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[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at Chicago Blackhawks | Feb. 07, 2019

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32 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

He is becoming my favorite Canuck. He does everything right and he goes110% every shift. He's a great skater with a pretty good shot that GETS TO THE NET! AND..... like you said, he hits. What a concept.

Too bad he didn't play more though, I guess one day he will be as good as our other NHL regulars.:lol:

The only thing with Biega is he tends to fade after a few games absolute perfect number 7/8 dman though. 

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20 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

The only thing with Biega is he tends to fade after a few games absolute perfect number 7/8 dman though. 

He can only get better,  Consistency  can go both ways. more games more experience.  

 

BUT the counter of that is Edler... look at the years he has been here.  No improvement. <_<

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Something I forgot to mention:

 

Hutton played worse against the Hawks because he is being overplayed by Green.

 

Its the same situation as Horvat earlier this year... he was overplayed and his overall play level went down.

 

I know the other choices on D for who to play are not good... but grinding down Hutton and making him lose confidence is not a solution.

 

Keep Hutton at 25:00 minutes and play the other D a little more.

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9 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

The only thing with Biega is he tends to fade after a few games absolute perfect number 7/8 dman though. 

We have a few "7/8" dmen on the team and he appears to be the best of the bunch, at least the one I most enjoy watching anyway. Most of our dmen are so-so at defense and so-so at offense. The only two that exceed in the defensive department is Edler and Tanev. 

The reason I like him is that he makes little mistakes(Pouliot?), hits a lot(Pouliot,Stecher?), gets his shots on net(Edler,Stecher,Hutton?) and is probably the fastest skater out of all of them. That and he likes to throw in a little creativity in his game and doesn't treat the puck like a hot potato.

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Biega should be getting 20 minutes per game minimum. That is all. 

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4 hours ago, NUCKER67 said:

Oh yeah, forgot all about little Troy Stecher. Wow, a +17! I'm surprised by this, but he's a firecracker. Good on him.

 

I was just pointing out how much more reliable a Dman Edler is compared to Hutton. Tanev gets a lot of praise, and sometimes he certainly deserves it, but he makes some glaring errors as well. Sometimes when he has the puck on his stick, you can see him get awkward and then he panics to deke a player or get a shot off. Very good Dman, but shaky on offence. Edler and Tanev have faced the other teams' best lines, so I'll cut them some slack.  

 

I'm looking forward to Hughes.

 

And Boeser is better than Horvat 

+/- is honestly a pretty awful stat to use in a vacuum. Where’s the fancy stats like offensive/defensive zone starts, and quality of opposition, giveaways vs takeaways? These are pretty key factors in determining how well a player is playing other than just saying “wow what a great plus minus player A is clearly better than player B!”

 

I’m sorry, but the bolded? No. Boeser is absolutely not a better player than Horvat. Is he better offensively, better at scoring goals? I’d perhaps give you that. But a lot of nights, you don’t notice Boeser and then he’ll pot one, not to mention he’s riding shotgun on our leading point scorers line. Bo has worked his ass off this year, particularly when Sutter and Beagle were both injured and he was taking every other face off, and has maintained a pretty spectacular 53.1% in the dot. He hits, block shots, will fight, is on pace to again set a new personal best this season in points... crush it actually, all with 59.4% DZ starts. 

 

Don’t get me wrong, I love Boeser, and was defending him to many people on this forum when he “didn’t look right” at times this season. I mean no sh|t he didn’t look right, he’s had two pretty major injuries in less than a year. But to say he’s outright a better player than Horvat, especially basing it on +/- as you did, is ludicrous imo. 

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1 hour ago, DarthMelvin said:

He can only get better,  Consistency  can go both ways. more games more experience.  

 

BUT the counter of that is Edler... look at the years he has been here.  No improvement. <_<

If that's not a troll post your lack of hockey IQ on this subject requires no further discussion. 

Edited by canuck73_3
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6 hours ago, Dazzle said:

Schaller has been disappointing - no one is going to argue otherwise. It's like his game got sapped by the contract that he took. But how would anyone else know that this would happen until afterward, Captain Hindsight? You're acting as if Benning purposefully put a dud on the roster. Why would he do that?

 

Benning said that if young players outplay veterans, space would be made for the younger players to play. Schaller AND Gagner aren't on the roster and they're two of Benning's signings. Benning is human and will make mistakes. But he admits them and finds a good place for them whenever he can. Everyone hates on Eriksson but he's worked very hard to stay in the roster.

 

Which brings me to the next part. Granlund. The 19 goal season appears to be somewhat of aberration. That being said, he still has 9 goals so far, which is decent for what you'd expect for a third/fourth liner, and he still has more games to potentially score more. My biggest complaint with him is that his faceoffs are subpar compared to other players, so he's not very good as a center. With Beagle and Sutter in the lineup, Granlund is basically just a spare. If Goldobin (the player that replaced Granlund) falters again, you'll see Granlund appear again.

 

MacEwen is as unproven as a player can get in the NHL. We saw how different Archibald played when he came up here versus in the AHL. We have no idea how good he'll be, but there's several other players that deserve to play before he does, unless there's a slew of injuries. Yes, Granlund is on this list, so is Schaller.  Maybe we'll see MacEwen next year in training camp and maybe he'll run with the opportunity. Who knows? I'm not ruling him out.

 

Relax - Gaudette's going to be on the team sooner rather than later. The Canucks want him to develop his game further by playing hard minutes, which he's done marvellously in spades. I am sure he'll make Granlund expendable at the very least, and/or the other players you mentioned. Sutter's faceoffs are important for the team - and so is Beagle's. No one will argue that these two players are an offensive threat. Gaudette seems to be a perfect blend of GOOD faceoffs and UNTAPPED offensive talent. Be patient. Everyone knows Gaudette's good. He's proven it during his time up here.

 

I am excited about Jasek as much as you, but if Jasek can't play that much in the AHL, what makes you think he will do well in the NHL at this stage? Right now, he needs more playing time, like Gaudette does. Jasek needs the time to adjust to the NA game. The rest of your rant about Schaller is non-sensical and irrelevant to Jasek.

 

Obviously, Eriksson's not worth 6M. But he's managed to stay in the roster and work hard doing so. It's weird that Granlund has almost identical stats to Eriksson (9 goals, 9 assists for Granlund and 9 goals 12 assists for Eriksson). I'm sure the salary differences have been the reason why Eriksson has stayed in for as long as he did. But I'm not going to slag Eriksson any further. His offensive game is not where it used to be, but he's made up for it somewhat with his defensive game. He's also one of the fittest players on the team.

 

Gudbranson is weird. He has "size" which people loved, but clearly he's struggling in the newer NHL, like a lot of bigger defenseman. The reason Gudbranson was signed was for the potential "toughness" factor. He has a combination of skating (he's slowish, but decent for a big guy), leadership, toughness that no one else in the roster/system has. Like Tanev, the Canucks wish that he'd have more offensive contribution. But Gudbranson also seems like a guy that makes a ton of mistakes - Tanev has too, recently. The fact is, no one is perfect. Remember Hutton? The guy that sucked last year? Look how good he has become. Can we just "give up" on players? NO. Until there's other players that can replace them, we don't have much of a choice.

 

To acquire players, you need to trade or sign. Someone like Byfuglien would be nice, but Winnipeg's not going to trade him. My point is, to get the high calibre guys, it's going to be a king's ransom - something that we can't afford to do, not while we are in our youth movement. We can overpay for free agent players, but we could end up getting guys like Eriksson. (Sorry Eriksson) - or Lucic. BTW Eriksson >>>>> Lucic for the exact same salary.

 

Assembling a team is not as easy as you are writing it. Like most people, you're relying your information on hindsight.

Well... there's a lot to digest here. You make some points, but not many.

 

Schaller was a mistake. Benning deserves to be criticzed for getting this wrong. It was bemoaned when it was announced. It was bemoaned at training camp when Schaller "didn't show up". And it's bemoaned now when you realize Schaller has played 35 games with the Canucks and has scored 0 times and had 5 assists. He'll be lucky if he scores two goals this year. But going into the offseason, the numbers suggested that signing him was a bad idea. At last year's trade deadline, the Canucks acquired Tyler Motte (and Jussi Jokinen) for Thomas Vanek (a much maligned deal, if I say so myself). He had 1 NHL game left before being waiver eligible going into the 2018-2019 season. He looked like a guy who needed a spot on the NHL team (or else WHY TRADE FOR HIM?!?). Then you have Sam Gagner and asking yourself (where does he go). Follow that up with a waiver eligible Nikolay Goldobin (who needs a spot), an incoming Elias Pettersson (who was basically guaranteed an NHL spot based on his play last season), and then there were question marks about where Adam Gaudette should play and all of that adds up to it being a mistake from the get go. Add in the other new additions of Jay Beagle and Antoine Roussel and that's a lot of bodies for the bottom six. And then, going into training camp last season, you have Darren Archibald, Brendan Gaunce, Reid Boucher, and Tanner Kero sort of fighting it out too and that's a whole lot of "bottom six forwards". (Obviously, hindsight is 20/20 and Archie has since been traded & Boucher/Kero/Gaunce haven't got much more than a sniff in the NHL this season) but you can see why it was a mistake going into July 1 to sign Schaller. His roster spot could have easily been taken by one of the other guys or a PTO turned 1 year contract guy (think Jack Skille a few years ago) and we wouldn't really be complaining. But because Schaller is on a multi year deal and making way more than the minimum, it makes him a burden. If he didn't have his contract, Schaller would be waived. There's no doubt in my mind about it. So yes, the Schaller was a mistake from the beginning.

 

And yes, Schaller is on the roster. He's the 23rd man on a 23 man roster. That's a bad spot for a July 1st signing to be in half way through the first season of a MULTI YEAR DEAL.

 

I think the issue with Granlund is that, though he has a little offensive knack, it doesn't make up for the fact that he's so "meh" all over the place. He's not a great goal scorer, he's not a good playmaker, he's not a good defender, he's not good in the face off circle, he's just not that good. Add in that he only had 8 goals last season (in 53 games, mind you) and had 6 goals the year before his big "19 goal year" and it doesn't bode well for his future on the Canucks. He could get to 12-15 goals by the end of the season but that's not good enough for a third line winger. For comparison sake to the Canucks, the Canadiens already have 9 players on there roster to have scored 10 or more goals. The Canucks have 4. Granlund and Eriksson will push it over to 6 soon (both players have 9 goals a piece). Followed by Baertschi (who has 8 goals this year). But that's still not good enough. If Granlund was in Schaller's spot as the 23rd man who was rotating into the lineup regularly when there's injuries/players playing poorly -- I'd be happy with it. But the fact that he's a regular bothers me. He's just prone to a lot of mistakes that he shouldn't be making at this stage in his career.

 

Every player who hasn't played in the NHL is an unproven player. So what? It's true, MacEwen could be Archibald 2.0. The difference between MacEwen and Archibald is, well, there's A LOT of differences. MacEwen is doing things at 22 that Archibald never did. For starters, MacEwen is a top line AHL player at 22. He's already got 36 points in 46 games and MacEwen is on pace for 25 goals in the AHL this year. When Archibald was 22, he was splitting time between the ECHL and AHL. Archie could barely stay in the AHL, let alone be on the verge of making the NHL. Then there's the fact that MacEwen is 6'5" whereas Archibald is 6'2", that's a sizeable difference when it comes to the NHL. And did I mention MacEwen is fast for his frame? Like, when you watch him, you forget that MacEwen is 6'5"... he's a fast 6'5" player who uses his body well. And MacEwen's skating is getting better with each game. Archie's skating has always been an issue and a reason he could never make the full jump. But I think what bothers me is that I hear two things from this management group "we want to get younger" and "we want size and skill"... MacEwen fits both categories. He's young, has size, and is skilled. He deserves a chance and because ownership won't let management waive Schaller this season, he's going to be delayed in getting some NHL minutes. NHL time will definitely do wonders for his development this summer and show MacEwen what he needs to work on when going into next year's training camp. These games can really help the long term development of a player. You saw it with Demko, and we've seen it with other players, but I think dismissing MacEwen because he hasn't played an NHL game is wrong. He should be getting a stretch of NHL games and he's, at the very least, a more intriguing option both short and long term over Granlund/Schaller at the moment. Same can be said about Jasek, but I digress.

 

I think we agree on Gaudette so I won't comment. My thinking is more along the lines of what to do next year about Gaudette. Sutter is an offensive black hole and isn't very great defensively. Gaudette got overly sheltered this season in Vancouver. Sure, Sutter has been injured and getting back to game speed but he's not great. And there's roster redundancy with Beagle and Sutter. You don't need both of them. I'd like to see Sutter dealt this offseason, get some value for him before his deal expires. I guess the question becomes -- how many games does Adam Gaudette need to be a PPG AHL player to prove he's an NHLer? I saw a guy who kept his own in the NHL while he was on the Canucks. Again, it's a shame he's not on the Canucks now because I think Gaudette makes the Canucks better (over, say, Sutter) BUT again -- I think we also agree that Gaudette spending the rest of the year in Utica is good. I just don't see how another year in Utica after this one does Gaudette any good. And to get Gaudette into the NHL means this team must trade Sutter. Don't see a way around it... and that's the point I was making in my first post.

 

I actually have no idea why Jasek doesn't play more in Utica. JD Burke wrote a great article about it for The Athletic. The stats say Jasek is a good player at the AHL level yet he keeps getting scratched. It's really perplexing. I think he just got lumped into a group because he was an AHL rookie with the others though he exploded onto the scene late last season with 7 points in 6 games. And this year he's got 18 points in 36 games. Dahlen has 23 points in 44 games. If Jasek hadn't gotten injured/scratched earlier in the season, and was also played 44 games much like Dahlen, it's same to assume Jasek would have MORE points than Dahlen. Dahlen is also a -13. Jasek is a +6. Jasek actually has the highest +/- rating for a forward this season in Utica. There's something there with Jasek. And you should watch him play, he's fun to watch.

 

Eriksson is solid defensively, I give him that. But his NMC means that he can't even be waived if the Canucks wanted to do it. Truth is, I don't absolutely hate Eriksson, I just knew back when he was signed that the contract wasn't worth it. And it isn't worth it now. It's just a shame he regressed so fast. Because his contract reverts to an NTC after this season, there's a VERY good chance the Canucks keep him around until expansion draft in hopes of getting him picked. NTC's arent mandatory expansion protected, so it gives the Canucks options at that point. I just see Eriksson being squeezed out of the lineup in two years. A buyout is probably best for all parties. We'll see what happens.

 

I agree with you on Gudbranson... but I wouldn't want to see him in playoff hockey. He's currently playing like a guy who'd cost you a series with some costly defensive plays. I just don't him becoming a "playoff beast". His defensive gaps are glaring almost every game and he's become an easy scapegoat because he's been bad. He's also been a black hole for everybody he's paired with. Hutton sucked with Gudbranson but now is great with Stecher. Tanev is bad with Gudbranson. Edler wasn't good. Pouliot (yikes!) is even worse. Hutton got better this year because he got in shape. He lost some fat, trimmed up, and it shows. He's a Green success story. Goldy will probably be Green's success story next year. But given Guddy's age and experience (he's played in 441 NHL games and 13 playoff games), I don't see him improving. He is what he is. He's not going to change. The sad thing is, he'd have been great playing Mid 2000's hockey. But his playing style is a relic of the past. He's not fast enough and it shows. It truly sucks. Like I said, he seems like a good guy -- he's just cringe to watch playing hockey at the moment.

 

To get players you acquire them but more importantly you draft and develop them. Or in MacEwen's case, sign and develop them as an undrafted UFA. And that's the point I've made. Getting guys like MacEwen, Jasek, Gaudette, Dahlen, Lind, etc into the lineup is very important for the health of the franchise. That's where you go from bad to good to great as an NHL team. It's the ability to find, develop, and integrate players into the lineup. And then you sign/trade for guys to fill out the roster. It's why trades like a 2nd for Baertschi, Carcone for Leivo are heralded as wins. The assets weren't huge to get impact NHL guys. Trading for a big fish only works when you're close to contending. It doesn't work when you're at the bottom trying to crawl your way to the top. Getting a Byfuglien would be amazing but there's also 30 other NHL teams who'd love to have him too. Finding the next Byfuglien is what's important to an organization long term. I'd much rather develop our own Byfuglien who plays in Vancouver during the prime years of the Pettersson/Horvat/Boeser era over trading for/signing an aging and over the hill Byfuglien who is a decade past his prime. I think the point is, honestly, in today's NHL -- overpaying for Vets isn't worth it unless they're in there mid twenties. I think the days of your Eriksson/Lucic early 30 megadeals are winding down. Young players want to be paid now rather than later and teams know this.

 

And I agree, Eriksson > Lucic all day, every day.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Quantum said:

And I agree, Eriksson > Lucic all day, every day.

That ain't much of a bar to beat.  Green coming out of retirement and lacing up the skates might still be better than Lucic right now.

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7 hours ago, chilliwiggins said:

agreed but geez the guy is still being dressed

Hard not to respect guys like Weber from Canucks' seasons gone past. I recall Weber being really brutal on most nights, but he's still giving er'.

As are Kevin Connaughton and Taylor Fedun.

How did Gustav Forsling look last night?

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6 hours ago, therodigy said:

I was thinking the same thing. Horvat and Virtanent play OT together, and they play quite well together. Now that I think of it, I recall many games where JV starts with Sutter and then ends up playing numerous shifts or finishing games with BoHo anyways. Why not just... I don't know... keep them together? lol

The best Horvat line I've seen this season was Roussel - Bo - JV

but that was only one game - but it looked real gudd.

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2 hours ago, apollo said:

Biega should be getting 20 minutes per game minimum. That is all. 

For like 2 games then he needs to go back to the A and return to be an animal for the Canucks for another two games.

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11 hours ago, EP Phone Home said:

As much as it sucks to see us drop 4/5 games and should’ve had a better fate on the road trip. But here we are, in the midst of a playoff race. Yet we are 5 points out of last in the conference. At the beginning of the year if you told me that we would be fighting for the last two wild card spots yet still in the running for a top 5 pick, I’d call you wakko for Kakko. Playoff hopefuls! Tankers! This is an amazing race for both sides, and I couldn’t be happier! That and it’s friday and the boys are back in town!

09600664-C216-421A-AE45-5B16E2A571A4.gif

The 'parity' in the Western conference is underwhelming - but it does provide the best of both worlds.

I guess this is what happens when teams start spending 40 plus million dollars on four players and need to fill out a roster with 'character' and 'intangibles'

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Did the team fly back home last night? I just saw Pouliot and Virtanen at Pacific Center.

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8 minutes ago, buddyguy said:

Did the team fly back home last night? I just saw Pouliot and Virtanen at Pacific Center.

Yeah end of road trip they usually come back right after the game. 

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3 hours ago, apollo said:

Biega should be getting 20 minutes per game minimum. That is all. 

For all of the trouble we've been having on the blueline, that's a no brainer. A defenseman scored from the point, what? ::D

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14 hours ago, theo5789 said:

People that complain about Guddy's +/- (and Juolevi in the AHL), do you support Pouliot? Just curious.

I think countless posts should have made it pretty clear that Guddy's game is not solely assessed by the + / -. I would like to emphasize that it's only one metric. In addition you have to consider that Guddy played most of the games on the 2nd pairing while Pouliot played most of the games on the 3rd. Guddy was mostly overmatched on the 2nd pairing, whereas Pouliot faced weaker forward lines playing on the 3rd pairing. Might be an explanation for the difference in +/ between Pouliot and Gudbranson.

 

I think it's obvious that both of them have no future on the canucks roster.

Pouliot's contract won't be extended. Gudbranson will be replaced by Nikita Tryamkin. From what I understood in the Tryamkin thread he agreed to terminate his contract with Avto. I expect him to be back next season.

 

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14 hours ago, Tyndall2 said:

We probably wouldn't be talking about all these defensive faults if our forwards could bury at least one of their opportunities a game.  Every game on this trip could have been won had our players scored when they had clear cut opportunities, including the penalty shot miss by Horvat and Petey's break away last night.  I know that players don't score on every opportunity but with any luck these games would have had different results.  Could just be the lack of confidence or the Canuck's bad luck to which the officials contribute.  

Fully agree with your perspective.

Top priority for the Canucks should have adding a high end scoring winger to the roster.

Imagine the impact a winger like Skinner would have on Petterson's wing for the Canucks overall performance.

Once you add such a winger to the top six you can put Boeser back to Horvats' line.

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14 hours ago, NUCKER67 said:

Oh yeah, forgot all about little Troy Stecher. Wow, a +17! I'm surprised by this, but he's a firecracker. Good on him.

 

I was just pointing out how much more reliable a Dman Edler is compared to Hutton. Tanev gets a lot of praise, and sometimes he certainly deserves it, but he makes some glaring errors as well. Sometimes when he has the puck on his stick, you can see him get awkward and then he panics to deke a player or get a shot off. Very good Dman, but shaky on offence. Edler and Tanev have faced the other teams' best lines, so I'll cut them some slack.  

 

I'm looking forward to Hughes.

 

And Boeser is better than Horvat 

Guddy - 19

Hutton - 11

Both played together for most of the games on the 2nd pairing. Reason for Hutton's - 11 might be the D -partner. Have you ever thought about this possibility. Besides that I do agree with you that Edler has played a terrific defensive game in this season.

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1 hour ago, Wolfgang Durst said:

I think countless posts should have made it pretty clear that Guddy's game is not solely assessed by the + / -. I would like to emphasize that it's only one metric. In addition you have to consider that Guddy played most of the games on the 2nd pairing while Pouliot played most of the games on the 3rd. Guddy was mostly overmatched on the 2nd pairing, whereas Pouliot faced weaker forward lines playing on the 3rd pairing. Might be an explanation for the difference in +/ between Pouliot and Gudbranson.

 

I think it's obvious that both of them have no future on the canucks roster.

Pouliot's contract won't be extended. Gudbranson will be replaced by Nikita Tryamkin. From what I understood in the Tryamkin thread he agreed to terminate his contract with Avto. I expect him to be back next season.

 

Pouliot played 1st pairing with Tanev for a good stretch earlier in the season, when Edler was injured in late October - early November. What’s remarkable, he’s still a +2, despite playing in late situations when the goalie was pulled. He’s second amongst defensemen on the team in corsi and in PDO.

 

He might turnover the puck over a ton (only second to Tanev), but he’s also third in takeaways.

Edited by shiznak

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