The SNC-Lavalin Scandal - Jody Wilson-Raybould Refuses to leave Office

[Ryan Strome]

10 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

damn you, now I know I agree with Kenney on something. 

Let's see if he follows through with it. I hope so.

[aliboy]

I do not believe that she would be crossing the floor as she has already been kicked out of the Liberal party. She is now an independent and can do what she wants, to cross the floor I believe she would have to still be a Liberal. 

[JM_]

53 minutes ago, aliboy said:

I do not believe that she would be crossing the floor as she has already been kicked out of the Liberal party. She is now an independent and can do what she wants, to cross the floor I believe she would have to still be a Liberal. 

maybe not technically but certainly in spirit and in principle. She's said a number of times how she still supports the Liberal party ideas, her former colleagues, etc. so if she joins up with another party then she's actively working against much of what she just said she still supported. Makes her look flaky. 

[RUPERTKBD]

3 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

maybe not technically but certainly in spirit and in principle. She's said a number of times how she still supports the Liberal party ideas, her former colleagues, etc. so if she joins up with another party then she's actively working against much of what she just said she still supported. Makes her look flaky. 

I think she's in kind of a tough spot here. Obviously, the closest platform to the Liberals will be that of the Greens, but she has zero chance of landing her "Dream job" if she ran as one.

 

She might be able to swing a deal with Scheer, but that would make her "I did it for the good of the party" routine look pretty shallow.

[JM_]

3 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

I think she's in kind of a tough spot here. Obviously, the closest platform to the Liberals will be that of the Greens, but she has zero chance of landing her "Dream job" if she ran as one.

 

She might be able to swing a deal with Scheer, but that would make her "I did it for the good of the party" routine look pretty shallow.

Or run as an independent. She can speak all her truth that she wants to and vote how she wants to. 

 

Now that a number of prominent lawyers have written op-ed's on this, its pretty clear that JWR made a big blunder. So if her choice now is to run against things she claimed to support mere weeks ago then she's maybe better off not being in politics. 

[aliboy]

17 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

I think she's in kind of a tough spot here. Obviously, the closest platform to the Liberals will be that of the Greens, but she has zero chance of landing her "Dream job" if she ran as one.

 

She might be able to swing a deal with Scheer, but that would make her "I did it for the good of the party" routine look pretty shallow.

She'd give Scheer her list of indigenous rights demands and they'd still be laughing at her as she walked out the door.

[RUPERTKBD]

13 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

Or run as an independent. She can speak all her truth that she wants to and vote how she wants to. 

 

Now that a number of prominent lawyers have written op-ed's on this, its pretty clear that JWR made a big blunder. So if her choice now is to run against things she claimed to support mere weeks ago then she's maybe better off not being in politics. 

I don't think you can really look at it any other way.

 

The whole time this was going on, I was trying to figure out what the endgame was. Was the aim to bring Trudeau down and replace him? (Or have him replaced by someone you prefer?) If that's the case, it was like burning down your house, just to get your kid to move out. A colossal miscalculation.

 

2 minutes ago, aliboy said:

She'd give Scheer her list of indigenous rights demands and they'd still be laughing at her as she walked out the door.

I made a similar point several weeks ago. When someone suggested she was doing what she thought was "best for the party", I had to ask if she really honestly believe that an Andrew Scheer government was going to be better for Indigenous rights than a Justin Trudeau government.

 

The reality is, her actions (and those of Philpott) have pretty much ensured that We're going to find out.

[JM_]

4 hours ago, RUPERTKBD said:

I don't think you can really look at it any other way.

 

The whole time this was going on, I was trying to figure out what the endgame was. Was the aim to bring Trudeau down and replace him? (Or have him replaced by someone you prefer?) If that's the case, it was like burning down your house, just to get your kid to move out. A colossal miscalculation.

 

I made a similar point several weeks ago. When someone suggested she was doing what she thought was "best for the party", I had to ask if she really honestly believe that an Andrew Scheer government was going to be better for Indigenous rights than a Justin Trudeau government.

 

The reality is, her actions (and those of Philpott) have pretty much ensured that We're going to find out.

who the heck knows. Apparently it would have all been fine if he had "apologized". When JWR and Philpott sent out that gem I just shook my head. If thats all it would have taken for them to not blow up the party, why do it in the 1st place? its really baffling. Only think that makes sense to me is they have some pretty flawed ideas about how things work in government. 

[Ryan Strome]

On 4/24/2019 at 3:25 PM, Jimmy McGill said:

who the heck knows. Apparently it would have all been fine if he had "apologized". When JWR and Philpott sent out that gem I just shook my head. If thats all it would have taken for them to not blow up the party, why do it in the 1st place? its really baffling. Only think that makes sense to me is they have some pretty flawed ideas about how things work in government. 

Maybe just maybe they're two honest people and want to do the right thing and they also want expose how much corruption is governing the Country. I never questioned these two for a second, tremendous mp's. Believe it or not Jimmy I'm glad this whole story came to light in 2019.

[Rob_Zepp]

On 4/24/2019 at 9:55 AM, RUPERTKBD said:

I think she's in kind of a tough spot here. Obviously, the closest platform to the Liberals will be that of the Greens, but she has zero chance of landing her "Dream job" if she ran as one.

 

She might be able to swing a deal with Scheer, but that would make her "I did it for the good of the party" routine look pretty shallow.

When Trudeau is thrown to the mat in the election, she can return as the puppets he controls will sneak back into their holes and the LPC can find a decent leader who isn't trying to play some bizarre social engineering experiments with a real country and get back to being a centrist party that really is about the democratic process.   Perhaps she can even lead that party.

[JM_]

13 hours ago, Ryan Strome said:

Maybe just maybe they're two honest people and want to do the right thing and they also want expose how much corruption is governing the Country. I never questioned these two for a second, tremendous mp's. Believe it or not Jimmy I'm glad this whole story came to light in 2019.

I think they all had honest intentions.

 

The narrative that there has to be corruption is blown out of the water by the fact that JWR would have been satisfied with an apology. How much corruption could there have been in that case? there doesn't have to be misdeeds for this situation to occur, just a whole lot of misunderstanding of the people involved and maybe some people about their jobs. 

 

People in high government posts lobby for their portfolio and/or their particular areas of the country all the time. If thats now "corrupt" then we're in big trouble. 

 

Its come out that Scheer met in private with oil exec's at a recent private conference. If you want to stop the relationship between government and business, then what do you think of this?

 

According to a Globe and Mail report, Scheer and other top Tories met with oil industry executives at the Azuridge Estate Hotel just outside of Calgary on April 11. They gathered to share ideas about campaign strategies including using independent interest groups to rally the Conservative base.

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2019/04/26/andrew-scheer-oil-executives_a_23717559/

[RUPERTKBD]

14 hours ago, Ryan Strome said:

Maybe just maybe they're two honest people and want to do the right thing and they also want expose how much corruption is governing the Country. I never questioned these two for a second, tremendous mp's. Believe it or not Jimmy I'm glad this whole story came to light in 2019.

I'm sure you are. It's pretty much handed the election to your boy Scheer.

 

I suppose if torpedoing your party's chances in the next election is "doing the right thing", then that's what they did. I'm sure the two of them can hold their heads high as AS dismantles what they accomplished and implements his own agenda.

 

"Yes, we screwed over our party and ensured the election of the party that shares little, if any of our values, but hey, we have to look at ourselves in the mirror every morning!"

[JM_]

6 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

I'm sure you are. It's pretty much handed the election to your boy Scheer.

 

I suppose if torpedoing your party's chances in the next election is "doing the right thing", then that's what they did. I'm sure the two of them can hold their heads high as AS dismantles what they accomplished and implements his own agenda.

 

"Yes, we screwed over our party and ensured the election of the party that shares little, if any of our values, but hey, we have to look at ourselves in the mirror every morning!"

I want to hear how its OK to plan election strategy with oil executives and former Koch lackeys, but trying to save SNC jobs is "corrupt". 

[Ryan Strome]

6 hours ago, RUPERTKBD said:

I'm sure you are. It's pretty much handed the election to your boy Scheer.

 

I suppose if torpedoing your party's chances in the next election is "doing the right thing", then that's what they did. I'm sure the two of them can hold their heads high as AS dismantles what they accomplished and implements his own agenda.

 

"Yes, we screwed over our party and ensured the election of the party that shares little, if any of our values, but hey, we have to look at ourselves in the mirror every morning!"

I'm suprised my boy @Jimmy McGill didn't pick up on what I was getting at.

[Ryan Strome]

7 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I think they all had honest intentions.

 

The narrative that there has to be corruption is blown out of the water by the fact that JWR would have been satisfied with an apology. How much corruption could there have been in that case? there doesn't have to be misdeeds for this situation to occur, just a whole lot of misunderstanding of the people involved and maybe some people about their jobs. 

 

People in high government posts lobby for their portfolio and/or their particular areas of the country all the time. If thats now "corrupt" then we're in big trouble. 

 

Its come out that Scheer met in private with oil exec's at a recent private conference. If you want to stop the relationship between government and business, then what do you think of this?

 

According to a Globe and Mail report, Scheer and other top Tories met with oil industry executives at the Azuridge Estate Hotel just outside of Calgary on April 11. They gathered to share ideas about campaign strategies including using independent interest groups to rally the Conservative base.

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2019/04/26/andrew-scheer-oil-executives_a_23717559/

Nothing wrong there. 

[Ryan Strome]

6 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I want to hear how its OK to plan election strategy with oil executives and former Koch lackeys, but trying to save SNC jobs is "corrupt". 

Firing a justice minister for doing the right thing is far different. Let's not forget JT has lied about this since day one. Quick question Jim, why didn't JT say he was saving jobs when the story broke?

[JM_]

13 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

Firing a justice minister for doing the right thing is far different. Let's not forget JT has lied about this since day one. Quick question Jim, why didn't JT say he was saving jobs when the story broke?

thats not what happened and you know its nowhere near that simplistic. And its far from clear that she "did the right thing."

 

he pretty much did once the story evolved a bit. No one blurts out all the info when the news "breaks" a story, no one knew at the time where the leaks were, etc. so they were in damage control. You can dislike Trudeau for that approach for sure, but it is the same one Harper used during Duffygate. I don't like it either but it is what it is. 

 

Looking back on this story after a blissful month of silence on it, it really is a faux-scandal. Some pretty smart and experienced folks have come forward to say JWR didn't understand her role. 

[JM_]

21 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

Nothing wrong there. 

Well, nothing illegal. Scheer actually went further than Trudeau, Justin didn't have the face time with SNC that Scheer did. 

 

If its fine to strategize with oil companies about elections, its fine to ask your MOJAG to look at legal options to save an engineering firm. Both entities have a right to try to save and create Canadian jobs. 

[Warhippy]

So we're back to the, it's ok cause it's him.  but no ok cause it's him statements.

 

Personally, anyone in government willing to meet with high profile corporations for the specific reason to collaborate on how to take down a government is wrong.

 

Pretending otherwise then saying it's bad what happened with SNC is just...ridiculous.  Especially when that same person meeting with corporate interests also met with the same SNC group to talk about how to defer the punishment 

[DonLever]

Like they say,  People have short memories, barely 2 months after the scandal hit, the latest Ipso poll show the gap between the Tories and Liberals narrowing.   At one time the gap was up to 10%, now only 4%.  Tories 36%, Libs, 32%.

 

https://globalnews.ca/news/5204965/liberals-conservatives-ipsos-poll-snc-lavalin/

 

More amazingly,  in BC the Libs lead the Tories by nearly 20 points - 42%-to 23%.   The "scandal" sure has not hurt the Libs at all in BC.