

 

I am still optimistic about Juolevi and I'm very curious about how he'll transition his game to the NHL level.  I'm also very curious if coaching will pair him with Guddy.  I'm not super familiar with Juolevi's game but despite his offensive production, my understanding is that he's a very stable D who plays both ends of the rink well.  Perhaps Juolevi might be a better partner for Guddy (better than Hughes too - Hughes is great but he takes a lot of risks in such a way that Guddy may not be a good partner for him).

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9 hours ago, xereau said:

This is not the kind of discussion most on these boards like to have.  Calling someone idiotic helps, how?

 

You might want to read and absorb this:

 

https://thebestschools.org/magazine/15-logical-fallacies-know/

 

I can point out at least 3 fallacies in your previous 2 posts.

Actually I called the comment idiotic not the person. People can make idiotic comments and not be idiots. I guess you missed that 

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9 hours ago, AlwaysACanuckFan said:

With 27 games to go, he will overtake all of them 

I am predicting Elias potting 35-40 goals in his rookie campaign. So yeah, he will overtake them all if he continues at this frenetic pace.

 

 

4 hours ago, IBatch said:

Soooo...what your saying is he CAN outscore Sutter?

Sutter had a 40 pt season with Carolina in 09-10. Even last year with the Canucks he had 17g 17a.  Yes, he isn't doing so well this year but he just came back from injury. He's still a veteran guy with a $4.125m salary and I don't think we should just sell him down river because he's not scoring goals right now. See, you know what you're getting with Sutter. He's solid defensively and can chip in on offense too. With Gaudette you don't know what you're going to get, he has only played 32 games in the NHL! 

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1 hour ago, Bo fan said:

Tanev - playing his off side and everyone is losing their ........ - give it a rest.  But that isn't really what I came in here to say - I am very impressed with the improvement and progress of the Hutton Stetcher pairing.  I think Stetch should be seeing some PP time. And speaking of PP  - we seem to be going down the same path as last year when Vanek finally chatted up Brown.  It isn't working - it needs to be changed up.  The drop pass is getting old. I feel Jake would be a good addition to the 1st unit - he has speed and strength to bring the puck through the neutral zone . He is a force in front of the net. 

 

It was a entertaining game though - thought we deserved better then 3 points on the road trip. 

Home for the Flames and Sharks - it could be tough

GCG

Yeah, I think the guys screaming for Tanev's head are the same ones that were suggesting we move Edler at the dead line before he got injured. These guys just don't seem to understand the importance of a teams top D pairing. With one out and one playing his off wing we suddenly look like a completely different team. 

 

The PP was laughable tonight. Another poster suggested having Petterson quarterback from the point rather than on the half wall because he'll have more space to make a play. The defenders won't try to double team him at the point because it would leave too many open players in front of the net. I think that's an excellent idea. They should try it.

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13 minutes ago, CptCanuck16 said:

I am predicting Elias potting 35-40 goals in his rookie campaign. So yeah, he will overtake them all if he continues at this frenetic pace.

 

 

Sutter had a 40 pt season with Carolina in 09-10. Even last year with the Canucks he had 17g 17a.  Yes, he isn't doing so well this year but he just came back from injury. He's still a veteran guy with a $4.125m salary and I don't think we should just sell him down river because he's not scoring goals right now. See, you know what you're getting with Sutter. He's solid defensively and can chip in on offense too. With Gaudette you don't know what you're going to get, he has only played 32 games in the NHL! 

Exactly, Sutter has value especially as a defensive specialist in the playoffs (at least there was lots of interest last year), where as Gaudette is a guy who adjusted to the AHL right away, has potential, and we are a rebuilding squad.    Benning could use that or not, I trust in him.   Don’t think we will see Gaudette unless there are injuries, management would love it if we made the playoffs...and so would I.  But another lottery ticket might be the wiser move, especially with Edler out.  Might be time to pack it in and see what we have in some of the guys including Gaudette.

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