Is it time to come to grips with reality and start thinking tank?

[TheRealistOptimist]

So here the Canucks are with 60 games played and 59 points, only 1 point out of the final playoff spot in the Western Conference Wildcard race. However now that most teams have caught up in games played, we are sitting in 12th out of 15 teams in the Western Conference and 25th out of 31 teams overall. Plus, to add injury to insult, we now have injuries to our top two Dmen (Edler and Tanev), two top 9 wingers (Baertschi and Virtanen) and our 3rd line center (Sutter). We have managed to stay competitive and play meaningful games to this point in the season, but isn't it time to start looking reality in it's face and realize were not making the playoffs this year? Acceptance of this by management and ownership would be a huge step in the right direction and could lead to some positive moves down the stretch, in particular at the Trade Deadline. 

Now the Trade Deadline is where it gets tricky. We were seemingly content on keeping Tanev, and re-signing Edler. Now even if management changes course and looks to move at least one of them, they are both injured (surprise, surprise) along with Brandon Sutter and therefore likely unmovable for the prices we would need if we were to move them and that doesn't even include the fact that 2 out of the 3 have full NTC's.

 

So if those players aren't available to trade, what assets does that leave us with to trade? 

 

Players available?
Granlund

Schaller

Goldobin
Gudbranson

Pouliot

Biega

 

That's a whole lot of not much. Each player has their warts and none of them are top notch proven players. Knowing that management has stated that they do not want to move any of our top prospects or this year's draft picks, it's going to be hard to get anything impressive in return. That means we as fans need to adjust our expectations of the Trade Deadline. 

However I believe management should be looking to move the following players for draft picks. 

Granlund and Pouliot are RFA's and I don't believe we will have room for them next season and they are eminently replaceable, Schaller meanwhile hasn't shown anything and hasn't received much of an opportunity this season. So for each of these players I would take any draft picks I could get, although I do believe Granlund could get you a 4th and Pouliot probably a 5th. 

Now I am a Goldy fan and would like to see him get more opportunity this season, but because of his lack of consistency and some key deficiencies, I think it's clear he is on thin ice with the coach. He is also an RFA, so they could be looking to trade him although he may be more of an offseason move, because I don't think any playoff teams are banging down the door for a player like him, at this moment.

Biega has been a good soldier but I don't even know if he'd get picked up for free on waivers, let alone get us a draft pick. 

That brings us to Gudbranson. I have defended him in the past, but I don't think you can argue he has struggled mightily this season. He has managed to stay healthy this season which is a positive, but he seems to be on the ice for every goal against (not a fact, it just seems that way). But we all know he is a big body and that some still think (rightly or wrongly) can be very useful in a playoff atmosphere, especially playing sheltered minutes. He is also a right shot defenseman. This leads me to believe that he is someone the Canucks management needs to seriously look at trading at the Deadline. I don't know what he would be worth in a trade but maybe you could get a mid round pick or two for him, potentially a conditional pick, that gets better the more he plays in the playoffs or the further the team goes. 

Anyways I think we should be looking to move out some bodies at the TDL for draft picks and give some of our prospects a little taste of the NHL down the stretch, especially for players like Dahlen and Briesbois and we should keep Gaudette and MacEwen around longer until they all go back down to Utica for the AHL playoff run.

 

I know there's a lot of split opinions between the fan base, in regards to whether we should want to see the Canucks make the playoffs or get a high draft pick. But we all knew, we were still a rebuilding team coming into this season and expected to finish near the bottom of the standings. We have been lucky that the rest of the Western Conference has played like crap up until this point in the season and that we have been able to play some meaningful games. But we need to realize we are not contenders and we still need some top end talent, which will come from high draft picks and as many lottery tickets (draft picks) as possible. Even though the Draft Lottery hasn't been kind to us the last few years, it doesn't dissuade me from wanting the best chance possible to get a player like J. Hughes or K. Kakko.

PS. I would love to see us be able to trade one of Tanev, Edler or Sutter and get a 1st or 2nd in return, I just don't see it happening at the Deadline. 

What do you think? Where is mind at, at this stage of the season?

[Silky mitts]

Three things imo are making some people get a little carried away this year imo.

1.)EP carrying the team 

2.)marky carrying the team 

3.)the west is utter trash this year

 

all it takes is one look at our d core and just imagine how badly it would

get mauled in the playoffs.

[canuktravella]

32 minutes ago, Silky mitts said:

Three things imo are making some people get a little carried away this year imo.

1.)EP carrying the team 

2.)marky carrying the team 

3.)the west is utter trash this year

 

all it takes is one look at our d core and just imagine how badly it would

get mauled in the playoffs.

  depends if edler is healthy by playoffs  i think if benning can pick up one somewhat offensive ufa dman at deadline  for granlund  do it 

[Angry Goose]

I want to see them win.  

 

At this point I think it is more important that development and improvement continue to be the focus.  Take a hard look at the roster and tweak it.  At least that's what I hope they do.  

 

Regardless of where they pick the Canucks will select a good player.   Im impressed with who they seem to key in on, so whatever the pick they seem to make good picks regardless.  

[xereau]

Push these young guys, give them a taste.

 

If they lose they lose.

 

Never tank on purpose, unless you want to accidentally create a cancerous loser culture that lingers around like the diseased stench it is /coughedmontoncoilers.

[TheRealistOptimist]

The organization won’t be tanking on purpose. I don’t think any of our players will stop playing hard and I want to see Petey, Boeser and Horvat keep putting up points. 

 

I also just want to see them give some young guys a chance in the last 15-20 games. If that means trading some players away and they end up losing the majority of games the rest of the way, I’m ok with that.

 

 

[Twilight Sparkle]

gather around, my children cause i have some things to say that's gonna make a lot of people mad today

 

tanking is such an overused, misunderstood term on this board within the last couple of years smh but i can see where some of us have been coming from for the past couple of years to use it, myself included (hello, tank aliens!) but it's just so cool to say to start any discussion! a team sucking by circumstance =/= hey let's just lose on purpose, because this team sucks by said circumstance, but then say lets play all these young guys in a tanking environment? because what? what does that accomplish exactly? we play younger guys? what helps their development playing the edmonton oilers formula?

 

i for one am glad that this team is kinda in that "middle of the pack" discussion because that mean's that this team is getting competitive again, and other teams actually have to put in some work to beat us, and we have development of young core guys getting attention league wide, that we didn't have since the rise of the Sedins. So if we sacrifice a higher draft pick for wins, then so be it. This team isn't ever getting top 3 (except landing pettersson was a steal, even seeing a bunch of people here freak out that we didn't get some other guy), at best, in this new era of the NHL making up rules as they go along, so we just have to live with the cards that we're dealt here

 

goldobin just doesn't have "it" thus is worth nothing and can go to the KHL for all i care. he's such a non factor

 

schaller is... a guy. on the roster. yep. he's a guy. an ahl caliber warm body to call up and there's nothing wrong with having a good hand

 

pouliot's an interesting case, because he shows signs of being a pretty dynamic puck mover-- if this coaching staff had any clue on how to take advantage of what this team actually has, but we'll never know. with the system this team has, he's ****ing brutal. he could be a pretty good hand, especially on an atrocious power play, but he's miscast

 

gudbranson, under the right system, can be a solid tough guy. he's the intimidation factor that this team doesn't want him to be, and you need that to win games, so under the current system (see pouliot)

 

biega is the definition of vanilla ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ he's a good hand

 

honestly this whole thread was just one giant boring advertisement to trade gudbranson, and there's been enough of that lately

[40Dangles]

I'm not a big fan of advanced stats but looking at Gudy's stats I have to say, he could be addition by subtraction if we can replace his toughness. Those stats are atrocious.

 

As for Poulliot, oddly his stats aren't even close to as bad as one would be lead to believe by reading these boards. My biggest concern with both of these players is the giveaway takeaway ratio and how that often leads to goals. For Guddy, this ratio is nasty in terms of how many goals he's costing us. He's an anchor that if the leafs are willing to take for toughness (given their concerns) we really need to consider it IMHO.

[Dungass]

IMO Benning's doing nothing at the TDL.  I don't blame him, it's not easy to make a good deal.  

 

As of this morning the Canucks are sitting in 7th position for the draft lottery, exactly the same place they were last year.  I don't see us dropping any further than that, as the other 6 teams below us are truly stinktabulous.

[EagleShield]

We're only in playoff contention because the west is as bad as it is this year. In the east, we're 10 points out and missing the playoffs is a done deal. I don't want this team to make the playoffs, I want us to win the cup. Squeaking into the last WC slot is not in this franchise's medium or long term interest. Yes it'd be great for Petey etc. to get the playoff experience, but there is a huge deficiency in our roster, especially on D, that still needs to be addressed through the draft.

 

As it stands, we hold the 7th highest odds in the lottery, a bad 10 days and we could have the second or third highest. I'd look at trading the higher pick for an established young RHD - e.g. Trouba if Winnipeg bite. Some smart moves in the off season could set us up nicely for years to come.

[FaninMex]

Edmonton is that way

[Fanuck]

I just assumed the tank was on when we put one-quarter of the team on injured reserve and called up a goalie with zero pro-experience.

[TheGuardian_]

4 hours ago, xereau said:

Push these young guys, give them a taste.

 

If they lose they lose.

 

Never tank on purpose, unless you want to accidentally create a cancerous loser culture that lingers around like the diseased stench it is /coughedmontoncoilers.

And you think trying their very best and losing is good for them?

 

If Benning does "what's best for the team" then it is not the player failure, it is his and players can blame him. Edmonton tried their very hardest year after year and never intentionally tanked and look at their problem, exactly what you just described.

 

These guys aren't stupid they know these teams, SanJose eased up on them twice, they play them and they get destroyed 4 straight, they couldn't beat Anahiem, barley beat LA both were the worst in the league at the time.

 

Half this team are AHLer's or worn out vets playing to stay in the league or for the next contract.

 

Heck, Edler said he would rather stay at home than play "meaningful" games. This guy is a mentor, a vet, a leader in the room and that is his attitude?

[smithers joe]

it is okay for the fans to think tank as long as the players don’t. the coach and gm could always sit petey and brock. that might make the tankers happy. 

[MeanSeanBean]

8 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

And you think trying their very best and losing is good for them?

 

If Benning does "what's best for the team" then it is not the player failure, it is his and players can blame him. Edmonton tried their very hardest year after year and never intentionally tanked and look at their problem, exactly what you just described.

 

These guys aren't stupid they know these teams, SanJose eased up on them twice, they play them and they get destroyed 4 straight, they couldn't beat Anahiem, barley beat LA both were the worst in the league at the time.

 

Half this team are AHLer's or worn out vets playing to stay in the league or for the next contract.

 

Heck, Edler said he would rather stay at home than play "meaningful" games. This guy is a mentor, a vet, a leader in the room and that is his attitude?

Yeah... What an incredibly loyal jerk that guy is.....

[Crabcakes]

The players need to play hard and try to win.  Green will see to this but really, there are a lot of character players who will assure this.

 

Results?  The main thing is that they're playing meaningful games because what is most important is that the players are tested.  This will bring nothing but good for their development win or lose.  If we see players giving up, we know that they won't be one of the players who help winning teams win and it would be time to move on.

 

 

[Coconuts]

I like seeing them win, it's good for the guys. That being said, we're fighting some pretty crucial injuries right now and if Marky gets hurt at all we're &^@#ed. I'll be disappointed if we slide down the standings but that's kind of what I'm expecting to happen. I've got a hunch that the central teams grab the wild card spots. I'd be thrilled if we made the playoffs as it'd be good for the young guys but I wouldn't be devastated with a higher pick either. I never expected us to make the playoffs this season to begin with.

 

That being said, I'm confident in our ability to grab good players wherever we draft.

[combover]

7 points out of last.......

4 points better than last season in a far weaker west. 

A d core that’s top 5 worst in the nhl

 

i don’t think they need to “tank” there just not a good team.

So miss the playoffs but be in the race not because they winning but because others keep losing. 

 

Hope benning doesnt do something stupid at the TDL. 

[48MPHSlapShot]

I'd personally rather win out, make the playoffs and win the cup, but that's just me.

[therodigy]

2 hours ago, 40Dangles said:

I'm not a big fan of advanced stats but looking at Gudy's stats I have to say, he could be addition by subtraction if we can replace his toughness. Those stats are atrocious.

 

As for Poulliot, oddly his stats aren't even close to as bad as one would be lead to believe by reading these boards. My biggest concern with both of these players is the giveaway takeaway ratio and how that often leads to goals. For Guddy, this ratio is nasty in terms of how many goals he's costing us. He's an anchor that if the leafs are willing to take for toughness (given their concerns) we really need to consider it IMHO.

That's the thing. Who can replace his toughness? MacEwan? Gadjovich? Sautner? Are we better off getting a Colton Orr type D who plays less than 10 minutes a night? Does signing Tyler Myers at $6-$7M x 5-6 years trump Guddy's remaining $4x2 years in the long term?

 

Yes, he's a statistical nightmare. He had that one 4 or 5 game point streak earlier in the year, and then disappeared. I won't even get into shot suppression, zone entries or corsi because they're not pretty. It's how Guddy plays in the playoffs (IF we make the playoffs) that will determine his remaining tenure in Vancouver. If he turns into a monster, then it makes keeping him around much more tolerable, even necessary. If more of the same, time to cut your losses. Obviously, easier said than done, but that's my thought process behind it.

 

Pouliot has been playing better lately, considering our D core is pretty much obliterated. The GVA/TKA numbers aren't THAT bad, but he definitely panics under pressure behind our own blue line and makes painful gaffs with the puck. If he has no future with the team (Which is safe to assume with Hughes, Juolevi, Sautner, and Brisebois around the corner) try to trade him out for a 4th or 5th. Wouldn't be surprised if he stays for the year and drifts into FA though. 

 

Hard to envision Guddy moving to Toronto unless we take back Zaitsev. He's a bigger anchor. Honestly, it's easier to imagine Guddy, as well as other players with term like Sutter and Schaller, being traded in the off-season. Yes, the 2019 picks would be nice, but realistically, we're not exactly in a place to acquire 1st and 2nd round picks this year so we might as well wait until draft day/Free agency.