[Trade] Canucks trade Erik Gudbranson to Penguins for Tanner Pearson

[SingleThorn]

3 hours ago, Darius said:

But wait.. the hfboards embassadors on CDC were telling us that guddy was the worst player in the nhl.  

Are the HF termites backing down at all ? Doubt it. Went there once a while back when CDC was down for a few days. Scary place. So much stupidity in one contained area. Only name I recognised from CDC was Canadian Rugby. He was like 'the voice of reason' over there. Here, I have him on ignore because of constant negativity !

[Screw]

21 hours ago, Tre Mac said:

I miss him

There might be a tire fire at your local dump you could get attached to.

[Screw]

16 hours ago, oldnews said:

Gudbranson has been plain outstanding thus far in Pitt.

 

2.9 on ice goals for per 60

1.0 goals against

= +1.9 per 60  and +5 overall, in hard, shutdown minutes.

20 hits in 7 games.

A leading penalty killer for them....

 

Don't like having let go of him, enjoy watching the guy killing it - and think it may wind up one of the odd moments of weakness for this management group - but it's a done deal and something the team needs to move on from (hopefully can shore up the blueline -and some toughness, in the summer).

At least it looks like they may be gaining some value in draft position....?

Also kind of odd that both McCann and Gud (a deal that I thought was decent enough for both sides) were both dealt at the deadline - I wouldn't have agreed to either of those moves (Pitt sure is sitting pretty after the deadline though).

I tend to believe the odd moments in question are Guddys recent elevated play.

 

[oldnews]

10 minutes ago, Screw said:

I tend to believe the odd moments in question are Guddys recent elevated play.

 

well blind belief is a pretty weak mechanism to rely on, so there's that.

[oldnews]

15 minutes ago, Screw said:

There might be a tire fire at your local dump you could get attached to.

good hockey talk...

 

smells like the return of  'Baumerman'

[oldnews]

15 hours ago, Canucks Curse said:

He’s been his best hockey ever

msybe it’s because he’s on a winning team where players are for the most part playing positions where they can succeed?

 

who is his D partner mostly?

he does well when he plays with an experienced puck move ex Campbell in Florida 

Def not the Gudbranson we saw with Willy D or Greener 

I wouldn't say that - it's comparable to what he did for the Panthers in the playoffs.

And Gud didn't simply play with a puck-mover in florida (Campbell) - he actually spent more time paired with Mitchell.

 

his partner is a 22 year old - Marcus Pettersson - who's a solid enough young two-way D - but clearly not what you expected.

[Provost]

18 minutes ago, oldnews said:

well blind belief is a pretty weak mechanism to rely on, so there's that.

... and yet when Gudbranson was here, and those exact statistics you are happy to quote now, showed him to be just God awful... your position was that those stats were meaningless and had blind belief that he was a great defenceman anyways because of “intangibles”.

 

i hope he continues to do well, but it is far more likely that he reverts to being The Gudbranson we saw.  The sample is just too small right now to suggest otherwise.

 

I know you like to dig up old posts of mine, come find this by the end of next season and we can see if he is still playing 23 minutes a game or has dropped down the lineup.

Edited March 14, 2019 by Provost

[oldnews]

19 minutes ago, Provost said:

... and yet when Gudbranson was here, and those exact statistics you are happy to quote now, showed him to be just God awful...

blah blah.

 

its a cool story - but you're welcome to quote some actual stats/posts , if you're capable of engaging in even the most elementary of conversations or 'analyticz'

 

My 'position' was never that those statistics are meaningless - my position is always that those statistics need to be kept in context - that cherry-picking one metric doesn't tell you much - and that even when integrated, 'advanced-stats' still have their limits.

 

No one said Gudbranson was a 'great defenseman' here - again the usual pathetic straw that you need to resort to when you can't engage in context or actual conversations.   Quote a post where I refer to Gudbranson as you have and I'll take a time-out from CDC for a week. 

 

Be my guest - fill your boots

Try some context or substance.  Got any?

Edited March 14, 2019 by oldnews

[Provost]

58 minutes ago, oldnews said:

 

My 'position' was never that those statistics are meaningless - my position is always that those statistics need to be kept in context - that cherry-picking one metric doesn't tell you much - and that even when integrated, 'advanced-stats' still have their limits.

 

You LITERALLY just cherry picked a statistic from a tiny sample size to say that it was a moment of weakness for the Canucks management and proceeded to get into an argument with yet another poster based on your cherry picked statistic.

You entirely ignored the context of the fact he went to a team filled with multiple Stanley Cup winners who were (as usual for this time of year) turning on the jets to be ready for the playoffs.  Also, that the Penguins are playing him in those spots because of a slew of injuries to their D, giving them few options. 

Edited March 14, 2019 by Provost

[oldnews]

59 minutes ago, Provost said:

 

that's what I thought. 

nothing but prattle and protest.

No stats and no quotes lol.   The usual, and predicable waste of time - when I'd given you the opportunity to make me sign off for a week if you could simply substantiate your absurd strawman with a quotations.

And derp - I have entirely made the point numerous times - including in this thread - that playing in the context of a Stanley Cup roster makes a big difference (honestly, always a waste of time with you - and a series of whiffs and falsehoods because you notoriously ride the surface).

 

As for my alleged "cherry pick"  - I gave Gudransons corsi (shot metrics), his zone starts (deployment), his goal metrics, his special teams role, his D partner, and his ice time all together - call that a 'cherry pick' if you want, but you clearly don't understand the concept.  A 'cherry pick' is dwelling on a singular - as people like yourself - who don't understand 'analytics' do when you dwell on a single metric like corsi out of context.  Hey, continue to fill your boots with that stuff - if you're content to learn and teach yourself nothing.

 

 

I think you folks from the Gudbranson sandbag crew should take a time out - and stop contributing delicious irony to this thread with your bizarre fixations - returning here to protest his positive performances in Pittsburgh......but, but they don't confirm our biases or commitment to the idea that he's among the worst, throwback defenseman in the NHL

Yawn.

Give it a rest.

 

 

Edited March 14, 2019 by oldnews

[kanucks25]

4 hours ago, SingleThorn said:

Are the HF termites backing down at all ? Doubt it. Went there once a while back when CDC was down for a few days. Scary place. So much stupidity in one contained area. Only name I recognised from CDC was Canadian Rugby. He was like 'the voice of reason' over there. Here, I have him on ignore because of constant negativity !

You can make this same post on HF, just swap every "HF" and "CDC".

 

Both forums have their flaws, the largest might be one they share: thinking the other place is stupid and beneath them.

[Duodenum]

So finally got around to watching a Penguins game yesterday, Gudbranson actually looked pretty decent. He and Sheary had a mini-battle going on all game. 

All the best to him, he wasn't a fit with the Canucks and had lost all of his confidence with the puck. Hope he can turn it around and has a decent career elsewhere.

 

Also props to Sergei Gonchar. He's been pretty instrumental in helping Pittsburgh's collection of defensive throwaways come together as a unit since 2015. Gudbranson credits him in helping him use his reach better in the little time they've been together. I know I'd rather have Sergei Gonchar coaching the defense over Nolan Baumgartner. Their breakout system is perfect for a guy like Gudbranson as well. Keeping the passes short instead of the long bombs the Canucks like to do. Slowly creeping away from contention for the worst dman in the league race if the reports out of PIttsburgh are true. His statistics are looking pretty mint right now. 

Edited March 15, 2019 by Duodenum

[SingleThorn]

10 minutes ago, Duodenum said:

So finally got around to watching a Penguins game yesterday, Gudbranson actually looked pretty decent. He and Sheary had a mini-battle going on all game. 

All the best to him, he wasn't a fit with the Canucks and had lost all of his confidence with the puck. Hope he can turn it around and has a decent career elsewhere.

 

Also props to Sergei Gonchar. He's been pretty instrumental in helping Pittsburgh's collection of defensive throwaways come together as a unit since 2015. Gudbranson credits him in helping him use his reach better in the little time they've been together. I know I'd rather have Sergei Gonchar coaching the defense over Nolan Baumgartner. Their breakout system is perfect for a guy like Gudbranson as well. Keeping the passes short instead of the long bombs the Canucks like to do. Slowly creeping away from contention for the worst dman in the league race if the reports out of PIttsburgh are true. His statistics are looking pretty mint right now. 

All those fancy analytics. Small change in scenery and tah-dah the analytics have gone from worst in the league to +/- middle of the pack. The fact that it's the same player, no change in health, same ability, same...same....same but sends the prognosis into the garbage bin should be a huge warning sign for the analytic crowd. But.....it won't. Watch the reasons ( aka excuses, aka lies ) start to flow !

[Duodenum]

46 minutes ago, SingleThorn said:

All those fancy analytics. Small change in scenery and tah-dah the analytics have gone from worst in the league to +/- middle of the pack. The fact that it's the same player, no change in health, same ability, same...same....same but sends the prognosis into the garbage bin should be a huge warning sign for the analytic crowd. But.....it won't. Watch the reasons ( aka excuses, aka lies ) start to flow !

Well the analytics weren't lying. It just helped to show that Gudbranson was a terrible fit in Vancouver bleeding goals against. He's paired with a smart, young puck mover in Pettersson right now and their style fits him better (and they have a better d coach). He was even jumping up into the play and carrying the puck into the offensive zone, something he never, ever did here. Still, a small sample size with a new team that is on a hot streak is just that. Won't really see what he's really like for Pittsburgh until next year probably. It takes "analytics" about a 40+ game sample size to normalize. 

Edited March 15, 2019 by Duodenum

[JM_]

1 minute ago, Duodenum said:

Well the analytics weren't lying. It just helped to show that Gudbranson was a terrible fit in Vancouver bleeding goals against. He's paired with a smart, young puck mover in Pettersson right now and their style fits him better (and they have a better d coach). He was even jumping up into the play and carrying the puck into the offensive zone, something he never, ever did here. Still, a small sample size with a new team that is on a hot streak is just that. Won't really see what he's really like for Pittsburgh until next year probably. It takes "analytics" about a 40+ game sample size to normalize. 

is it lying if its cherry picked?  every players performance is contextual, probably more so in hockey than any of the major sports. 

 

If we had traded for Pettersson and he was paired with Guddy here, would Guddy still suck? 

 

We're going to need a "Guddy" at some point in the next few seasons, maybe we have that in Woo if we're lucky. 

[SingleThorn]

1 minute ago, Duodenum said:

Well the analytics weren't lying. It just helped to show that Gudbranson was a terrible fit in Vancouver bleeding goals against. He's paired with a smart, young puck mover in Pettersson right now and their style fits him better (and they have a better d coach). Still, a small sample size with a new team that is on a hot streak is just that. Won't really see what he's really like for Pittsburgh until next year probably. 

Well, that's not what the analytics crowd was saying. They were saying that EG was the worst d-man in the league. 'Fit' wasn't in the narrative. You're moving the goal posts !

[MoneypuckOverlord]

In my opinion I think he purposely played bad so he can get traded.  I’m glad he’s doing well in Pittsburgh, also glad we got rid of him. He was truly the worst Canuck to play for us in the last 20

years.

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, SingleThorn said:

Well, that's not what the analytics crowd was saying. They were saying that EG was the worst d-man in the league. 'Fit' wasn't in the narrative. You're moving the goal posts !

[mll]

Gudbranson behind the Athletic's paywall on how the Penguins are having him use his reach and wingspan and how it's helping him.  

 

“[...] I wasn’t really doing it as much in Vancouver. But coming here and working with (assistant coaches) Sergei Gonchar and Jacques Martin, they’re huge on stick positioning. They’ve been on me every single day to use my stick to my advantage and my reach to my advantage. So far, it’s been helping me out.”

 

When the Penguins acquired Gudbranson from the Canucks just prior to the trade deadline last month, one of the common critiques of his play was his speed or lack thereof. One of the things the Penguins have stressed to him is how to use his lengthy stick in order to throw off the timing of opponents with faster feet.

 

“The best way I’ve had it put to me is if it looks like those guys have a bunch of speed, if you put a stick up against them really quickly, where they don’t expect it, they hesitate for a second,” Gudbranson said. “That’s not necessarily when you’ve got them but you make them slow down for that split second and in turn, maybe get a better gap and create a turnover.”

 

[JM_]

9 minutes ago, mll said:

Gudbranson behind the Athletic's paywall on how the Penguins are having him use his reach and wingspan and how it's helping him.  

 

“[...] I wasn’t really doing it as much in Vancouver. But coming here and working with (assistant coaches) Sergei Gonchar and Jacques Martin, they’re huge on stick positioning. They’ve been on me every single day to use my stick to my advantage and my reach to my advantage. So far, it’s been helping me out.”

 

When the Penguins acquired Gudbranson from the Canucks just prior to the trade deadline last month, one of the common critiques of his play was his speed or lack thereof. One of the things the Penguins have stressed to him is how to use his lengthy stick in order to throw off the timing of opponents with faster feet.

 

“The best way I’ve had it put to me is if it looks like those guys have a bunch of speed, if you put a stick up against them really quickly, where they don’t expect it, they hesitate for a second,” Gudbranson said. “That’s not necessarily when you’ve got them but you make them slow down for that split second and in turn, maybe get a better gap and create a turnover.”

 

 take notes Baumer