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Short Term Pain for Long Term Gain

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Disclaimer: I will endeavour to post this without the use of profanity or lewd lingo. Apparently the mods are finicky about that sort of thing.:towel:

 

I posted on this back in around '08 or '09. We're going to be a contender very soon, but it's still going to require a modicum of patience on both fans' and management's parts. As exciting as it would be to see this team in the playoffs this year, I'd rather reference a quote from Clark Gable in Gone With The Wind.

 

I have been a fan since just prior to the Russian Rocket's NHL debut, so I have experienced both great expectations and sheer horrific disappointment. That '94 season scarred me to the point where I quit watching hockey for a few years amid distractions from the female gender as well as athletics. I must admit, I never appreciated Trevor Linden as a player or a person until his 2002 return. But I digress.

 

I'm tired of the mediocrity. We can talk about the "Detroit Model" or the "Boston Model," but ultimately, there's only one Boston Bruins and only one Detroit Red Wings. Replicating past successes when the game itself (thanks to the guys running the joint since '93) changes every 5 minutes would be ridiculous at this point. Basically you build the best possible team you have with a combination of speed, skill, grit, defense and goaltending and hope the NHL doesn't advise the refs to call your games counter to your strengths. Rigged? Who said that? Me? I would never....

 

The bottom line is, if we have to stink the joint out as every team that has ultimately won the big prize has done in the past quarter-century, so be it. Maybe that formula didn't work for the Leafs until recently, but they seem to be the exception and not the rule. No team has ever won the cup recently without grabbing that elusive Top 3 Draft Pick. It looks like we got extremely lucky with Elias, but in the end, we're not the Detroit Red Wings of the 90s. No team is. The only sure-fire way to win a Cup is to stock up on high draft picks, as in Top 3. Name one team without a First Overall Draft Pick that has won the Cup lately. It doesn't happen. 

 

If we expect to win it all at some point, we can't expect mediocrity indefinitely. As deep as this upcoming draft may be, if the team that drafts Quinn's little brother has decent management, they'll win the cup in the next 5 years. Count on it. 

 

Anyone who knows Canucks' history will tell you that you can't just stink badly enough to finish out of the playoffs. At some point, you have to hit rock bottom before you can make your way back up again. Over nearly 50 years, we've been seeped in mediocrity. Just bad enough to miss or make the playoffs by a hair but never good enough to make a run. How many First Overall Draft Picks have we had since 1970? Oh right. 

 

We're going to be a great team soon if we do this right. I said this back in 2007/08 too. But if we think we're going to replicate what the Wings did in the 90s, we're kidding ourselves. Successful teams have a Bust-Boom-Bust Cycle. My fear is that this team is living in the 1990s and refuses to learn from over 40 years of past mistakes. Trevor, why did you have to leave?

trevor_linden_gallery_23.jpg

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7 minutes ago, surfer53 said:

Disclaimer: I will endeavour to post this without the use of profanity or lewd lingo. Apparently the mods are finicky about that sort of thing.:towel:

 

I posted on this back in around '08 or '09. We're going to be a contender very soon, but it's still going to require a modicum of patience on both fans' and management's parts. As exciting as it would be to see this team in the playoffs this year, I'd rather reference a quote from Clark Gable in Gone With The Wind.

 

I have been a fan since just prior to the Russian Rocket's NHL debut, so I have experienced both great expectations and sheer horrific disappointment. That '94 season scarred me to the point where I quit watching hockey for a few years amid distractions from the female gender as well as athletics. I must admit, I never appreciated Trevor Linden as a player or a person until his 2002 return. But I digress.

 

I'm tired of the mediocrity. We can talk about the "Detroit Model" or the "Boston Model," but ultimately, there's only one Boston Bruins and only one Detroit Red Wings. Replicating past successes when the game itself (thanks to the guys running the joint since '93) changes every 5 minutes would be ridiculous at this point. Basically you build the best possible team you have with a combination of speed, skill, grit, defense and goaltending and hope the NHL doesn't advise the refs to call your games counter to your strengths. Rigged? Who said that? Me? I would never....

 

The bottom line is, if we have to stink the joint out as every team that has ultimately won the big prize has done in the past quarter-century, so be it. Maybe that formula didn't work for the Leafs until recently, but they seem to be the exception and not the rule. No team has ever won the cup recently without grabbing that elusive Top 3 Draft Pick. It looks like we got extremely lucky with Elias, but in the end, we're not the Detroit Red Wings of the 90s. No team is. The only sure-fire way to win a Cup is to stock up on high draft picks, as in Top 3. Name one team without a First Overall Draft Pick that has won the Cup lately. It doesn't happen. 

 

If we expect to win it all at some point, we can't expect mediocrity indefinitely. As deep as this upcoming draft may be, if the team that drafts Quinn's little brother has decent management, they'll win the cup in the next 5 years. Count on it. 

 

Anyone who knows Canucks' history will tell you that you can't just stink badly enough to finish out of the playoffs. At some point, you have to hit rock bottom before you can make your way back up again. Over nearly 50 years, we've been seeped in mediocrity. Just bad enough to miss or make the playoffs by a hair but never good enough to make a run. How many First Overall Draft Picks have we had since 1970? Oh right. 

 

We're going to be a great team soon if we do this right. I said this back in 2007/08 too. But if we think we're going to replicate what the Wings did in the 90s, we're kidding ourselves. Successful teams have a Bust-Boom-Bust Cycle. My fear is that this team is living in the 1990s and refuses to learn from over 40 years of past mistakes. Trevor, why did you have to leave?

trevor_linden_gallery_23.jpg

LA during their run. Boston. 2000s Red Wings. New Jersey. 

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1 minute ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

The key player to watch will be Hughes. 

 

All the EPs in the world won't matter if the backend is blech.

Exactly.

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To be fair, EP is definitely equal quality to your average No. 1 pick. But yeah, Hughes could definitely propel us into contenders in a few years if he's actually as good as some say he is. Him plus Demko could be the final touches on our renaissance.

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1 minute ago, -AJ- said:

To be fair, EP is definitely equal quality to your average No. 1 pick. But yeah, Hughes could definitely propel us into contenders in a few years if he's actually as good as some say he is. Him plus Demko could be the final touches on our renaissance.

That's a fair comment. But 3 guys don't make a team. 

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9 minutes ago, surfer53 said:

That's a fair comment. But 3 guys don't make a team. 

You're right, hence why it's good we have others like Boeser, Horvat and others who can play roles like Virtanen, Roussel and Motte. If Hughes and Demko can step up and become a No. 1 defenseman and star goaltender, I think we have all the pieces (as they continue to grow and mature, not right now) to be a top team. Our best players are all young now and will likely get even better in the next few years. Pair that with a bonafide young top defenseman and great young starting netminder and I think we can be very good in the coming years.

 

EDIT: One caveat--our defense might still be too weak outside of Hughes, unless Edler is good until he's 40 or something.

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 So the only way to win the Cup is to score multiple top-3 draft picks. And the top 3 draft picks are all lottery tickets, requiring a great deal of luck to acquire, even if the team is tanked into a swamp, providing putrid entertainment for years. Meaning that the only way to win the Cup is to get very lucky.

 

Somewhat true, but I don't entirely agree. I would, however agree that in a salary cap world, the ingredients of a Cup winning team include a generous portion of young top quality homegrown talent, because you can fit so much more firepower under the cap that way than you can from trades or UFA signings.

 

But it really doesn't matter if you draft them in the top 3, or 5th like Petterson or mid-20s like Brock. We are very fortunate to have a GM who doesn't need to draft top-3 to acquire that quality of talent.

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1 hour ago, surfer53 said:

 

If we expect to win it all at some point, we can't expect mediocrity indefinitely. As deep as this upcoming draft may be, if the team that drafts Quinn's little brother has decent management, they'll win the cup in the next 5 years. Count on it. 

 

I think that our evaluation of Jack Hughes might be a bit different.  

 

To me he's one notch below Jack Eichel when it comes to their respective draft prospect statuses coming into the NHL.  

 

Anyways, I hear you :) 

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You can argue the same thing for teams without Norris calibre d-men. 

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7 hours ago, surfer53 said:

Disclaimer: I will endeavour to post this without the use of profanity or lewd lingo. Apparently the mods are finicky about that sort of thing.:towel:

 

I posted on this back in around '08 or '09. We're going to be a contender very soon, but it's still going to require a modicum of patience on both fans' and management's parts. As exciting as it would be to see this team in the playoffs this year, I'd rather reference a quote from Clark Gable in Gone With The Wind.

 

I have been a fan since just prior to the Russian Rocket's NHL debut, so I have experienced both great expectations and sheer horrific disappointment. That '94 season scarred me to the point where I quit watching hockey for a few years amid distractions from the female gender as well as athletics. I must admit, I never appreciated Trevor Linden as a player or a person until his 2002 return. But I digress.

 

I'm tired of the mediocrity. We can talk about the "Detroit Model" or the "Boston Model," but ultimately, there's only one Boston Bruins and only one Detroit Red Wings. Replicating past successes when the game itself (thanks to the guys running the joint since '93) changes every 5 minutes would be ridiculous at this point. Basically you build the best possible team you have with a combination of speed, skill, grit, defense and goaltending and hope the NHL doesn't advise the refs to call your games counter to your strengths. Rigged? Who said that? Me? I would never....

 

The bottom line is, if we have to stink the joint out as every team that has ultimately won the big prize has done in the past quarter-century, so be it. Maybe that formula didn't work for the Leafs until recently, but they seem to be the exception and not the rule. No team has ever won the cup recently without grabbing that elusive Top 3 Draft Pick. It looks like we got extremely lucky with Elias, but in the end, we're not the Detroit Red Wings of the 90s. No team is. The only sure-fire way to win a Cup is to stock up on high draft picks, as in Top 3. Name one team without a First Overall Draft Pick that has won the Cup lately. It doesn't happen. 

 

If we expect to win it all at some point, we can't expect mediocrity indefinitely. As deep as this upcoming draft may be, if the team that drafts Quinn's little brother has decent management, they'll win the cup in the next 5 years. Count on it. 

 

Anyone who knows Canucks' history will tell you that you can't just stink badly enough to finish out of the playoffs. At some point, you have to hit rock bottom before you can make your way back up again. Over nearly 50 years, we've been seeped in mediocrity. Just bad enough to miss or make the playoffs by a hair but never good enough to make a run. How many First Overall Draft Picks have we had since 1970? Oh right. 

 

We're going to be a great team soon if we do this right. I said this back in 2007/08 too. But if we think we're going to replicate what the Wings did in the 90s, we're kidding ourselves. Successful teams have a Bust-Boom-Bust Cycle. My fear is that this team is living in the 1990s and refuses to learn from over 40 years of past mistakes. Trevor, why did you have to leave?

trevor_linden_gallery_23.jpg

No thanks

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10 hours ago, stawns said:

We're going to be a great team soon if we do this right. I said this back in 2007/08 too. But if we think we're going to replicate what the Wings did in the 90s, we're kidding ourselves. Successful teams have a Bust-Boom-Bust Cycle. My fear is that this team is living in the 1990s and refuses to learn from over 40 years of past mistakes. Trevor, why did you have to leave?

The cycle thing is easy to find, so is the mediocrity syndrome.

I was the same as you, much more impressed by Linden after his return.

BUT

I am glad he quit because I think and hope he was the one refusing to trade vets.

18 hours ago, -AJ- said:

You're right, hence why it's good we have others like Boeser, Horvat and others who can play roles like Virtanen, Roussel and Motte. If Hughes and Demko can step up and become a No. 1 defenseman and star goaltender, I think we have all the pieces (as they continue to grow and mature, not right now) to be a top team. Our best players are all young now and will likely get even better in the next few years. Pair that with a bonafide young top defenseman and great young starting netminder and I think we can be very good in the coming years.

 

EDIT: One caveat--our defense might still be too weak outside of Hughes, unless Edler is good until he's 40 or something.

Roussel is a concussion or two from joining Sven.

 

Edler and his re-signing, who else, a younger dman, could the Canucks get for 5+ mil a season?

 

Ya, ya I heard the "mentor and leadership" thing, so far the team signed Sutter, Roussel, Eriksson, Gudbranson, Beagle and already have Tanev all for "mentoring and leadership" roles. Seems the young guys are slow learners or something.

 

How about a 29 yr old Gardiner for 6.5 mil for 6 years? IMO that would be stupid, 4 years maybe, there will be many options including trading Tanev to Buffalo, TO or maybe even Montreal or Ottawa, he would waive his clause but Buffalo and TO have the best assets for a deal. 

 

IMO the CBA year looms huge, that year IMO should/could be the last year of rebuilding through the draft (top 7 picks) and the start of polishing, the team should/would be ready as serious playoff contenders if not as favourites in 2020/2021, the CBA year. If there was a season long disruption or even a partial one, the past years of futility could result in an additional top pick under the existing or new draft rules.

The "pain", move some vets, to make room and for future draft picks/assets this gives rookies a year to learn the NHL and Horvat/Boeser bigger leadership roles.

Just 15 months of pain for up to 150 months of gain. Feb 25 th 2019 to April 2020 and it is done, what is15 months when fans have been watching for 48 or more of re-whatevering.

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3 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said:

How about a 29 yr old Gardiner for 6.5 mil for 6 years? IMO that would be stupid, 4 years maybe, there will be many options including trading Tanev to Buffalo, TO or maybe even Montreal or Ottawa, he would waive his clause but Buffalo and TO have the best assets for a deal. 

 

What? 

:wacko:

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This is one thing I’ve always had a hard time with in US pro sports. That you potentially get rewarded for losing by getting awarded with a high draft pick. In Europe you get relegated dropping down the league system. 

 

Also that the players have no choice and just get stuck with a team they may have no desire playing for. 

 

I get that it evens it all out and makes the league more competitive but it still feels wrong somehow. That you have to lose in order to win. 

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23 hours ago, surfer53 said:

Disclaimer: I will endeavour to post this without the use of profanity or lewd lingo. Apparently the mods are finicky about that sort of thing.:towel:

 

I posted on this back in around '08 or '09. We're going to be a contender very soon, but it's still going to require a modicum of patience on both fans' and management's parts. As exciting as it would be to see this team in the playoffs this year, I'd rather reference a quote from Clark Gable in Gone With The Wind.

 

I have been a fan since just prior to the Russian Rocket's NHL debut, so I have experienced both great expectations and sheer horrific disappointment. That '94 season scarred me to the point where I quit watching hockey for a few years amid distractions from the female gender as well as athletics. I must admit, I never appreciated Trevor Linden as a player or a person until his 2002 return. But I digress.

 

I'm tired of the mediocrity. We can talk about the "Detroit Model" or the "Boston Model," but ultimately, there's only one Boston Bruins and only one Detroit Red Wings. Replicating past successes when the game itself (thanks to the guys running the joint since '93) changes every 5 minutes would be ridiculous at this point. Basically you build the best possible team you have with a combination of speed, skill, grit, defense and goaltending and hope the NHL doesn't advise the refs to call your games counter to your strengths. Rigged? Who said that? Me? I would never....

 

The bottom line is, if we have to stink the joint out as every team that has ultimately won the big prize has done in the past quarter-century, so be it. Maybe that formula didn't work for the Leafs until recently, but they seem to be the exception and not the rule. No team has ever won the cup recently without grabbing that elusive Top 3 Draft Pick. It looks like we got extremely lucky with Elias, but in the end, we're not the Detroit Red Wings of the 90s. No team is. The only sure-fire way to win a Cup is to stock up on high draft picks, as in Top 3. Name one team without a First Overall Draft Pick that has won the Cup lately. It doesn't happen. 

 

If we expect to win it all at some point, we can't expect mediocrity indefinitely. As deep as this upcoming draft may be, if the team that drafts Quinn's little brother has decent management, they'll win the cup in the next 5 years. Count on it. 

 

Anyone who knows Canucks' history will tell you that you can't just stink badly enough to finish out of the playoffs. At some point, you have to hit rock bottom before you can make your way back up again. Over nearly 50 years, we've been seeped in mediocrity. Just bad enough to miss or make the playoffs by a hair but never good enough to make a run. How many First Overall Draft Picks have we had since 1970? Oh right. 

 

We're going to be a great team soon if we do this right. I said this back in 2007/08 too. But if we think we're going to replicate what the Wings did in the 90s, we're kidding ourselves. Successful teams have a Bust-Boom-Bust Cycle. My fear is that this team is living in the 1990s and refuses to learn from over 40 years of past mistakes. Trevor, why did you have to leave?

trevor_linden_gallery_23.jpg

I think you forgot one major new aspect called a 

"lottery ball" 

Before that finishing last was for sure going to get the top pick but now, not so much as you know. Especially us and our luck!

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So you start off by arguing that you can’t mimic past systems of success (Detroit, Boston etc) and then you argue we should mimic success by drafting high?  :huh:

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On 2/9/2019 at 3:05 PM, Pears said:

LA during their run. Boston. 2000s Red Wings. New Jersey. 

Eh? Doughty was number 2 wasn’t he? That’s exactly what we need to get us a cup actually. An 18 year old doughty to develop with EP.

 

And Boston has no business winning, just look at how Chirelli ran the oilers into the ground and look at how Benning is running us into the ground. Emulating them was retarded, especially since we played them first hand in the final and knew how they won. I’ll never understand that. Instead of emulating la or Chicago or the pens, we went for the Boston model that fluked out big time. Makes zero sense. It would be like emulating the canes when they fluked theirs. Stupid. 

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12 hours ago, Tomatoes11 said:

Eh? Doughty was number 2 wasn’t he? That’s exactly what we need to get us a cup actually. An 18 year old doughty to develop with EP.

 

And Boston has no business winning, just look at how Chirelli ran the oilers into the ground and look at how Benning is running us into the ground. Emulating them was retarded, especially since we played them first hand in the final and knew how they won. I’ll never understand that. Instead of emulating la or Chicago or the pens, we went for the Boston model that fluked out big time. Makes zero sense. It would be like emulating the canes when they fluked theirs. Stupid. 

Nobody dislikes those Bruins more than I do, but they "fluked" their way right back to the Final a couple years later.  They were onto something.

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