Drone incidents (Merged, keep them in here)

SabreFan1 · February 17, 2019

2 hours ago, CBH1926 said:

Using 3 million dollar missile to shoot down $300 drone, what a waste.

That's what happens when you give countries free stuff. They don't have to pay for it so they have no problem wasting it.

SabreFan1 · February 17, 2019

3 hours ago, Lancaster said:

Not sure how regulations would work... since it only target those who are more law abiding.

People out to create mischief will find a way. Drones purchased through untraceable means (2nd hand, with cash, etc), RFID chips could easily be altered, and I don't know the tech but its probably eventually (if not already), some drones could be flown by cellphones. So the authorities looking for someone using a cellphone.... good luck with finding the perpetrator.

15 hours ago, SabreFan1 said:

You can mess with anything they can do with what's basically a tiny quad-copter. There's no perfect solution. However if someone's name is attached to the device they are less likely to fly it where they shouldn't. If they are caught using a counterfeit chip? Fine them and confiscate their expensive drone. If they're caught again, remove their drone pilot's licence, fine them and confiscate their second expensive drone. Still flying after that. Keep taking their drones and keep raising their fines. Eventually they'll stop.

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Plus what if it's someone else borrows/steals your drone.... and they track down the ID of the drone, but not the individual.... when the airport/police/politicians wants blood and they only have your details, good luck proving your innocence or protecting your reputation.

You can use the same argument with guns. What do smart people do with their guns? They lock them away. What do smart people do immediately if their gun is missing? They report it to the police so if it's used in a crime, they are less likely to be a prime suspect. The same thing goes with a drone or a removable RFID tag on a drone. Lock your drone and tag up and if they go missing, report it to the police and the FAA.

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My solution would be having hunter drones equip with birdshot ammo that just blasts drones that are flying in a restricted area.

Why would you put a friggin' gun on a "hunter drone"? That's idiotic. How accurate of a shot do you think you could get off in the air using gunpowder? You may as well just ram the offending drone with yours. It would be safer and smarter and there's no risk of the birdshot pellets that missed falling back to earth and hurting someone.

Anyways, there are better ground based ideas in anti-drone technology. It's rumored that the US Secret Service have similar jamming guns for when they're protecting the president.

Lancaster · February 17, 2019

5 minutes ago, SabreFan1 said:

You can use the same argument with guns. What do smart people do with their guns? They lock them away. What do smart people do immediately if their gun is missing? They report it to the police so if it's used in a crime, they are less likely to be a prime suspect. The same thing goes with a drone or a removable RFID tag on a drone. Lock your drone and tag up and if they go missing, report it to the police and the FAA.

Why would you put a friggin' gun on a "hunter drone"? That's idiotic. How accurate of a shot do you think you could get off in the air using gunpowder? You may as well just ram the offending drone with yours. It would be safer and smarter and there's no risk of the birdshot pellets that missed falling back to earth and hurting someone.

Anyways, there are better ground based ideas in anti-drone technology. It's rumored that the US Secret Service have similar jamming guns for when they're protecting the president.

It's very sad when drones are treated the same as firearms. Always the stupid few ruining it for the rest of us.

In any case, having RFID being mandatory will create a huge grey/black market on current drones that doesn't have any chips on it.

Plus, if the chip is removed and is being controlled by a smartphone... how on earth can that person be found if there's a group of people around?

Lets just say I was sitting in the airport parking lot flying a drone without any RFID via my cellphone. First, how would you know it's me and not potentially a few dozen other people using their cell in the car? But say the police somehow figured out it me.... I just lock my phone.... good luck getting access to it without a warrant. Even if you go to court to get the warrant... what would it be based on? I was sitting my car at the airport parking lot using my phone? It was hard enough for the FBI to get access to the phones of actual terrorists, but for the court to allow the authorities to search every phone, tablet, laptop, or any other electronic device of anybody near any restricted area just because they may remotely be someone who could fly a drone there would be too extreme. Regulations/licensing doesn't stop people from committing crime.

The idea of using birdshot pellets on a drone is simply due to the potential height of the offending drone and how the ammo is only effective at ranges of 40 yards, thus no misfires taking someone out randomly. The wide spreading pattern will make it easier to hit the target. Some birdshot pellets are only like 1mm across.... I am in no way suggesting they use buckshots or slugs.... that would be way too dangerous. Nor am I suggesting they mount some mini-gun on it (although I have seen people do it on youtube).

If there is some ground base option, by all means.... I am just unaware of safe technology that can do that.... save for the video that you just posted.

SabreFan1 · February 17, 2019

7 hours ago, Lancaster said:

In any case, having RFID being mandatory will create a huge grey/black market on current drones that doesn't have any chips on it.

Of course it will. That doesn't mean that new ones shouldn't be created with a new active ID'ing technology. Also, the non-id kind would become more rare over time and thus more expensive as a result.

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Plus, if the chip is removed and is being controlled by a smartphone... how on earth can that person be found if there's a group of people around?

You make the drone so unless there's an id chip in it, it can turn on let alone fly. If you hack around that, you get heavily fined and your pilot licence is suspended/revoked.

As for finding the drone operator in a group of people, what in the h*ll do you think is going on that a drone operator needs to hide in a group of people? The biggest drone nuisance is flying them around passenger planes. People aren't doing it for nefarious reasons, they're just being reckless and stupid.

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Lets just say I was sitting in the airport parking lot flying a drone without any RFID via my cellphone. First, how would you know it's me and not potentially a few dozen other people using their cell in the car? But say the police somehow figured out it me.... I just lock my phone.... good luck getting access to it without a warrant. Even if you go to court to get the warrant... what would it be based on? I was sitting my car at the airport parking lot using my phone? It was hard enough for the FBI to get access to the phones of actual terrorists, but for the court to allow the authorities to search every phone, tablet, laptop, or any other electronic device of anybody near any restricted area just because they may remotely be someone who could fly a drone there would be too extreme.

All they would need is video of you operating the drone. You can get that with CCTV cameras that are already around airports. People have been convicted of crimes like murder without the police actually having the weapon used to commit it and even the body.

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Regulations/licensing doesn't stop people from committing crime.

Sure they do. I make sure that I get a fishing licence even if I only plan on fishing once or twice in the summer just because of the possible consequences even though the chances of one of NYS's few wildlife cops ever asking me to see it is extremely remote. Technically if you are caught fishing without a licence, they can confiscate your fishing gear and your vehicle. I've never heard of it happening once though, but since the chance is there, I buy the very cheap licence.

Same thing with drones. If you're caught flying it around an airport and they go medieval on a few people's butts and give them very expensive tickets and confiscate the drone then advertise through the media the consequences, it will serve as a deterrent for other dummies.

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The idea of using birdshot pellets on a drone is simply due to the potential height of the offending drone and how the ammo is only effective at ranges of 40 yards, thus no misfires taking someone out randomly. The wide spreading pattern will make it easier to hit the target. Some birdshot pellets are only like 1mm across.... I am in no way suggesting they use buckshots or slugs.... that would be way too dangerous. Nor am I suggesting they mount some mini-gun on it (although I have seen people do it on youtube). If there is some ground base option, by all means.... I am just unaware of safe technology that can do that.... save for the video that you just posted.

It's a ridiculously stupid idea especially around airports.

If you need to shoot down a drone, there are much safer ways that even a civilian can legally use. It's the solution from the first video.

$20 for 3 shells - https://www.budk.com/12-Gauge-Skynet-Drone-Defense--3-Pack-35975

Lancaster · February 17, 2019

6 hours ago, SabreFan1 said:

Of course it will. That doesn't mean that new ones shouldn't be created with a new active ID'ing technology. Also, the non-id kind would become more rare over time and thus more expensive as a result.

You make the drone so unless there's an id chip in it, it can turn on let alone fly. If you hack around that, you get heavily fined and your pilot licence is suspended/revoked.

As for finding the drone operator in a group of people, what in the h*ll do you think is going on that a drone operator needs to hide in a group of people? The biggest drone nuisance is flying them around passenger planes. People aren't doing it for nefarious reasons, they're just being reckless and stupid.

All they would need is video of you operating the drone. You can get that with CCTV cameras that are already around airports. People have been convicted of crimes like murder without the police actually having the weapon used to commit it and even the body.

Sure they do. I make sure that I get a fishing licence even if I only plan on fishing once or twice in the summer just because of the possible consequences even though the chances of one of NYS's few wildlife cops ever asking me to see it is extremely remote. Technically if you are caught fishing without a licence, they can confiscate your fishing gear and your vehicle. I've never heard of it happening once though, but since the chance is there, I buy the very cheap licence.

Same thing with drones. If you're caught flying it around an airport and they go medieval on a few people's butts and give them very expensive tickets and confiscate the drone then advertise through the media the consequences, it will serve as a deterrent for other dummies.

It's a ridiculously stupid idea especially around airports.

If you need to shoot down a drone, there are much safer ways that even a civilian can legally use. It's the solution from the first video.

$20 for 3 shells - https://www.budk.com/12-Gauge-Skynet-Drone-Defense--3-Pack-35975

Licensing and revocation of it only affect those who are licensed and somewhat willing to follow the rules to begin with. There are already signs and other PSA that specifically tell people not to fly drones in certain area. People do stupid stuff because they are stupid, a license won't change that.... although maybe a comprehension test might, lol. More enforcement and heavier fines are required, not new laws and rules that affects the majority of users that are just flying drones at their local park and playgrounds. If I want a drone to just record my son's soccer game at the local playground... I need to register and be licensed just because of a bunch of yahoos completely unrelated to me are flying drones at a restricted area? How much of tax payers money will be required to run such a program? How much do I have to fork out to get some sort of license?

Easier to just catch those who are obviously flying the drone in the area and to just blow the drone out of the air.

As for the shotgun rounds... I don't see how it's a "stupid idea".... the pellets are non-lethal at such a vast distance. The product you posted actually have some larger pieces that fly out when shot, thus even more dangerous than what I suggested. I believe there was a MythBusters episode where birdshot rounds were stopped by a nylon bag filled with pizza. Cheaper, farther range and probably safer... sounds like a better idea IMO.

As for catching people flying with a cellphone... be much harder to prove and you have to give tons of power to the authorities. CCTV may work if you actually have the video of the phone screen itself. It probably is easier to prove a murder as you can have stuff like opportunity, motive, etc. How are you going to prove some guy sitting on the bench is the one flying the drone and not just playing some racing game on his device? Short of having cameras literally everywhere pointing at every angle with the ability to zoom in close enough to verify and prove in a court of law that the image on the phone is actually of the drone real-time and not just some nature video. Any run of the mill judge will toss those cases out of court and any constitutional lawyer will make quick work out of any prosecutor.

Alflives · February 17, 2019

3 minutes ago, Lancaster said:

Licensing and revocation of it only affect those who are licensed and somewhat willing to follow the rules to begin with. There are already signs and other PSA that specifically tell people not to fly drones in certain area. People do stupid stuff because they are stupid, a license won't change that.... although maybe a comprehension test might, lol.    More enforcement and heavier fines are required, not new laws and rules that affects the majority of users that are just flying drones at their local park and playgrounds. If I want a drone to just record my son's soccer game at the local playground... I need to register and be licensed just because of a bunch of yahoos completely unrelated to me are flying drones at a restricted area? How much of tax payers money will be required to run such a program? How much do I have to fork out to get some sort of license?

Easier to just catch those who are obviously flying the drone in the area and to just blow the drone out of the air.

As for the shotgun rounds... I don't see how it's a "stupid idea".... the pellets are non-lethal at such a vast distance. The product you posted actually have some larger pieces that fly out when shot, thus even more dangerous than what I suggested. I believe there was a MythBusters episode where birdshot rounds were stopped by a nylon bag filled with pizza. Cheaper, farther range and probably safer... sounds like a better idea IMO.

As for catching people flying with a cellphone... be much harder to prove and you have to give tons of power to the authorities. CCTV may work if you actually have the video of the phone screen itself. It probably is easier to prove a murder as you can have stuff like opportunity, motive, etc. How are you going to prove some guy sitting on the bench is the one flying the drone and not just playing some racing game on his device? Short of having cameras literally everywhere pointing at every angle with the ability to zoom in close enough to verify and prove in a court of law that the image on the phone is actually of the drone real-time and not just some nature video. Any run of the mill judge will toss those cases out of court and any constitutional lawyer will make quick work out of any prosecutor.

Collect the drones, and shoot the owners? I bet the idiots flying drones near airports would stop quick. Wouldn’t flying a drone into a passenger plane be a terrorist act? I say shoot these guys on the spot.

aeromotacanucks · February 18, 2019

Ok people I want all of you imagining this situation...

You and your family saved a lot of money for that awesome vacation in Dubai and Abu Dhabi, you gonna go to that Ferrari park, the fancy building in Dubai and even a cruise over the Persian gulf...

You all took a flight in NY-JFK and are heading for a long 14 hour flight to your destination, the flight is long and exhaustive but it will worth it...

Dubai is straight ahead, it's night you see the famous buildings all illuminated, the pilot announces "prepare to land" and finally just more a few minutes to finally arrive there and start having fun...

Suddenly you listen a loud "bang" on the right engine, something collided with the airplane and some debris cover the window, seems it's not a bird, vultures in Dubai are rare...

The airplane is too low to abort the landing and fly again and the landing becomes a crash landing, the airplane stops at the runway and you and your family rush to leave the airplane

As you left you listen some Arab workers saying "drone drone drone!" And you see some small plastic pieces covering the engine and fuselage of the airplane...

It was not a bird it was an drone who was not allowed flying there but some dude thought it was fun to take some cool videos and photos but the airplane's engine sucked the drone causing a massive impact at 500km/h with a force impact of more than 5 ton...

You didn't die because the plane is really strong, the pilots are good, the airport is well equipped and because it's pretty much not your day to die...

Now tell me. Does this entire situation looks comfy to you people????

I don't think so...

Lancaster · February 18, 2019

2 hours ago, Alflives said:

Collect the drones, and shoot the owners? I bet the idiots flying drones near airports would stop quick. Wouldn’t flying a drone into a passenger plane be a terrorist act? I say shoot these guys on the spot.

They should make punishment very severe. This is like 100x potentially as dangerous as driving when intoxicated. Heavy fines plus potential jail time should be the starting point for punishment.

SabreFan1 · February 18, 2019

5 hours ago, Lancaster said:

Licensing and revocation of it only affect those who are licensed and somewhat willing to follow the rules to begin with. There are already signs and other PSA that specifically tell people not to fly drones in certain area. People do stupid stuff because they are stupid, a license won't change that.... although maybe a comprehension test might, lol.    More enforcement and heavier fines are required, not new laws and rules that affects the majority of users that are just flying drones at their local park and playgrounds. If I want a drone to just record my son's soccer game at the local playground... I need to register and be licensed just because of a bunch of yahoos completely unrelated to me are flying drones at a restricted area? How much of tax payers money will be required to run such a program? How much do I have to fork out to get some sort of license?

Easier to just catch those who are obviously flying the drone in the area and to just blow the drone out of the air.

As for the shotgun rounds... I don't see how it's a "stupid idea".... the pellets are non-lethal at such a vast distance. The product you posted actually have some larger pieces that fly out when shot, thus even more dangerous than what I suggested. I believe there was a MythBusters episode where birdshot rounds were stopped by a nylon bag filled with pizza. Cheaper, farther range and probably safer... sounds like a better idea IMO.

As for catching people flying with a cellphone... be much harder to prove and you have to give tons of power to the authorities. CCTV may work if you actually have the video of the phone screen itself. It probably is easier to prove a murder as you can have stuff like opportunity, motive, etc. How are you going to prove some guy sitting on the bench is the one flying the drone and not just playing some racing game on his device? Short of having cameras literally everywhere pointing at every angle with the ability to zoom in close enough to verify and prove in a court of law that the image on the phone is actually of the drone real-time and not just some nature video. Any run of the mill judge will toss those cases out of court and any constitutional lawyer will make quick work out of any prosecutor.

I'm not going to keep repeating myself to you.

1. As I said in my original post, there's no perfect solution, but with enforcement, ID and heavy fines are a very good step.

2. Birdshot on a runway = Damaged engines. Plus if it manages to crack a window, the plane goes out of service until it's replaced and tested. If it puts a tiny hole in a person on it's way back down, they're likely to sue and press criminal charges.

The only way you get away with shooting someone in the face is if you're a US Vice President in the early aughts.

Lancaster · February 18, 2019

4 hours ago, SabreFan1 said:

I'm not going to keep repeating myself to you.

1. As I said in my original post, there's no perfect solution, but with enforcement, ID and heavy fines are a very good step.

2. Birdshot on a runway = Damaged engines. Plus if it manages to crack a window, the plane goes out of service until it's replaced and tested. If it puts a tiny hole in a person on it's way back down, they're likely to sue and press criminal charges.

The only way you get away with shooting someone in the face is if you're a US Vice President in the early aughts.

I think you may be overestimating the stopping power of birdshots. When there is an unauthorized drone flying about, I would assume it's standard procedure to delay all landings and to keep planes on the runway. Birdshots from that high would do as much damage as hail, probably even less as there is less time/distance to reach velocity. Birdshots are designed to shoot birds.... I'm not talking about ammo that's used to hunt deer or bear or something.

I guess we can agree to disagree on the finer points on what's more effective in terms of prevention, but I think we can agree that whoever commits these actions should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

SabreFan1 · February 18, 2019

2 hours ago, Lancaster said:

I think you may be overestimating the stopping power of birdshots. When there is an unauthorized drone flying about, I would assume it's standard procedure to delay all landings and to keep planes on the runway. Birdshots from that high would do as much damage as hail, probably even less as there is less time/distance to reach velocity. Birdshots are designed to shoot birds.... I'm not talking about ammo that's used to hunt deer or bear or something.

I guess we can agree to disagree on the finer points on what's more effective in terms of prevention, but I think we can agree that whoever commits these actions should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

Our frmr. vice president, Dick Cheney, was shot in the face point blank with birdshot and lived just fine so I know it's not powerful. Enough small pieces of anything hard can hurt a jet engine. They're surprisingly fragile when crap gets into them. Even though the windows are fairly resistant, they can't have any cracks in them. Any falling metal can put a tiny crack in them that will in time expand with the temperature changes the outside of a plane goes through. Kinda like a car window in the winter time but slower.

aeromotacanucks · February 18, 2019

I'm seeing some sane and logic arguments here and all solutions should be available...

1) 95% of all drone operators are just fine, all they want is fly their drones way far away from airfields and mostly for domestic things like patrol a ranch/farm or film a wedding etc

That includes professional drone operators who actually follow the rules and are actually useful to the authorities

The problem is the other 5% who think they're actual pilots and can fly the same way as airplanes and Helicopters and do not consider the fact that if a drone crash they lose a drone however if a plane or helicopter crash people will die. THIS IS THE PROBLEM

2) tracking devices are good ideas, each drone should have an IP or something similar attached to the owner on a similar way it's done to a car or a gun

3) punishment should vary depending on the circumstances.

If you invaded a restricted area but it's not exactly an airport or airfield nor a high security facility (like a prison or military base) a very big fine is enough to scary the punk

Invaded a military facility, airport or any other high restricted airspace well lose the drone + big big fine and depending on the situation a time in jail

You caused an accident with your drone for example you invaded a restricted airspace and caused a plane to crash? Well death sentence to you

4) how hunt a drone is tricky because for each size you need a different solution

A gun can solve the problem with small drones but maybe not with bigger ones, maybe some sort of deployable net can also be used or simply a hawk can deal with some types of drones

It's a new technology but we cannot let these dangerous events happen all over or things will be EXTREMELY dangerous

aeromotacanucks · February 21, 2019

https://cnn.it/2E37UCC

Planning to go to Ireland? Well maybe you should reconsider...

Amazing how things like this are not happening in USA or Russia, maybe because authorities there are not as patient as in Europe...

aeromotacanucks · February 21, 2019

Drone sighting at Dublin Airport brings flights to temporary halt

By Kara Fox, CNN

Updated at 10:41 AM ET, Thu February 21, 2019

Play Video

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